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Crazy Storage Question

Blue Fox said:
Thing is, look at any major manufacturer and they use more proprietary parts than Supermicro (Dell, HP, etc) in their servers.
Click to expand...

I agree. It is only a case of "who is more proprietary?".

That is one of the first things that I noticed regarding LSI based raid cards vs the PMC based HP p411. While LSI is proprietary, they are more open. They publish tools that can be used on most cards that contain their chips, and many lsi based cards can be cross flashed.
LSI lets you reconfigure an hba port as a target or initiator, etc. But the HP card or driver, hides, disables, or does not provide configuration for many of the features already built into the chip, and pmc does not directly provide end user tools.

While I got better base performance, I really miss being able to change things to suit my needs.
 
simplesam said:
Hmm, a doctor who is lazy, gets frustrated, and wants to show off...

He would not be happy with the hurricane type sound coming from any of the cases listed here. He would need to talk pretty loud, while showing it to his friends. His wife probably wouldn't be too impressed with it either.

So expensive is ok, but you probably want it to be small and quiet. Like a stereo component. It's furniture.

The supermicro 2.5 x24 chassis is only 2u. One of them comes with two sas expanders (for redundancy), around $1,300. Get that case + no motherboard. Order and additional backplane and fit it in the case somewhere. Break off the spare expander and attach it to the other backplane. Remove the fans. Maybe add a larger/slower/quiet fan or two, if needed. Jumper two wires on the atx cable, so that it is "always on" if it has power. Maybe change to a quiet/low-power power supply, or just replace the ps fans.

Buy 4x 256gb ssd drives. You are only doing reads, so even the worst mlc ssd's are ok. Buy more SSD's as needed, taking advantage of price drop + rising capacity over the time to fill the disks. Dr's don't have much spare time anyway. Being able to store 150 - 200 movies would be a good start.

There you have a fast, nearly silent, 2u storage array, that can handle 48 disks (and might have room for more). If the SSD's are bought over time, it could have a capacity of ??.

As SSD capacity rises and you replace the older SSDs for him, you could do him a favor and "get rid of" the old SSDs for him. I'm thinking: "Oh these? Worthless. I guess you could use them as paper weights, if you want.".

Total start cost with new case and spare backplane, new 4x 256gb ssd, cables and sas hba off ebay: 4k - 5k. Total cost when filled ???, but probably less than you think.

Selling points: Silence. Durability of ssd vs hd in this application. The SSDs will pay for themselves in power savings, over the next 10 - 60 years.
Click to expand...

This is just the server. It'll go in the basement next to the HVAC and can compete for the noisiest appliance award. We already have an HTPC ready for the entertainment center and it has absolutely zero moving parts (no fans, ssd drive, no optical) and thus can't be more silent.
 
Go with an Adaptec or LSI SAS card and use a SAS expander.
You can get that Chembro case and do 48 drives plus two for your OS. Additionally you could go for the NORCO and do either SAS or individual stand alone servers in a rack. You are looking at about ~$1500 - $2000 for the NORCO setup - you could throw in SAS type expanders and lower it after that but you are looking at a rather shoehorned solution. I would recomend just getting a maxed out NORCO.

On the high end, $2000 for the case, card, and other guts and then $210*20 for the 2TB drives. Yield ~33TB of usable space in Raid 6 (Actual TBs not TiBs). After shipping you are looking at about $6500. Not too shabby.

Let me however caution you against doing raid 5 on a super large raid array. I wrote a program to do the math and lets just say that RAID 5 isn't as robust as you think it is.

I wrote a program to simulate different RAID array configurations. If you want to know about how long you can expect your raid array to last - check this out.


If you are doing file server - not an enterprise database server, go RAID 6!
 
ibdoomed2 said:
This is just the server. It'll go in the basement next to the HVAC and can compete for the noisiest appliance award. We already have an HTPC ready for the entertainment center and it has absolutely zero moving parts (no fans, ssd drive, no optical) and thus can't be more silent.
Click to expand...

I thought the noisiest appliance was the wife..... :D
 
KennyG said:
On the high end, $2000 for the case, card, and other guts and then $210*20 for the 2TB drives. Yield ~33TB of usable space in Raid 6 (Actual TBs not TiBs). After shipping you are looking at about $6500. Not too shabby.
Click to expand...

Man, I want some of what you're smoking. Seriously. That is some good shit you are on.
$2k? Uh. No. That Chenbro is $3500+ period. What, you think they just give away something with 48 hot swap bays? I can't touch anything over 24 for under $3k from anyone, even when I call in favors.

I wrote a program to simulate different RAID array configurations. If you want to know about how long you can expect your raid array to last - check this out.
If you are doing file server - not an enterprise database server, go RAID 6!
Click to expand...

Sigh. One, you don't know enough about RAID to write any sort of simulator whatsoever if you think people put 24 disks into a RAID5. Two, there is no such thing as a valid and legitimate RAID simulator, nor will there ever be. Your numbers are pure fabrication and fantasy. Controller simulations, sure. But you can't simulate RAID. The end. I won't waste everyone's time on your arguments; the fact is that there are too many variables and the one simulator on the market is controller and drive specific and is owned by IBM. I know this because I've gotten to use it.
 
This meeting we have every week, and its long so its pretty standard and acceptable for people to be "Checking emails" on their blackberries.

Well I didnt really have anything to do with the current topic and was getting sleepy so I "Checked Emails"
 
Okay, so I mentioned I didn't trust the numbers I tossed out before. Well, duh, they're way off - that was a guesstimate based on the nearline large-set caching model, which is an overpowered monstrosity of a box. I should know better than to guesstimate from a dual hex core large memory system to a single quad core low memory system.

So, I ran the numbers with current data and a more accurate configuration.

Configuration:
  • 1x Intel Xeon 5520
  • 6GB DDR3-1333 (3x2GB)
  • Supermicro X8DTH-6F
  • Areca 1680i-24-2G with BBU
  • 24x Samsung F1 1TB
  • 2x Hitachi 300GB 15K SAS (OS RAID1, Landing)
  • Hauppage WinTV HVR-2250 Dual Tuner (PCI-Express 1x)
  • Chenbro RM91250 w/Ears w/o Rail Kit 1620W RPS Option
More Accurate Price: $10,000 not including freight.

If we switch out the 1TB F1's for 1.5TB F2EG's it's closer to $9,500 - but unsupported, so don't ask for that. (The F2EG's are not on the Areca compatible list yet, so I won't install 'em. Even if they do work, that leaves you without support.)
Estimating for 2TB (there are no supported 2TB drives as of this writing) the pricetag goes up to around $11,000-12,000.

That configuration has some restrictions; specifically, it's RAID5 period. People around here have a very bad habit of thinking you can run RAID without hotspares. NO. HOTSPARES ARE REQUIRED. That configuration in 1TB gives you 4x 4+1 RAID5 and 4 hotspares. It's more hotspares than I like, but I can't get 3 hotspares, so you get one per array. (RAID5 2+1 is an invalid configuration. Boundaries make it too miserably slow and failure prone to use.) RAID6 is not an option because it needs to be 4+2 or 6+2, meaning you end up with an entire array of hotspares or you end up with no hotspares at all. Because performance is not a critical feature, low-performance RAID3 may be an option using 3 7 disk arrays and 3 hotspares. It's just not recommended.

So your disk in that configuration is approximately 14.8TB usable. Expanding to 48 disk takes you to 29.6TB usable in RAID5 at ~450MB/s sequential read per array. (The performance is incidental, really.) Of course, roughly double both for 2TB disks when support is available. (RAID3 bumps capacity to 16.7TB and 33.4TB usable.)

EDIT: Most important numbers for estimating is the disk. Each 24 disk pack plus controller w/BBU is approximately $4,500 at 1TB. For an external 24 disk pack with controller, add $6,600 (including enclosure.)
 
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AreEss said:
Man, I want some of what you're smoking. Seriously. That is some good shit you are on.
$2k? Uh. No. That Chenbro is $3500+ period. What, you think they just give away something with 48 hot swap bays? I can't touch anything over 24 for under $3k from anyone, even when I call in favors.



Sigh. One, you don't know enough about RAID to write any sort of simulator whatsoever if you think people put 24 disks into a RAID5. Two, there is no such thing as a valid and legitimate RAID simulator, nor will there ever be. Your numbers are pure fabrication and fantasy. Controller simulations, sure. But you can't simulate RAID. The end. I won't waste everyone's time on your arguments; the fact is that there are too many variables and the one simulator on the market is controller and drive specific and is owned by IBM. I know this because I've gotten to use it.
Click to expand...

First you suck at reading comprehension. I wasn't saying get the Chenbro - notice how I priced 20 drives... perhpas it's because the $350 Norco holds 20 drives.

Statistically you can model anything. You don't know who I am or what I do. I'm not going to get in an e-peen measuring contest but you seem to be the one throwing out random numbers that don't have any basis in reality. The one thing you can't control for is drive failure. That's what you can simulate. Drives failure can be modeled on mathmatical equations. I'm not virtually constructing raid arrays like virtual machines - I'm doing math computations with research validated data (like the Google hard disk paper and others.)

The thought that you need to spend $24,000 on 40TB of home file server is laughable. An incredibly robust solution could be had for 1/3rd that price.
 
KennyG said:
First you suck at reading comprehension. I wasn't saying get the Chenbro - notice how I priced 20 drives... perhpas it's because the $350 Norco holds 20 drives.
Click to expand...

Ah, yeah. I did miss that. My bad there. Don't like the Norco. 20 drives doesn't give you a valid RAID configuration. Sigh.

Statistically you can model anything. You don't know who I am or what I do. I'm not going to get in an e-peen measuring contest but you seem to be the one throwing out random numbers that don't have any basis in reality. The one thing you can't control for is drive failure. That's what you can simulate. Drives failure can be modeled on mathmatical equations. I'm not virtually constructing raid arrays like virtual machines - I'm doing math computations with research validated data (like the Google hard disk paper and others.)
Click to expand...

Statistically, sure. Will it be right? Nope. Lies, damn lies, and statistics for a reason. I honestly don't care who anyone here is - it's the Internet. Hi. By the way, the numbers I throw out? They come from actual testing, as in, I've worked on the drives and controllers I mention. A lot, in most cases. See, I don't try to take random research from people who aren't actual experts in it and slap it together to try and make sense. I actually test things, extensively, myself. I also regularly converse with people who's job is to know this stuff at least as well as I do, and frequently better.
You cannot estimate RAID without knowing the exacts of the controller, the array disks down to the most minute details about seek versus distance, the interface specifics down to acceptable wait limits, and the exacts of the I/O operations including read/write balance, write sizes, read sizes, and level of parallelism by the host and/or application. Without all that data at the minimum, any numbers you throw out are fantasy.

The thought that you need to spend $24,000 on 40TB of home file server is laughable. An incredibly robust solution could be had for 1/3rd that price.
Click to expand...

Read the post above. My estimate was bad out of the gate, which I suspected. The correct numbers are above.
 
Okay, so some more data dump here. Numbers for RAID capacities after running them through the capacity tools.

RAID5
RAID5 is the best for general purpose tasks including fileservers, most applications, and databases. Good capacity with good performance.
4+1 - 3468GB
8+1 - 6935GB
12x1T Pack - 6936GB Usable - 2x4+1 + 2 Hotspare
24x1T Pack - 13872GB Usable - 4x4+1 + 4 Hotspare

RAID6
RAID6 is RAID5, just with another parity disk. RAID6 is more resilient than RAID5 in some situations, but only offers similar performance.
4+2 - 3468GB
8+2 - 6935GB
12x1T Pack - 3468GB Usable - 1x4+2 + 6 Hotspare
24x1T Pack - 13870GB Usable - 2x8+2 + 4 Hotspare

RAID3 - May actually be best on all sides.
RAID3 offers phenomenal read speeds in all modes, but writes cannot exceed the speed of the parity disk. RAID3 is poor for high IOPS.
4+P - 3468GB
6+P - 5202GB
12x1T Pack - 6936GB Usable - 2x4+P + 2 Hotspare
24x1T Pack - 15606GB Usable - 3x6+P + 3 Hotspare

Our primary concern is capacity and read operations, so RAID3 is actually a very good selection here. It gives us the best capacity for the disk count (while retaining reasonable hotspares,) read speeds are insane, and the infrequent writes should not cause a significant problem.
 
AreEss said:
Okay, so some more data dump here. Numbers for RAID capacities after running them through the capacity tools.

RAID5
RAID5 is the best for general purpose tasks including fileservers, most applications, and databases. Good capacity with good performance.
4+1 - 3468GB
8+1 - 6935GB
12x1T Pack - 6936GB Usable - 2x4+1 + 2 Hotspare
24x1T Pack - 13872GB Usable - 4x4+1 + 4 Hotspare

RAID6
RAID6 is RAID5, just with another parity disk. RAID6 is more resilient than RAID5 in some situations, but only offers similar performance.
4+2 - 3468GB
8+2 - 6935GB
12x1T Pack - 3468GB Usable - 1x4+2 + 6 Hotspare
24x1T Pack - 13870GB Usable - 2x8+2 + 4 Hotspare

RAID3 - May actually be best on all sides.
RAID3 offers phenomenal read speeds in all modes, but writes cannot exceed the speed of the parity disk. RAID3 is poor for high IOPS.
4+P - 3468GB
6+P - 5202GB
12x1T Pack - 6936GB Usable - 2x4+P + 2 Hotspare
24x1T Pack - 15606GB Usable - 3x6+P + 3 Hotspare

Our primary concern is capacity and read operations, so RAID3 is actually a very good selection here. It gives us the best capacity for the disk count (while retaining reasonable hotspares,) read speeds are insane, and the infrequent writes should not cause a significant problem.
Click to expand...

I'm not near the expert you are but I do deal with hundreds of drives in dozens of servers on a daily basis and the samsungs have the highest failure rate _here_ so I can't put my trust in them. It'll have to be WD's preferably, since the seagates have had firmware issues lately, but I could do seagates if needed. We're not ordering tomorrow so hopefully areca is working on certifying the 2tb drives.
 
ibdoomed2 said:
I'm not near the expert you are but I do deal with hundreds of drives in dozens of servers on a daily basis and the samsungs have the highest failure rate _here_ so I can't put my trust in them. It'll have to be WD's preferably, since the seagates have had firmware issues lately, but I could do seagates if needed. We're not ordering tomorrow so hopefully areca is working on certifying the 2tb drives.
Click to expand...

I refuse to sell WDC due to a long history of very poor service and extremely poor quality, along with customer and reseller hostile policies for dealing with defective parts. Seagate is on my permanent blacklist due to their refusal to respond to or appropriately resolve numerous issues throughout the 7200.11 line.
Your choices are Samsung F1 or Hitachi E7K1000. Between the two? I'm not picky. They're both excellent. The failure rate on the Samsungs is low; if they're failing, you've got something else wrong. VERY wrong. (I see this A LOT.) The Samsungs are preferred because of the 7 year warranty.
 
Simple question for the OP, who is going to be doing the ripping of all these movies?

You? (Do you have that much free time and will you get paid for it?)

The busy doctor out on the golf course?

This fanciful architectural discussion is very entertaining (and I am quite entertained reading some of these posts, especially the "I don't care who you are because you're on the Internet but you had better listen to me because I'm the only one here who knows what I'm talking about" ones) but most large personal media storage projects come to a halt the moment someone realizes how much dead time is involved in the ripping of more than a hundred or so titles.

Make sure you have quantified this effort, designed around it, and confirmed who will be undertaking it and over what period of time, before you spend a penny.
 
sphinx99 said:
Simple question for the OP, who is going to be doing the ripping of all these movies?
Click to expand...

Or, he dumps 100 DVDs at a time into something like the Vaio changer I mentioned previously, or a smaller DISC NSM jukebox, and lets it do it's thing. I'm operating under the presumption of at least two 5 disc changers minimum, or a 5 drive external tower. (I'm still using quadruple Pioneer DRM-624X's for audio ripping.)
 
AreEss said:
I refuse to sell WDC due to a long history of very poor service and extremely poor quality, along with customer and reseller hostile policies for dealing with defective parts. Seagate is on my permanent blacklist due to their refusal to respond to or appropriately resolve numerous issues throughout the 7200.11 line.
Your choices are Samsung F1 or Hitachi E7K1000. Between the two? I'm not picky. They're both excellent. The failure rate on the Samsungs is low; if they're failing, you've got something else wrong. VERY wrong. (I see this A LOT.) The Samsungs are preferred because of the 7 year warranty.
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We all have personal opinions. Since I've never used support for a hard drive, that's not an issue. Warranty isn't either as an RMA'd drive is likely refurbed and not worth the risk. When one goes bad we simply destroy it, unless it's within 30 days and hasn't had data on it.

Off hand, in arrays of mixed WD's, seagates, and samsungs, what do the samsungs require differently than the others that would cause more failures? Stripe size? Controller? I'd really like to find out so we could fix the root of the issue.

As for ripping, since the process is automated (put the disk in and when it's done it ejects), various mature family members will swap them as they can. It'll take a couple months but this isn't something that's time critical.
 
ibdoomed2 said:
We all have personal opinions. Since I've never used support for a hard drive, that's not an issue. Warranty isn't either as an RMA'd drive is likely refurbed and not worth the risk. When one goes bad we simply destroy it, unless it's within 30 days and hasn't had data on it.
Click to expand...

Samsung will back a "refurb" through RMA for the duration of the original warranty, as I recall. At this point, they're the only manufacturer who doesn't nuke your warranty from orbit on SATA drives.
This is also why I refuse to sell WDC: refurb WDC drives are warranted for 30 days, and that's it. Within 30 days, you must have their deliberately misleading "diagnostic" throw a specific code, even if the drive is chattering like mad. No code, they'll say it's just fine, unless it doesn't spin at all, right up to day 29. (They also used to have a requirement that you had to have the drive to their door and checked in within that 30 days.)

Off hand, in arrays of mixed WD's, seagates, and samsungs, what do the samsungs require differently than the others that would cause more failures? Stripe size? Controller? I'd really like to find out so we could fix the root of the issue.
Click to expand...

I'd need to know more about the exact nature of the failures you're seeing, as well as the details on the entire system. Send me a PM and we can discuss it there instead of clogging things up worse here. ;) Long short, the Samsung's are far more tolerant in general, but certain things DO set them off. These things SHOULD set off other drives, but the manufacturers use lying firmware and bad hacks to fake around it.

As for ripping, since the process is automated (put the disk in and when it's done it ejects), various mature family members will swap them as they can. It'll take a couple months but this isn't something that's time critical.
Click to expand...

Either a couple external drives or a multi-drive box wouldn't cost too much more; just a bracket for SATA connection and a blind SATA box, or some USB or 1394 enclosures. Which I'd recommend would depend on about how many movies he's planning to buy at a time in the future. Regardless, it's gonna require at least one external enclosure with a standard 5.25" SATA Blu-Ray in eSATA or 1394 preferably - I don't know of any slimline Blu-Ray drives easily available at the moment, and the Chenbro only has a slimline.
 
AreEss said:
Samsung will back a "refurb" through RMA for the duration of the original warranty, as I recall. At this point, they're the only manufacturer who doesn't nuke your warranty from orbit on SATA drives.
This is also why I refuse to sell WDC: refurb WDC drives are warranted for 30 days, and that's it. Within 30 days, you must have their deliberately misleading "diagnostic" throw a specific code, even if the drive is chattering like mad. No code, they'll say it's just fine, unless it doesn't spin at all, right up to day 29. (They also used to have a requirement that you had to have the drive to their door and checked in within that 30 days.)
Click to expand...

Backing the warranty is completely different than trusting the drive.

AreEss said:
I'd need to know more about the exact nature of the failures you're seeing, as well as the details on the entire system. Send me a PM and we can discuss it there instead of clogging things up worse here. ;) Long short, the Samsung's are far more tolerant in general, but certain things DO set them off. These things SHOULD set off other drives, but the manufacturers use lying firmware and bad hacks to fake around it.
Click to expand...

It's mostly error 29 if I remember correctly, or bios simply can't see the drive. It's all irrelevant though, do to the nature of our business hard drive platters cannot leave the building in any other form than liquid metal. So unless they would accept the removed cover of the drive as a return, there's not going to be any (someone did that but I forget who). The cost of rogue data could be far far greater than even 10,000 hard drives.

AreEss said:
Either a couple external drives or a multi-drive box wouldn't cost too much more; just a bracket for SATA connection and a blind SATA box, or some USB or 1394 enclosures. Which I'd recommend would depend on about how many movies he's planning to buy at a time in the future. Regardless, it's gonna require at least one external enclosure with a standard 5.25" SATA Blu-Ray in eSATA or 1394 preferably - I don't know of any slimline Blu-Ray drives easily available at the moment, and the Chenbro only has a slimline.
Click to expand...

I have a few of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118027 and they are a little slow but they work. I'm not sure if the system would auto-rip multiple drives at once, I'll check on that.
 
AreEss said:
Samsung will back a "refurb" through RMA for the duration of the original warranty, as I recall. At this point, they're the only manufacturer who doesn't nuke your warranty from orbit on SATA drives.
This is also why I refuse to sell WDC: refurb WDC drives are warranted for 30 days, and that's it. Within 30 days, you must have their deliberately misleading "diagnostic" throw a specific code, even if the drive is chattering like mad. No code, they'll say it's just fine, unless it doesn't spin at all, right up to day 29. (They also used to have a requirement that you had to have the drive to their door and checked in within that 30 days.)
Click to expand...

That has changed.

I had some WD drives that had bad blocks after a few months, and I RMA'd them.
About a year and a half later(three months ago) I Fooked up and killed two drives.
Looked up the serials and they had transferred my warranty to the refurbs...sent them in and same deal.
 
Aren't these drives still for the ripping of DVDs? Sounds like were off topic and talking about either HIPAA, Financial, or more sensitive data now. If you have to return your nuked dvd hd's ... shouldn't be any liquid metal requirement... unless the doctors server will be living in an area with EMSEC requirements.
 
Well it cant be HIPPA because by having that sort of data taken home with you on a personal computer would be a compliance violation:)
 
ibdoomed2 said:
It's mostly error 29 if I remember correctly, or bios simply can't see the drive. It's all irrelevant though, do to the nature of our business hard drive platters cannot leave the building in any other form than liquid metal. So unless they would accept the removed cover of the drive as a return, there's not going to be any (someone did that but I forget who). The cost of rogue data could be far far greater than even 10,000 hard drives.
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Okay, yeah. PM me. There's a BIG problem here, and the other drives are just masking it. I need more details.

As for RMAing; on this system? Yeah. Unless he's violating the everloving shit out of HIPAA to the extent where he's going to prison potentially, there's nothing to prevent them from being shipped back intact.
For HIPAA and high security environments, your vendor should have worked something out beforehand. Whiteboxes should not be used in HIPAA or high security environments ever, due to increased liability. (We're talking big increases.) For RMAs, you should be receiving certification of data destruction - that's all that's required.

I have a few of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118027 and they are a little slow but they work. I'm not sure if the system would auto-rip multiple drives at once, I'll check on that.
Click to expand...

I don't install those in systems because of the fact that A) they're painfully slow for the money, B) I don't trust the long-term reliability of the laser assembly used in them yet. I really would prefer to use a DVD in the system, and external Blu-Ray for peace of mind. Plus slot loaders are more sensitive to damage, which is a major concern here. Besides, it's cheaper anyways.

And the Speed-Reader? Waugh. No. Overkill. Seriously. Also slower and way too expensive.
 
AreEss said:
As for RMAing; on this system? Yeah. Unless he's violating the everloving shit out of HIPAA to the extent where he's going to prison potentially, there's nothing to prevent them from being shipped back intact.
For HIPAA and high security environments, your vendor should have worked something out beforehand. Whiteboxes should not be used in HIPAA or high security environments ever, due to increased liability. (We're talking big increases.) For RMAs, you should be receiving certification of data destruction - that's all that's required.
Click to expand...

I just wanted to say that in some situations, once the drive has been attached to the system it's never allowed to be sent to a third party. To say that you can be sure of something without knowing the situation of ibdoomed2 is a bit of a leap of faith, don't you think?

I am also interested in the resolution of the samsung failures as I have quite a few of the drives myself. (No problems yet, knock on wood.)
 
Neb said:
I just wanted to say that in some situations, once the drive has been attached to the system it's never allowed to be sent to a third party. To say that you can be sure of something without knowing the situation of ibdoomed2 is a bit of a leap of faith, don't you think?
Click to expand...

If you have any data on a home system that requires that level of security, then you are either overly paranoid, or committing a felony at the Federal level. There is absolutely no data that can legally be on a home system that cannot legally be sent to a third party.
And any manufacturer should have no problem putting in writing that any data on a drive received by them is treated securely, not read or duplicated, and effectively destroyed.
 
I was strictly talking about a work scenario; the original quote had no mention of bringing the drives home:

ibdoomed2 said:
It's mostly error 29 if I remember correctly, or bios simply can't see the drive. It's all irrelevant though, do to the nature of our business hard drive platters cannot leave the building in any other form than liquid metal. So unless they would accept the removed cover of the drive as a return, there's not going to be any (someone did that but I forget who). The cost of rogue data could be far far greater than even 10,000 hard drives.
Click to expand...

It's purely a business decision IMHO.
 
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We kinda went on two tangents here. We were talking about which drives to use in this home media storage server and branched into personal experience. For most of us, dealings with thousands of drives happens at work, not at home. That's when I mentioned I can't personally use samsung because of the high failure rate at work and then it got into warranty and rma'ing and so on.

To clarify: The home media server can RMA drives all day long and no one will care what's on them. Where I work, once a drive is attached to a server (it's tested for two weeks on a desktop test machine first), then there's the possibility of data residing on it and thus it cannot leave the building unless there is a 110% guarantee that data cannot be extracted by a third party. For us, this means literally melting them down.
 
That's what I figured, the relevant but OT talk threw me off :)
 
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