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CPUs and FPS / Games question

U

UltimaBoB

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
215
I own a 9800Gx2. My CPU is a stock speed E6700.

I have heard a lot of people say that once you have a decent CPU, the GPU is the bottleneck for gaming.

BUT I play mostly MMORPGs like Neverwinter Nights 2 and WoW.

In those games I have heard people say that your CPU matters a lot for frames once big multi-player battles kick in.

Thus the Question: SHould I upgrade my CPU to get more out of my 9800GX2 in RPG games? Will it have a noticeable effect? Or should I improve my cooling (always good) and do a simple overclock? Is either worth it in terms of FPS?
 
Most newer games are GPU stressed now and little load on the CPU. BUt you can test your theory and answer it yourself. Simple get a game and run it stock then overclock your cpu and test the fps out then.

Good Day
 
I'm newb hehe so I don't know how to OC and don't want to learn unless it will help my FPS :)

I know MOST games are GPU bound. But I'm thinking big MMORPGs with 20+ player charcters interacting, casting spells, changing values on each other at the same time etc... Plus computer NPCs on AI as well. All in the same area.
 
I'm not sure as i don't play those types of games. Wow did look nice to me but i couldn't edge out having to buy a game then pay to play it online after that. But i mean that 9800Gx2 should cut through all that like butter maxed though.

How much system ram do you have 1gig, 2 gig? As that would make a difference if you had 1gig and went to 2 gig etc. Faster load times and would help out the large number of people playing if it was your server.

Good Day
 
4 GB OCZ DDR-800 3-3-4 ram
150 GB 10,000 RPM WD Raptor HDD

Basically, I'm wondering if a CPU upgrade would help me. NWN2 is not ideally coded and with maximum shadow settings (and shadow map sizes on low/medium) I still go down to 24 FPS sometimes in areas with lots going on when I scroll back to put as much on my 26" screen as possible. Especially when there is water as well. Not sure if CPU would add some frames.
 
UltimaBoB said:
I'm newb hehe so I don't know how to OC and don't want to learn unless it will help my FPS :)

I know MOST games are GPU bound. But I'm thinking big MMORPGs with 20+ player charcters interacting, casting spells, changing values on each other at the same time etc... Plus computer NPCs on AI as well. All in the same area.
Click to expand...

You're right, most games such as FPS games are GPU bound. However, due to the fact that most MMO's (especially WoW) take function over graphics in most cases, you really need a decent CPU. The issue is as you suspect -- your CPU is the thing keeping track of what's going on. For games where you're just shooting a gun and the CPU needs only to track how dead you are and maybe 20 computer-run characters, your GPU is definitely the bottleneck.

If you want more FPS in MMO games, I'd suggest getting a decent processor, or overclocking that one (not sure how well yours overclocks but still)
 
If I picked up an E8500 you think I might see some difference at high rez gaming over my E6700
 
I think the 200$ you would spend on it would be better invested in a social life than the possibility of 2-3 extra FPS in WoW.
 
lol fair enough...that being said, let's assume I don't care about a social life for now :)

I actually play a lot of Neverwinter Nights 2 and have heard very contradictory statements about how important CPU can be.

If I go from a stock E6700 to an OCed E8400 or E8500 can I expect to see more than a 2-3 FPs bump. Not thinking about avg. but rather in those situations where you have lots of water effects and multiple NPCs on AI attacking you plus a big party. My avg. FPS are okay, but there are times it plummets and I'm more concerned about those times.
 
hedron said:
I think the 200$ you would spend on it would be better invested in a social life than the possibility of 2-3 extra FPS in WoW.
Click to expand...

Heh, yea. MMO's don't involve forming relationships with other people. Not at all.

'Sides, how would you invest money in a social life, besides paying someone off to like you?
 
I'm pretty sure I need to get more CPU power. The question is OC my 6700 or upgrade to E8500?
 
Overclock it. Even do a simple, mild OC without raising your voltage, and compare the difference.

I don't play WoW anymore really, but I can tell you that the bottleneck in my system was still the video card, at the highest settings of course(and maxxed multisampling, etc).
 
Have you tried running FRAPS during a big raid on your current system? Just to see your current fps...
 
yeah I am running FRAPS and definitely would like more FPS. And I do notice it is slower when more people are in my party or more NPCs are on the screen.
 
What resolution is this? With lots of AA and AF or what?

I played at 1920x1200 for about six months with an FX-62 (Slightly worse than stock E6600) and a single 7950GX2 (Similar to original 8800 GTS). I played a level 60, did some raids, this was before the expansion came out. I definitely never had any FPS issues, biggest raid I did was ~20 man or so.

The idea of getting sub-60 fps with a 9800GX2 is a little funny to me...
I don't think any CPU is going to give you much of a boost. Especially if you go ahead and OC your current cpu. Could be the game itself lagging? I don't know how good the WoW engine is.

I'm guessing it's not quad supported, the best you could do (for more fps) is an E8400 pushed to 4 GHz roughly. Even then that's not much of a performance increase over a stock E6700 at all...

If I had to guess I would say the game itself gets choppy with multiple users on the screen.
 
UltimaBoB said:
I'm newb hehe so I don't know how to OC and don't want to learn unless it will help my FPS :)

I know MOST games are GPU bound. But I'm thinking big MMORPGs with 20+ player charcters interacting, casting spells, changing values on each other at the same time etc... Plus computer NPCs on AI as well. All in the same area.
Click to expand...

All about how much of the networking load is done by the networking chipset and how much is done by the CPU. Different motherboards, different numbers. Also, of course, how its programmed has much to do with it. That said, an E6700 is plenty powerful. I wouldn't worry about it. Usually network intensive games are programmed to just run using expired network data if need be (lag). You will still be moving around on screen, but the players and possibly the spells/attacks will be frozen in their place. When the connection is re-established everyone will jump to their most recently reported position. (on their screen, you will jump to where you moved while everyone was frozen taking any damage or modified in whatever way the engine feels is most appropriate.)

The real CPU killers are RTS games. Getting a CPU to control 8 sophisticaed "AI" bots is enough to bring even the highest clocked yorkfield (Q[X]9000 series) to its knees. In this situation it depends how the game developer decided to code the game. Perhalps FPS might not drop but to accomodate the extra workload the CPU will begin to slow the game down. Everything will still be fluid on screen, it will just be moving slowly. Another work around is to simply start dropping commands (making the AI increasingly more irrational). In a poorly done game this can lead to CPU players getting caught on walls or on map features.

I know I'm getting a little off topic but I'll bring up one more point. Another big client bound CPU workload is physics and my favorite interpretation of this is how Steams Source does it. When a player dies (lets say via a grenade), all networking relations with that player are cut off and the rag doll physics is done entirly on the client side (each players computer, independantly). If the CPU is bogged down with more then it can handle, to keep things streaming in real time and to keep the FPS high the Source engine will aggressivly start dropping normal physics exicutions. The result is that CounterStrike: Source Player A (who has more CPU power) in Calgary Alberta sees (more accuratly) the guy who was just killed by a grenade fall on a box limp, where as Counterstrike: Source Player B (who has less CPU power) in Seattle Washington will see (less accuratly) the guy who was just killed by a grenade fall forward not touching the box. How majestically the physics engine acts when random requests arn't getting exicuted is entirly up to the developers.

Anyways, back on topic, I think your CPU is fine for WOW.
 
The better the cpu the more frames you will get in WoW. It was even the case with ram going from 1gig-2gig-4gig I noticed a big improvement. WoW is very very cpu intensive. I personally feel, you'll gain more performance.

Just overclock it and see. Also this is the wrong forum to ask, ask on the WoW boards as I assure you out of 10million people there are quite a few hardware enthusiasts.(there are also a lot of idiots though) That play the game and have seen the difference.

However the only time,frames should be an issue in WoW is in a 25man raid.Providing you have a fairly recent system which you do.

What is your framerate in raids currently? I'd be suprised if it ever dipped below 45.
 
overclock your CPU.

GO into bios, find the part where it says "FSB" it should be at something like 266, change that to 300 or 315.

voila you've just overclocked your cpu
 
Neverwinter Nights 2 is a CPU AND Graphics hog. It also especially kills ATI cards because of its heavily modified "Aurora" engine which they name something else now.


Gamespot has an old guide of NWN2 and it shows a Core 2 Duo and 8800 GTX with 1600x1200 medium settings:
1.87Ghz(E6320): 29fps
2.4Ghz (E6600): 37fps
2.93Ghz(X6800): 45fps
FX-60@ 2.8Ghz: 30fps
FX-60@ 2.4Ghz: 27 fps
 
Actually, I used WoW more as an example of ONLINE RPG games that can be CPU hogs.

I play Neverwinter Nights 2 with my friends and have never touched WoW. That being said, because I had some money to burn, and I wanted to lower my temps since my whole system was running hot, I purchased today:

1 x E8500
1 x Thermalright Ultra Extreme Heat Sink
2 x 120 MM fans for the Heat sink
4 x 120 MM fans on an external fan controller
1 x Artic Cooler MX2 thermal compound
1 x PCI-E slot cooler

All of this goes inside my Antec P180 case and out go the Tri-Cools.

It is all coming on Sunday and I am going to install it with a friend who knows what he is doing. Gonna try to get my hands a bit dirty personally this time. I'm determined to get my temps down which were:

Idle / Gaming/ Load

CPU: 43 / 61 / 70
GPU: 50 / 72 / 72+ (no idea how to stress test them)
HDD: 25 and climbs to 46 fast

Probably didn't need to upgrade my CPU but why not lol And once I have everything installed I am gonna try to overclock my CPU and my GPU. I'm getting into this computer stuff lol Let's hope I don't blow my stuff up.
 
Where's an "E8600" with a 10x multiplier?
:(

[edit]
Wow, I guess the E8600 is a real processor.
 
I probably should have bought the E8400 in retrospect. But I still don't entirely know what I'm doing lol

Seems one way to learn is to burn through a lot of money that could have been spent more judiciously :) I wonder if I am the only guy who has learned his lessons this way?
 
Nope man, you aren't the only one who wastes money on hardware then later says to himself, "What the hell was I thinking?"
 
I plugged in the 8500 today and I noticed a significant increase in my FPS. In particular in sections dealing with water which were huge FPS killers.

As far as I'm concerned, the idea that only the GPU matters is getting thrown around a bit too much. It really does depend on the game. The next post I will make will be me begging for a walk through on overclocking this baby!
 
There should be a Core 2 Duo OC'ing sticky up on the Overclocking and Cooling forum. Here's the link:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1198647

He used a Q6600, but it really isn't that much different (except I think there's a different way to apply the thermal grease).

Also, I agree. I blame nVidia for claiming that your GPU is more important than your CPU.
 
It is more important IMO - overwhlemingly so in the most popular recent titles (not including WoW. But people have perhaps extrapolated from that too far.

Oh I definitely have read the guide thread and will again. But I'm still gonna get some help and walk through it very slow. Maybe over 2-3 weeks. Gonna do the GPU too.
 
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