CPU situation for 3d artist

professional loser

Weaksauce
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Mar 22, 2018
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98
I want to build a Ryzen 5950x based system with one or two RTX GPUs. The system is not for gaming but for 3d work. All cores and GPU will get fully loaded when CPU and GPU rendering.
Situation is that I will have to concentrate on CPU rendering for now as all RTX GPUs are missing in action!

On the other hand, 5950X is also out of stock! So I am thinking getting Dark Hero VIII MOBO and getting a CPU that is currently available, then replace it with 5950x, or it's successor when availability improves? Chances of 5950X successor being compatible with Dark Hero VIII will probably be low?

So which CPU from this list should I get?

_________________________

Currently Available
_________________________

Ryzen 5800X- $460
Ryzen 3900X- $450
Ryzen 3950X- $730
_________________________

Not Available
_________________________

Ryzen 5900X-$600
Ryzen 5950X-$850
 

professional loser

Weaksauce
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Mar 22, 2018
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What kind of 3D work are you doing, CAD?
Everything, CAD, Maya, etc 2D as well. So fast single core speed for non rendering work, then as many cores as possible for CPU rendering, then GPU for GPU rendering stuff.
From the list, 5950X was perfect but I can't get hold of it.
 

professional loser

Weaksauce
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I would go with an nvidia quadro video card for what you want instead. The 3950X would do what you want just fine. unless you can wait for stock on the 5950X.
Quadro is too overpriced for my needs, also the CAD I do does not need Quadro. Do you think 5950X would show up within a month? Some people think it might not show up all year :-O

Paying almost the same price for 3950X as 5950X ($150 difference) for lower performance is painful lol
F**** COVID!!!!

Grr.PNG
 

Choopyplz

Limp Gawd
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If it were me, I'd build with a 5800x or 3900x, with the intention to eventually upgrade the CPU. I also don't feel like it'd be great to buy the 3950x at such a high price when it's currently in the process of being phased out. 3900x gets you 12 core/24 threads -- 5800x gets you 8 core/16 threads but higher performance per core. You may be able to find a good deal on a 3900X though, I haven't really shopped around.
 

M76

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Quadro is too overpriced for my needs, also the CAD I do does not need Quadro. Do you think 5950X would show up within a month? Some people think it might not show up all year :-O
At least quadro you can probably get, as it is too overpriced for miners as well.
Paying almost the same price for 3950X as 5950X ($150 difference) for lower performance is painful lol
F**** COVID!!!!
It is not due to covid. When 39xx launched in 2019 those were mia for months as well.
 

Kardonxt

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What are your current systems specs?

If it's so old that even the 5800x is a big upgrade, Then I would just pick up the 5800 and swap it when availability improves.
 

Choopyplz

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Oh forgot to say, but you're right about a successor not being compatible with that mobo -- the 5000 series is the last that will be on the AM4 platform. 5950X is the peak performance available on that socket.
 

LukeTbk

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All cores and GPU will get fully loaded when CPU and GPU rendering.
CAD, Maya, etc 2D as well.
You would know much more than me, but is it common for rendering task to fully load both and not one or the other like in Blender.

That said maybe you still want both powerful gpu and cpu, but for example in Maya real time viewport rendering is GPU but non real time rendering is CPU-Ram heavy, at least it still was 3 year's ago.

Newer version can use Arnold rendering as well to use gpu rendering (that is more limited but faster when it work), it can depend of the workload but if you 2 fast gpu adding a cpu in the mix can slow you down.

Maybe I am misunderstanding but:
https://www.nexttv.com/post-type-th...fers-production-rendering-on-both-cpu-and-gpu
Arnold’s intuitive interface makes it easy to toggle between CPU and GPU rendering

Is it not better to concentrate on one or the other ? If you have a large array of application maybe some will use the CPU and some will use the GPUs making it a mute point (or for some render you will see issue with the gpu rendering making you toggle back to cpu), but it could something to validate.
 

Wormfeeder

n00b
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You might also try the AMD website they sell processors and video cards directly from the site. they restock every week but they go fast.
 

professional loser

Weaksauce
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Ok I will reply to all the questions in one post :) Thanks for allowing me to think out loud and giving me some potential ideas.

What are your current systems specs? If it's so old that even the 5800x is a big upgrade, Then I would just pick up the 5800 and swap it when availability improves.
Good question Kardonxt. I was using a more powerful PC at work, but I won't have access to it any more. I will be working self-employed from home which is why I need to build this workstation. My current home PC uses an old i7 5800X. Anything will be a big upgrade over it, but that is setting the bar too low for a work related PC ;-) I could have continued with the i7 5800X for a bit if I could have got hold of RTX3090 or 3080. Anyway the PC is being used for livestreaming daily for a side project that is generating hard cash during these Covid times so it is out of the picture.

Is it not better to concentrate on one or the other ?....You would know much more than me, but is it common for rendering task to fully load both and not one or the other like in Blender.
Hi, LukeTbk
There are different apps for different use. So when I am modeling in 3d, a graphic card is important but does not need to be a super powerful one (depending on size of scene geometry etc). When I render, I have the option to either render using CPU only or GPU only, depends on the software I am using. I won't be rendering using the GPU and CPU both at the same time. It will be one or the other.

For example, Octane renderer is a GPU only renderer, so it won't use CPU for rendering at all but a good CPU will still significantly improve scene-loading speeds. A GPU with large amount of memory also helps with fitting the scene in. For example, I had a card with 6GB of memory, and it would not fit one of the scene and would keep crashing. As things stand RTX 3090 with 24GB of memory would be ideal, 10-12 GB will do too. As GPUs are hard to come by right now, I need to concentrate on CPU rendering only for now.

So single thread CPU speed important for Adobe stuff and responsiveness in both 2d and 3d apps. Multiple cores useful when rendering using CPU.

Ideal for my needs-

A 5900X with RTX3080= Good
A 5900X with RTX3090 = Very Good
A 5950X with RTX3080 = Near Perfect
A 5950X with RTX3090= Perfect
A 5950X with 2 x RTX GPUs = Superb Orgasmic lol

Here some single and multicore comparisons between my old i7 and other options

i7 vs 5800.PNG5800 vs 3900.PNG5800 5950.PNG
 

Mr. Bluntman

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At least quadro you can probably get, as it is too overpriced for miners as well.
Exactly this. Plus Quadros really are optimized for the stuff that you will be doing, while GeForce cards are not. I would just pony up. It's better than giving a scalper the money.
 

pinoy

Limp Gawd
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The only difference between a Quadro and equivalent Geforce is driver tech support is more proactive with Quadro since it's tailored for professional use and you pay for that service. Performance wise they are the same.
 

LukeTbk

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Performance wise they are the same.
Even in wireframe doubled sided polygon rendering ?

Last generation you could see a good difference in engineering CAD, maybe those mode for artistic use are not that relevant nowaday too (back in my amateur days you were often working in wireframe mode to have some performance):

workstation-gpu-bench_solidworks-viewport.png

workstation-gpu-bench_catia-viewport.png

I think it is more than stability via better driver but performance in some cad as well at least historically, the quadro-radeon pro were sometime nearly twice has fast as a 2080ti, sometime in complete different world:
workstation-gpu-bench_siemens-nx-viewport.png

For artistic workflow too I feel that in 2021 you are probably right.
 

KazeoHin

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I do 3D art for games and printing, and I honestly feel the GPU is such a HUGE factor in rendering that its almost un-imaginable to use anything else unless you are actually using more RAM than the video card can maintain. I use a threadripper 2950X, and yes, a new 8-core 5800X can easilly tie it in MT and completely stomp it in ST, the rendering performance is an order of magnitude behind a MID RANGE graphics card like a 3060.

Enable Optix on a 3060 and you'll have something rendering 10-15x faster than a 5800X.
 

chameleoneel

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Messages
4,211
I want to build a Ryzen 5950x based system with one or two RTX GPUs. The system is not for gaming but for 3d work. All cores and GPU will get fully loaded when CPU and GPU rendering.
Situation is that I will have to concentrate on CPU rendering for now as all RTX GPUs are missing in action!

On the other hand, 5950X is also out of stock! So I am thinking getting Dark Hero VIII MOBO and getting a CPU that is currently available, then replace it with 5950x, or it's successor when availability improves? Chances of 5950X successor being compatible with Dark Hero VIII will probably be low?

So which CPU from this list should I get?

_________________________

Currently Available
_________________________

Ryzen 5800X- $460
Ryzen 3900X- $450
Ryzen 3950X- $730
_________________________

Not Available
_________________________

Ryzen 5900X-$600
Ryzen 5950X-$850
Get a used 3900x for about $350. Maybe even $300 if you are lucky.
 

slavie

Weaksauce
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Jan 2, 2012
Messages
118
Ryzen 5000 availability has been improving noticeably recently. If you have time to wait, better wait.
Otherwise, sounds like it's coming down to a price-performance ratio. How much do you value your time? Is the extra performance worth it to you from a time-savings point of view? Then go for the best you can afford, maybe even look into a Threadripper build. If you use the machine to make money, you have to look at it as an investment that will generate a return for you. It's no different then if you were a cook and needed to buy an oven - bigger faster oven, more product to sell and make money; but, too much oven and you can't sell enough product, you're wasting money. Do the math based on how much you'll be using it and how much money it will generate for you.
 

robijito123

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I would think from what i gathered from above that the 16 cores 32t will help more in the short term that the architectural improvements from AMD 3xxx to 5xxx, and hard to justify a $500 delta any way in my opinion ;). I know from my CAD experience the faster IPC did help in certian workflows. Good luck on finding a gpu / dum your savings there.
 

pgaster

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re: Quadro vs Geforce...

The drivers are the big difference between these two.
To be more specific, the opengl part of the drivers are very different.
Opengl CAD programs like SolidWorks and Siemens NX will show huge differences. Most people will want to turn on shaded edges in these programs. It helps you see surfaces and edges better. Only the Quadro drivers have hardware accelerated lines, which are the shaded edges. This is also important if you are old school and want to look at things in wireframe. Hardware accelerated lines are either disabled in the Geforce drivers so they run on the cpu, or they are somehow made to run slow. There may be other feature differences too, but I think this is one is the biggest differences. Of course I'm not an expert. I am an engineer and have been following CAD video card reviews for a few decades now.

Techgage recently did a bunch of tests with different gpus. Look at the Siemens NX results. https://techgage.com/viewimg/?img=h...NX 1080p Viewport Performance (February 2021)
At 1080P, a Quadro P2200, which is a cut down GTX 1060, gets 191.7 fps. An RTX 3090 only gets 28.4 fps. No way that makes any sense in terms of hardware, it has to be drivers.

If you are using Autodesk CAD software, note that they use DirectX and not Opengl. As far as I know the Geforce and Quadro DirectX drivers are basically the same. There are no gimped features that I know of. You can run Geforce cards just fine and get great performance. Well, if you can find one in stock of course.

You really only need to worry about getting a quadro if you need great OpenGL performance.


To get more back to on topic of cpus, you might want to check out Puget Systems articles. They do lots of benchmarks on cpus to help people better decide on what to buy: https://www.pugetsystems.com/all_articles.php
You may have to scroll down, or go to the slightly older articles, or use search, but they do lots of testing with different programs so you can see how cpus perform. Some programs work great with more cores, but some don't and IPC wins. You have to look at the reviews and decide what will work best for you. SolidWorks modeling doesn't use more than maybe 2 cores last I knew so IPC was king, but if you want to do renderings a lot then more cores will be a big help as an example.
 

Mloot

Limp Gawd
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Apr 29, 2003
Messages
372
There have been a few 3950x cpus show up in the FS/FT forum (recently) in the low $500+ range, from users that have upgraded to Ryzen 5xxx. That is a significant cost difference vs a new 5950x, if you don't mind buying used parts.
 

Domingo

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Messages
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I'm kinda in the same boat. I'm now thinking about taking the plunge with either the 5800x or 5950x...mainly because those are the only two Microcenter ever seems to have in stock. I guess they have the 5600x, too...but I dunno if there's a big dropoff there or not.

How "serious" are the 5800x heat issues for normal use? I use about 1/2 of the Adobe CC suite every day. I'm also fond of high-end gaming at 4K. I don't touch Blender or CAD anything. I get that people say it's a poor value, but it seems like that $800 5950x is far worse for what I'm doing. What about the 5600x? I'm new to the world of AMD, so I don't really know the different models that well.
 

professional loser

Weaksauce
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I do 3D art for games and printing, and I honestly feel the GPU is such a HUGE factor in rendering that its almost un-imaginable to use anything else unless you are actually using more RAM than the video card can maintain. I use a threadripper 2950X, and yes, a new 8-core 5800X can easilly tie it in MT and completely stomp it in ST, the rendering performance is an order of magnitude behind a MID RANGE graphics card like a 3060.

Enable Optix on a 3060 and you'll have something rendering 10-15x faster than a 5800X.
No GPUs available here in Europe bro lol Old cards are selling for $$$$$s

For my needs I don't need a Quadro cards (BTW they have been renamed now RTX A6000 etc). I am self-employed small business. I need the card for rendering, for actual viewport working the gaming cards work perfectly for me.

The CUDA cores are important for me and enough VRAM for the scene.
  • RTX 3060 Ti (4864 CUDA Cores, 8GB VRAM)
  • RTX 3070 (5888 CUDA Cores, 8GB VRAM)
  • RTX 3080 (8704 CUDA Cores, 10GB VRAM) (Wish it had more RAM)
  • RTX 3090 (10496 CUDA Cores, 24GB VRAM) (PERFECT FOR MY NEEDS)
A RTX 3090 equivalent "PRO" card costs I think $4000-5000! There is RTX A4000 (16GB) and RTX A6000 (48GB). I would be crazy to spend that on a card!
 

Ramspeed

n00b
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Jan 27, 2021
Messages
19
The more you spend, ..the hardware should be faster, in theory.
Perfectly paired lesser hardware, can also be extremely fast.
For renders choose More and faster cores + more Vram + Dram. (min. 32 Gb)
For games, ....the fastest cores speed and graph-card. (min. 8 Gb)
Don't forget the right ram, mobo, cooling, monitor, power sup.

..only speaking .... own experience. :blackalien:
 
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