Core gamers no longer matter - go casual or GTFO

Sovern said:
There are already plenty of difficult games out there anyways. Try playing Spec Op's the line on the hardest difficulty. That game has a really good storyline and good gunplay. I thought that game was going to be a joke but after getting it on sale for $6 it's easily my GOTY.
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There is a difference between a well built challenge and difficulty being raised through lazy game design. Third person shooters with regenerative health are not challenging or difficult at all. They are lowest common denominator for gaming at the moment with 2 or more being released a month. You can simply sit behind a wall all day and peekaboo all the enemies until they are all dead. The only difference the difficulty provides is how long you have to wait behind cover for your infinite health to recharge so you kill the next brain dead enemy. This is not a well built challenge and is a extremely boring experience when there is no tension of actually dieing or actual challenge to overcome.
 
Quicksilver_ said:
I don't see that at all. I wouldn't say games are becoming harder, but the concept of core and casual is elitist crap created by people who have been gaming for a long time and think developers owe them something.
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I sort of agree. I don't see it either. I think a lot of people with that mindset tend to look at gaming with nostalgia glasses and forget that while there were a lot of great games in the past (golden age?), there was also a lot of trash... same as today.

I would even argue that with Independant developers now having a real audience (thanks to social media and the interwebs), newer/better technologies and design tools, that we have more options than ever before. People are trying new concepts and refining past ones.
 
I did not read the whole thread, so this might have been stated already. I think the worst of times are fading fast and a new age of gaming is upon us. With it being easier than ever for indi developers to release games it is going to force big studios to either step up their creativity to justify a $60 pricetag, or require them to drop prices. Either way, Gamers will win.
 
xIronCrossx said:
This entire thread sounds like a bunch of people whining because games aren't how they want them to.

Not everyone these days is interested in hard games anymore, some people have a difficult day at work or something. People just want to have FUN in their games, but that is a difficult concept for many to grasp.
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Some people like dumb fun, so everyone who doesn't should shut up?

You're whining about people whining when you seem to be one of the people benefitting from the dumbed down gaming scene I criticise and offer solutions to. Congratulations.


TwistedAegis said:
I think this is semi-appropriate here:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/online_gaming
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This is perpetuating the fallacy that videogames are a waste of time, are for children and social retards, and that other forms of wasting free time like outdoor activities and sex (which requires social participation, or access to a brothel) are somehow more valid.
 
Plague_Injected said:
Some people like dumb fun, so everyone who doesn't should shut up?

You're whining about people whining when you seem to be one of the people benefitting from the dumbed down gaming scene I criticise and offer solutions to. Congratulations.




This is perpetuating the fallacy that videogames are a waste of time, are for children and social retards, and that other forms of wasting free time like outdoor activities and sex (which requires social participation, or access to a brothel) are somehow more valid.
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One requires interaction with human beings the other doesn't, at least not directly. I hope you are not suggesting video games are better than sex.
 
xIronCrossx said:
One requires interaction with human beings the other doesn't, at least not directly. I hope you are not suggesting video games are better than sex.
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Neither is better than the other. That's the point; enjoying all forms of entertainment is in actual fact a waste of time, since it's not "working" or otherwise "constructive".
 
Plague_Injected said:
Neither is better than the other. That's the point; enjoying all forms of entertainment is in actual fact a waste of time, since it's not "working" or otherwise "constructive".
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The funny thing is that even working is a waste of time. You work till 60 or 70 (or hope to if you don't die beforehand, the future is uncertain) when you start to suffer from illnesses, then you retire and do nothing but enjoy sensual pleasures and die.....pretty sad if you ask me lol.
 
Sovern said:
The funny thing is that even working is a waste of time. You work till 60 or 70 (or hope to if you don't die beforehand, the future is uncertain) when you start to suffer from illnesses, then you retire and do nothing but enjoy sensual pleasures and die.....pretty sad if you ask me lol.
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Agreed.
 
The average gamer is "the working man (person)" and/or family, companies realize this and make their AAA titles easily accessable and enjoyable for this player base to maximize profit. There are still titles out there for the "core gamer", but you won't see many (if any); widly advertized, have AAA title budget, have large fan base, or (in the case of pc games) have a lot of developer software support.
 
I find the cartoon disingenuous - when was the last time a girl asked you if you wanted to go jet skiing and/or cave diving, drink microbrews and have freaky sex? Real life just isn't like that.
 
I disagree, it seems like we are amidst a pc gaming revolution. Sure, the casual market is huge but there are still areas where the core PC gamer can blossom.
 
I agree with the comic. I rarely (more like never) use voice anymore.
 
Staples said:
I agree with the comic. I rarely (more like never) use voice anymore.
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I unplugged my mic after DOTA 2 rage... I find if I don't have access to it I just ignore people's stupidity and continue playing my part, but if I do have it, there is a need for me to say something about it.
 
Plague_Injected said:
This is perpetuating the fallacy that videogames are a waste of time, are for children and social retards, and that other forms of wasting free time like outdoor activities and sex (which requires social participation, or access to a brothel) are somehow more valid.
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The comic is over the top, but comedy is like that. Multiplayer gaming in particular can be a cesspool of racism, sexism and just pure douche-baggery. I had to turn off in-game voice in Counter-Strike.

I love gaming and MP gaming. I just think it's good to keep it in perspective.

MrAgmoore said:
I find the cartoon disingenuous - when was the last time a girl asked you if you wanted to go jet skiing and/or cave diving, drink microbrews and have freaky sex? Real life just isn't like that.
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Well in the last month a girl has asked me to go snowboarding, out for drinks and have sex...maybe she didn't say freaky straight up, but it may or may not have ended up that way. :p

That's the thing I find now; as a kid I spent more time indoors and had more free time to be "hardcore" and master difficult mechanics, etc. Now between work and a wider variety of social activities, I find I have less of that time. Not that an adult choosing to spend their time gaming over the different activities I'm doing is an invalid or worse choice; I'm just trying to show a different perspective than what is being offered here.
 
I find myself gaming a lot less in my old age, but when I do, it tends to be with games that are considered "hardcore". I don't have the patience for casual games, if that makes any sense.
 
kbrickley said:
I think even among "gamers" there are more than one class of gamer ;)

The Remember Wheners - folks who love their GOG titles and only play games from the classic days. Generally older gamers who have 20 or more years of gaming under their belts.

The Strength in Numbers - these would be your MMO and MP types who only game with others (probably a member of one or more clans or teams) and has a reserved spot at their local LAN party.

The PnPers - these would be your hard core strategy or role player who expects 100s of hours of complex gameplay. They will eschew games that require reflexes in favor of games with intense and complex strategy options.

The Reflexologist - these would be your twitchy fancy moves, rapid button (or keyboard) pushing types. They will favor the old school shooters like Quake Arena or RTS like Starcraft.

The Computer Quarterback - these would be your sports fans that play one of more of the sporting genre type games (Soccer, NFL, etc).

The Indie - these only play Indie games and eschew the big budget publisher titles.

The Buffet - gamers who like many types of games. They may not actually finish too many games since they will play dozens, if not hundreds of different titles.

The Visualist - these are your gamers that that expect every game to require 2 or more video cards and overclocked quad core to run even on the middle settings. They want games that bring their systems to their knees and leave them crying like little girls for a couple of year until the technology finally becomes available to run them efficiently.

The Storyteller - these would be your gamers that want the big complex layered stories (not necessarily cut scenes) with depth that add context and purpose to the game title. They will often apply the suspension of disbelief requirement to games.

I am sure there are other types I couldn't think of off the top of my head but they are all valid "real gamer" types. There are many types of casual gamers as well :cool:
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I am The Storyteller gamer but it only applies if I am playing RPG that are not pure hack and slash. I either accept perfection or none that means a half baked effort on doing both just fails...but for adventure games I seriously don't like long winded stories.
 
MorgothPl said:
FOr me, the most important part of any game is story. I treat game as an interactive book, that you can influence some of the elements of it, but there is a start to story and an ending to it. ANd yes, you may call me casual - I don't spend every minute of my free time playing games on hard level -most of my games I finish on easy - because I prefer "story mode".

And because there are more and more people, who have less then an hour daily to spend for gaming, due to family, job, other activities, then the companies make the games for us, knowing that they will earn more on such things.

Exact thing happened with movie industry. Most of revenues are generated by all those Hollywood blockbusters, that noone sane would ever call "great". But, there are lot of "indie" stuff, that can cater to watchers who want more to see than "I'm superhero, I'll save the world" type.

Also, some people, me included, prefer old movies, claiming they were much better - things like Bergman's "7th seal", Kurosawa movies, and such had much more acting and meaning then any of modern crap.
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I was going to make a point along these exact same lines. I play games for enjoyment and entertainment. Sometimes, it can be a very complex and deep game (Deus Ex and DX:HR), but other times it can be a mindless shoot-fest (Serious Sam).

I just finished Halo 4's campaign. I'm not a Halo series fanboy, but after finishing that game, it just felt good. It was solid. All the elements weren't groundbreaking or new, but they were well done and the game was fun.

If a game is fun for someone and not you, what's the problem? Oh, you've played games longer than others? Good for you. There's no reason other people can't have fun too.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
I find myself gaming a lot less in my old age, but when I do, it tends to be with games that are considered "hardcore". I don't have the patience for casual games, if that makes any sense.
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Personally as I've found myself gaming less as I have more other things to do, I just find myself also caring less what I play as long as it's fun. I still enjoy what might be considered "hardcore", but if I find myself playing a "casual" game, whatever, I can still get in to it as long as it's a reasonably enjoyable game (which is obviously very subjective).

The only real obstacle to "hardcore" games is I find anything overly in depth, I need to play regularly to keep my mind in the game. The was my problem with some of the TES games, I'd play an hour or two here and there, then I'd get too busy to play any games for a few weeks and when I go back I have little motivation to delve back in to the complicated game, and tend to just start a new game instead.
 
Tudz said:
Personally as I've found myself gaming less as I have more other things to do, I just find myself also caring less what I play as long as it's fun. I still enjoy what might be considered "hardcore", but if I find myself playing a "casual" game, whatever, I can still get in to it as long as it's a reasonably enjoyable game (which is obviously very subjective).

The only real obstacle to "hardcore" games is I find anything overly in depth, I need to play regularly to keep my mind in the game. The was my problem with some of the TES games, I'd play an hour or two here and there, then I'd get too busy to play any games for a few weeks and when I go back I have little motivation to delve back in to the complicated game, and tend to just start a new game instead.
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That's my problem with games too, I need to play the more time consuming games a lot more on average in order to not plain quit them, TES is a problem for me as well. There are just so many other things I'd rather do than devote ALL my time to TES. Do I HAVE devote all my time to TES? Well no, I don't have a gun to my head, but I'd LIKE to if I'm playing that kind of game. I think timing is everything...
 
I did not read the thread, but it is definitely looking that way:
http://money.cnn.com/gallery/investing/2013/01/02/ipo-predictions-2013.fortune/9.html

Pay close attention to how they label this specific company's facebook games. The threshold is dropping rapidly.

P.S.
And no I personally do not look for super-hardcore games to play just so I can tout to a bunch of people that have no life, "look, i'm hardcore!" I like a balance between fun, thinking, and challenge. However, that balance has mostly disappeared, with very few niche options left (and rapidly shrinking) for thinking and challenge, and as a result, the fun is disappearing as well.
 
According to a lot of people in this thread, even FB games can be hardcore if they have a "nice" story :D
 
dgz said:
According to a lot of people in this thread, even FB games can be hardcore if they have a "nice" story :D
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Guess it depends on your definition of "hardcore" doesn't it ... some of those FB games can require time committments that rival WoW ... even if the game is pretty simple, if you are spending 8-10 hours a day playing it, then that is pretty hardcore ;)

On that note you can measure a game's hardcore factor in several areas:

Money - if you are spending hundreds of dollars playing your game then that is pretty hardcore (pretty stupid also, but definitely hardcore) :p

Time - I am fighting to find a couple of hours a day to play when I am working ... if you can spend 8-10 hours a day gaming that is pretty hardcore :eek:

Reflexes - If you have to have better reflexes than a fighter pilot to survive or win your game than that is pretty hardcore :cool:

Knowledge - If you require more knowledge and skill to play your game than the average doctoral thesis candidate to get his degree then that is pretty hardcore :)

It all depends on your perspective :D
 
Of course, maybe we need a modified version of the famous Jeff Foxworthy "you might be redneck" routine :D

You might be a hardcore gamer if:

You turn on your computer rig and the lights in the neighborhood flicker
You look at a 6 monitor setup and think, "maybe if they had a few more monitors"
You wear out mice and keyboards faster than you wear out clothes and shoes
You don't like "Whack a Mole" because it is too easy
The screen changes while you are gaming can cause nearby observers to have an epileptic fit
You have ever considered the need for two mice or a third arm
You carry more insurance on your computer rig than you do on your car
You wake up with a keyboard pattern on your face
You set a spoon in your coffee cup and it stands up straight
They have to create a new disease name "Mouse finger" because of the clicking injuries your regularly experience
You cancel your WoW account and the president of Blizzard personally calls you to ask you to come back

Anyone want to add some more :D
 
kbrickley said:
Of course, maybe we need a modified version of the famous Jeff Foxworthy "you might be redneck" routine :D

You might be a hardcore gamer if:

You turn on your computer rig and the lights in the neighborhood flicker
You look at a 6 monitor setup and think, "maybe if they had a few more monitors"
You wear out mice and keyboards faster than you wear out clothes and shoes
You don't like "Whack a Mole" because it is too easy
The screen changes while you are gaming can cause nearby observers to have an epileptic fit
You have ever considered the need for two mice or a third arm
You carry more insurance on your computer rig than you do on your car
You wake up with a keyboard pattern on your face
You set a spoon in your coffee cup and it stands up straight
They have to create a new disease name "Mouse finger" because of the clicking injuries your regularly experience
You cancel your WoW account and the president of Blizzard personally calls you to ask you to come back

Anyone want to add some more :D
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You are a known poster in game forums.
You think Carpal Tunnel is for noobs.
There are more soda cans on your desk than in your refrigerator.
You have called in to work due to a new game release.
You took time off from work for a new game release.
You hate wireless gaming gear because the battery life is to short and you always have to to plug them in anyways.
You still know the cheat code for Contra on NES.:p
 
MrAgmoore said:
After having my fill of "Theme Hospital", I installed "Wing Commander IV" and I was shocked that it takes up 7.1 GB of hard drive space ( the game came out in 1996 ):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander_IV:_The_Price_of_Freedom

I realised that I really need a joystick and the last time that I used one, was when FreeSpace 2 came out ( 1999 ).
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I actually had to do an internet search after this ... I wasn't sure if they even made non-flying game joysticks anymore ... apparently they do :)
 
There is still plenty of games that are high quality.

Games such as BF3, SC2, DOTA 2, IRACING, star citizen, nba 2k13, etc...
 
I agree with OP for the most part, gaming went mainstream with the last generation of consoles and they've boomed in the last 7 years, pushing gaming into the top entertainment industry in the world.

So much that the target audience for games is no longer "gamers", that is to say the target audience isn't people who play games as a hobby and have a genuine interest in games, they're casual gamers who have a shallow interest in games.

It's sad, I'm watching my favorite hobby waste away like a cancer riddled patient who's just found out that we've run out of standard treatment and all we can do is accept the end is near. We've seen some struggles to turn this around, but they're nothing more than empty PR statements to string along the older gamers that some kind of effort has been made. Very occasionally we get a mainstream title which does actually acknowledge these issues, Deus Ex Human Revolution actually catered to the backlash of the Deus Ex fans concerning dumb console object highlighting and on screen hits/aids etc, but this is the exception not the rule.

I'm 30 this year and my tastes have matured enough now to start leaving gaming behind, I've discovered the wonderful world of infosec and I'd rather fine tune my IT career, learn something interesting and tinker with that in my spare time. I love gaming, not just PC gaming or video gaming just all games, they stimulate me in ways that nothing else can really manage, but games now just aren't stimulating, that's definitely not a change in me, I still boot up old games and some modern indie games to get my fix, I've spent more time playing FTL and re-playing the old Theme Hospital than any other modern AAA game.

Games are shit these days, and if you don't think so then you're a filthy casual. Why? Because I say so, 20 years of non stop gaming and it literally has never been worse. I booted up the original Dungeon keeper the other day, it's literally better than anything I've played in the last 3 years.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
I agree with OP for the most part, gaming went mainstream with the last generation of consoles and they've boomed in the last 7 years, pushing gaming into the top entertainment industry in the world.

So much that the target audience for games is no longer "gamers", that is to say the target audience isn't people who play games as a hobby and have a genuine interest in games, they're casual gamers who have a shallow interest in games.

It's sad, I'm watching my favorite hobby waste away like a cancer riddled patient who's just found out that we've run out of standard treatment and all we can do is accept the end is near. We've seen some struggles to turn this around, but they're nothing more than empty PR statements to string along the older gamers that some kind of effort has been made. Very occasionally we get a mainstream title which does actually acknowledge these issues, Deus Ex Human Revolution actually catered to the backlash of the Deus Ex fans concerning dumb console object highlighting and on screen hits/aids etc, but this is the exception not the rule.

I'm 30 this year and my tastes have matured enough now to start leaving gaming behind, I've discovered the wonderful world of infosec and I'd rather fine tune my IT career, learn something interesting and tinker with that in my spare time. I love gaming, not just PC gaming or video gaming just all games, they stimulate me in ways that nothing else can really manage, but games now just aren't stimulating, that's definitely not a change in me, I still boot up old games and some modern indie games to get my fix, I've spent more time playing FTL and re-playing the old Theme Hospital than any other modern AAA game.

Games are shit these days, and if you don't think so then you're a filthy casual. Why? Because I say so, 20 years of non stop gaming and it literally has never been worse. I booted up the original Dungeon keeper the other day, it's literally better than anything I've played in the last 3 years.
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I'd have to agree too, it's all starting to sound like a broken record. I'm finding that I'd rather do other stuff than game at times, though I still do like getting on nightly and playing a game or two. It's gotten to the point where I play 1-2 hours of my PC a night, and maybe 1-2 hours a week on my handheld(s). Whereas before it was more like "ALL NIGHT GAMING MARATHON", every single night. I can't even remember the last time anyone cared enough to stay up all night playing any game.
 
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