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Core 2 Quad
- Thread starter dbu8554
- Start date
tmillszero1
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- May 11, 2011
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- 223
Intel is ramping down production on them (Unless production stopped already) Thus pricing is going up. My best guess anyhow.
Common consumer mistake number one - assuming a product price has anything to do with how much it costs to make.
Common technology consumer mistake - assuming old technology should be cheaper than new.
Product prices are driven by by what companies perceive the current sate of what the market will support, and this includes how much product they want to move.
Old technology is usually priced more because (from above, this is their perception of the market) companies are focused on making/selling new technology and their view on old technology is only to make a limited amount and price it more because anyone looking to buy old technology is going to pay more.
This pereception of the market also drives bleeding edge technology prices. The perception being that those looking to buy bleeding edge will almost pay anything, hence the typical high prices.
This pattern has often been best represented by RAM prices. In 2008, DDR3 was many hundred USD for a 2x4gb desktop set while DDR2 at the time was maybe 100 USD, yet DDR was at least twice as much as DDR2 at that time.
Again - cost of production nor how "new" a product is do not directly influence the end price, it is the company's PERCEPTION of the market and how to best price their goods to sell.
Common technology consumer mistake - assuming old technology should be cheaper than new.
Product prices are driven by by what companies perceive the current sate of what the market will support, and this includes how much product they want to move.
Old technology is usually priced more because (from above, this is their perception of the market) companies are focused on making/selling new technology and their view on old technology is only to make a limited amount and price it more because anyone looking to buy old technology is going to pay more.
This pereception of the market also drives bleeding edge technology prices. The perception being that those looking to buy bleeding edge will almost pay anything, hence the typical high prices.
This pattern has often been best represented by RAM prices. In 2008, DDR3 was many hundred USD for a 2x4gb desktop set while DDR2 at the time was maybe 100 USD, yet DDR was at least twice as much as DDR2 at that time.
Again - cost of production nor how "new" a product is do not directly influence the end price, it is the company's PERCEPTION of the market and how to best price their goods to sell.
The prices for CPU has gone down through the years. For example, I paid near $300 for an C2D E6600 in 2007, and the price of the C2Q were considerably higher when they first came out. i5 2500k came out at $250ish? That doesn't include the cost of 4 years of inflation either at roughly 9% either for the C2D and C2Q. Also, it really has nothing to do with what companies perceive either, especially when the product hit the EOL 2 generation of processors ago. The only real attraction of a C2Q is that if you are still running a 775 motherboard and/or have a C2D, you can easily swap/upgrade your system by just dropping in a processor. If you had no motherboard and just a processor, you would just sell the chip and buy the latest generation.
Lastly, RAM is a terrible example of this. It was roughly 3 years ago that DDR2 was extremely cheap because there was a huge supply and no where near enough demand to pick up the slack. The manufacturers stepped down production, prices for DDR2 skyrocketed, and since most have moved onto DDR3, prices of DDR2 are still relatively high when compared to the current generation. This was a special circumstance of oversupply than undersupply.
Lastly, RAM is a terrible example of this. It was roughly 3 years ago that DDR2 was extremely cheap because there was a huge supply and no where near enough demand to pick up the slack. The manufacturers stepped down production, prices for DDR2 skyrocketed, and since most have moved onto DDR3, prices of DDR2 are still relatively high when compared to the current generation. This was a special circumstance of oversupply than undersupply.
mzs_biteme
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2001
- Messages
- 1,595
In about a 2yrs, you'll find Core 2 Q's for ~$10 on eBay, just like the Pentium 4's and D's today...
But by then, they'll be as just as pointless...
But by then, they'll be as just as pointless...??? Sit in a few meetings will marketing and sales folks and you'll see that everything they do is based only on their perceptions. That aren't doing complex algorithms and using artificial intelligence to determine their product prices in those meetings.
The reason you paid $300 when you did is because that is what was Intel's perception of what the state of the market at that time. It was their best guess (perception) of how many they could sale at that price and how many they could produce and how that product fit into that market space.
RAM is a perfect example. The reason it was hugely cheap because of the oversupply was because companies perceived that the market was such that they could move more RAM, they upped production and then they got surprised when their PERCEPTION of the market was wrong, and they had to drop prices to move their inventory.
You need to get out of "marketing meetings" and see a production floor and the process. Prices of processors have gone down through the years even though inflation has gone up. Die shrinks, more efficencies, more expertise, growth in learning - call it whatever you want.
When IB comes out, of which the AMD BD cannot compete with, and the SB equivalent of an 2500k is the same price, it isn't a "marketing fail" even though it is a superior product in terms of a processor improvement and against the competition. I think you flaunt the word "perception," but it really has no added value to what you are trying to say.
When IB comes out, of which the AMD BD cannot compete with, and the SB equivalent of an 2500k is the same price, it isn't a "marketing fail" even though it is a superior product in terms of a processor improvement and against the competition. I think you flaunt the word "perception," but it really has no added value to what you are trying to say.
bigdogchris
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 19,080
I always saw it as that some people don't want to upgrade their entire systems. They just want to drop in a new CPU and have more processing power.
A few years ago I was helping someone upgrade their system. He wanted the fastest Athlon X2 they made for 939. The lower-mid range ones were all $10-20, except for the 3400 (which was the fastest 939 chip if I remember right) and it went for $3-400 used.
Supply and demand sir.
A few years ago I was helping someone upgrade their system. He wanted the fastest Athlon X2 they made for 939. The lower-mid range ones were all $10-20, except for the 3400 (which was the fastest 939 chip if I remember right) and it went for $3-400 used.
Supply and demand sir.
D
Deleted member 72990
Guest
I recently purchased a used Q9550 to replace my E8400 since I wanted the extra juice to play BF3 but didn't want to replace the whole system. I spent $170 for it (actually a good deal), minus what I sold my E8400 for ($80), so really only a $90 investment for significantly more power. I guess there are a lot of people out there like me who are in the same situation.
They were expensive to make due to the larger manufacturing process and there's a captive market of people who cannot upgrade an entire system, but just the CPU. Low RAM prices have been a nice motivator recently though. High HDD costs weren't as important.
IntelEnthusiast
Intel Enthusiast Team
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2011
- Messages
- 534
I believe all production on Intel® Core™ 2 Duo's and Intel Core 2 Quad's ended three years ago. So any of these processors that are out there are ones that people have had sitting around. Now since we are not making any of these and socket 775 had a long life and was very popular, demand is still high for the limited supply. I think it has been more than 2 years since there were any of these within our distribution channel.
Let's take a different look at your situation and pretend you sold it all and started over.
Split up your 4x2GB of DDR2 1066 into 2 kits of 2x2GB. Sell it on ebay and it would go for at least $40 for each set, so that's $80.
The motherboard is a good one and should sell for $50.
You sold the E8400 for $80
Add all this up and you are at $210.
You could get an i5 2400, z68 motherboard, and 8 GB of ram at newegg for $310.
All this may be cheaper elsewhere, but most who post here have access to newegg.
Note I picked an asrock motherboard and Patriot ram. The asrock board has decent reviews and the ram has a small rebate, but I am not including that at all.
So overall that is $100 for a really nice upgrade.
You spent $90 to just upgrade the cpu.
People seem to forget how much DDR2 can be sold for. It is about double the price of DDR3 right now, and that's used DDR2 prices.
D
Deleted member 72990
Guest
Good point... except I'm too lazy to sell off what I have. Good advice for the more patient among us though
A 2400 goes up to 3.4GHz with Turbo. That should definitely be faster than a Q9550 at 4GHz.
Dell optiplex desktops (with a few exceptions) basically skipped over LGA1156 going straight from LGA775 to LGA1155 sometime in early 2011.
Was there REALLY enough stock left in the channel for 2 years worth of dell's enterprise machines? I find that unlikely.
norcaljason
n00b
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2012
- Messages
- 5
Prices are still high because of demand.
Many people are upgrading their Duel Core 775 chips, to the Quads (typically Q9XXX's).
A Q9550/Q9650 is a great chip. Not only is it a true 4 core (like the i5 2500), it overclocks well and is close to the i5's in performance. You'd be hard pressed to notice the difference between an i5 and Q9550 in most daily use.
Many people are upgrading their Duel Core 775 chips, to the Quads (typically Q9XXX's).
A Q9550/Q9650 is a great chip. Not only is it a true 4 core (like the i5 2500), it overclocks well and is close to the i5's in performance. You'd be hard pressed to notice the difference between an i5 and Q9550 in most daily use.
The thing that really sucks is 775 is a dead platform now. Most of the older Quads run great still and still have plenty of life left in them, but you cannot buy a good motherboard now days for them unless you get something "used" off ebay or the like. Just looking at neweggs choices for 775 motherboards is depressing. All bottom of the barrel micro or mini atx boards, with hardly any features and shitty chipsets. My Q9550 still runs great, but I'd really like to have a new(er) DDR 3 board for it.
Could always make a fileserver/transcoding/HTPC out of an 775 platform. When IB comes out, I'll be retiring the old low power HTPC, replacing the Q6600 with the E6600 I have in storage, and make it the new fileserver/transcoder/HTPC. I can now turn off my main to save power, and the E6600 should have enough juice to transcode too.
I agree with others that it is supply and demand, and the fact that Intel is not making the processors anymore, yet the C2Q 9xxx processors were the most sought-after and highest-end S775 processors. I sold two of the Q9550 E0 processors on Ebay for over $200 each a couple months ago... even after Ebay fees I actually made money on the processors after running them for a couple years (bought these two at Microcenter originally for $169, I think). All about timing. Just parting out old systems to upgrade to newer technology (2600ks) because I wanted a cheaper more effective upgrade path. RAM scalability was my primary motivation for upgrade, otherwise I'd probably have kept the Q9550s.
My take on it is that It almost usually just costs more to upgrade old technology because supply dwindles. Anyone who remembers the Pentium "Overdrive" chips that worked in the 486 boards remembers how insanely expensive they were, and all things considered at the time, you did yourself a favor to move on to a true socket 7 board with more RAM and a true Pentium CPU for your money at the time.
Mike
My take on it is that It almost usually just costs more to upgrade old technology because supply dwindles. Anyone who remembers the Pentium "Overdrive" chips that worked in the 486 boards remembers how insanely expensive they were, and all things considered at the time, you did yourself a favor to move on to a true socket 7 board with more RAM and a true Pentium CPU for your money at the time.
Mike
All too true.
I'm currently pushing a Q6600 (until BridgeWalker gets built) - however, the very reason BridgeWalker got designed, let alone started on, is due to the poor (as in awful) choices left as far as DDR3 motherboards for what is basically a dead socket. The fact that DDR3 pricing is far lower than DDR2 was before the pricing for that started that trek north simply adds further insult to the Intel-Inflicted Injuries.
Ideally, I'd simply have Mom follow me to SandyBridge and i5-K (which is why I'm holding on to the entire parts listing, as it was designed to be case-neutral - we both have mid-tower ATX cases with top-mount PSU housings) - thanks to MC i5-K bundleage, it's gotten that cheap; however, Mom is even more of a cheapskate than I am.
(Why she gets away with it - her games that she plays are, at the most stressful, from the PopCap subsidiary of Electronic Arts; otherwise, she does nothing more taxing than Web browsing. The tag-team of Q6600 and G41 could actually be seen as overkill.)
Also true - however, a sour economy makes it darn difficult to justify.
If it weren't for MC bundleage, I couldn't justify it at all.
A Sandy Bridge-based computer is hardly expensive. You can pick up a Dell with an i3 for less than $500, and that is more than powerful enough for most people. If you're willing to go down to a Sandy Bridge Pentium or Celeron CPU, the price goes down even more. For anyone who needs a new computer, that isn't very difficult to justify.
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thank people who do not want to upgrade the rest of their system, or companies , they will buy a new CPU instead of rebuilding an entire system... take into fact time to reinstall the OS and all applications... buying the CPU to replace a dead one or slow one is cheaper.
Same reason DDR2 is expensive now... as other said.. production slow or stops, so there is limited supply.. thus increased price.
Same reason DDR2 is expensive now... as other said.. production slow or stops, so there is limited supply.. thus increased price.
D
Deleted member 72990
Guest
Definitely not a sad thing that the LGA 775 is out of production...but I am happy to be able to get a little more life out of my system by dropping in a Q9550 without all the hassle of a new computer. It was a 5 minute upgrade. It's like I have a whole new computer compared to the E8400 at the same speed. Still running all my games on Ultra - just mostly bottlenecked by my video card of all things. I'll definitely need to pick up a second 6950 when the prices come down.
Well if they are successfully selling at the higher price, I guess that is the reason for the high price. Price is not always related back to the cost of production but also to the supply/demand of the item. When a house price fluctuates such that it is now half the price of what it was during the bubble, it is not because the house quality has reduced but rather the demand for houses has reduced. This can be said for many other items that are popular at the time.
I have no idea if skt 775 processors are in demand at this time but I have seen in the past that many people would rather just upgrade their processor than go through a full cpu/mobo/ram upgrade, even if the latter is less expensive. This is especially so if it is the owner of a brand name PC who has never built a system before and has no idea how to upgrade a motherboard. So long as the upgrade sounds less expensive than buying a whole new PC, they often will opt for this, even if the processor is excessively priced. It happened with skt 939 for AMD and it seems to be happening with skt 775 for Intel.
I am just happy I got my 9550 when MC was selling them for $150 a few years back. For me it is still running fast enough.
I have no idea if skt 775 processors are in demand at this time but I have seen in the past that many people would rather just upgrade their processor than go through a full cpu/mobo/ram upgrade, even if the latter is less expensive. This is especially so if it is the owner of a brand name PC who has never built a system before and has no idea how to upgrade a motherboard. So long as the upgrade sounds less expensive than buying a whole new PC, they often will opt for this, even if the processor is excessively priced. It happened with skt 939 for AMD and it seems to be happening with skt 775 for Intel.
I am just happy I got my 9550 when MC was selling them for $150 a few years back. For me it is still running fast enough.
I'm still holding on to my q9550 as there are no games (that I play) that is worth upgrading for really. The most intensive game I have atm is BF3 and it is running fine on my system. For sure upgrading will warrant me more performance but it doesn't make sense to pay $400 on a new system just to get more fps in that 1 game. I also do not see any upcoming PC games in 2012 that requires immediate upgrading...which is sad...
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TheReproducer
Weaksauce
- Joined
- May 9, 2007
- Messages
- 116
I've got a similar dilemma, do I replace my Q6700? I've not pushed too far with overclocking but with a Freezer Pro cooler I'm not going to be able to get much more out anyway. I just want to know how much cheaper the i5 2500k is likely to get when Ivybridge comes out...
Acer_Sheep
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- May 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,201
This,
LGA775 was introduced in 2004 following by C2D in 2006 and C2Q in 2007. As I see it now, they were very popular and I believe very long lived compared to the platform life span back than. Just imagine using 1996 PC in 2004! What a pain, we are in much better situation currently.
Lol enjoy what you have it's not so bad.
3dfx_zombie
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2010
- Messages
- 154
Yes, it's real sad that you don't have to spend $400 because your games run so well...
But I know the feeling... upgrading used to be a spectacular event, doubling your frameratel!!! But nowadays it means a tiny 10% increase in some rare CPU limited games. Not worth the money.
And it will remain that way until the next-gen console games come out for the PC, early 2014 is my guess looking at the rumors.
The latest generations of multi-core CPU's have brought great improvements for rendering and encoding, it's just that games don't use their capabilities...
That is indeed the point that a lot of us are trying to make - the older quads (even, if not especially, Q6xxx) still run like champs.
Consider the lowly (if any Intel quad-core can be considered that) Q6600. It was made with a process that AMD make a lot of scathing jokes about - it's two E6600 CPUs sharing a single die. However, despite the not-a-true-quad design, the voluminous (8MB) of on-die cache (larger than that of i5-K, oddly enough) lets it make mincemeat of any data mountain that is a CPU cache-pig (software and OS installs, even, if not especially, Windows, are a prime example of a cache pig). Second, it's generally compatible (requiring, at most, a BIOS update) with the entire panoply of Intel's LGA775 chipsets - even the moldy-oldie CSM chipsets such as G41, let alone the P4x (and even some P3x) chipsets of its heyday.
As far as quad-core CPUs go, used Q6xxx stands alone; they typically cost less today than the motherboards they fit into.
The problem that used Q6xxx (and, to a lesser extent, even Q9xxx) has is not directly related to the capbility (or power) that they have - it's the rest of the hardware (primarily the motherboards and chipsets - especially if you are shackled to high-priced-by-comparison DDR2). Where the LGA775-based quads get screwed (as do their owners) has to do with both RAM types, and RAM pricing. If DDR2 merely cost twice as much as DDR3, it might not have been so bad - however, it's now easily three times DDR3 pricing, and headed north. (Both are due to increases in DDR2 pricing and DDR3 pricing continuing a slow steady fall.) I bought two DDR3-1333 4 GB sticks for all of $42USD - retail - earlier this year. Since then, the price has actually slid further south - the second pair *will* cost less than the first. (And that's even though neither set would necessarily be on sale.)
The RAM-pricing issue is what dragged me - rather forcefully - off the upgrade fence.
3.4 MHz is awfully demanding of that chip.