Cops Using Devices To Seize Funds On Prepaid Cards

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I am not an expert on the law but this doesn't seem legal at all. I know in some states that, if you are carrying an abnormally large amount of cash, that is probable cause. But pulling people over and taking money from a pre-paid account without a warrant or court order doesn't seem right at all.

The vehicle-mounted scanners are also capable of retrieving and storing limited account information from other cards as well, such as banking debit cards, credit cards and “payment account information from virtually any magnetic stripe card,” according to the website and patent documents of the device manufacturer, Texas-based ERAD Group Inc. ERAD stands for Electronic Recovery and Access to Data.
 
yes its illegal big time.. without a court a order and they should not be using this device in the vicinity of a high populated area
 
Driver: What seems to be the problem officer?
Officer: Oh, nothing. Do you have in your possession a debit, credit, or gift card?
Driver: Well, yes I do.
Officer: Please hand them over to me for inspection
Driver. Uh, sure. Would you like to see my license and registration?
Officer: No, I won't be needing those right now.
Driver hands over his credit card, debit card and his Starbucks gift card he received from his mother.
Officer: Thank you very much. I'll be back with your receipt.
 
bucket said:
Wow. You'd think they were stealing enough with that bullshit 'asset forfeiture' scam already. These union thugs are out of hand.
Click to expand...
What does a union have to do with it?


Also this:
"When the card is scanned by the officer to check the account balance, the system disguises the balance request as a typical vendor request". Isn't this felony wire fraud?
 
What the actual hell is this??

If the criminals can get away with LOADING the cards up with millions of dollars then they've gotten away. They should be CAUGHT when they load the money into the cards since THAT is where the paper trail is.

the-one1 said:
Driver: What seems to be the problem officer?
Officer: Oh, nothing. Do you have in your possession a debit, credit, or gift card?
Driver: Well, yes I do.
Officer: Please hand them over to me for inspection
Driver. Uh, sure. Would you like to see my license and registration?
Officer: No, I won't be needing those right now.
Driver hands over his credit card, debit card and his Starbucks gift card he received from his mother.
Officer: Thank you very much. I'll be back with your receipt.
Click to expand...

the-one1's scenario up there is exactly what they are trying to do which is a shortcut to actual detective work. Bunch of asses.
 
Civil forfeiture laws are unconstitutional but our "justice" system turns a blind eye to it, and now the gov has the right to take (steal) anything they want with a statement of cause, and even if proven wrong they don't have to give it back. It's long past time we vote out the status quo, and vote in people who will stand up for citizens.

Civil forfeiture in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(vote 3rd party, ANY 3rd party if you vote either R or D you are strengthening both the corrupt D and R parties)
 
Can't you just call the credit card company and tell them it was a fraudulent transaction and after several charge backs, the police department's account gets closed?
 
Man,... why does life always seem to get worse and worse, every time something is on the news?
 
Asset forfeiture is one of the grossest misuses of police and law enforcement offices common across all 50 states - the WaPo and Techdirt staffs do a great job covering it, but every time a positive step seems to happen in curbing its use, some county somewhere finds a way around that and the rest follow suit. Last year when the Post did multi-day coverage along with ProPublica and NPR, the "Justice" Department said they were greatly toning down their help towards local municipalities and then said they would stop altogether, leaving local offices to have to work together to set these kinds of things up... Just a few months later, however, it was found out that Justice cut back only for a short while and because of budget issues, not because of all the complaints - the new fiscal year started and they ramped right back up.

Not only do these activities target low-income and non-banked minorities the most, but getting your money back is practically impossible, no matter what sheriffs and the like say in regards to "if you can prove its yours, we'll give it back"

Feds Back on the Money Train
Try Getting it Back !
Someone Actually Did Get it Back
etc etc etc, just search Tech-Dirt & Asset Forfeiture for all you want to get angry
 
"Vincent said. “This isn’t solely about asset forfeiture. This isn’t about money. We’re not in the business of making money. We’re in the business of solving crimes.”

BULLSHIT. It's about the money. It's ALWAYS about the money. It's presumed guilt until proven innocence PLUS having to fight with the damn police to make them give you the money back.

CAF is nothing but legalized thievery.

Basically, if someone's going to travel with a bunch of these, store them in something shielded.
 
windianrecords said:
Asset forfeiture is one of the grossest misuses of police and law enforcement offices common across all 50 states - the WaPo and Techdirt staffs do a great job covering it, but every time a positive step seems to happen in curbing its use, some county somewhere finds a way around that and the rest follow suit. Last year when the Post did multi-day coverage along with ProPublica and NPR, the "Justice" Department said they were greatly toning down their help towards local municipalities and then said they would stop altogether, leaving local offices to have to work together to set these kinds of things up... Just a few months later, however, it was found out that Justice cut back only for a short while and because of budget issues, not because of all the complaints - the new fiscal year started and they ramped right back up.

Not only do these activities target low-income and non-banked minorities the most, but getting your money back is practically impossible, no matter what sheriffs and the like say in regards to "if you can prove its yours, we'll give it back"

Feds Back on the Money Train
Try Getting it Back !
Someone Actually Did Get it Back
etc etc etc, just search Tech-Dirt & Asset Forfeiture for all you want to get angry
Click to expand...
U.S.A! U.S.A! U.S.A!
 
Next, the people moving money:

  • use a device to read the mag stripe data and wipe the card data
  • email the data to someone else
  • use another device to write the data to a blank card

These ERAD devices will be obsolete in a couple years.
 
When mag stripe writers become outlawed, only outlaws will have mag stripe writers!!!
 
Next? didn't they lose a bunch when some guy ran off with all their money already?
 
My state can be so advanced in some ways and so screwed up in others. Now they have found a way to be both at the same time! Loved this part "Law enforcement officials say that civil asset forfeiture is essential in disrupting drug trafficking operations." They have been doing it for 40+ years of the "War on Drugs". Hasn't worked yet.
 
Good old Oklahoma. As the bard said, "Thank God for Oklahoma. The reason Texas doesn't fall into the Gulf of Mexico is because Oklahoma sucks..."
 
Dead Parrot said:
My state can be so advanced in some ways and so screwed up in others. Now they have found a way to be both at the same time! Loved this part "Law enforcement officials say that civil asset forfeiture is essential in disrupting drug trafficking operations." They have been doing it for 40+ years of the "War on Drugs". Hasn't worked yet.
Click to expand...
But... but... but... imagine if they didn't do it, drugs would be sold in dispensers! /s
 
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Oh for fuck sake. Another [H]yped up anti-cop story. Cops are not going to be pulling you over, taking your wallet and stealing the money off your Best Buy gift card. This is for when cops stop somebody and they've got 50 pre paid cards wrapped in a rubber band hidden under the seat and have no excuse or receipt for it. Even without these scanners cops can still confiscate a batch of cards like that with enough probable cause. A large amount of cash by itself is NOT justification for seizing it.

And stop acting like we're taking this money then hitting the strip clubs with it. It's counted, recorded, reviewed by my boss, his boss and then his boss then locked up in evidence. There it sits until it goes in front of a judge and he decides the disposition of it. If you've got 15,000 cash stuffed in the console of your 84 Nissan Sentara and can't give me a reason for it I can seize it. But then I have to go before a judge and I am the one that has to prove that I had probable cause to seize the money. If I'm wrong you get the money back and I can possibly be open to a lawsuit if I'm guilty of outright misconduct like racial profiling or something like that.

Stop acting like there is no judicial review of these cases. They ALL go before a judge and will in the case of these scanners. They will still have to go in front of a judge and prove to him they had legal justification for seizing your 50 pre-paid cards. If they can't you're getting your money back and you might wind up with some extra cash from a settlement.
 
MacLeod said:
Oh for fuck sake. Another [H]yped up anti-cop story. Cops are not going to be pulling you over, taking your wallet and stealing the money off your Best Buy gift card. This is for when cops stop somebody and they've got 50 pre paid cards wrapped in a rubber band hidden under the seat and have no excuse or receipt for it. Even without these scanners cops can still confiscate a batch of cards like that.

And stop acting like we're taking this money then hitting the strip clubs with it. It's counted, recorded, reviewed by my boss, his boss and then his boss then locked up in evidence. There it sits until it goes in front of a judge and he decides the disposition of it. If you've got 15,000 cash stuffed in the console of your 84 Nissan Sentara and can't give me a reason for it I can seize it. But then I have to go before a judge and I am the one that has to prove that I had probable cause to seize the money. If I'm wrong you get the money back and I can possibly be open to a lawsuit if I'm guilty of outright misconduct like racial profiling or something like that.

Stop acting like there is no judicial review of these cases. They ALL go before a judge and will in the case of these scanners. They will still have to go in front of a judge and prove to him they had legal justification for seizing your 50 pre-paid cards. If they can't you're getting your money back and you might wind up with some extra cash from a settlement.
Click to expand...

While what much of what you say is true. Don't ever think that cops are 100% legit. There are many crooked ones, but I would say it's a very small %
 
Nukester said:
While what much of what you say is true. Don't ever think that cops are 100% legit. There are many crooked ones, but I would say it's a very small %
Click to expand...

Absolutely! 10% of everybody are assholes. Sure there is an opportunity for a corrupt cop to abuse this. But there are safeguards in place to stop it. There are opportunities for corrupt bank tellers to do the same thing.

Again, I sieze your stuff but it's not gone forever. It's simply my suspecting you're up to criminal activity with it, I can articulate my reasons for thinking so and so I'm gonna hold onto it until we can go to court and convince a judge and it's 100% my responsibility to prove it.
 
MacLeod said:
Absolutely! 10% of everybody are assholes. Sure there is an opportunity for a corrupt cop to abuse this. But there are safeguards in place to stop it. There are opportunities for corrupt bank tellers to do the same thing.

Again, I sieze your stuff but it's not gone forever. It's simply my suspecting you're up to criminal activity with it, I can articulate my reasons for thinking so and so I'm gonna hold onto it until we can go to court and convince a judge.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with what you say. Good lord it seems like everything we do these days is BAM, instant news. Even if it really isn't news.
 
It's legal.
It's civil forfeiture. It's legal because there's years of precedence where police would find drugs or any other illegal substance and then take/steal anything else they wanted and sell it back to the public.
Cars, houses, computer equipment. Just about anything they can barely tie to the original crime.
So lets say your son got busted selling drugs. They'll take your house//car and whatever else he may or may not have used.
Parents' house seized after son's drug bust - CNN.com

But it's totally cool, since no one deals drugs and obviously having a relative who's living with you have their actions affect your livelihood is ok in the public eye.
 
Hypergreatthing said:
It's legal.
It's civil forfeiture. It's legal because there's years of precedence where police would find drugs or any other illegal substance and then take/steal anything else they wanted and sell it back to the public.
Cars, houses, computer equipment. Just about anything they can barely tie to the original crime.
So lets say your son got busted selling drugs. They'll take your house//car and whatever else he may or may not have used.
Parents' house seized after son's drug bust - CNN.com

But it's totally cool, since no one deals drugs and obviously having a relative who's living with you have their actions affect your livelihood is ok in the public eye.
Click to expand...

This is a slippery slope that does scare any parent.
 
MacLeod said:
Oh for fuck sake. Another [H]yped up anti-cop story. Cops are not going to be pulling you over, taking your wallet and stealing the money off your Best Buy gift card. This is for when cops stop somebody and they've got 50 pre paid cards wrapped in a rubber band hidden under the seat and have no excuse or receipt for it. Even without these scanners cops can still confiscate a batch of cards like that with enough probable cause. A large amount of cash by itself is NOT justification for seizing it.

And stop acting like we're taking this money then hitting the strip clubs with it. It's counted, recorded, reviewed by my boss, his boss and then his boss then locked up in evidence. There it sits until it goes in front of a judge and he decides the disposition of it. If you've got 15,000 cash stuffed in the console of your 84 Nissan Sentara and can't give me a reason for it I can seize it. But then I have to go before a judge and I am the one that has to prove that I had probable cause to seize the money. If I'm wrong you get the money back and I can possibly be open to a lawsuit if I'm guilty of outright misconduct like racial profiling or something like that.

Stop acting like there is no judicial review of these cases. They ALL go before a judge and will in the case of these scanners. They will still have to go in front of a judge and prove to him they had legal justification for seizing your 50 pre-paid cards. If they can't you're getting your money back and you might wind up with some extra cash from a settlement.
Click to expand...

Umm. Just because someone has cash doesn't mean they have to explain to you where it came from. Last I checked it isn't illegal to have cash. And then that person has to get a lawyer to deal with this illegal bull shit.
 
MacLeod said:
Oh for fuck sake. Another [H]yped up anti-cop story. Cops are not going to be pulling you over, taking your wallet and stealing the money off your Best Buy gift card. This is for when cops stop somebody and they've got 50 pre paid cards wrapped in a rubber band hidden under the seat and have no excuse or receipt for it. Even without these scanners cops can still confiscate a batch of cards like that with enough probable cause. A large amount of cash by itself is NOT justification for seizing it.

And stop acting like we're taking this money then hitting the strip clubs with it. It's counted, recorded, reviewed by my boss, his boss and then his boss then locked up in evidence. There it sits until it goes in front of a judge and he decides the disposition of it. If you've got 15,000 cash stuffed in the console of your 84 Nissan Sentara and can't give me a reason for it I can seize it. But then I have to go before a judge and I am the one that has to prove that I had probable cause to seize the money. If I'm wrong you get the money back and I can possibly be open to a lawsuit if I'm guilty of outright misconduct like racial profiling or something like that.

Stop acting like there is no judicial review of these cases. They ALL go before a judge and will in the case of these scanners. They will still have to go in front of a judge and prove to him they had legal justification for seizing your 50 pre-paid cards. If they can't you're getting your money back and you might wind up with some extra cash from a settlement.
Click to expand...

$225 on sparkles the clown
Reminderville
 
MacLeod said:
Absolutely! 10% of everybody are assholes. Sure there is an opportunity for a corrupt cop to abuse this. But there are safeguards in place to stop it. There are opportunities for corrupt bank tellers to do the same thing.

Again, I sieze your stuff but it's not gone forever. It's simply my suspecting you're up to criminal activity with it, I can articulate my reasons for thinking so and so I'm gonna hold onto it until we can go to court and convince a judge and it's 100% my responsibility to prove it.
Click to expand...

Let me google that for you

Safeguards, right... And, if 10% of all cops are assholes, then we are fucked. These are the people who can arrest people for anything, are given the benefit of the doubt, and even when video/audio evidence disproves them, are often considered in the right. And anybody who thinks otherwise are "anti-cop", as you put it.

These people have power over regular citizens. They must be held to a higher standard. And civil asset forfeiture is not constitutional, even if it's legal in some places. Law enforcement needs to stop using forfeiture to make their payrolls. Or buy shit they don't need.

And if I have $15k in my car, and a cop asks me what it's for, no answer I give him will keep him from stealing my money. Safeguards? Yeah, to keep me from getting my money back. F*ck civil asset forfeiture and anybody who thinks it's okay.
 
TwiceOver said:
Umm. Just because someone has cash doesn't mean they have to explain to you where it came from. Last I checked it isn't illegal to have cash. And then that person has to get a lawyer to deal with this illegal bull shit.
Click to expand...

Innocent Christian Musician Example
All told, the deputies found $53,000 in cash in Eh Wah's car that night. Muskogee County Sheriff Charles Pearson said he couldn't comment on the particulars of Eh Wah's case because of the open investigation, but it is clear from his deputy's affidavitthat the officers didn't like Eh Wah's explanation for how he got the cash. "Inconsistent stories," the affidavit notes. Despite the positive alert from the drug-sniffing dog, no drugs, paraphernalia or weapons were found. Just the cash.

They took Eh Wah to the police station for more questioning. They let him drive his own car there, with deputies' vehicles in front of and behind him the whole way. They interrogated him for several hours.

"I just couldn't believe it," Eh Wah said in an interview. "An officer was telling me that 'you are going to jail tonight.' And I don’t know what to think. What did I do that would make me go to jail? I didn’t do anything. Why is he saying that?"


Racial Profiling Example
"Rivers said the agents questioned passengers at random, asking for their destination and reason for travel. When one of the agents got to Rivers, who was the only black person in his car, according to witnesses, the agent took the interrogation further, asking to search his bags. Rivers complied. The agent found the cash — still in a bank envelope — and decided to seize it on suspicion that it may be tied to narcotics. River pleaded with the agents, explaining his situation and even putting his mother on the phone to verify the story."

Both those people gave a reason for the cash and it was still taken. It isn't sensationalized, it affects real people and their real lives, and many of those affected are on the lower rung of the social ladder, so god knows how many stories there are not being covered by the media.
 
TwiceOver said:
Umm. Just because someone has cash doesn't mean they have to explain to you where it came from. Last I checked it isn't illegal to have cash. And then that person has to get a lawyer to deal with this illegal bull shit.
Click to expand...

Ummm...no shit. However you pull some guy over in a 1971 Pinto, missing most of his teeth, holes in his shoes, the odor of weed all over him and shake all over the car and he's got $8,000 in 20's stuffed in an envelope in the glove box on him. You ask him where he got that and you get "um, er, I'm, um". Would a reasonable person think that guy was selling drugs? Yep. Would I be reasonable in seizing that cash until we can get in front of a judge to determine if this is in face drug money? I think so.

Now I stop some dude in the same car but he doesn't smell like a Cheech and Chong movie and has most of his teeth and when I ask him about the cash says he just sold a fishing boat to John Smith up on 123 Main Street and he's coming from that direction. In that case I have ZERO legal justification to seize that cash.
 
MacLeod said:
Absolutely! 10% of everybody are assholes. Sure there is an opportunity for a corrupt cop to abuse this. But there are safeguards in place to stop it. There are opportunities for corrupt bank tellers to do the same thing.

Again, I sieze your stuff but it's not gone forever. It's simply my suspecting you're up to criminal activity with it, I can articulate my reasons for thinking so and so I'm gonna hold onto it until we can go to court and convince a judge and it's 100% my responsibility to prove it.
Click to expand...

Yay, you get to pay for court to prove you have a right to your own property!

Sorry, there have been THOUSANDS of cases of abuse of civil forfeiture, and often the victim can not afford to fight the case, (you took their cash) so they lose by default.

It is an immoral process that should be illegal. But unfortunately under current law it is. (legal)
 
MacLeod said:
Ummm...no shit. However you pull some guy over in a 1971 Pinto, missing most of his teeth, holes in his shoes, the odor of weed all over him and shake all over the car and he's got $8,000 in 20's stuffed in an envelope in the glove box on him. You ask him where he got that and you get "um, er, I'm, um". Would a reasonable person think that guy was selling drugs? Yep. Would I be reasonable in seizing that cash until we can get in front of a judge to determine if this is in face drug money? I think so.

Now I stop some dude in the same car but he doesn't smell like a Cheech and Chong movie and has most of his teeth and when I ask him about the cash says he just sold a fishing boat to John Smith up on 123 Main Street and he's coming from that direction. In that case I have ZERO legal justification to seize that cash.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure neither person is required to answer your questions.
 
Pez said:
Let me google that for you

Safeguards, right... And, if 10% of all cops are assholes, then we are fucked. These are the people who can arrest people for anything, are given the benefit of the doubt, and even when video/audio evidence disproves them, are often considered in the right. And anybody who thinks otherwise are "anti-cop", as you put it.

These people have power over regular citizens. They must be held to a higher standard. And civil asset forfeiture is not constitutional, even if it's legal in some places. Law enforcement needs to stop using forfeiture to make their payrolls. Or buy shit they don't need.

And if I have $15k in my car, and a cop asks me what it's for, no answer I give him will keep him from stealing my money. Safeguards? Yeah, to keep me from getting my money back. F*ck civil asset forfeiture and anybody who thinks it's okay.
Click to expand...

You're dillusional. I cannot arrest you for anything I promise you that and I can also assure you we don't always get the benefit of the doubt. We have multiple superiors to answer to not to mention every fucking thing we do is reviewed by a prosecutor and a judge not to mention on camera. The idea we're a marauding band of thieves running around unchecked is, well, dillusional.

Also you're never going to have $15,000 cash in your car. But if you're the 1 in a million that has 15 grand in cash on you, that is NOT by itself justification for me to take the money.
 
The damning truth: "with civil forfeiture, those who have had their property seized are essentially guilty until proven innocent."

Arizona Civil Asset Forfeiture Laws Unconstitutional, Says ACLU Lawsuit

For the case in question, the asset (vehicle) was taken in 2013, the lawsuit is still not resolved.

The owner of the vehicle wasn't in it at the time, didn't know it was being used in a crime, and those are specifically listed reasons for the forfeiture to be rescinded.

But she still doesn't have her truck back, going on 2 years later, plus all the cost of court etc.

Sorry, this is inexcusable behavior by government, that should not be allowed.

Criminal forfeiture? Sure, I can agree with that.
Civil forfeiture? No. It is flat out IMMORAL for that to even happen at all. It is Theft, and you are defending your thievery to try to not feel guilty about it.
 
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