Copper Waterblocks & Aluminum Radiators

Q

quasimodem

Gawd
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Jan 13, 2005
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516
I read in another post that you shouldn't mix the two as it will cause problems, but where do you get copper radiators? I already have a nice copper waterblock, and I have an aluminum radiator but now I'm not sure I want to use them together....

Am I overly worried, or is it justified?

Thanx

QM
 
sometimes it works, unlikely though... black ice rads are copper apparently and a few others....
 
Actually copper radiators are the norm, it is considerably harder to find an aluminum radiator. Koolance is the only one I can think of off the top of my head that still uses aluminum radiators. Some radiators might have aluminum fins, but the tubing and what the water comes in contact with is either copper or brass.
 
This is an easily justifiable concern.

I never paid TOO much attention to the threat of galvanic corrosion (except to make a battery using zinc and copper one sunday morning for fun) until I had to clean up a customer's water loop 2 weeks ago.

The anodized coating on the aluminum reservoir (that normally protects against such corrosion) had failed in a ring around the barb threading... The anodization chipped off, exposing regular aluminum.

The entire system was literally fucked. I had to soak the radiator in vinegar which did nothing... So I upped the ante and filled it with a 25% concentration of Hydrochloric acid (which stripped some of the protective coating off my marble countertop :p) to finally get all the green/grey crap out.

The waterblock (tdx), sadly, didn't make it. and the aquatube sprung a leak and destroyed the motherboard (it was mounted on the roof of the case).

The best way to prevent corrosion, if you've got both copper and aluminum, is to electrically isolate the aluminum piece from common ground. If you've got an aluminum radiator, as long as it's not touching ANY other metal piece in the case (IE, it's got plastic screws, or some neoprene between it and the part of the case it's mounted to) you'll be fine. Even a connection of 1 square mm is enough to start corrosion.
 
So long as you use a anti-corrosive fluid additive to your distilled water you shouldn't have any problem. Cars have had mixed metals in their cooling systems for years without any problems. There are a lot of these type fluid additives on the market.

quasimodem said:
I read in another post that you shouldn't mix the two as it will cause problems, but where do you get copper radiators? I already have a nice copper waterblock, and I have an aluminum radiator but now I'm not sure I want to use them together....

Am I overly worried, or is it justified?

Thanx

QM
Click to expand...
 
Top Nurse said:
So long as you use a anti-corrosive fluid additive to your distilled water you shouldn't have any problem. Cars have had mixed metals in their cooling systems for years without any problems. There are a lot of these type fluid additives on the market.
Click to expand...

AC fluid (one of the best) has it's own problems though...

Cars use much higher concentrations of these chemicals.

Isolating the components from ground is the most important step to preventing this.
 
I totally agree that isolating components from an electrical circuit eliminates the problem.

So what is the problem with AC Fluid?

Arcygenical said:
AC fluid (one of the best) has it's own problems though...

Cars use much higher concentrations of these chemicals.

Isolating the components from ground is the most important step to preventing this.
Click to expand...
 
We've seen some photos of pretty excessive gunking from loops using AC Fluid. Whether or not that was caused by using excessive amounts of the stuff, or whether in combination with something else, problems arise, is questionable. It's also fairly expensive for what it is (compare $9 for 50ml of AC Fluid at Skarka to $3 for 60ml of Pentosin at Petra's).

If the OP is looking for performance, I suggest getting a copper-based radiator, such as a Black Ice or Thermochill. Although I prefer Thermochill personally, the Black Ice radiators are cost-effective and offer good performance.
 
Top Nurse said:
I totally agree that isolating components from an electrical circuit eliminates the problem.

So what is the problem with AC Fluid?
Click to expand...

It gunks up pretty badly though impingement grids... According from the 2-3 pics I've seen..

Quite possibly isolated issues, but nonetheless... Not something I'd want to risk :)
 
Arcygenical said:
It gunks up pretty badly though impingement grids... According from the 2-3 pics I've seen..

Quite possibly isolated issues, but nonetheless... Not something I'd want to risk.
Click to expand...

Is this one of the pic's you are talking about? If so then it wasn't the AC Fluid that caused the problem as you can see here.

XT.jpg
 
nope... It was a newer pic... I do remember that thread though.

Same block (Cuplex XT) but with only a 2% concentration of AC fluid...

Gah, I wish I had time to search for it right now :(
 
It's been six months since I fired up my water cooling system (TT). With Aluminum rad and copper water blocks. The whole system now contains all kinds of salts that have been formed as a result of galvanic corrosion ! And you can see where the copper is being attacked, through the Acrylic top's.
I used TT's glycol mix as a cooling medium but it didn't help much.

So now I'll be replacing the whole system do to my lack of knowledge when I first went to water cooling.
Live and learn!
 
:O. i had exactly the same problem (im using a Tt system) but luckily i saw it before it got to bad. changing the rad has stopped it but ill get a new loop anyway. its really bad Tt sells a system thats almost guaranteed to corrode.
 
I got a system running currently with gold, aluminum, and copper for over three years now (original Koolance Exos). NO corrosion problems evident...

I use distilled water and 10% of Hy-Per Lube Super Coolant . No cracked reservoirs, good cooling, and no corrosion. :D
 
Just do a search for AC Slime, you will come up with a thread with about 4-5 people complaining of slime from AC Fluid. Most said they were using just plain AC fluid and distilled water, though they may have been using too much.

Here is the pick you were searching for Arcygenical.

slime.jpg
 
Arcygenical said:
Is the aluminum isolated electrically?
Click to expand...

Don't know off hand, but I need to take it apart again to blow the dust off so I will see and get back to you. However, I do believe the aluminum radiator is not connected to the electrical system.
 
If radiator is touching the case, it's part of the electric system (ground). If radiator isn't touching case, but one of waterblocks' mounts touches a ground ring on mobo, radiator is part of electric system... radiator > water > copper block > mounting hardware > groundring on mobo... follow the conductive path.

To isolate, all metal mounting hardware should have nylon washers between itself and the mobo... rad should have isolating washers between rad and case, and screwhead and case on the outside...
 
Marci said:
If radiator is touching the case, it's part of the electric system (ground). If radiator isn't touching case, but one of waterblocks' mounts touches a ground ring on mobo, radiator is part of electric system... radiator > water > copper block > mounting hardware > groundring on mobo... follow the conductive path.

To isolate, all metal mounting hardware should have nylon washers between itself and the mobo... rad should have isolating washers between rad and case, and screwhead and case on the outside...
Click to expand...

So, the "solution" and the common ground can be through the exact same medium (IE the fluid?)

I was under the impression that there had to be a seperate electrical pathway (other than the fluid) connecting the cathode and the anode together...

Additionally, I wonder if the top of the IHS is grounded? I'd imagine it's not, but I'll be checking next time I build my loop. I'm thinking of adding an aluminum passive radiator in.
 
Top Nurse said:
I got a system running currently with gold, aluminum, and copper for over three years now (original Koolance Exos). NO corrosion problems evident...

I use distilled water and 10% of Hy-Per Lube Super Coolant . No cracked reservoirs, good cooling, and no corrosion. :D
Click to expand...

koolance gets around the problem of using copper blocks and an aluminum radiator by gold plating the copper bits, thus stoping the reaction. try tapping a tiny hole about the size of the head of a pin anywhere in the gold plating and see what happens :p
 
ghost6303 said:
koolance gets around the problem of using copper blocks and an aluminum radiator by gold plating the copper bits, thus stoping the reaction. try tapping a tiny hole about the size of the head of a pin anywhere in the gold plating and see what happens :p
Click to expand...

Makes you wonder... Gold plating? Or use a copper radiator? Hrm.

I can't imagine gold plating is much cheaper than using a copper radiator...
 
im too lazy to search for the numbers again, but im pretty sure gold also has less heat conductivity then copper. so its like coating a nice copper block with an insulator. koolance equals souper smart
 
ghost6303 said:
im too lazy to search for the numbers again, but im pretty sure gold also has less heat conductivity then copper. so its like coating a nice copper block with an insulator. koolance equals souper smart
Click to expand...

You are correct, gold is a bad conductor of heat. The really moronic thing is they also coat the contact side of their blocks with gold. That makes no sense.
 
Erasmus354 said:
You are correct, gold is a bad conductor of heat. The really moronic thing is they also coat the contact side of their blocks with gold. That makes no sense.
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A full 100W m^-1k^1

That's alot, like... literally a 25% loss for using gold.
 
Don't forget the gold in only microns thick, so I doubt it will have much if any effect on the thermal conductivity through the block.
 
Lox said:
Don't forget the gold in only microns thick, so I doubt it will have much if any effect on the thermal conductivity through the block.
Click to expand...

Right, but it's like building a cabinet to store 1 book. A difficult solution to a very easy problem.
 
Arcygenical said:
Right, but it's like building a cabinet to store 1 book. A difficult solution to a very easy problem.
Click to expand...

I agree, however it could be a cheaper solution for people like me that have a aluminum rad built into their case!
I can't seem to find a copper rad with the same dimensions as the one in my TT Armour LCS case. And I don't have the time right now to rip my system apart to see if I can mod it to fit another rad. Very busy and the ^%$# CPU block is cracked and leaking as I type this.
Has anyone got any comments on how well the koolance CPU/VGA blocks work,fit, etc.?

Thanks a lot peeps.
 
Top Nurse said:
I got a system running currently with gold, aluminum, and copper for over three years now (original Koolance Exos). NO corrosion problems evident...

I use distilled water and 10% of Hy-Per Lube Super Coolant . No cracked reservoirs, good cooling, and no corrosion. :D
Click to expand...

that is the EXACT same additive I used in my custom alum HD blocks (NON anodized) with AL/Cu swiftech CPU block, Al swiftech chipset blocks, and copper rad system. Ran semi-passive 24/7 for 18 months, and guess what?

Not a HINT of corrosion when i retired the system. I get such a laugh at the "OH NOES! YOU MIXTED TEH METALS!!:eek:" crowd.:p
 
topcat989 said:
that is the EXACT same additive I used in my custom alum HD blocks (NON anodized) with AL/Cu swiftech CPU block, Al swiftech chipset blocks, and copper rad system. Ran semi-passive 24/7 for 18 months, and guess what?

Not a HINT of corrosion when i retired the system. I get such a laugh at the "OH NOES! YOU MIXTED TEH METALS!!:eek:" crowd.:p
Click to expand...

And I get such a laugh from people that don't understand corrosion, a 10% mix isn't enough to prevent corrosion. If you were getting no corrosion, a 1:1 mix of that super coolant would probably be required (minimum 30%). There's another reason for it. How were your blocks attached?

I never used to care about corrosion until I had to clean out a customer's water-loop 2 weeks ago. The anodization around the barb inlet to his aqua-tube failed and the entire system just got trashed. I had to soak the pieces in dilute HCL and repaint them. Now I'm very interested.

**EDIT** still, I do really like HyperLube. It's one of the only additives that's ever DROPPED my temperatures any.
 
Arcygenical said:
So I upped the ante and filled it with a 25% concentration of Hydrochloric acid (which stripped some of the protective coating off my marble countertop :p) to finally get all the green/grey crap out.
Click to expand...

There is no protective coating on marble countertops. Marble is a very soft rock (basically limestone) and you actually etched the surface with the acid. Even pickle juice will do this. Only way to repair is to polish it out. (like lapping a IHS)
 
stevo.k said:
There is no protective coating on marble countertops. Marble is a very soft rock (basically limestone) and you actually etched the surface with the acid. Even pickle juice will do this. Only way to repair is to polish it out. (like lapping a IHS)
Click to expand...

Yeah... I meant granite. I wasn't really thinking about it too much when I posted.

I repolished the surface (seeing as I installed and cut the countertop myself) and all is good again.
 
Erasmus354 said:
Just do a search for AC Slime, you will come up with a thread with about 4-5 people complaining of slime from AC Fluid. Most said they were using just plain AC fluid and distilled water, though they may have been using too much.

Here is the pick you were searching for Arcygenical.

slime.jpg
Click to expand...

I would hazard to guess this mess is algae related. A good inexpensive way of preventing what we call "bug growth" in the industry is to use good old household bleach. Mix 5-10 ml of household bleach to 1000 ml of coolant. If you have a reservoir your system may be exposed to air so you will have to add a few ml of bleach to the system once in a while to prevent the bugs from growing.

Lox
 
Lox said:
I would hazard to guess this mess is algae related. A good inexpensive way of preventing what we call "bug growth" in the industry is to use good old household bleach. Mix 5-10 ml of household bleach to 1000 ml of coolant. If you have a reservoir your system may be exposed to air so you will have to add a few ml of bleach to the system once in a while to prevent the bugs from growing.

Lox
Click to expand...

That's actually not such a good idea. See this article on why not
 
Lox said:
I would hazard to guess this mess is algae related. A good inexpensive way of preventing what we call "bug growth" in the industry is to use good old household bleach. Mix 5-10 ml of household bleach to 1000 ml of coolant. If you have a reservoir your system may be exposed to air so you will have to add a few ml of bleach to the system once in a while to prevent the bugs from growing.

Lox
Click to expand...

Its not bug related, AC Fluid kills anything that would grow into the loop. It is AC Fluid related.
 
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