Cooling System & PSU Unit Query

[thermal]

Hi Guys,

After having a look through the forum the other day for the first time I saw that there was quite some expertise around modding and cooling, etc on this forum so decided to join
I just bought myself a new case but it has no PSU, cooling system, mobo or anything. This is the case:

Thermaltake Kandalf VA9000SWA series :

Link: http://www.thermaltake.com/xasercase/kandalf/swa/va9000swa.htm

Now what i'm planning to do with the case is use it quite intensively and use it as a 'pretty storage' system also. But I am not sure what PSU and cooling I will need. Preferably as quiet/noiseless as possible.

The comp will need to be able to handle 10+ HDD's (in the long term at least), an Intel P4 3,x processor, and a relatively powerful graphics card (no cd drives, floppies, or anything else). Just those.

For the PSU I was thinking of the Thermaltake Fanless PSU Series (W0029, W0050) :

Link: http://www.thermaltake.com/purepower/menu.htm

That should be enough no? 350W? A HDD needs about 12-13W no? so when doing the maths for 10-12 hdd's this should be no problem right..or is this just in theory? Adding to that only a processor, graphics card and some ram that should be fine yea?
HDDs specs would be 400gb seagate or hitachi drives and 500gb+ drives which will come out later (I'm planning to add more hdd's as time goes on).


Moving on from the power consumption to the cooling...even though the cooling unit above alone is quite good I've heard..will it be enough to cool down so many hdd's? If not I was thinking of adding a liquid cooled unit:

BigWater- 12cm Liquid Cooling System :

Link: http://www.thermaltake.com/watercooling/cl-w0005bigwater/cl-w0005.htm

Oh and from what I've seen in pictures, there are 2 'liquid pipes' coming out of the cooling unit yea? Is it possible to split this into 20+ channels, lets say if I want to cool down the CPU with this..and also each of the HD's using one of these Koolance HD coolers:

Koolance HD-50-L06 (HD) :

Link: http://www.koolance.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=177



Btw...which mobo would you guys recommend for this, specs/requirements for the mobo:

Specs/requirements:

* relatively cheap
* needs SATA controller - to be able to accomodate 10+ hdd's in the LT
* designed for an Intel processor (except Celeron) and being able to accomodate faster, better processors in the future
* needs PCI express or some fast slot to be able to accomodate a video card for DV-in DV-out <-- not sure if that has to be taken into consideration to get a mobo but just in case it does
* that the FSB of the RAM/CPU is also relatively high to be able to accomodate future 1066mhz+ RAM modules/processors
* and of course the standard USB 2.0 / Firewire, etc.


Thanks already for reading this post and for any help, even if its just to answer one of my questions

Thermal

 

[DFI Daishi]

350 watts is nowhere near enough for that many HDDs. you looking at something high-end to fuel those buggers, because PSUs don't just give you their full output wherever you happen to need it, they break it up and say x amps available for 3.3V applications, y for 5V and z for 12V.

350 watts is enough for 2 HDD, 2 optical, network, USB, RAM and processor, firewire, graphics card, but not a whole lot else. you will most likely need something big in the 500 - 600 watt range.

erermax puts more output on the 12 V rail than the competitors, and HDDs draw of the 5V and the 12V, so out of the majors, you might want an enermax supply. PCP&C, enermax, fortron and antec are the brands that you should probably look into.

i don't keep track of intel boards, but 10 SATA ports onboard? methinks that you are going to have some trouble finding that. not a problem if you are running them all as seperate drives: just put in a PCI SATA controller to supplement the onboard controller. if you want raid, you're looking at a high-end and expensive SATA-raid control card with 10 ports. likely an adaptec.

10 HDDS and a prescott in a little case like that is a thermal nightmare. if you really have the budget that a project like this needs, then you should look into a soho server case, or the like.

 

[thermal]

Thanks for the input Daishi,

Do you know of any noiseless/fanless 500-600W PSU? Or would there exist a liquid coolin solution (perhaps dual liquid cooling) which could be enough for the whole case?

Reason I chose this case is because I quite like its design so I'll be sticking with that. The SATA controller issue seems to be quite a problem though. Isn't it possible to link one drive to the next?

What I want to have is that all drives appear as one drive, and when I add another drive, that this is also included in the ONE drive - so some type of RAID system I guess?

With IDE is it possible to link up all the drives on a more simple mobo without the need for extra expansion ports/slots, whatever..? I would prefer SATA though for the faster transfer speeds between the drives...

My knowledge on this subject isn't that great so the more extra input the better

 

[DFI Daishi]

noiseless PSU in that output range? only one brand comes to mind, and i trust them about as far as i can reach with a hammer. http://www.silenx.com/ i'm not kidding. i don't reccomend these guys, for a lot of reasons. one would be that the fan control circuitry on their biggest unit is known to make an annoying high-pitched whine.

just how loud do you think a good PSU is, though? comparing a PSU that is new, or is in good condition, to even the noise of a CPU fan or that many HDDs spinning.......i doubt that you would even notice an enermax, or antec (which i have tried first hand) and i understand that the fortron and PC power and cooling units are about the same.

please don't get a watercooled PSU, though, it's a bad idea. most of them are cheap PSUs modded by some company and then re-sold without proper engineering or saftey considerations taken into account. there was a reputable post on that subject in the PSU forum a while back.

with SATA, you cannot link one drive to the next. each drive gets it's own cable, it's own ports and it's own little share of the controller. with IDE it is possible to link a maximum of 2 drives to each cable/controller. usually two controllers per card/board.

if you want a real daisy chain, then you're looking at U320 SCSI or the like. very high end, limited market, expensive and TOP performing hardware.

to have the native intelligence to be able to progressively add drives to a raid stripe-set.........i do not think that i have ever heard of a controller that can do that. if it exists, it is specialty, expensive, and probably not compatible with regular PCI or PCI-E interfaces.

adding many seperate drives, one at a time, not in a raid set it totally possible. it's the raid that makes this highly improbable.

there is a HDD forum for you to discuss this kind of material. it is not mainstream.

 

[DFI Daishi]

post your watercooling questions in the watercooling forum, BTW.

there is no real reason to watercool you drives, and that pump/kit you're looking at is nowhere near big enough if you do decide to watercool your drives.

a good case, intended for use with that many drives, should have the drive racks set up with a space in between each drive, and cooling fans to keep the drives adequately cool. my raptors don't often get above 35C sitting in a plain old drive cage with fan and filter taking air from the front of my case.

 

[thermal]

Thanks for the help Daishi. In that case I think I might forget about liquid cooling altogether and just go for a 500-600W PSU and get a standard Thermaltake drive bay kit: 3 x 3.5" HDD module with 12cm LED fan, would probably be 3 of those then. That will probably end up cheapest and should be enough no? Btw..this would result in the possibility of 3 of those bay kits (3 drives each) = 9 hdd's...would there still be space some how to fit in a couple more ?

Tnx

Thermal

 

[thermal]

For the PSU, would this one be enough:

http://www.thermaltake.com/purepower/w005758twv500/w005758twv500.htm

 

[DFI Daishi]

dude, you posted the link that answers your HDD question already. read the manufacturer info.

if you put three of those HDD cages in the front of that case, you only have one bay in the front free for use with an optical drive, or the included bay-mount display.

if you use the 6 internal 3.5 HDD bays, and one of those modular HDD cages, then......got it?

have you resolved how it is that you are going to run that many drives? how you are going to raid them, if at all? you might want to work out that "minor" detail first.

as for the PSU, it was not on my reccomended list, and it was not there for a reason. you seem to be totally bent on only buying from thermaltake, so do whatever the hell you want.

i'm not responding to this thread again.

 

[thermal]

Nah not bend towards Thermaltake at all...I personally quite like that case and haven't seen any manufacturer bring out a nicer one in my eyes. As for the PSU, I only had a look at it since I'd assume it would work well with a Thermaltake case..of course if other PSU's are better and fit fine in the box then thats good too.

And no I haven't resolved how to RAID the drives...so any help on that from anybody would be much appreciate also - what I want is the final result to be that all drives appear as one big HD.

Btw..you seem a little tensed up Daishi..relax this is no life dependent decision or anything to feel bad or annoyed about.

Oh and the reason I asked the question as to how many drives would still fit could be that there may be another solution other than 3x3 drive bay kits...perhpas something like a 4in3 module like some Stacker cases have (but then again this would not be too great to dissipate all the heat) from so many drives packed that closely together I'd think.

 

[1quicksi]

I do not know of any SATA setups that will be able to handle the amount of drives you are looking to handle. However with SCSI this can easily be accomplished using a high end controller and a sub chasis. I know my Compaq server at home (DL380) with U2 sub-chasis and 5300 controller I can add remove drives ont he fly (hot swap) and those I add are automaticly striped and added to the array.

This IS NOT a cheap way of doing things. I think the controller alone was around $700+ if I remember right.