Controller > Keyboard/Mouse

[Gregor7777]

Head to Head

Above is a link to an article from Sage Merrill regarding controller balancing for Shadowrun, which will be the first Live Anywhere game where PC gamers and 360 gamers will be able to directly compete.

Some quotes:

So, what actually happened when we played our first cross-platform game? The controller players trounced the mouse/keyboard players. It wasn’t even close; the mouse players got stomped on. Over and over. So what happened? Did the mouse players just suck? Or was the controller actually a superior aiming device?

Again, we turn off all the targeting assistance stuff for the mouse, and test. It’s pretty even. The mouse players are a little better at long range combat, but the controller players are better close in.

So, in the end the mouse is better at aiming and the controller is better at gaming. No big surprise since that’s exactly what they were designed to do.

Good read, not only am I looking forward to this as a Shadowrun title (the SNES and to a lesser extent the Genesis titles were amazing RPG's), but it will be sick to see the showdown of PC gamer vs Console gamer.

The title isn't my opinion, just meant to grab attention. Personally I prefer kb/mouse because it's what I "grew up on".

 

[Kabob]

Hrm, interesting, I still think that the possible twitch movements of a mouse are a big advantage though.

 

[Gregor7777]

Hrm, interesting, I still think that the possible twitch movements of a mouse are a big advantage though.

I would think so as well.

 

[dotK]

I fail to see how the controller is "better at gaming" when they compensated for its limitations by adding auto aim. Sounds more like "the console version is easier to play."

 

[GMoney42392]

i have to try this out on both gamepad and mouse before i jump to any conclusions, but i can hardly imagine an analog stick, no matter how fine-tuned, being as accurate as a mouse.

 

[Slade]

The "auto aim" says it all. If all I have to do is "get it in the general vicinity" of the other player then pull the trigger then you've gained an incredible advantage.

It's only better because it was designed to be better. Add that one little trick to a mouse and see what happens.

 

[Gregor7777]

The "auto aim" says it all. If all I have to do is "get it in the general vicinity" of the other player then pull the trigger then you've gained an incredible advantage.

It's only better because it was designed to be better. Add that one little trick to a mouse and see what happens.

My beef is this: I've long held that the mouse dominates in FPS for many of the reasons stated.

But, if when this game comes out and there are modifications to the controller such as auto aim and the players are even, the controller !!!!!!s will never let up on me.

EDIT: the word f_a_n_b_o_y_s is restricted? lol

 

[theNoid]

I was at E3 this year, and I watched first hand as Controller 360 gamers were owning PC gamers 17 rounds to 4 on Shadowrun. Unpossible right ? Wrong, Shadowrun uses the exact same controll scheme as Halo 2.

For every CS whore out there, there is probably 5 Halo 2 whores. PC gamers completely underestimate console gamers when it comes to FPSers.

Shadowrun will be an eye opener for most pc gamers.

edit. Come on, outsmart the filter .. fan boy, just a space can do that

 

[Gregor7777]

I was at E3 this year, and I watched first hand as Controller 360 gamers were owning PC gamers 17 rounds to 4 on Shadowrun. Unpossible right ? Wrong, Shadowrun uses the exact same controll scheme as Halo 2.

For every CS whore out there, there is probably 5 Halo 2 whores. PC gamers completely underestimate console gamers when it comes to FPSers.

Shadowrun will be an eye opener for most pc gamers.

Yes, but it's on their turf (console gamer). It seems the rules will be stacked to even the playing field.

edit. Come on, outsmart the filter .. fan boy, just a space can do that

lol

 

[dotK]

I was at E3 this year, and I watched first hand as Controller 360 gamers were owning PC gamers 17 rounds to 4 on Shadowrun. Unpossible right ? Wrong, Shadowrun uses the exact same controll scheme as Halo 2.

For every CS whore out there, there is probably 5 Halo 2 whores. PC gamers completely underestimate console gamers when it comes to FPSers.

Shadowrun will be an eye opener for most pc gamers.

edit. Come on, outsmart the filter .. fan boy, just a space can do that

Yeah it's possible, it's not like the 360 gamers actually had to bother with aiming.

 

[independantvariable]

I was at E3 this year, and I watched first hand as Controller 360 gamers were owning PC gamers 17 rounds to 4 on Shadowrun. Unpossible right ? Wrong, Shadowrun uses the exact same controll scheme as Halo 2.

For every CS whore out there, there is probably 5 Halo 2 whores. PC gamers completely underestimate console gamers when it comes to FPSers.

Shadowrun will be an eye opener for most pc gamers.

edit. Come on, outsmart the filter .. fan boy, just a space can do that

Ahh! Deja Vu
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1134136&page=3

And I could have swore I saw the exact same reply before...

But anyhow if you seriously believe that pc gamers are for an "eye opening" because PC gamers underestimate console FPSers than your crazy. It really doesn't come down to how many halo 2 pros there are the mouse is better for aiming (period).

 

[Gregor7777]

Ahh! Deja Vu
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1134136&page=3

And I could have swore I saw the exact same reply before...

???

 

[kumquat]

Wait wait... console users get the benefit of AUTO-AIM!?

Jesus.

On another note, after playing Zelda and Elebits, I'd *love* to have a Nunchuck in my left hand instead of a keyboard when playing an FPS.

Nunchuck + mouse would be an insane combination.

 

[Gregor7777]

Wait wait... console users get the benefit of AUTO-AIM!?

Jesus.

.

I think they are saying that mouse users will also have a form of the auto aim that the console gamers have (which is present in many FPS console games) to make things even.

 

[kumquat]

I think they are saying that mouse users will also have a form of the auto aim that the console gamers have (which is present in many FPS console games) to make things even.

How stupid.

Drop auto-aim entirely for everyone.

Also of note is the fact that you can use the 360 controller on Windows for an FPS. A player could use each for two weeks and see which they're better with.

 

[prtzlboy]

I think they are saying that mouse users will also have a form of the auto aim that the console gamers have (which is present in many FPS console games) to make things even.

Better re-read the end that article. Mouse users get no benefits, controller users get a bit of auto-aim.

I think without any compensation whatsoever on either side, the mouse user would come out on top. But, alas, it doesn't look like we'll get to see that situation quite yet, and we'll just have to continue arguing about it

 

[kelbear]

This article has been posted in general gaming at least 4 times by my count(posted twice myself too), and my count started quite awhile after the article itself was posted so I'm sure it was already posted before that as well. For example: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1129363

And from the article: "No one is disputing the fact that the mouse is a superior aiming device for the standard shooter, but in our game its not all about how fast can you get your crosshair on the head of your opponent. That’s been done, and frankly is not all that exciting anymore. "

And yet this article keeps getting referenced as an example for how controllers beat kb/m. While the actual source itself says explicitly that's not what they're saying.

What they're saying here is that Shadowrun will let PC players and console gamers play together, and that they've done all this work in order to remove the advantage of kb/m in this game.

Note also that twitch aiming, a big feature of the mouse is limited in this game by accuracy penalties for moving the crosshairs quickly. This is in addition to the auto-aim given to console players. The result is that both can play and have fun, which is more important than some holy war of one interface vs. the other.

 

[Naldo]

Is there really even a desire between pc and console gamers to play against each other?

Only thing thats going to happen is one side is going to dominate, and the other side will complain that they have X advantage (PC Gamer: "OMG AUTO-AIM!", Xbox Gamer: "OMG HAX!") and stop playing against them\stop playing the game and things will just be segregated again. Plus, the pc gamers are really the only ones with anything to prove from the compition.