Contemplating Vista?

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sniper991122

Supreme [H]ardness
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Alright so I'd rather install Vista than XP since I'd primarily be using windows for playing WoW, browsing the web and talking on AIM... if I did use vista as my primary OS i'd be dual booting with gentoo so if vista couldn't handle something i'd just switch to gentoo to get it done...

I've done quite a bit of reading about Vista on here but its kind of hard to really get an idea without trying it or specifically asking...

I'd be using the e6400 c2d, the gigabyte ds3 as well as a sata hard drive, X800 XT and your usual dvd dual layer burner and 2x512mb ddr2 533...

also be doing some oc'ing but I dont think vista would effect that... any suggestions?
 
Looks like you've got everything you'll need for a basic Vista system. I would recommend adding another GB of RAM (you'll find that it helps in Gentoo as well, I'd wager) and maybe switching to a DX10 card when they become affordable.
 
Most definitely: 1GB of RAM will hurt that machine's performance. It's acceptable, but if you're serious about using Vista, get more RAM, period. Another 512 will work, but it seems that the "sweet spot" for Vista is currently 2GB on the nose for most anyone.
 
Thats the goal in the next couple weeks, I just got done buying an antec p180, antec Neo HE 550w PSU, gigabyte DS3 motherboard, e6400 c2d and a ninja scythe hsf for oc'ing...

my wallet needs at least 2 weeks to recover but my next choice is getting 1x2gb of ddr2 800 memory and when better DX10 graphics cards come out upgrading that as well....

but how stable is Vista right now? Is it stable enough to use it as a primary OS and play WoW, AIM, browse internet maybe monitor some temps for the components?

The other question is I've been reading about 64 bit vs 32 bit.. any suggestions there? Ideally it sounds like 64 bit is better but im sure with the lack of 64 bit programs that would be a problem.. then I got confused reading about how you can run 32 bit programs on the 64 bit OS but that some programs didn't work cause they weren't 64 bit?

Another reason why I ask about the stability is because I've been reading about its network problems and how it has disconnected people or flooded the network with nonsense...
 
32 bit software works just fine under Vista 64, no worries. There is a slight performance hit because of the need to translate the instructions (pseudo-emulation) but Vista handles it with aplomb.

Vista RTM is just fine also, it works very well, and a lot of people are currently using it <hint, hint>. The issue that most people have is drivers, that's always going to be the issue, not the software. Currently Vista 64 has tons and tons of drivers built in, we'll see thousands upon thousands more upon it's "official" general release come January 30th (or the 29th, from some reports I keep seeing) with Windows Update, as well as the influx of support from hardware manufacturers.

What you may experience with Vista 64 right now today this instant is not the final say about Vista, so take any benchmarks, performance reviews, etc, with a huge dose of salt. The drivers, most notably the video drivers, aren't done yet simply because Vista isn't "official" yet for general release.

Vista Business has been out for a while now, but it's not a gaming or entertainment oriented OS so ATI and Nvidia aren't going to dump their production drivers just yet.

Give it a few more weeks, and Vista will take off big time.

64 bit computing is here, now, and it's going to stay. Might as well use it if you can... your CPU definitely can handle it. But in the end it's up to you: you have to install the 32 bit version, and then install the 64 bit version and decide for yourself based on your own hands-on experience which you prefer - there's simply no one else that can do that for you.

The networking issues a lot of people are having (myself being one of them) are caused by the extra stuff Microsoft is throwing on the TCP/IP stack, like the network topology drivers, etc. I had random disconnects until I disabled/uninstalled all the extra junk I'll never need - most if not everyone has no need for that stuff - and now it's stable as a rock with no disconnects since I did the modification to the NIC properties.
 
thats a very helpful post thanks, my motherboard is due here on sunday so im trying to do my research as much as I can now and I think I might go ahead and go with Vista, if I dont like it I can always go back to XP. Also i'll probably go straight to 64 bit since I would like to stay on the edge right now and im sure with each passing day it will only get better...

My final question, I was talking to my friend who has a much larger budget with computers so he has been able to play with vista as well as other things and he was going to let me use his Vista serial number which has gone unused so I haven't looked too much into the version of Vista I'll probably be installing on sunday. Which version is this? It sounds like from what your saying Vista Business is the version that everyones been installing and using, is the latest release a version of Vista Business? And if so whats the difference between this and the home versions that will be available shortly?
 
sniper991122 first of all I would like to thank you for making this post, I have been in a similar boat!
And bbz_Ghost, you have just answered quite a few of my questions, thanks! ;)
 
So a friend has a serial that hasn't been used... Hrmmm... I won't get into that other than to say I'd suspect he has a beta key and I wouldn't mess with any of the betas or release candidates for Vista this close to the actual general release. If you're just interested in toying around with it for learning purposes - and not as a serious OS - then by all means, go for it. That's the other benefit of being in the beta programs: you get your hands on stuff before the majority does so you can learn about it earlier.

What everyone else is using I can't say, but for myself I'm using Vista Business 64 at this moment courtesy of an MSDN subscription. Vista itself has been what's called RTM for well over a month now. RTM = Release To Manufacturing, meaning Microsoft is done with it and sent the "Gold" master DVD(s) to the pressing plants where they start churning out the retail/OEM discs - it also means companies like Dell, Gateway, HP, etc. get their copies so they can start building machines around Vista and make sure they have total hardware and software support.

There are many ways to acquire the Vista RTM build - and the one single DVD has all the editions on it; the key you purchase is what unlocks the particular edition you want to install. Suffice to say, I can't go into the other methods of acquiring Vista.

Be patient, it'll be out soon enough. :)
 
bbz_Ghost said:
Currently Vista 64 has tons and tons of drivers built in, we'll see thousands upon thousands more upon it's "official" general release come January 30th (or the 29th, from some reports I keep seeing)
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Last thing I heard out of MS said that it was the 30th. That was in the context of "your free copy of vista will ship 6-8 weeks after general availability, January 30th".

Oh, well...that gives me time to read reviews and look for problems before making the switch :)
 
hmmm this just sparks more questions, lol I'll have to ask him more about it when I talk to him later tonight...

I have no intentions of getting RTM illigetimitely, nor do I have the money for an MSDN subscription :p So having that out of the way, is there any other way of aquiring an RTM version? What method is everyone else using at the moment?
 
sniper991122 said:
hmmm this just sparks more questions, lol I'll have to ask him more about it when I talk to him later tonight...

I have no intentions of getting RTM illigetimitely, nor do I have the money for an MSDN subscription :p So having that out of the way, is there any other way of aquiring an RTM version? What method is everyone else using at the moment?
Click to expand...

The only people I know who have it legally are OEM employees who got a copy through work and MSDN subscribers.
 
MSDN is the only legitimate way to acquire all Vista editions presently, from what I gather. I don't have an MSDN sub, by the way, but I do work for someone that does so I don't get to log in and look around anytime I damned well please - and believe me, I've asked, many times. :p

Vista Business Edition is the only one currently available for sale that most anyone can acquire, but finding a retailer or OEM that has it for sale is pretty tough currently. Most sites you hit will just say "It'll be available on January 30th," sooo...

There's three things at work here that need to be understood - release, version, and edition:

1) Vista is in RTM status, meaning there's only one release - the RTM build.

2) There are two versions of Vista that will be available: 32 bit and 64 bit.

3) There are 4 editions of Vista that people care about (there are more, but these are the ones that matter to most):

Vista Home
Vista Home Premium
Vista Business
Vista Ultimate

I don't include Vista Enterprise here, nor do I include the "N" editions (designed for the European community that strips out some Windows Media Player functionality). On top of that, each edition comes in the aforementioned 32 or 64 bit versions, so there's quite a few of 'em. :D

Once you get that particular aspect of it out of the way with the difference between the single release build, the different versions, and then the editions themselves, it should be a little bit easier to understand.
 
bbz_Ghost said:
On top of that, each edition comes in the aforementioned 32 or 64 bit versions, so there's quite a few of 'em.
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I've been told by several people here and elsewhere that 32 and 64 bit are on the same DVD.

edit: There certainly hasn't been anything out of MS regarding there being Vista Business 32 and Vista Ultimate 64 or any of that.
 
PopeKevinI said:
I've been told by several people here and elsewhere that 32 and 64 bit are on the same DVD.

edit: There certainly hasn't been anything out of MS regarding there being Vista Business 32 and Vista Ultimate 64 or any of that.
Click to expand...

The thing most people are getting confused by is the mistaken belief that there are individual DVDs for each edition, and that's where the problems come from. There are only two DVDs: one for all the 32 bit editions, and one for all the 64 bit editions (save for the Enterprise edition which is an entirely different release/different DVD).

It's impossible to fit both the full releases for 32 and 64 bit versions of Vista on the same single layer DVD (meaning a DVD5 disc). There is a hacked release out there, one of those "All-In-One" things that has both the 32 bit and 64 bit versions on the same disc, but the problem with it is that because it's a hack job what they ended up doing was using more 32 bit code in the 64 bit installed version than the actual 64 bit version would normally have.

The MSDN 32 bit Vista ISO is ~2.52GB in size, with 614 files and 112 folders.

The MSDN 64 bit Vista ISO is ~3.56GB in size, with 605 files and 111 folders.

That's it, right there as plain as it gets. All the editions of Vista are identical because they all use the same DVD to install from with respect to the 32 or 64 bit versions.

There is no Vista Ultimate DVD, or a Vista Home Premium DVD, or any other edition-specific DVD. There's only the two DVDs to work with: either the 32 bit version, or the 64 bit version and all the editions are on the same DVD, regardless, hence my explaining the difference between editions and versions.

While it theoretically would be possible to put both versions - 32 and 64 bit - on the same installer DVD, to do it properly would require a dual layer DVD (DVD9) and Microsoft isn't going that route.

It's all about the key: what you're buying is an edition-specific key that unlocks the ability to install and activate whatever edition the key is tied to. So when you go to buy Ultimate in a store, you're actually buying the same exact DVD that's in the Home, Home Premium, and Business boxes... but you're getting a product key that lets you install and activate Ultimate, etc.

The key is what you're really paying for; the cool packaging and the DVD are merely thrown in on the deal. :)
 
out of curiosity, what was the last beta version of vista released? Apparently my friend did install it (as im posting on one now) and he is using RC1 build 5600 according to the bottom right corner of the screen... was this the version prior to RTM? (not that I'd expect it to function anything like the RTM version)

and damn do I wish I had an msdn sub, I used to work at the charleston aquarium and got to play with theres for a bit and it really is an amazing thing (if you have the money and have a use for it) but obviously no consumer would ever have such a thing :) still an amazing thing none the less... would be nice to be the head of your IT department if your department had that sub

edit - okay apparently its about 3 versions behind? (roughly) I wonder how much more stable the version before RTM is...
 
The last build that I actually know of was 5808, which I think was the pre-release version, but not sure. The last public build was 5744, which is fairly stable. I have heard about a 6xxx build released, but have never seen any substantiation of it's release.
 
The difference between the RTM build and all previous builds, all of them is absolutely phenomenal. I swear sometimes it's like Microsoft had a finished product and they just released the other builds to make it look like it was garbage, then they flicked a switch somewhere in the bowels of Redmond and wham, Vista turned into this mean machine of an OS almost overnight. I'm not joking here, I'm completely serious.

The builds previous to the RTM build (which is 6.0.6000.16386) were all quite lackluster in performance compared to the RTM one, in many ways. I just can't express how impressed I am with what the coders and programmers did with Vista when the fit hit the shan, so to speak, and crunchtime was on.

A lot changed from the build you are probably messing with (5600) and the RTM one... so much so it's almost like a different OS all together.
 
Yeah this build does have some pretty shitty graphics card drivers and a bunch of other flaws (mainly a whole slew of applications that dont work) but it does show me some of the basic eye candy Vista has which isn't bad... I might try installing the latest beta just to see how much better it is before I get my hands on the copy of XP being shipped to me (mainly to qualify for the $10 Vista upgrade)

Im not even going to wonder how crippling this build of vista does to his 7800gtx sli... seems a waste that this computer is an a64 fx-57with 2.5 gigs of ram and this is the only OS running that old build of Vista :p
 
one more last question then i think im done with my vista inqueries :)

is it possible to get the latest vista beta if you did sign up legally for the microsoft beta? Cause I know the latest build he has is quite out dated and I'd like to play around with the latest build but Im not sure if microsoft still offers it on their site and Im not about to illegally download it so...

any idea? (not RTM, the one prior to that the 6000 whatever build)
 
The beta program is closed, so "legally" the answer is no. But someone that has a copy of the beta might be willing to part with their copy as long as they provide a key as well. This is all really iffy stuff, and with Vista hitting store shelves in a little over 3 weeks now, might be a good idea just to wait for it.
 
well I legally have a serial number tha has been given to me and the only build he has (which I could install) is the one I mentioned earlier so I guess its not an option to install a newer version of the beta... even though he does have legal serial numbers and applied for it and everything...

it'll just be 3 weeks and then another 6-8 weeks till they ship it to me =\ guess i'll have to wait 2-3 months
 
If the key you have was "given" to you by Microsoft directly meaning you signed up for the beta program and were accepted, then you can use it as long as you acquire the necessary ISO for whatever beta or RC build you're interested in. Just gotta... look for it...
 
ok, so this has not been mentioned, but if you are gonna use gentoo, ok really any gnu/linux distribution, may suggest an nvidia video card. More or less nvidia has better linux drivers.....I thought I would just throw that out that to give you a helpful suggestion, when using linux. ATI cards work, and drivers are there, just ATI and linux often have issues, issues being crap drivers. Anyways hopefully AMD will change that.
 
bbz_Ghost said:
If the key you have was "given" to you by Microsoft directly meaning you signed up for the beta program and were accepted, then you can use it as long as you acquire the necessary ISO for whatever beta or RC build you're interested in. Just gotta... look for it...
Click to expand...

thats the answer I was looking for, the serial number was given directly from microsoft... and the only method of finding the latest ISO is of course, through illegal means... but I guess it wouldn't be illegal if I do have a legal serial number so... (since im actually posting from a legal beta version of vista just an older one, would be nice to update it)

and to as i lay dying, i've got gentoo on my laptop which has an ati graphics card and it does decently... Haven't tried installing it on the x800 xt rig, but we'll see how that goes when and if this motherboard ever decides to arrive at my door step...
 
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