Consumer Reports Refuses to Recommend Microsoft Surface Book 2

krotch said:
The problem is what good is a reliability rate on a new car? How can they rate something they hasn't even been on the road long? I'm sure the surveys might be alright for those shopping for used cars, but I'd take it with a grain of salt for anything new. It's pretty much just them guessing, based off prior cars for anything new.
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Reliability ratings don't change much from year to year.

If a car has been rated poorly for the past 10 years, and the current model has been in production for 4 years, I wouldn't expect it to suddenly become a reliable model.

One interesting note.
They had an article a few years ago about car reliability in general. Almost every brand has shown significant improvements over the past 20-30 years.
Short term reliability (like the first 2-3 years) is general good on most cars.

However, if you buy used cars or keep your cars for 10+ years, it's the long term reliability that matters. There is a significant difference between different brands and models of cars. Buying a model that shows long term reliability can save you a lot of money in repairs.

I drive my last car for over 10 years, and it was never in the shop other than for oil changes and tires. (I did my own brake job and replaced minor stuff like light bulbs and a relay myself).
 
nutzo said:
Reliability ratings don't change much from year to year.

If a car has been rated poorly for the past 10 years, and the current model has been in production for 4 years, I wouldn't expect it to suddenly become a reliable model.
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Except there can be massive changes in a car model, when they move to a different chassis. That or if they decide to just keep the same chassis and move to a different engine, transmission, electronics, etc. Things like trim can also affect reliability. Like one car with basic stereo and regular cloth seats vs the same car with an infotainment package, electronic adjustable heated leather seats, sun roof, etc. Odds are high, the one with tons of random extra things, will end up being less reliable simply cause there's more to break.

One interesting note.
They had an article a few years ago about car reliability in general. Almost every brand has shown significant improvements over the past 20-30 years.
Short term reliability (like the first 2-3 years) is general good on most cars.

However, if you buy used cars or keep your cars for 10+ years, it's the long term reliability that matters. There is a significant difference between different brands and models of cars. Buying a model that shows long term reliability can save you a lot of money in repairs.

I drive my last car for over 10 years, and it was never in the shop other than for oil changes and tires. (I did my own brake job and replaced minor stuff like light bulbs and a relay myself).
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I would say every brand has shown significant improvements for engine and transmission reliability, while all the new electronic do-dads have dropped that reliability rating down for some brands.

Me, I like older cars, so I like to pay attention to long term reliability as those would probably end up being my next purchases. Right now I own a 96 Impreza, 00 Impreza, and 05 Forester. I'd like to get something in the 2010+ range.
 
krotch said:
Except there can be massive changes in a car model, when they move to a different chassis. That or if they decide to just keep the same chassis and move to a different engine, transmission, electronics, etc.
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That seem to matter less than you think.
Certain brands are almost always at the top in reliability, when others are almost always at the bottom.

When a company redesigns a specific model, they still use many of the same flawed parts, and make the same bad design decisions.
End result is a car that just as unreliable as the last model.

Only thing worse is buying a 1st year model. Almost every company has problems with the initial year, that they fix the 2nd year.
 
nutzo said:
That seem to matter less than you think.
Certain brands are almost always at the top in reliability, when others are almost always at the bottom.

When a company redesigns a specific model, they still use many of the same flawed parts, and make the same bad design decisions.
End result is a car that just as unreliable as the last model.

Only thing worse is buying a 1st year model. Almost every company has problems with the initial year, that they fix the 2nd year.
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In some cases yes, but in some cases no. Certain changes can adversely affect the reliability. It can be something extremely simple, such as a headgasket design change. It goes from super reliable to exploding engines, even if everything is exactly the same except one part.

You simply never know. You can see a car keep the same chassis, while they have a new redesigned engine they slap it in or they maintain the same engine, while putting it in a new chassis. Basing it's reliability against a previous car makes no sense, unless you know it uses the same exact parts. We already know CR isn't tearing apart a car to find out.
 
Megalith said:
Just a few days ago, Microsoft revealed details of the Surface Book 2 which is due to launch in November. But before the device is even available, it has been dealt a blow by Consumer Reports. Earlier in the year, the review group said that problems with reliability meant that it was impossible for it to recommend any Microsoft laptop or tablet. Now Consumer Reports says that this extends to the Surface Book 2, meaning that the device will not be recommended.

The company expressed disappointment in CR's original decision, saying: "We don't believe these findings accurately reflect Surface owners' true experiences or capture the performance and reliability improvements made with every Surface generation." Microsoft is likely to be similarly disappointed with CR’s statement about the Surface Book 2. Speaking to Benzinga, CR’s spokesperson James McQueen said: “We will evaluate the performance of the Microsoft Surface Book 2 once we get it into our labs next month for testing, but we will not be able to recommend it. Our decision to withhold our recommendation of all Microsoft laptops and tablets is still in effect.”
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If they are automatically withholding their recommendation without even seeing the product then they have no reliability themselves.
 
krotch said:
In some cases yes, but in some cases no. Certain changes can adversely affect the reliability. It can be something extremely simple, such as a headgasket design change. It goes from super reliable to exploding engines, even if everything is exactly the same except one part.

You simply never know. You can see a car keep the same chassis, while they have a new redesigned engine they slap it in or they maintain the same engine, while putting it in a new chassis. Basing it's reliability against a previous car makes no sense, unless you know it uses the same exact parts. We already know CR isn't tearing apart a car to find out.
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Yes that does happen, but it's rare.
A company that is tops in reliability occasional builds a model that is only average, and a company that builds average cars occasionally build an above average model.
But I never see one of the top rated companies have a car at the bottom, or a bottom rated company have a top rate model.

There are only a few brands I'd ever consider buying and they are all top rated in reliability.

An older family member always bought Cadillacs, and bragged about how trouble free they where.
He had so many problems with the 2 last ones he owned (mid 1990 and mid 2000) that he gave up and bought a Toyota.
He had only bought American cars his whole life, but the poor reliability and expensive repairs caused him to consider a foreign make.
After several years of driving it, he says it's the best car he's ever owned.
 
Cadillacs are some of the worst to maintain, seriously how did he manage to have such a good track record? Did he play the lottery too? Lol
 
nutzo said:
Yes that does happen, but it's rare.
A company that is tops in reliability occasional builds a model that is only average, and a company that builds average cars occasionally build an above average model.
But I never see one of the top rated companies have a car at the bottom, or a bottom rated company have a top rate model.

There are only a few brands I'd ever consider buying and they are all top rated in reliability.

An older family member always bought Cadillacs, and bragged about how trouble free they where.
He had so many problems with the 2 last ones he owned (mid 1990 and mid 2000) that he gave up and bought a Toyota.
He had only bought American cars his whole life, but the poor reliability and expensive repairs caused him to consider a foreign make.
After several years of driving it, he says it's the best car he's ever owned.
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Reminds me of my parents. They only bought Toyotas, but tried buying a Pontiac Grand Am once. Weather seals gave out after like 6 months, then the starter gave up after a year. They traded that for a Toyota Sienna later on.
 
Trimlock said:
Cadillacs are some of the worst to maintain, seriously how did he manage to have such a good track record? Did he play the lottery too? Lol
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40 years ago Cadillacs might have been better, but I think he was in denial about the quality for years. Took him a long time to finally see the light :D
 
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