Considering an AMD m-ITX build

[cliffg]

I'm considering upgrading my wife's desktop computer. For now it's mainly used like a netbook, as you'll see from my responses to "Answer these questions first".

I've been trying to snag one of the nice Fry's mobo / processor combo deals, but I've gone by, called, or tried to "buy online, pick up in store" four times now, and every time the deals are gone (Renton, Washington). I'm beginning to think you have to be there within 10 minutes of the combo being offered.

So I'm re-thinking my "lowest cost" approach, and am thinking about building something that can be handed down to the kid in a couple of years for school work or light gaming or engineering projects or whatever (hopefully not surfing too many porn sites).

He's 10 yo, and will most likely help me put the build together (first time for him, sixth or so for me, although my first SFF).

I'd like this to be a SFF build, mini-ITX, as you can see from my proposed part list. I'd like it to be relatively low power, small, easily moved, and stable. There's a couple of other reasons I'd like it to be m-ITX, but if I'm giving up way too much, I'll re-consider and go micro-ATX.

I've always built Intel-based desktops in the past, but it seems the sweet spot (at the moment) for a lower priced, but still fairly powerful system is AMD. This summer or later I might build out a system for hobby use, which will probably be i3 based, using Gigabyte's soon-to-be-released (maybe) m-ITX board (H55 chipset, USB 3.0, and some other nice features). However, barring a hot combo deal that I can actually get, we're talking $250+ for a decent m-ITX mobo and i3.

So I looked at AMD solutions, and while the Zotac GF8200 mobo doesn't knock me off my feet, it's $30+ cheaper than the H55 mobos. And Athlon II X2 3.0 Ghz processors are $65 at the Egg (so the two together are $100 cheaper than the Intel solution).

Here's what I'm thinking for the basic parts:

AMD Athlon II X2 3.0 ($65)
Zotac GF8200 ($90)
2 GB DDR2 1066 (G.skill or equivalent, $65)
Sugo SG05 ($100)
Slimline DVD ($60)

I already have a 40 GB Intel SSD I'll use for the HD.

I could save a few bucks with a cheaper case, but I think the Silverstone is worth the cost (in particular, the power supply is supposed to be good, and has enough headroom for possible future needs).

The integrated graphics in the Zotac are more than enough for my wife's needs, and if it gets handed down to the kid later, he can always put in a cheap graphics card.

BTW, Atom (or similar) processors would be enough for my wife's needs, but I really hate giving up that much processing power (compared to what I'm planning here), and assuming my son does a bit more now and in the future it's good to have the "headroom".

Answers to the template questions:

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Mostly e-mail, word processing, web browsing, pic and music management, some light gaming.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Would like to keep it under $500.

3) Where do you live?
Seattle area.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.
As mentioned above - Mobo, CPU, RAM, SFF case and power supply, DVD drive.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Monitor (Dell LCD), speakers, keyboard, mouse, etc.

6) Will you be overclocking?
Not at first, son may in future years (if m-ITX he'll just have to live with limited or no OC'ing capability)

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
Currently 19", may buy her a 22" in the future. No need for multiple monitors.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Soon. Will order within a few days, unless plans change.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.
No RAID, firewire, crossfire, SLI, SCSI, serial port, etc needed. (Important data is backed up on a raided NAS on our home network.)

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? 32bit or 64bit?
Yes, Win 7 (bought the 3-pack, so I can install either 32 or 64 bit). I don't see much advantage to going 64 bit, but can if it will help anything. (My desktop with 4GB RAM will soon have Win 7 64 bit installed on it.)

---

Anything I've missed, or am I way off base here? Am I on track with my "sweet spot" thinking, or is there really that much more bang for the buck with an i3 / H55 solution (or older generation Intel)?

As always, I appreciate the comments and feedback on this forum.

Cliff

 

[fr500]

Everything seems fine, maybe a better heatsink, the GeminII should work fine fanless in that setup and considering you're using an SSD it will be cool and quiet.

 

[bastage]

The integrated graphics in the Zotac are more than enough for my wife's needs, and if it gets handed down to the kid later, he can always put in a cheap graphics card.

So what Zotac 8200 Mini ITX board you gonna do that with. None have a PCIe or even a PCI that I can find.

Hows this for you though. what you priced there was 380... For 382 you can get a better looking better performing i3 system with the possibility of a 5750 or some 5770's later if you needed.

i3 - 530 119.99
ECS H55 76.99
Crucial 2x 1gb kit 57.99
Antec Earthwatts 380w PSU 44.99
Lian Li PC-q07 59.99
Lite On DVD RW 21.99

Total is 381.94 before shipping & it gives you more power now & the ability to upgrade to even more later.


Edit: also keep in mind that the Clarksdale Integrated graphics ae much higher performing then that 8200

 

[Bladestorm]

I would avoid that Zotac board like the plague. I have it and it's great if it wasn't for the severe USB issues it has. This is taken from a Newegg review and I can confirm what he's saying,

"Disastrous USB flaws. (1) If external USB storage is plugged in, the board hangs during POST. Zotac tech support told me this is normal! (2) If keyboard and mouse are plugged into the ports below the network port, then KB, mouse, and network are all undetected by the OS during boot, therefore inoperative. I have to move KB and mouse to different ports in order for everything to function. (3) Under Linux, using a USB-to-serial adapter results in random lockups waiting for USB operations which never complete."

The cd player in my truck has a USB port and plays MP3's off of a thumb drive. I have an external USB hard drive full of MP3's. If I transfer an album from that drive to a USB thumb drive, it will look like the transfer was fine, but when I take that drive to my truck and play it some songs will work, some will only play for a few seconds, and some not at all. That same USB HD and thumb drive doing the same exact transfer but on a different PC will play fine.

Bottom line, don't get the board.

 

[NichoTL]

Other option: Zotac 9300 Wifi miniITX with a E3300 or E5300 (E3300 should be enough). Also with such a setup you could even consider the Antec ISK-300 as case. I know that the Intel cooler on the E5300 is fairly quiet and would fit the Antec box (I'm hoping the same applies to the E3300. I know the coolers on the E6xxx and E8xxx are subjectively noisier). That's because you won't be using a discrete graphics card (actually a low-profile card fits the Antec, but then the problem is the power required...).

 

[bastage]

Other option: Zotac 9300 Wifi miniITX with a E3300 or E5300 (E3300 should be enough). Also with such a setup you could even consider the Antec ISK-300 as case. I know that the Intel cooler on the E5300 is fairly quiet and would fit the Antec box (I'm hoping the same applies to the E3300. I know the coolers on the E6xxx and E8xxx are subjectively noisier). That's because you won't be using a discrete graphics card (actually a low-profile card fits the Antec, but then the problem is the power required...).

that is an alternative.. but at that point I would just go with an atom.. Also its a dead path with basically nothing that can be upgraded later.. Kind of splits the difference between an atom & the i3 build above though.

 

[cliffg]

Thanks for the comments! It looks like it might not be as straightforward as I'd like, but that's why I posted.

The Zotac GF8200-C-E does have a PCI-e x1 slot. I didn't pay much attention, not having bought a graphics card in quite a few years (regarding possibly putting in a cheap graphics card in the future). And there are PCI-e x1 video cards, right? But if the selection and value of x1 cards are pretty poor, then maybe I shouldn't realistically consider that as a possibility. I did note one review saying "A single 1X PCI-e slot is yesterdays news! They really could have put a 8X PCI-e slot on the board."

I just read all of the Egg reviews (instead of the just the first three). Definitely mixed reviews. The USB problems (and others) are making this mobo pretty much a no-go.

Regarding Atom - I'll do a bit more research. I just hate giving up the bandwidth and processing power compared to beefier architectures, but maybe that's just a problem with me, and the reality of the real world differences won't matter much.

Ok, now I'm going to check out the ECS board that bastage recommended.

It's looking like m-ITX and AMD is not going to be a go. I'd love to go i3 if I can get a decent H55 m-ITX mobo and keep the price relatively low.

Or maybe look at the smallest (but good) mATX case ... there should be lots more mATX mobos for AMD (or cheap ones for an i3). But ... I'd still rather build an ITX system.

Cliff

 

[cliffg]

Just read the SFF thread on ecs - sounds like it's a real possibility, and at the right price! Hmm - has this board just recently become available? (I don't remember seeing it as a possibility a couple of weeks ago.)

It has a PCI-e x16 slot, so that shouldn't limit any future cheap graphics cards too much (other than general ITX system issues - heating, placement, etc).

I haven't used ECS mobo's before, but problem experiences from other users look like they were from some years back. There's no customer reviews at the Egg, yet. I google'd some reviews of the board, and they are mostly complimentary.

So ... latest build list (w Egg prices):

ECS H44H-I ($77)
i3-530 ($120)
Crucial 2X1 GB DDR3 1333 ($60, as suggested by bastage, but I assume other ram manuf would work well)
Case + ps ($120 w shipping - see note below)
DVD ($25 or $60, depending on size)

Regarding case + ps, what are the tradeoffs with the Antec + Lian Li (as suggested by bastage) versus the SG05 (or similar)? Price is fairly comparable ($100+15 compared to $60+10 + $45 + 6), so that won't be a consideration.

Cliff

 

[fr500]

If you want to go gamer, SG05 is way to go. gives you more options

The Antec fits low profile only video cards, also I'd buy 2 Noctua RF-R8 fans if I went that route. My advice for video card with the antec is an ATI HD5570.

The Lian-Li fits an ATX psu, Guess you can cool the CPU with a Scythe big Shuriken and can fit up to a particular model of ATI 5770, otherwise max is an ATI 5750

Both the Antec and Lian-Li are fairly limited comparing to the SG05/SG06, but all of them would fulfill your initial requirements

 

[bastage]

If you want to go gamer, SG05 is way to go. gives you more options

The Antec fits low profile only video cards, also I'd buy 2 Noctua RF-R8 fans if I went that route. My advice for video card with the antec is an ATI HD5570.

The Lian-Li fits an ATX psu, Guess you can cool the CPU with a Scythe big Shuriken and can fit up to a particular model of ATI 5770, otherwise max is an ATI 5750

Both the Antec and Lian-Li are fairly limited comparing to the SG05/SG06, but all of them would fulfill your initial requirements

Yea uhmmm Not quite..

If this was going to be a hardcore gaming system I would say go with the sugo. But its not. Thats been pointed out. The Antec has a MUCH smaller footprint it takes up. It does stand a little taller, but not a huge amount different. here is a pic of mine next to my monitor (that is a 28" lcd and the desk is 8' long so its not as small as it looks there).

To Sum it up if you go with the sugo your more limited on PSU's & optical drives. But you can fit a longer video card just incase you do eventually put one in there. Also You do not need a half height Video card in the Lian Li. You just cant have a Long Video Card (this is a 8800gts sitting across the whole case). The 5750 PCD is ideal. It leave jsut enough room. The thing about the 5770 is that PowerColor does make a few 5770's on a 5750 pcb. from the sounds of things IF this does turn out to need a graphics card then the 5750 would be more then it sounds like you need anyway. & Also dont think you cant or shouldnt run a 5750 (or 5770 for that matter) on that antec PSU. Its a better PSU then the one that comes in the SUGO. & if you find that you do need more ANY standard ATX psu fits.

Its obvious that my preference is the Lian Li. Because quite frankly my desk space is more valuable then the air space above it.

 

[Steeeeve]

Until the SG07 comes out in a few weeks

 

[fr500]

Yea uhmmm Not quite..

If this was going to be a hardcore gaming system I would say go with the sugo. But its not. Thats been pointed out. The Antec has a MUCH smaller footprint it takes up. It does stand a little taller, but not a huge amount different. here is a pic of mine next to my monitor (that is a 28" lcd and the desk is 8' long so its not as small as it looks there).

To Sum it up if you go with the sugo your more limited on PSU's & optical drives. But you can fit a longer video card just incase you do eventually put one in there. Also You do not need a half height Video card in the Lian Li. You just cant have a Long Video Card (this is a 8800gts sitting across the whole case). The 5750 PCD is ideal. It leave jsut enough room. The thing about the 5770 is that PowerColor does make a few 5770's on a 5750 pcb. from the sounds of things IF this does turn out to need a graphics card then the 5750 would be more then it sounds like you need anyway. & Also dont think you cant or shouldnt run a 5750 (or 5770 for that matter) on that antec PSU. Its a better PSU then the one that comes in the SUGO. & if you find that you do need more ANY standard ATX psu fits.

Its obvious that my preference is the Lian Li. Because quite frankly my desk space is more valuable then the air space above it.

I was talking about the Antec ISK-300 discussed above, that PSU is no way better than...any other PSU, thats why I said 5570 not 5750

 

[bastage]

I was talking about the Antec ISK-300 discussed above, that PSU is no way better than...any other PSU, thats why I said 5570 not 5750

damn your right.. You mentioned both in your post & I was thinking it was the antec PSU I recommended & got confused.