Considering a return to AMD

S

StratocasterMaster

Supreme [H]ardness
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Nov 23, 2000
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To be honest I miss my AMD rig, while the two P4 systems I've owned since my trusty duron 600 (That carried me upwards of 1100mhz) were good to me they just left me dissatisfied... although that may be due to the other hardware ajoined to them I dont know. My latest PC has given me constant issues and the temperature of the CPU is insane beyond all reason, even with the W/C I was utilizing.. and yet the 2.8c had no quams about pushing 3.2GHz all day long. Even at stock speeds I had stability problems over time and the loss of several GB's of data and random glitches in gaming has sent me over the edge. It is time to move on and return to my roots; AMD has been in my systems since I was 8 years old and I want to return to them. (Back in my 386 days)

With that said I dont think I will pass any of my current hardware over with this system as I'm concerned about causes of failure, I may transfer my Audigy 2 and my DL burner but that may be it. I use to play a lot of games but recently I only have been interested in World of Warcraft so performance in all situations of this game is important. I know it loves memory, both system and video so those are key things to keep in mind. I also dablle with HL2 on occassion and would like to keep future releases in mind.

Here are my current specs:
Lian-Li PC60
Antec TruePower 430w
Abit IS-7e mainboard
Intel Pentium4 2.8c HT
2x256mb Geil 'Golden Dragon' PC3200
ATI Radeon 9600xt (AGP - 128mb)
SoundBlaster Audigy 2
WD 120GB PATA
WD 160GB PATA
LG CD-RW 52x/24x/48x
LG Dual-Layer DVD-R+/- x16

Currently my main problems were constant lock-ups in WindowsXP, after a fresh install of WinXP it ran a disk scan and 'recovered lost data' which translated o corrupting MANY MANY image and sound files that were important to me (MP3's, progress with my cars, family/friends pics, etc), problems with sound repeating and glitching (corrected only by reboot) and constant lag (particularly my computer not network) in gaming like WoW.

Key things I wanted to look for was a good 939 CPU atleast 1gb if not 2gb of good memory and a suitable but affordable video card. I've also considered going with a single SATA drive and pulling the PATA's I own for other PC's or backup storage.

I sadly havent kept up with what is best in the AMD world for my needs as I kow an FX chip is beyond my realm. I was considering a Opteron 3400+ or X2 coupled with 1gb of Corsair XMS memory (another choice brand I never should of strayed from).

I appreciate any input you guys could offer to help me choose a good gaming platform at a reasonable cost with good stability. I most likely wont overclock this system as I have in the past, unless the 'modders itch' hits me. :)

~Kris
 
Well, reasonable cost may be different from you to the next person (it is for me). What's your budget range for the parts you want to get?
 
DejaWiz said:
Well, reasonable cost may be different from you to the next person (it is for me). What's your budget range for the parts you want to get?
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Hard to say, I want to keep under 200 or right around for the CPU, I was thinking 120ish for the mainboard, etc I'd probably go with a regular Athlon x64 and upgrade to an X2 later, however I dont want to shortchange myself to start with and get an inadequate CPU.. I think a 3400+ may fit the bill and perform well though.

Since this will be a whole new set of innerds staying in my Lian-Li (replace PSU as well I'm thinking) a safe budget may be $1500.

~Kris
 
Get an ultra-D and an opteron 165 if you can. For 1500 you can throw something together with those and a 7800gt, ram, hd, etc...
 
Be aware that $1500 can get you quite a bit of hardware.

This list of hardware is assuming that you take the optical out of your old computer as well as the Audigy2.

4400 X2 @ $460
DFI UT nF4 Ultra-D @ $130
7800GT @ $300 (though prices will drop soon with the next refresh of cards)
2x1gig Corsair XMS (If thats your preference, though Corsair is generally more expensive than the competition with no performance benefit) @ $236
WD 320gig SATA @ $135
Antec Truepower 550 @ $90
Antec P180 (or your preferred case) @ $120

Total: $1471

Some of the components listed, like the SLI motherboard and Corsair memory, are areas that you'll have more choice in. Going non-SLI will be less expensive, so you will need to ask yourself whether you believe it is necessary. The 7800gt will be more than enough to run WoW maxed out. The case is also completely up to you, I just popped up the P180 for consideration because I love mine :)

These prices will be lower if you shop around, as I got these prices from Newegg.
 
Wow $1500 will get you a lot. I was expecting a reply with something to the order of around $500 or so! lol

I suggest you reuse your HDD, optical drives, and Audigy2, as replacing these will only give minimal gains, if any at all. I can understand if you definitely want new HDD's, as you stated that your current can be put to a good alternative use.

Couple questions before I make some suggestions:
1. ATI or Nvidia? If you've been eyeballing the new X1900 series, then I recommend going that route as they are very impressive from what I have seen and read. If you prefer nVidia, then the 7800GT is the sweet spot right now (what I run).

2. Do you do any intensive video or audio editing?

3. Do you plan on overclocking this new cpu?
 
First of all don't waste cash on a 4400... my 165 easily hits 2.7 Ghz, and even hits 2.6 at just 1.4v. Secondly, the Ultra-D isn't a SLI motherboard, and only can support sli through mods. I would, however, recommend it for it's overclocking ability.
 
mattjbak said:
First of all don't waste cash on a 4400... my 165 easily hits 2.7 Ghz, and even hits 2.6 at just 1.4v. Secondly, the Ultra-D isn't a SLI motherboard, and only can support sli through mods. I would, however, recommend it for it's overclocking ability.
Click to expand...

Oops, I f'd up on that mobo then. There's just so many DFI's to mess up the name with :)

The reason I didn't say to go Opteron is that he isn't looking to overclock. If he was, then yes, it would make more sense.
 
quadnad said:
Be aware that $1500 can get you quite a bit of hardware.

This list of hardware is assuming that you take the optical out of your old computer as well as the Audigy2.

4400 X2 @ $460
DFI UT nF4 Ultra-D @ $130
7800GT @ $300 (though prices will drop soon with the next refresh of cards)
2x1gig Corsair XMS (If thats your preference, though Corsair is generally more expensive than the competition with no performance benefit) @ $236
WD 320gig SATA @ $135
Antec Truepower 550 @ $90
Antec P180 (or your preferred case) @ $120

Total: $1471

Some of the components listed, like the SLI motherboard and Corsair memory, are areas that you'll have more choice in. Going non-SLI will be less expensive, so you will need to ask yourself whether you believe it is necessary. The 7800gt will be more than enough to run WoW maxed out. The case is also completely up to you, I just popped up the P180 for consideration because I love mine :)

These prices will be lower if you shop around, as I got these prices from Newegg.
Click to expand...

That is actually pretty nice... although I will re-use my Lian-Li since I never finished it, a new PSU is a definate though. I'm not fond of nVidia but the nForce boards seem to be the most popular available with good OC features.... quandries quandries.... I really like ATI.

What is differant about the 165 Opteron? I know the X2's are dual core but beyond that I'm unaware of the differances between the FX-series(flagship chip) and differant cores available....

I would overclock, but initially I'm not looking too, only because I am concerned that whatever issues my current system had may have stemed from it but aside from that I've never had ill-effects from overclocking before so I dont want to completely forego it.

~Kris
 
DejaWiz said:
Wow $1500 will get you a lot. I was expecting a reply with something to the order of around $500 or so! lol

I suggest you reuse your HDD, optical drives, and Audigy2, as replacing these will only give minimal gains, if any at all. I can understand if you definitely want new HDD's, as you stated that your current can be put to a good alternative use.
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Yea, 1000 would be better which after that initial qoute makes me see as realistic but 1500 isnt too extreme. My friend spent over 4000 on his PC he built a short-while ago and I felt that was an extreme amount of money to spend.

DejaWiz said:
Couple questions before I make some suggestions:
1. ATI or Nvidia? If you've been eyeballing the new X1900 series, then I recommend going that route as they are very impressive from what I have seen and read. If you prefer nVidia, then the 7800GT is the sweet spot right now (what I run).
Click to expand...

I prefer ATI however if nVidia will offer the optimal performance without any fluff on my HDD I'm more than willing to go that route. (I havent had an nVidia card since my Geforce2 mx200, lol)

DejaWiz said:
2. Do you do any intensive video or audio editing?
Click to expand...

Not really, I use Photoshop and plan to get into Illustrator but these are already well handled in my current configuration so I'm not concerned about these being an issue.

DejaWiz said:
3. Do you plan on overclocking this new cpu?
Click to expand...

Not initially, however once I've gotten things broken in and feel comfortable with my settings and setup I may very well... I said I'd never OC my P4 and yet I ended up going for it anyways.

EDIT: I'm partial to ABIT for mainboards but a hinderance to them has been the excessive NB temps I've experianced in the past.

~Kris
 
The Opteron's are CPUs designed for professional tasks, meant for server systems. The Opterons in general have an excellent potential to overclock. Thats why so many people buy them. The 165 is a dual core Opteron, but is intially clocked 400mhz slower than the 4400 (1.8 vs 2.2). The idea is that you'd pay less for the Opteron, and OC it at the least to the 4400 speeds. So it's up to you whether you'd like to take that route or not.

Since it doesn't seem you initially want to OC, I'd go with the 4400 and overclock it later.
 
Here are some good choices as well:

MOTHERBOARD:
Investing in an SLI board won't hurt anything, as you don't have to use SLI, but it might be nice to have in case you want to upgrade later on (you can even use an ATI card in it with no qualms, but lose multi-gpu capability) The new EPoX boards have been reported to be very stable and quite oc'er friendly.
EPoX SLI no firewire $109
EPoX SLI with firewire $137

GPU:
X1900XT $500
or
7800GT CO SE $300
or
7800GTX $454

HDD:
WD 320GB SATA Enterprise (5yr warranty) $143
Seagate 250GB SATA $103

CPU:
X2 3800+ $301
or
Opteron 165 $325
or
Venice 3500+ $201

MEMORY:
Mushkin 2GB PC3200 $159

PSU:
Enermax Liberty 500W (dual 12V rails) $110
or
FSP 700W (quad 12V rails) $171

TOTAL:
$1125 to $1538 (plus shipping)
 
Another thing to consider is DDR2, it doesnt seem to be all too popular but I know a few OE vendors are using it exclusively now. Any word on if I should consider a board with DDR2 support or not bother?

~Kris
 
There are no DDR2 AMD motherboards as of now. That should be arriving along with AM2.
 
If your primary game is world of warcraft you could go with a 3200 venice, which is plenty fast and alot less money than other cpus, plus you could oc it as well. World of Warcraft plays great even with a 6800gt at 1600x1200 with max settings (couple buddies run this configuration), with my 7800gt at 1920x1200 res wow runs maxed settings usually 50 to 80fps anywhere but IF, which is usually 25 to 30fps. There was no gain that I noticed going from a venice 3500 to the x2 I have now btw.
 
Ultra-D is a great board with latest bios, I had this board, highly recommend it. And you can do SLI with a relatively simple mod. If that is a bother for you then I would just get the expert board you linked. That way in the future you could add a second 7800gt without issue when it comes time for more power.
 
I haven't known an opteron 165 yet that can't hit quite easily. Also at 2.7 Ghz my idle temps are only 29-31c and load is 40ish, so if you want to overclock, and want a lot of bang for the buck I would strongly recommend it.
 
 
I say those are good choices... but for about $100 more you've got the opteron 165 which will be dual core and last a lot longer ;)
 
ignitionxvi said:
just so you know, all seagate hard drives have 5 year warrenties also.
Click to expand...
Precisely why I linked it. ;)

Strato: Why do you want enthusiast memory? I'm definitely not knocking it, as XMS is some really good stuff, but are planning on pushing a heavy oc on your RAM? If not, then get something cheaper and use a memory divider, as there is absolutely no performance penalty for doing so with an A64 platform.

Search on some of the threads around here. OC'ing your memory and using tighter timings will yield only about a 1-6 fps increase in just about any game. Is that worth the extra cost to you?
 
I strongly suggest opteron 165. I would also get a SLi board or a board with 2X 16express slots for future proofing(like when PPUs start coming out). X1900XTX looking really good for future games but you might wanna wait untel nvidias refresh. If you cant wait I recommand X1900XT/X since its very good with shader intensive games which all future games will be.
 
pArTy said:
I would also get a SLi board or a board with 2X 16express slots for future proofing(like when PPUs start coming out).
Click to expand...

?! The first offerings are going to be PCI, with PCI-Express to follow when bandwidth requires that. So, we won't be seeing that for a long time.

Either way, if he isn't a hardcore gamer, then there is no reason to worry about PCI-express PPUs.
 
Yes I'm starting to consider waiting to order until nVidia's refresh, just to save some cash. I considered the 6800GT and compared it against the 7800GT, and from what I found the 7800GT has 4 additional pipelines, a 100mhz boost in the core and a 50mhz boost on the memory. The price differance is only about $80 so I feel the 7800GT is DEFINATELY worth it. The X1*** series from ATI is proving expensive and I am feeling as though I should give nVidia another shot so I'm going to take a chance and stick with the 7800GT as my final choice.

As far as memory, I've always lived by Corsair but givent he argument you have presented I know Mushkin will be stable memory so that will save me almost 100$ right there. I still prefer Corsair just as IMHO it is the best stuff out there but not mission critical to my goals as you stated.

I think my hardware choices are locked in via the list of newegg items I posted, the only change I think I will make will be the memory as the concencius is that it is additional cost without additional benifit.

~Kris
 
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