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Conroe with HT

Hey, that ETA looks pretty cool. ;) Why is Dallas is a month behind everyone else?

Kind of weird to implement HT here considering the architecture, but I probably just never correctly understood how it was implemented on the P4's in the first place..
 
Lots of rumors saying the E6600 has H/T and that link I posted shows it has H/T and other preorder links in this forum also show E6600 has H/T
 
drizzt81 said:
I was under the impression that conroe does not have HT at all.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't have thought so. Conroe has a fewer pipeline stages if I am not mistaken. Which reduces the effectiveness and the need for HT in the first place.
 
Im pretty sure Conroe doesnt have HT. HT was a Netburst feature. I dont think they developed HT for Conroe.

Where is Poncho? He will tell us.
 
Conroe doesn't have HT. It was shot down the last time it came up. I've read that Intel may reintroduce HT in future versions of NGMA processors. Don't hold your breath though.

Dan_D said:
Conroe has a fewer pipeline stages if I am not mistaken. Which reduces the effectiveness and the need for HT in the first place.
Click to expand...
huh?
 
So all these site have made a mistake on the preorders showing . E6600 has H/T someone should contact them and let them know about the error they have made.

http://www.sparco.com/cgi-bin/wfind2?spn=A21K104




4th processor down on this list. Its also More $$$$

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q...g.mozilla:en-US:official&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wf


This one shows it on some E6700

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q...g.mozilla:en-US:official&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wf

The XE 6800 is shown not to have H/T

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q...g.mozilla:en-US:official&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wf


Now either These are mistakes by these sites or some models do infact have H/T which some us have stated all along.
 
Lazy_Moron said:
Im pretty sure Conroe doesnt have HT. HT was a Netburst feature. I dont think they developed HT for Conroe.

Where is Poncho? He will tell us.
Click to expand...

Simultaneous Multithreading (what Intel calls HT) is certainly not limited to the P4. Pretty much any superscalar processor will have idle execution units that can take advantage of it.

There are several processors that use SMT. Alpha had a processor that would have been the first to use SMT, but it was never released. IBM, MIPS, SUN, all use various types of SMT.

AMD is pretty much the only major company that doesn't use any form of it, even though the Athlon could certainly benefit from it. IIRC, it has three execution units, and with the limits of ILP one is going to be idle a majority of the time.

That said, I have no idea if Conroe is going to have it, but I'd say it is a safe bet some time down the road one of the later generations will have it.
 
Most of this is speculation based off website listing. Considering the large amount of errors that eTailers have had in the past, even when listing parts that have already been released, I would put little faith into what froogle throws up at the moment.
 
Well take into account that they list differant models of the same cpu at differant prices . I have to say right now that it looks like ht on conroe is real . Now explain the differant prices on the same models including OEM and retail.
 
drizzt81 said:
Most of this is speculation based off website listing. Considering the large amount of errors that eTailers have had in the past, even when listing parts that have already been released, I would put little faith into what froogle throws up at the moment.
Click to expand...

Tell me what are you basing denial on??? Tell me that.
 
That has to be a typo.... at this time Conroe does not have HT. Now... that's not to say that there won't be a version with HT in the future..... but as of right now, there isn't. Really though... if you want a HT Conroe just wait for Quad Core. Until they fix the FSB bottleneck that's all quad core will be IMHO, dual core with HT. My excitement for quad core is apparent isn't it? LOL
 
The Register - Merom, Conroe, Woodcrest lose HyperThreading...

Intel's unnamed next-generation microarchitecture (NGMA) will combine the Pentium 4's bus, the Pentium M's power optimisations and some "new innovations", Intel said today.

However, one of those features will not be HyperThreading, at least not in the NGMA's initial versions, the chip giant admitted.

At NGMA's heart is a 14-stage instruction pipeline - around half the length of 'Prescott' pipeline, the same as the old Pentium Pro, and probably in line with 'Dothan' pipeline length. Prescott's pipeline was extended to around 30 stages to support clock frequencies of 4GHz and beyond. Now that Intel is no longer targeting such high clock speeds - thanks to the heat dissipation problem - out goes the need for such a long pipeline, needed to keep the core efficient at high clock speeds.

A 14-stage pipeline suggests we'll be looking at 'Conroe' and 'Merom' clock frequencies well below those at which today's Pentium 4 runs - they'll probably run at 2-3GHz, though Intel didn't provide any guidance on clocking. The lower speed, plus the smaller, 65nm fabrication process will help keep the power consumption down. So too will the efficiency techniques derived from Dothan.

The NGMA core can execute four instructions per clock, Intel said, pulling them out of the order in which the program 'expects' them to be run. Interestingly, in its "first implementation", NGMA doesn't have HyperThreading, to make software easier to compile, David Perlmutter, VP and General Manager of Intel's Mobility Group suggested.
Click to expand...

Until Intel states that there will be HT, I don't belive it....and neither should you.

Terra - Not the first "false marketing" I have seen from etailers...
 
I agree the E-tailers make a lot of mistake but the Israeli gentlemen at ES says it has H/t and other high profile posters have said the same. It will be of no real use for awhile but it is a feature some may desire. Its really no differant than posters saying RH/T is available for amd am2 x2 processors except I haven't seen one Etailer post AM2 X-2 available with RH/T
 
$BangforThe$ said:
Tell me what are you basing denial on??? Tell me that.
Click to expand...
The fact that even excellent online retailers like newegg often have misprints in their online listings. Even for products that have been on the market for a prolonged period of time, there are often typos and other mistakes in online and print listings.

If you look at http://www.newegg.com/CustomerService/PolicyAgreement.asp
newegg said:
Newegg.com is not responsible for typographical and/or photographical errors.
Click to expand...
You will notice that newegg covers themelves in case that their "HT" isn't an HT processor.

On another note: I did not say that it is impossible that Conroe will ship with HT, I said
drizzt81 said:
I would put little faith into what froogle throws up at the moment.
Click to expand...
which is a very different statement.
 
$BangforThe$ said:
but the Israeli gentlemen at ES says it has H/t and other high profile posters have said the same.
Click to expand...
Would you mind indulging us with a link to this?
 
Poncho said:
That has to be a typo.... at this time Conroe does not have HT. Now... that's not to say that there won't be a version with HT in the future..... but as of right now, there isn't. Really though... if you want a HT Conroe just wait for Quad Core. Until they fix the FSB bottleneck that's all quad core will be IMHO, dual core with HT. My excitement for quad core is apparent isn't it? LOL
Click to expand...

Yes it is . But its the same thing as H/T on conroe not really useful till 3 or more threads on a app. Unless as I am thinking the shared cache would be all four cores . Now were talking baby . 8mb of cache on one thread fab stab u lous
 
Someone is confusing dual core being able to handle multiple threads & hyperthreading.
 
chrisf6969 said:
Someone is confusing dual core being able to handle multiple threads & hyperthreading.
Click to expand...

:speculation alert: Just wait till you see the "performance gains" with quad core. I know that it operates differently than HT.... but I'm willing to bet that you won't see much difference between the two. Really.... quad core is 100% marketing IMHO... it's the new 64bit. Totally useless.... but a "must have" and whoever gets it out first wins. :rolleyes:
 
$BangforThe$ said:
Isn't false marketing illeagal? Some one should inform them of there error. That link is a year old from the registor
Click to expand...

False marketing?
Intill you show me an guy from Intel stating that HT will be included in the Conroe, I don't care if it's a year old...it still Intel stating it.

Terra - Anyone got ANYTHING from Intel...if not then I know where to put the rumour... :rolleyes:
 
chrisf6969 said:
Someone is confusing dual core being able to handle multiple threads & hyperthreading.
Click to expand...

I think this is the case too...

Terra...
 
Poncho said:
:speculation alert: Just wait till you see the "performance gains" with quad core. I know that it operates differently than HT.... but I'm willing to bet that you won't see much difference between the two. Really.... quad core is 100% marketing IMHO... it's the new 64bit. Totally useless.... but a "must have" and whoever gets it out first wins. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Poncho do you know if Kentsfield will share the cache of all four cores? Because that would be a benefit

Mid day stock watch

AMD down 22 cents @ $25.42

INTC up 23cents @ $18.53

Closing

AMD down 51cents @ $25.13

Intc down 8 cents @ $18.22
 
$BangforThe$ said:
Poncho do you know if Kentsfield will share the cache of all four cores? Because that would be a benefit
Click to expand...


I want to say no... shared cache isn't planned till later I believe.
 
$BangforThe$ said:
Than the Kentfield on the desktop is E-penis related only correct
Click to expand...


In my opinion yes.... maybe I'll be surprised when I see some benchmarks, but I doubt it.
 
$BangforThe$ said:
Yes it is . But its the same thing as H/T on conroe not really useful till 3 or more threads on a app. Unless as I am thinking the shared cache would be all four cores . Now were talking baby . 8mb of cache on one thread fab stab u lous
Click to expand...

Or when running multiple apps. Video encoding programs have been shown to show great improvement from even 4 cores over 2. If you RIP and Xvid a ton of DVDs, quad core would be worth it.

Poncho -

Well, pretty much the same thing, anything is an e-penis gain if you only do basic apps and games on your computer. If you use a lot of multi-threaded apps or encoding, the extra speed seems worth the price.
 
NulloModo said:
Poncho -

Well, pretty much the same thing, anything is an e-penis gain if you only do basic apps and games on your computer. If you use a lot of multi-threaded apps or encoding, the extra speed seems worth the price.
Click to expand...

But you forget that you are going to run into the FSB as a bottleneck with 4 cores running @ 1066fsb. Hell... even when they go up to 1333fsb I bet it'll still be bottlenecked. With 2 cores the FSB really isn't an issue, but with 4 I'm betting it will be. It's still too early to tell, I hope I'm wrong.
 
Poncho said:
But you forget that you are going to run into the FSB as a bottleneck with 4 cores running @ 1066fsb. Hell... even when they go up to 1333fsb I bet it'll still be bottlenecked. With 2 cores the FSB really isn't an issue, but with 4 I'm betting it will be. It's still too early to tell, I hope I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Maybe still a bottleneck there, just depends on if 4 is a big improvement than to. Same reason I am waiting to see a real benchmark of 2 core woodcrests running FBDIMMs vs. 1 dual core Conroe running 965 before I buy.
 
Poncho said:
With 2 cores the FSB really isn't an issue, but with 4 I'm betting it will be. It's still too early to tell, I hope I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
I hope you're right. If FSB is a major limiting factor for scaling, Intel will probably only release lower speed grade quad core chips. Overclocking will help both problems on a 2-2.4GHz quad core CPU. :D

The 1066MHz FSB is pretty old. Is there any reason why Intel didn't shoot higher than 1333MHz?
-----

IMO, desktop quad core will wind up like desktop 64-bit. It's a cool feature to have and a few will benefit from it, but it will probably go mostly unused to its potential for a while.

It's pretty cool to think that when there's a DDR3-1333 spec (or overclocked DDR2-1066 if it's ever made) that a pair of DIMMs will provide over 20GB/s of memory bandwidth, about 10x more than lowly single channel PC2100 did just a few years ago. :cool:
 
pxc said:
I hope you're right. If FSB is a major limiting factor for scaling, Intel will probably only release lower speed grade quad core chips. Overclocking will help both problems on a 2-2.4GHz quad core CPU. :D
Click to expand...

Yea, it's looking like quad core will be @ a lower clock speed than it's dual core counterparts.... as well as a lower FSB on the Xeon line. Things change though.... especially this far out from launch. Look at it this way... 1333fsb was supposed to happen for the XE line of Conroes ust a few months ago, who knows what'll happen 8 months from now.

pxc said:
The 1066MHz FSB is pretty old. Is there any reason why Intel didn't shoot higher than 1333MHz?
-----
Click to expand...

This has been covered at great lengths.... but it's my opinion that it was a marketing decision. 1066 is all that is needed to pass AMD by a notable amount, no reason in playing your hand before you have to. Gives Intel a bit more quick ammo in the future. Had Conroe in 1066 not been such a great performer then I bet you would have seen 1333fsb right off the bat. Again... jsut my opinion.
 
Aren't the task manager screenshots of Conroe's at work enough? They show 2 cpu graphs since it's dual core. If it were dual core AND had HT, wouldn't it show 4? I don't know how much more definitive it gets than that. And besides, who gives a turd if it has HT? We have real dual cores now. As cool as it would be to see 4 CPU graphs in task manager, HT has been pretty useless to me.
 
TeknoZX said:
Aren't the task manager screenshots of Conroe's at work enough? They show 2 cpu graphs since it's dual core. If it were dual core AND had HT, wouldn't it show 4? I don't know how much more definitive it gets than that. And besides, who gives a turd if it has HT? We have real dual cores now. As cool as it would be to see 4 CPU graphs in task manager, HT has been pretty useless to me.
Click to expand...

I have to say though... the first time I saw 8 threads in task manager I did get a bit misty and had a semi going. :D That alone might be worth it. LOL
 
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