Conroe debunked

[Donnie27]

As I said, the Rage II *at that time* wasn't aimed at the mainstream. It *was* a mainstream graphics chipset two years earlier (1998), because I remember selling quite a few whitebox Rage II-based cards to S3 owners that wanted to upgrade (I was working at a computer store at that time, and, in fact, marshaled our getting these whitebox Rage IIs *because* of the S3 crap that was out there). Remember, this was 2000, and the ProLiant was a *server*, not a desktop; yet the Rage II was, in fact, standard fare in the ProLiant. (Onboard; yes. Integrated; no.) Intel's margin on performance chipsets is *higher* than on those *butt-ugly* IGP egg-layers, and, quite honestly, I would rather not see another S3 in my lifetime.

Both LX and BX boards sold with Many different IGPs during those days. It's still moot for where or what you're tying to push here. Who cares?

 

[Donnie27]

Intel gets there ass handed to them for the foreseeable future, but Donnie makes every excuse he can...

Actually it has little to do with excuses. If you take off you AMD Green Glasses for just a second, then use some common sense, you might learn something.

Then repeatedly says he isnt a !!!!!!.....

Almost anyone looks like an Intel Fan next to you.

Fact is. Intel's second quarter sucked.

Dewd, we're still in the 2nd Quarter LOL! We're past the halfway mark of the 2nd Qrt.

Conroe 16s PI 1M

BooYao!

AMD wiped the floor.

Yup, that usually what happens when you get knocked down.

Intel has nothing now that will make it better, but paper. When the third quarter comes, they may have a better chip, but they are going to so overstocked with current 90nm paryts that they arent going to be able to sell there good chip anyway. Not to mention that yeilds on 65nm suck. It's less then 50% right now. And predictions say that by the end of the year it wont be much better.

Sure they don't.

Why do you think Conroe hasn't been released yet. They've been ramping for the past three months. That should've been plenty of time to build stock.

AMD can get by on shipping 1 to 2.5 million, Intel has to ship 6X that many in the same period of time. Intel can't get away with the same small numbers AMD ships.

 

[GilmourD]

Almost anyone looks like an Intel Fan next to you.

I dunno, man... Logic doesn't seem to mean a whole lot to you.

Dewd, we're still in the 2nd Quarter LOL! We're past the halfway mark of the 2nd Qrt.

I think that every time you spell dude that way, it invalidates your argument a bit more. LOL

AMD can get by on shipping 1 to 2.5 million, Intel has to ship 6X that many in the same period of time. Intel can't get away with the same small numbers AMD ships.

Here's a challenge to you... Using only Intel silicon, build a time machine and travel to a point where a real Conroe actually exists. Take it back to our present, and then you'll stop pissing off even some Intel fans. LOL

 

[Donnie27]

I dunno, man... Logic doesn't seem to mean a whole lot to you. I think that every time you spell dude that way, it invalidates your argument a bit more. LOL

Whatever you say Dewd, hehehehe!

Here's a challenge to you... Using only Intel silicon, build a time machine and travel to a point where a real Conroe actually exists. Take it back to our present, and then you'll stop pissing off even some Intel fans. LOL

Here's one for you, look at where said "Intel has to ship", note, I didn't say they already have.

 

[GilmourD]

Whatever you say Dewd, hehehehe!

Here's one for you, look at where said "Intel has to ship", note, I didn't say they already have.

My point is that you're defending a chip that may or may not exist in the form in which you're defending it. We have no proof. We won't until sometime around September to October. [waiting for you to spin this one]

 

[coldpower27]

OMG! *Senses a virtualslap to duby*. 16 seconds Super Pi on its lowest model! OMG! *orgasm*...

That is very impressive though keep in mind that is an overclocked result at 3.1GHZ. Though still very nice score.

Conroe at 2.4GHZ gets 21s from what I remember. So the predictions of a ~15s or lower on the 3.33GHZ Extreme Edition are reasonable.

 

[coldpower27]

Not that I know differently, but how do you know Half didn't work? Even if it's Sept, then what? There will be no supply problems, in fact, Intel's comments seemed more towards worrying about Chipsets. In a break from the Old Intel, it seemed they went overboard to make sure ATI, SIS and even VIA had the correct stuff to support them.

November?

So far he hasn't backed up the lower then 50% yeild claim, right now all we have to go is his word on this issue.

We have currently no indication of how Core's supply will be like. Though with 3 65nm fabrication plants online by the end of 2006 it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[duby229]

So far he hasn't backed up the lower then 50% yeild claim, right now all we have to go is his word on this issue.

We have currently no indication of how Core's supply will be like. Though with 3 65nm fabrication plants online by the end of 2006 it shouldn't be an issue.

Which is the whole point.

Until the end of this year they just simply wont be available in volume. Sure they will have some. And some poaple will be able to get them. But not in great numbers. My guess is that Intel will have goodvolumes by November but prolly not before.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31150

This is interesting.....

Why all the sudden a change in direction? I thought Intel was going to realease Conroe in July? Then it was June? Now it is August?

Sounds to me that Intel is having problems.

Here is how it works folks. Some of you wont like it, but here it is. Intel will be releasing Woodcrest first becouse Clockspeed and power consumption arent quite as critical, and demand will not be as high. Later when yeilds improve, and supplies improve, they will release Conroe in limited supply, then a little later when yeilds improve further and they get power cunsupmtion down, they will release merom.

Sorry folks. I know it is hard to swallow the truth, but there it is.

 

[Terra]

*bookmarked thread so I can take quotes from here when Conroe gets released*

Terra - Nothing better than feeding people their own words down their own throath

 

[Donnie27]

*bookmarked thread so I can take quotes from here when Conroe gets released*

Terra - Nothing better than feeding people their own words down their own throath

Yeah, I can't wait! Post #448 is going to look real _______ then.

 

[coldpower27]

Which is the whole point.

Until the end of this year they just simply wont be available in volume. Sure they will have some. And some poaple will be able to get them. But not in great numbers. My guess is that Intel will have goodvolumes by November but prolly not before.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31150

This is interesting.....

Why all the sudden a change in direction? I thought Intel was going to realease Conroe in July? Then it was June? Now it is August?

Sounds to me that Intel is having problems.

Here is how it works folks. Some of you wont like it, but here it is. Intel will be releasing Woodcrest first becouse Clockspeed and power consumption arent quite as critical, and demand will not be as high. Later when yeilds improve, and supplies improve, they will release Conroe in limited supply, then a little later when yeilds improve further and they get power cunsupmtion down, they will release merom.

Sorry folks. I know it is hard to swallow the truth, but there it is.

There was never a set release date for NGMA besides Q3 2006. Again quoting the Inquirer is not a good measure of accurate information, as they like to spew all possible scenario so they will have the highest probability of getting right. If you shoot every single target possibility at least once your bound to hit the right one at least once.

Optimists beleived that this will be Early July of Q3, while the Pessimists beleived the Late September of Q3. Intel never once said when exactly in Q3 they will launch Core architecture.

Ok, so you take a pessimistic stance on when Conroe will be available in large qauntities and that is fine, jsut as long as you don't try to portray it as fact which you are doing with the below 50% yield figure for Intels' 65nm processors.

That parituclar rumor at the Inquirer does have merit as it's inline with what AMD has done for K8, launching Opterons in the H1 2003, and launching the destkop Athlon 64's in H2 2003, with mobile parts coming in last. Does it mean it's right o what will really happen.. possibly, possibly not.

So far I have taken a fairly optimistic appproach and hope for Conroe availability by late July/Early August, but I wouldn't be disappointed if it was a tad later then that.

And then you go again, what you posted isn't truth, it's simply your thoughts on what will happen with Intel's Core Architecture launch. If the rumors about Intel ramping production are true, then by the Intel ships, supplies should be adequate enough that anyone that wants Core will be able to get it with reasonable ease and at Intel's set pricing.

To me it doesn't look like Intel is having any issues with the launch of Conroe as I have always looked toward a quarter to mid Q3 launch of Conroe on desktop.

 

[Poncho]

Why all the sudden a change in direction? I thought Intel was going to realease Conroe in July? Then it was June? Now it is August?

Umm.... Conroe was always Q3 and still is. There was talk about bringing it in, but that is all moot unless there is a chipset available. It WILL be released with 965 very shortly and yes, Dell will get frirst crack I'm sure, but that doesn't mean that conroe will be in short supply for everybody else.

Here is how it works folks. Some of you wont like it, but here it is. Intel will be releasing Woodcrest first becouse Clockspeed and power consumption arent quite as critical, and demand will not be as high. Later when yeilds improve, and supplies improve, they will release Conroe in limited supply, then a little later when yeilds improve further and they get power cunsupmtion down, they will release merom.

Sorry folks. I know it is hard to swallow the truth, but there it is.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... really man, you have NO idea what you are talking about. I would love to tear into this.... but I can't. Let me just say you are WRONG and I know your wrong and most people here know that I know what I am talking about. Let me just say this.... Power Consumption and Clock speeds ARE critical for Woodcrest.... more so than just about anything else right now. Woodcrest is going to be released first becuase it is CRITICAL that Bensley launches soon.

 

[Donnie27]

So far he hasn't backed up the lower then 50% yeild claim, right now all we have to go is his word on this issue.

We have currently no indication of how Core's supply will be like. Though with 3 65nm fabrication plants online by the end of 2006 it shouldn't be an issue.

I honestly don't think some of these folks understand Intel's size. To even say AMD has a better process? These guys are way off. Not to mention it is IBM and AMD's process, not AMD's alone. IBM is spending the Lion's share of the R&D as well. There's noway in hell Intel would send out price lists we saw with $315 on 2.4GHz Conroe if yields were 50%. 2.66GHz at $530 is not the Top model. IMHO, Intel will stick it to the FX-EE croud as well with the top model having the Top price.

 

[Donnie27]

There was never a set release date for NGMA besides Q3 2006. Again quoting the Inquirer is not a good measure of accurate information, as they like to spew all possible scenario so they will have the highest probability of getting right. If you shoot every single target possibility at least once your bound to hit the right one at least once.

Optimists beleived that this will be Early July of Q3, while the Pessimists beleived the Late September of Q3. Intel never once said when exactly in Q3 they will launch Core architecture.

Ok, so you take a pessimistic stance on when Conroe will be available in large qauntities and that is fine, jsut as long as you don't try to portray it as fact which you are doing with the below 50% yield figure for Intels' 65nm processors.

That parituclar rumor at the Inquirer does have merit as it's inline with what AMD has done for K8, launching Opterons in the H1 2003, and launching the destkop Athlon 64's in H2 2003, with mobile parts coming in last. Does it mean it's right o what will really happen.. possibly, possibly not.

So far I have taken a fairly optimistic appproach and hope for Conroe availability by late July/Early August, but I wouldn't be disappointed if it was a tad later then that.

And then you go again, what you posted isn't truth, it's simply your thoughts on what will happen with Intel's Core Architecture launch. If the rumors about Intel ramping production are true, then by the Intel ships, supplies should be adequate enough that anyone that wants Core will be able to get it with reasonable ease and at Intel's set pricing.

To me it doesn't look like Intel is having any issues with the launch of Conroe as I have always looked toward a quarter to mid Q3 launch of Conroe on desktop.

QFT!

 

[coldpower27]

I honestly don't think some of these folks understand Intel's size. To even say AMD has a better process? These guys are way off. Not to mention it is IBM and AMD's process, not AMD's alone. IBM is spending the Lion's share of the R&D as well. There's noway in hell Intel would send out price lists we saw with $315 on 2.4GHz Conroe if yields were 50%. 2.66GHz at $530 is not the Top model. IMHO, Intel will stick it to the FX-EE croud as well with the top model having the Top price.

Judging with the Data we have I would say Intel's process are generally better, due to not needing SOI to reach lower thermal targets as well as being quicker to market with process transisitions.

I don't believe Duby's lower then 50% yeild either as I don't believe a semi conductor company of Intels magnitude which relies on large volumes, would put into a production process that is yielding 50% or less, a reasonable assement IMO, would be 70-80%+. Also considering how healthy Intels' 65nm process is with 2.0GHZ Cedar Mill Demoed back in Q1 of 2005, low yields are hardly beleiveable.

Yes I have seen the price charts the E6700 will be the highest mainstream model at launch analogous to the Athlon 64x2 4800+ that we have now in the AMD camp, there will be an Extreme Edition at 3.0GHZ+ or greater with 1333FSB, to compete with AMD's FX Series.

 

[Donnie27]

Judging with the Data we have I would say Intel's process are generally better, due to not needing SOI to reach lower thermal targets as well as being quicker to market with process transisitions.

I don't believe Duby's lower then 50% yeild either as I don't believe a semi conductor company of Intels magnitude which relies on large volumes, would put into a production process that is yielding 50% or less, a reasonable assement IMO, would be 70-80%+. Also considering how healthy Intels' 65nm process is with 2.0GHZ Preslers Demoed back in Q1 of 2005, low yields are hardly beleiveable.

Yes I have seen the price charts the E6700 will be the highest mainstream model at launch analogous to the Athlon 64x2 4800+ that we have now in the AMD camp, there will be an Extreme Edition at 3.0GHZ+ or greater with 1333FSB, to compete with AMD's FX Series.

I agree!

But Also keep in mind that the 4800+'s current prices hasn't been that way very long.

 

[coldpower27]

I agree!

But Also keep in mind that the 4800+'s current prices hasn't been that way very long.

Huh? I don't really get what your trying to convey? Care to elaborate?

 

[duby229]

You guys are crackin me up!!

Most of you have no clue what you talkin about, and those of you who do are in denial. This is funny shit..... Speciffically about fab tech. Intel is at least 5 years behind AMD in fab tech. And you got guys in here sayin crap like well 65 is smaller than 90..... ok? Maybe some of you should get a good book on fabrication. Also you guys should look into apm. Look into ssoi. Look into AMD's deposition process. You guys are funny.

Conroe went from being savior to mediocre. Truelly funny stuff here.

 

[Poncho]

You guys are crackin me up!!

Most of you have no clue what you talkin about, and those of you who do are in denial. This is funny shit..... Speciffically about fab tech. Intel is at least 5 years behind AMD in fab tech. And you got guys in here sayin crap like well 65 is smaller than 90..... ok? Maybe some of you should get a good book on fabrication. Also you guys should look into apm. Look into ssoi. Look into AMD's deposition process. You guys are funny.

Conroe went from being savior to mediocre. Truelly funny stuff here.

Yea... you're an idiot. Go back to the AMD forums.

 

[SLee]

Most of you have no clue what you talkin about, and those of you who do are in denial. This is funny shit..... Speciffically about fab tech. Intel is at least 5 years behind AMD in fab tech.

So are you really saying AMD's 180nm process is better than Intel's 65nm process?

And you got guys in here sayin crap like well 65 is smaller than 90..... ok? Maybe some of you should get a good book on fabrication. Also you guys should look into apm. Look into ssoi. Look into AMD's deposition process.

And so far, Intel's 65nm process has performance and power specifications that match or exceed IBM/AMD's best-case for their 65nm process.

 

[Poncho]

So are you really saying AMD's 180nm process is better than Intel's 65nm process?


And so far, Intel's 65nm process has performance and power specifications that match or exceed IBM/AMD's best-case for their 65nm process.

Really man...this guy is an obvious troll. Either he really believes what he is saying, which would make him a total moron, or he's just talking out of his ass to get under our skin. He was doing a good job until his last post. Now he's really not worth it.

 

[jon67]

You guys are crackin me up!!

Most of you have no clue what you talkin about, and those of you who do are in denial. This is funny shit..... Speciffically about fab tech. Intel is at least 5 years behind AMD in fab tech. And you got guys in here sayin crap like well 65 is smaller than 90..... ok? Maybe some of you should get a good book on fabrication. Also you guys should look into apm. Look into ssoi. Look into AMD's deposition process. You guys are funny.

Conroe went from being savior to mediocre. Truelly funny stuff here.

This guy is in a state of denial that is bordering clinical psychosis. Had no idea the mere smell of Conroe would make the AMD fanatics this desperate...

 

[duby229]

Really man...this guy is an obvious troll. Either he really believes what he is saying, which would make him a total moron, or he's just talking out of his ass to get under our skin. He was doing a good job until his last post. Now he's really not worth it.

I'm not a troll.

I posted this thread in the AMD forum. It has much more value there then here. Maybe you should take it up with the person who moved the thread.

If you dont believe what I say, then maybe you you dont know what you think you know.

 

[Poncho]

If you dont believe what I say, then maybe you you dont know what you think you know.

If you REALLY believe what you say, then I KNOW you don't know what you think you know. But I'll humor you a bit more....Let's compare credentials....


Where do you get this info? Do you work for Intel? AMD? Radio Shack? Anything?

 

[duby229]

So are you really saying AMD's 180nm process is better than Intel's 65nm process?


And so far, Intel's 65nm process has performance and power specifications that match or exceed IBM/AMD's best-case for their 65nm process.

APM my friend. Something Intel still can't do.

As far as power cunsumption goes, They needed to very drastically cripple there mobile chips to compete. And that isnt even the crux of it either. It goes much deeper then that, which will be brought to the surface before the end of this year.

 

[duby229]

If you REALLY believe what you say, then I KNOW you don't know what you think you know. But I'll humor you a bit more....Let's compare credentials....


Where do you get this info? Do you work for Intel? AMD? Radio Shack? Anything?

I don't work for anybody. I just have a drive to research technology. It is my hobby. I like Intel. I like AMD. I like IBM and Motorola. And I try to keep up with what they do.

Listen. I'm not going to get into the history of fabrication. But if you go back to about the 250nm node for those above mentioned companies. That is where modern fabrication really began. They were using cmos before that , but there were some really amazing advances that accured on that node. And everything that is being done today is based in some form on the same process.

Do a google search. There is plenty of information available.

This guy is in a state of denial that is bordering clinical psychosis. Had no idea the mere smell of Conroe would make the AMD fanatics this desperate...

I guess we'll have to wait until November when it is actually available.

 

[Poncho]

I don't work for anybody. I just have a drive to research technology. It is my hobby. I like Intel. I like AMD. I like IBM and Motorola. And I try to keep up with what they do.

Where do you get your research from? I only ask because you seem to get a different picture of Intel than I do..... AND I WORK @ INTEL. So please... how is your data so much better than mine?

 

[duby229]

Where do you get your research from? I only ask because you seem to get a different picture of Intel than I do..... AND I WORK @ INTEL. So please... how is your data so much better than mine?

So what do you do? Fork lift driver? I dont know what?

I study......

It is called the information super highway for a very good reason.

I work with network systems. The software my company uses is for medical billing. But that doesnt make me qualified to be a medical biller.

 

[Poncho]

So what do you do? Fork lift driver? I dont know what?

Well, I'm working on Clovertown right now if that's any indication on what I do.

I study......

It is called the information super highway for a very good reason.

OMG.... if it's on the internet it must be true. LOL....


This guy is so much fun, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[jon67]

I don't work for anybody. I just have a drive to research technology. It is my hobby.

Let's hope it stays that way.

 

[duby229]

Funny.

Good luck with Cloverton. I hope it pans out well for you.

 

[SLee]

APM my friend. Something Intel still can't do.

So what do you think Intel does, manual precision manufacturing?

As far as power cunsumption goes, They needed to very drastically cripple there mobile chips to compete. And that isnt even the crux of it either. It goes much deeper then that, which will be brought to the surface before the end of this year.

Yonah performs comparable to equal-clocked X2s while using less power than a Turion MT. Sad thing is not even an ULV Turion X2 will be competitive in power consumption.

 

[Poncho]

Funny.

Good luck with Cloverton. I hope it pans out well for you.

I'm really starting to love this guy. I bet he's got AMD tatooed across his ass. LOL

 

[Donnie27]

Huh? I don't really get what your trying to convey? Care to elaborate?

The current prices on the 4800+ and 4600+ are the result their prices falling over the last month to 5 weeks. The 3800+ has been from $289 to $329 forever. Not the case for the others.

These and the AM2 prices will have to be cut as well.

 

[JetUsafMech]

Hell, Yonah is giving AMD fits, who cares about Conroe?

 

[coldpower27]

The current prices on the 4800+ and 4600+ are the result their prices falling over the last month to 5 weeks. The 3800+ has been from $289 to $329 forever. Not the case for the others.

These and the AM2 prices will have to be cut as well.

Ok, sorta, I have followed AMD's pricing for awhile now and I do recall the launch prices of the X2 4800+ and 4600+ respectively. 1001US and 803US respectively very expensive as AMD had basically no competiton at that point.

The current price off 643US and 556US for the 4800+ and 4600+ has actually been in effect starting at the end of January. So those processor have been that price for almost 3 months or approximately 12 weeks. Makes sense that AMD slashed prices after the release of the FX 60.

The 3800+ has dropped about 50US during it's entire lifetime of existance.

http://www.mikeshardware.co.uk/CPUPricesAMD.htm

http://anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=2677

There have been some significant drops of the 4400+ and 4200+ over their lifetimes as well over thier intial prices at launch. Though not as large as 4600+ and 4800+ or as small as 3800+'s drop.

Socket AM2's pricing seems to be largely indentical to Socket 939, so I will look for AMD to drop prices after the introduction of Conroe, it would be smart of them for now to charge as much as they can, while they still can.

 

[Donnie27]

Ok, sorta, I have followed AMD's pricing for awhile now and I do recall the launch prices of the X2 4800+ and 4600+ respectively. 1001US and 803US respectively very expensive as AMD had basically no competiton at that point.

The current price off 643US and 556US for the 4800+ and 4600+ has actually been in effect starting at the end of January. So those processor have been that price for almost 3 months or approximately 12 weeks. Makes sense that AMD slashed prices after the release of the FX 60.

The 3800+ has dropped about 50US during it's entire lifetime of existance.

http://www.mikeshardware.co.uk/CPUPricesAMD.htm

http://anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=2677

There have been some significant drops of the 4400+ and 4200+ over their lifetimes as well over thier intial prices at launch. Though not as large as 4600+ and 4800+ or as small as 3800+'s drop.




Socket AM2's pricing seems to be largely indentical to Socket 939, so I will look for AMD to drop prices after the introduction of Conroe, it would be smart of them for now to charge as much as they can, while they still can.

Thanks! I'll not dig myself a deepper hole. I thought they sold for more, not $1000 but still closer to $700. Yet, that's still too much for me to pay and a pretty LAME buy with not only Conroe so close, but AMD's cuts that's sure to follow.

 

[coldpower27]

Thanks! I'll not dig myself a deepper hole. I thought they sold for more, not $1000 but still closer to $700. Yet, that's still too much for me to pay and a pretty LAME buy with not only Conroe so close, but AMD's cuts that's sure to follow.

It's also too much for me too, but hey since they are the leader for now, they are going to charge that price until they no longer can get away with it.

Considering the E6600 will only be ~ 385CAN or so, and will beat this product sometime and launch farily soon, I don't need to consider AMD unless I actually get wind of exactly what their prices will be.

 

[(cf)Eclipse]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... really man, you have NO idea what you are talking about. I would love to tear into this.... but I can't. Let me just say you are WRONG and I know your wrong and most people here know that I know what I am talking about. Let me just say this.... Power Consumption and Clock speeds ARE critical for Woodcrest.... more so than just about anything else right now. Woodcrest is going to be released first becuase it is CRITICAL that Bensley launches soon.

we'll see who has the last laugh here.. but know one thing: there's nothing that pisses me off more than someone disagreeing, saying that someone else is wrong, THEN having the audacity to say something like "i can't say why you're wrong", it just makes you sound like an egotistical bastard who really doesn't know anything at all.

 

[Donnie27]

It's also too much for me too, but hey since they are the leader for now, they are going to charge that price until they no longer can get away with it.

Considering the E6600 will only be ~ 385CAN or so, and will beat this product sometime and launch farily soon, I don't need to consider AMD unless I actually get wind of exactly what their prices will be.

Of course they're the leader. But how many times have you read things written by AMD worshippers saying AMD wouldn't do such a thing?

I've already said i965 and E6600 or bust for me.

Nov-5. I was talking to Sparks and we were planning to get Dual Core Opterons. We watched in shock as the prices jumpped. I bought the 3500+ and he put off buying anything. No, I don't think the 3800+ has ever been worth its price. Since Northwood, the only thing Intel had of any interest to me is Presler and maybe Cedar Mill. Now if they'd launched last summer or Fall, who knows.

For my Conroe system, whenever it ships, I had planned on nVidia's 7900GT but since I want an Intel based chipset and they BLOCK SLI, I think I'll used ATI, again. Since many nVIdia fans are also AMD (SNAP), I don't get the lack of outrage.

All 4 of PC Perspective's Leader board systems are AMD. They're hardly AMD Fans though. Here's they say;

While it may not happen for a few months, expect to see Intel on here soon. The Conroe chips that we previewed during IDF were *incredibly impressive on gaming applications and current pricing levels that I have seen show it that you'll find several great models for *under what that FX-60 is going to cost you today. This summer and fall should be very exciting for hardware enthusiasts!

Again, I welcome all comments on our new Hardware Leaderboard and my choices for the products...

I think he should have said under what the 4800+ costs by about $100 and across the board LOL!