Conroe convert - Many, many questions

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BlastRadius

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
187
Hi all,

First off thanks for looking. Please leave any comments you feel relevant.

Obviously like the rest of the gaming world I am amazed by the performance / price of the new Conroe range of CPUs. So much so that I am ditching a couple of my AMD systems and going after a Conroe setup as my main "gaming" rig.

After much deliberation I will be going after an E6600 and hoping to get a safe and stable 3.2 out of it; may try for more depending on reliability and heat.

First Question:

Any particular E6600 to look out for? Week codes? Any particularly good overclocker?

Second Question:

I have heard that the stock Heatsink is a bit of a duffer; tricky to install and not overly effective for heat dissipation at higher clocks. Which heatsink would you recommend?

Third Question: - Motherboards.

Having never had an Intel motherboard I am confused somewhat by the definitions. Which motherboards should I be looking at? And are there any other chipsets out there yet other than the intel ones? - Preferably I would like an Nvidia chipset (Although NO SLI please, single PCIe will suffice).

Fourth Question: - Memory.

This will be my first foray into DDR2. Any recommendations for manufacturer / speed?

Fifth Question: - PSU

Will I be able to use my on an Intel Mobo connector wise etc..? And will be enough for a single GPU setup with average peripherals?


That all said I have about £1000 to spend on this, I already have DVDs and a nice case. And don't forget I am in the UK so any UK suppliers would be appreciated.

Thanks for your time.

EDIT: Updated to include finalised build.

Buying:

Motherboard:
Asus P5B Deluxe Unless someone convinces me to get the P5W DH Deluxe lol.

CPU
E6600 hoping to get 3.2Ghz on stock cooler

Memory
Geil 2X1GB PC6400

Already have and using:

Case 1of 3? Which one for best cooling?
Thermaltake Tsunami
Lian Li PC-60 Plus
Coolermaster Mystique 631

PSU


GPU
Evga 7900GT KO

Storage
2 X WD Raptor 74GB(16mb Cache)
1 X Seagate Barracuda 320GB(16mb Cache)

Sound
X-Fi Extreme music

And DVDs and all that jazz.

Thank you for contributing, I will forget your names as soon as I start this beast up! jk ;)
 
BlastRadius said:
Hi all,

First off thanks for looking. Please leave any comments you feel relevant.

Obviously like the rest of the gaming world I am amazed by the performance / price of the new Conroe range of CPUs. So much so that I am ditching a couple of my AMD systems and going after a Conroe setup as my main "gaming" rig.

After much deliberation I will be going after an E6600 and hoping to get a safe and stable 3.2 out of it; may try for more depending on reliability and heat.

First Question:

Any particular E6600 to look out for? Week codes? Any particularly good overclocker?

Second Question:

I have heard that the stock Heatsink is a bit of a duffer; tricky to install and not overly effective for heat dissipation at higher clocks. Which heatsink would you recommend?

Third Question: - Motherboards.

Having never had an Intel motherboard I am confused somewhat by the definitions. Which motherboards should I be looking at? And are there any other chipsets out there yet other than the intel ones? - Preferably I would like an Nvidia chipset (Although NO SLI please, single PCIe will suffice).

Fourth Question: - Memory.

This will be my first foray into DDR2. Any recommendations for manufacturer / speed?

Fifth Question: - PSU

Will I be able to use my Antec Truepower 550W on an Intel Mobo connector wise etc..? And will 550W be enough for a single GPU setup with average peripherals?


That all said I have about £1000 to spend on this, I already have DVDs and a nice case. And don't forget I am in the UK so any UK suppliers would be appreciated.

Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...

Q1: Not sure. I am sure someone will handle this one.

Q2: The installation of the Intel stock cooler is fine, and it works pretty well actually. There is a trick to it, but once you figure it out its fine. You can actually install it and remove it without pulling the motherboard out of the case. Few other coolers work like that. If you are hell bent on going with something else, the Zalman CNPS9500 is great, as are the standard Zalman AlCu 7000's and other like models. Additionally, the Sythe Ninja has become very popular today. Another great unit to grab is the Swfitech MCX775. Though old, it provided badass cooling for my 3.95GHz Pentium 4 550 which is a testament to its ability. You have to buy your own fan for that one, so be preppared for that. The Coolermaster Hyper 6 is good too, as is the Hyper 48, and there are plenty of other great choices out there I have no experience with. The nice thing here is that Core 2 Duo uses the same socket, heatsinks and fans the Pentium 4 did, but they don't run nearly as hot. So if it's good enough for Pentium 4 and Pentium-D, then it is good enough for Core 2 Duo.

Q3: You WANT an Intel chipset. You've never had one so I'll clue you in. The Intel chipsets are bar none, the BEST motherboard chipsets in the world. They are also truely the only way to go when it comes to Intel processors. They are virtually perfect and problem free. Right now for Core 2 Duo, they are also your only choice for overclocking. This is also perfect because you aren't interested in SLI.

You should look at something using the P965 Express chipset or the i975x chipset: I'd recommend the P965 over the i975x in your case because of price and your lack of desire for a dual video card setup. The i975x chipset isn't really necessary for a single card machine and costs a lot more.

Gigabyte P965-DS3 and DQ6
ASUS P5B, P5B Deluxe, P5B Deluxe WiFi/AP
Biostar TForce P965 Deluxe (If you can find it)

Q4: Corsair, OCZ, Crucial, G-Skill, PQI, Patriot, and many more to choose from. I personally like Corsair, Crucial, and OCZ. The memory in my sig is fantastic. I was able to duplicate Kyle's 501MHz FSB and 3.51GHz OC with it. The latencies aren't bad and the price is very competetive. The Corsair PC8000 ram didn't do as well on that particular board.

Q5: 550Watts is enough, if the power supply is of good quality. However, if you don't have a 24pin powersupply, you can try to adapt from 20 to 24 pin, but I have found boards that didn't work very well like that. You really should get a 24pin ATX 2.0 or EPS12v PSU for your new machine.
 
Thanks Dan for all the Info. Exactly the information I was after.

I have just been looking at most of the Motherboards you mentioned and I am drawn to the Asus variants. I am still a little scared to use an Intel Chipset, given your status I will take your advice seriously; just hard to be drawn away after being an AMD whore for all these years.

I think when I installed this PSU it had a "break off and seperate" connector than can be either 20 or 24 pin, so I guess I may as well see how that goes.

I'm sure a lot of people have asked similar questions in recent weeks as they convert to a conroe setup; maybe a small compatability chart would help?
 
I am using a 450Watt Antec Smart Power power supply that came with my Antec Sonata II case and I've had no problems with this setup.

I also own the Gigabyte DS3 motherobard and have been very happy with it. I went right to 400 x 7 on my e6300. Easiest overclock I've ever done.

I also use the stock cooler and have found it to be adequate. It wasn't hard to put on at all, and it comes off easily as well. I just didn't want a huge piece of metal in my case like some of the after market heat sinks I've seen. I am running about 59-62C under full load and am still well within Intel's thermal specs. If it was getting up to 70C or so then I probably would buy an aftermarket hsf...but I honestly don't see the point at this time.

I was on a rather limited budget when I did this build. I spent less than $200 on each indivdual part. I already had a hard drive, monitor and optical drives. I got everything I needed for about $760.

I agree with Dan that you definitely want to go with an intel chipset. This has been the most problem free build I've ever done. I even hooked up all the lights correctly on the first try. I couldn't ask for better really.

Please remember that I was coming for a socket A machine at 2.2GHz. I notice an improvement in almost everytthing really. Sometimes the differences is small, but most of the time it is huge...especially with processor intensive stuff.
 
BlastRadius said:
Any particular E6600 to look out for? Week codes? Any particularly good overclocker?
Click to expand...
The best E6600 procs for ocing were the ES (engineering sample) versions. However they are rare, and illegal to purchase (though a few enthusiasts do it on forums, ebay etc).
Otherwise as to the final retail versions, with every week / stepping there are good oc procs and mediocre oc procs - so it looks like it just comes down to luck. Though 3Ghz on a E6600 should be no trouble to reach.

Having never had an Intel motherboard I am confused somewhat by the definitions. Which motherboards should I be looking at?
Click to expand...
The most popular boards are probably the Gigabyte DS3, and the Asus P5B - those are the lowest price yet excellent oc potential boards available, hence their popularity.

This will be my first foray into DDR2. Any recommendations for manufacturer / speed?
Click to expand...
The speed at which you run your ram can limit your overclock, if you wish to have a 1:1 ratio.

Example, at ram stock speeds with a E6600:

The 6600 has a x9 multiplier, and its DDR2, (double), so you divide by two, meaning at 1:1 @ stock speeds

DDR2-667 (aka PC2-5400) will allow you to reach 3.0Ghz on a E6600 ((667 / 2) * 9).
DDR2-800 (aka PC2-6400) will allow you to reach 3.6Ghz on a E6600 ((800 / 2) * 9).
DDR2-1066 (aka PC2-8500) will allow you to reach 4.8Ghz on a E6600 ((1066 / 2) * 9).

You get the idea.

(Of course in reality your ram may not be the bottleneck, other things like you boards max FSB will probably be reached first)
Also usually you can push your ram to higher speeds, even more by by loosening the timings. Or some will choose to run at a different ratio, like 4:3. Regardless, I would recommend DDR2-800 sticks to be paired with an E6600 planned to be overclocked.
 
Drexion said:
The 6600 has a x9 multiplier, and its DDR2, (double), so you divide by two, meaning at 1:1 @ stock speeds

DDR2-667 (aka PC2-5400) will allow you to reach 3.0Ghz on a E6600 ((667 / 2) * 9).
DDR2-800 (aka PC2-6400) will allow you to reach 3.6Ghz on a E6600 ((800 / 2) * 9).
DDR2-1066 (aka PC2-8500) will allow you to reach 4.8Ghz on a E6600 ((1066 / 2) * 9).

You get the idea.

(Of course in reality your ram may not be the bottleneck, other things like you boards max FSB will probably be reached first)
Also usually you can push your ram to higher speeds, even more by by loosening the timings. Or some will choose to run at a different ratio, like 4:3. Regardless, I would recommend DDR2-800 sticks to be paired with an E6600 planned to be overclocked.
Click to expand...


I am having trouble tracking down any memory above DDR2-667. I was hoping DDR2-1000 (PC2-8000) is this compatible? Also any specific brand? Any UK vendors.

Thanks for all the input so far. I am on the verge of dribbling at the prospect mmmmm. ;)
 
BlastRadius said:
I am having trouble tracking down any memory above DDR2-667. I was hoping DDR2-1000 (PC2-8000) is this compatible? Also any specific brand? Any UK vendors.
Click to expand...
It depends on the motherboard you choose - some motherboards will underclock the memory, some will overclock it (rare bug), some will loosen the timings, some will undervolt it (eg it may give 1.8v when the mem needs say 1.9v for stability), and some may just plain refuse to recognize the memory and not boot up.
However 99% of the time compatability with your mobo should not be an issue, especially now most of these issues have been fixed with updated bioses, but I wouldn't specifically recommend you memory, without being 100% sure it will work with whatever mobo you choose.

Ocuk seems to have DDR2 from all the top memory manufacturers. I have purchased items from them in the past and have had no problems.
 
Thanks again Drexion.

I am currently looking at this Memory:

GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 800MHz Ultra Low Latency DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX22GB6400UDC) (MY-058-GL)
GeIL is proud to announced DDR2 800MHz, PC6400 800MHz supports CAS 4-4-4-12 with 1GB and 2GB Dual Channel Kits. These Ultra modules are hand picked for maximum FSB overclocking potential.

- PC6400 800MHz CAS 4-4-4-12
- 64x8 DDR2 BGA Chips
- 240pin, Non-ECC, Un-buffered DDR2 SDRAM DIMM
- Aluminum Heat-spreader
- 6 Layers Ultra Low Noises Shielded PCB
- Lifetime Warranty
- 1.9V-2.3V Power Supply

It seems that this overclocks well and is reasonibly cheap compared to the others at £176.25.

Linky

Also I am now very drawn to the Asus P5W DH Deluxe, I think I will use the extra features. I have found this for less than £140. Although the Asus P5B Deluxe may well be my choice, as having 2 PCIe may sucker me in again.. :mad:

EDIT: Decision reached. Updated first post.
 
BlastRadius said:
Also I am now very drawn to the Asus P5W DH Deluxe, I think I will use the extra features. I have found this for less than £140. Although the Asus P5B Deluxe may well be my choice, as having 2 PCIe may sucker me in again.. :mad:
Click to expand...

I've read elsewhere here on the forums that the i975 OC's the E6600 better then the i965 chipset, so you may do better by going with the P5W DH Deluxe, especially if you think you'll use the extra features... ;)
 
By the way, not sure if you meant this or not, b/c some people get confused about what an "Intel motherboard" means.

Technically you want an "Intel Chipset motherboard".

Intel makes its own line of motherboards which used to NOT overclock at all, then they gradually added a few overclocking options. And the current Intel BadAxe motherboard actually overclocks quite well.

However most people get other brand boards made with Intel Chipsets. Like the Asus P5B, P5W-DH, Gigabyte DS3, DS6, etc...
Those all have the Intel 965 or Intel 975 chipset in them. Those brands like Asus, Abit & Gigabyte usually have BIOS's that are better suited for overclocking, and thats why people get them.

I usually prefer Abit or Asus. This time around Gigabyte was the only decent available option when I ordered my e6600. Had it been available I might have order the Abit AW9D-MAX or the Asus P5W-DH
 
isn't the 975 chipset going to be compatible with the quad core intel? I don't think the 965 is so that might help in choosing a board too... I went with the DS3 and it is a great little mobo but if I had to do it over again I'd go with a 975 chipset for the quad.
 
codename47 said:
isn't the 975 chipset going to be compatible with the quad core intel? I don't think the 965 is so that might help in choosing a board too... I went with the DS3 and it is a great little mobo but if I had to do it over again I'd go with a 975 chipset for the quad.
Click to expand...


Both 965 AND 975 are compatible with quad core. Well... certain 975 boards are, some older ones won't run conroe due to the board design. Basically look at it like this.... if it'll run conroe, it'll run quad core.
 
codename47 said:
hmmm... that is great news then b/c I was told that my DS3 wouldn't run quad... nice :)
Click to expand...

You know what... I may be wrong on all the boards. I KNOW Intel boards will run quad core, and the 3rd party boards SHOULD be able to as well. If it's running Conroe it's using VRM11... so it should work fine. I would guess that if it doesn't work now, it would just need a bios upgrade for support. But then again... who the fuck knows. LOL. You might want to look on XS forums and see if they've ran a Quad Core on that board. I'll poke around and see what I can find.
 
Anybody want to chip in with an answer to my case conundrum. I am unsure which one of my cases to use, the others will be sold. I am leaning towards the Lian-Li partly because of the good airflow and also because of the sliding Mobo mounting plate. It is a bit ugly though.

The choices are:

Thermaltake Tsunami
Lian Li PC-60 Plus
Coolermaster Mystique 631

And as far as Quad Core goes, I think maybe it is a step too far too soon. They still havn't really ever made the switch to 64bit and dual core is still in its infancy. I would prefer these to be well optimised before quad core.

It just seems like laziness, a barrier is reached and the easier route is to have 2 of this four of that eight of the other. Imagine if they treated cars the same, we would all be driving Octo engined buses.
 
Never used a PC60, but the airflow in my PC65B wasn't what I wanted and upgrading to the TT Tsunami fixed my airflow problem right up (this was with a P4 3.2Ghz rig). Still using it now for LAN parties and it keeps the system nice and cool. Not as cool as my coolermaster, but half the price... :p
 
I hope that the DS3 will support quad core. I want one:) ALthough I'll probably end up getting a e6600 that will do 400 x 9.
 
My Gigabyte DQ6 will do quad core for sure, since tomshardware used it for their test benchmarking.

I am currently running PC2-4200 and my E6600 is sitting at 3.15ghz solid.. I will try for more when I get home.

I too was an AMD !!!!!! for the last 3-4 years with the Athlon 64's heading the way but since C2D came out I was very interested after seeing the benchmarks and the overclocking ability. After a month of seeing if I should get the E6400 or E6600, I decided the E6600 would be the best bet.. since it is clocked higher at stock, I figured I could get more out of it than the E6400, plus the 4mb cache was really nice.

So I swapped my Athlon 64 3800, Evga NF41 for the E6600 and DQ6 board... never looked back.
 
I would look for some corsair, crucial, or patriot memory those brands all seem to be getting good results on conroe using 965 and 975 chipsets.
 
BlastRadius said:
The choices are:

Thermaltake Tsunami
Lian Li PC-60 Plus
Coolermaster Mystique 631
Click to expand...

I've dealt with 2 out of the 3, my take is:
Lian Li for looks & best quality
Thermaltake has better airflow & quieter due to the 120mm fans
so a toss up, maybe with a slight edge to the TT for its quietness.


No 1st hand experience with the Coolermaster.
 
The P5W DH Deluxe has been droping in price you might want to consider it. It might be worth the extra $40.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=247085

For memory I would stay away from Geil I have a friend who had bad experiences with it in the past. I recommend OCZ or Corsair.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=85236

For an air cooler the Thermalright Ultra 120 is the best but people have been complaining about its mount. Its tough to get it mounted properly. The Scythe Infinity is the next best and looks to have a better mount.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835109125

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835185027
 
its been said before, and if you check the conroe overclocking database here, you will see that 975 chipsets are better for overclocking the 4mb l2 conroes. the asus p5w-dh in particular, or if you dont mind spending $300 plus, one of the p5w work station boards (64 pro or dg2 pro)
stay away from that ram. there has been inconsistancies with 965/975 compatability, ie stix rma'd back to factory for spd reprogramming.
i dont know if you can get g.skill in uk, but here is a good set.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231065

many,any people using this ram, but price is rising daily. got mine for $60 less 2 months ago.
this is nice ram too, almost as good as the g.skill, a little cheaper
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220095
this ram was $90 cheaper LAST WEEK.
pretty much any ram that will run 1/1 with decent timings will be fine for c2d. so no need for pc8500 or pc1000 ram. with c2d the main thing is to maximize your clock speed. the weeks 26 and higher seem to be better 6600's than the earlier ones. so far there is no golden "stepping" like you got with opteron, x2.
your psu is fine.
i have that lian li case on my terciary machine. it used to be in my gaming machine but it got demoted when i got this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811233003

there is a newer model out with slightly diff front panel, and interchangeable mesh/window side panel, all else being the same.

good luck
 
Ok thanks for the heads up on the RAM guys. I was trying to cut a corner or two, maybe I would have gotten my fingers burnt. The only thing is that I may well have to wait 2-4 weeks before I can start ordering and the cost of RAM is sky rocketing, I may have to bite the bullet and take a chance.

The case that VanillaGuerilla linked does look very nice, I like the fan layout and it does indeed look roomy. Trouble is I already own the three quoted so I am going to try and get by with one of those. The Tsunami looks favourite because it does run cooler, I just think the Lian Li looks more exclusive.

I am scouring for good deals on all the parts, may get my 6600 this weekend while the prices are really low.

Thanks again, all help appreciated. :D
 
I haven't read everyones replies to this yet, I'm sure they're all full of good info.

However, I almost asked these same questions, but instead took a look at the overclocking database thread here because it answered pretty much all of my questions on what to get.

helpful strategy :)
 
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