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Computers Shocking Me!!

J

jokerx225

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
193
Hey i have 3 computers and every single one shocks me or you can feel electricity when you touch the case or just bout anything inside the case. Even when i touch my Crt Screen and rub my finger against it i can feel electricity why is this and is it bad???

Also its only somtimes like right now its not doing it which is rare....
 
odds on favorite
your house has no ground

Installing Isolated Ground plugs
the cautions in that article should be taken very seriously, people die

best to have an electrician do it if your not handy with electricity
outlet testers are cheap and available at most hardware stores
 
My question is how are you touching these computers? They may be trying to tell you something.....like no..... :p ;) :p
 
Ice Czar said:
outlet testers are cheap and available at most hardware stores
Click to expand...

Yep quickest way to find out if it's you or the Electrons. Just plug it into the outlet and through a combination of leds it'll tell you watts watt

Would a UPS isolate the ground issue?
 
OPUS1 said:
Yep quickest way to find out if it's you or the Electrons. Just plug it into the outlet and through a combination of leds it'll tell you watts watt

Would a UPS isolate the ground issue?
Click to expand...
An APC UPS will tell you if the outlet is properly grounded, but if it isn't then you still must have a electrician fix it.
 
well provided there usnt any contact to the case of components...
its not really a safe electronics environment or even that great for you
(like if you where wet with a real ground contact)

its possible if your using a cheap surge protector its shot
(the MOVs having shorted out to ground)
then there is ground current
since you have no ground there likely is current flowwing in your data lines and thats not good for data integrity and component reliability


heres a bit more
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-16225.html
 
I have a Belkin 8 outlet power bar and I don't have that problem. One of these days, I"ll upgrade to 10 outlets. :D
 
I just disassembled a small surge protector, similar to what some of you may be using, and here is what I found: There are metal oxide varistors (MOV)'s connected between the hot and neutral legs, between neutral and ground, and between hot and ground. If you have a similar unit and it has an input power cord attached, and if you have it plugged into one of those 3 prong to 2 prong adapters because your outlet has no ground slot, you have a potential hazard. The ground wire in your computer's power cord is connected to the case of your computer. The ground wire in the power cord is in turn connected to an MOV in the surge suppressor which is connected to the hot leg, and of course the suppressor's ground is isolated because of the adapter. The MOV will conduct some current and you will be able to read line voltage between the case and a good ground or neutral. I just tried it on the bench by applying 120 volts to the hot terminal and I read 120 volts on the isolated ground terminal. If that particular MOV failed in the shorted mode, which is the most likely failure mode, then your computer case would be connected to the hot leg. You would then be possibly electrocuted if you were to touch the case and a good ground at the same time. Of course the solution is to plug the surge suppressor's cord into only a grounded outlet. Connecting the 3 to 2 wire adapter's green wire to the center screw of the outlet is no solution unless you verify that the box is grounded. On the side of safety, I would not assume that the screw and the box in the wall are grounded. I would not recommend using the 3 to 2 wire adapters on the output of the suppressor either, because doing so would isolate the grounds of your case, monitor, etc. and would possibly cause other problems. The only solution that would "meet code", I believe, is to rewire the outlet with appropriate conductor and install a 3 prong outlet. I realize that is not going to happen in a lot of cases. I hesitate to make any recommendation, but if it were mine I would attach the adapter's pigtail to some nearby known grounded object, or anything metal that you would be most likely to touch at the same time as the case. This would bond the case and the object so they would be at the same potential and you would at least not be hurt, but it ain't "legal" either. Note that I said bond and not ground. You could also open up the suppressor and remove any MOV or capacitor connected between hot and ground. They would have no function without a ground anyway. So yes, you probably did feel a tingle.
Click to expand...

MOV’s: SACRIFICIAL BY DESIGN
MOV’s are the mainstay component of the surge protector industry. For certain electronic applications they are an excellent choice. For AC power line surge protectors they are not a good choice. MOV’s function by creating a short circuit (usually to the neutral and the ground) when a preset voltage threshold is exceeded. Essentially they divert surge current away from what the surge protector is protecting. Unfortunately MOV’s are sacrificial components. This means that the performance life of any surge protector utilizing this technology is finite. With every surge current diversion above a modest level an MOV comes closer to its inevitable end. Surge protector with an exploded MOV

JOULE RATING/SURGE CURRENT LIMITATIONS

The joule rating of any MOV is a measure of the amount of energy it can absorb at one time without failing. With an MOV this level declines with use.
When exceeded it can cause an explosion or a fire. In a harsh, lightning prone environment this limit can easily be reached. The massive inductor used in our Brick Wall Surge Protectors limits current (hence voltage) and has no real world surge current/joule rating limitations. Our surge protectors can withstand the harshest surge environment indefinitely.

THERMAL RUNAWAY (FIRE)

Clamping threshold is the voltage level where the MOV activates. Typically it is set around 220V at 1 milliamp current. With the peak of the sine wave normally at 172V, a surge of only an additional 50V will activate that MOV. Just as repeated usage causes the joule limit of an MOV to drop it can also cause the clamping level to do the same. Eventually the clamping point can fall below the peak of the normal sine wave. In essence the MOV turns on with every cycle of the powerwave and experiences thermal runaway (fire). This characteristic of an MOV made them totally unacceptable to our engineers. Our surge protector products do not utilize MOV’s and have none of their inherent limitations. Brickwall Surge Protectors will not catch on fire.
Click to expand...

Almost all manufacturers of shunt mode surge protectors (those utilizing MOV’s) design their products to divert surge current equally between the ground and neutral wires. A surge protector should not divert surge current to the ground wire.


DATA LINE PROTECTION?

Our sales staff repeatedly hears this same story: It seems a company has experienced considerable surge damage to electronic equipment. The shunt mode surge protectors would appear to have done their job by protecting the loads from the front end (power line). The damage, in their estimation, resulted from surge current that traveled down the data lines. How do they know this? All the damage appears to have originated at the data ports, hence they conclude that the surge must have traveled this route. Their solution: They need data line surge protectors.

They are right in as much as the damaging current did propagate through the data lines. However, damaging surges do not originate in dataline circuits.

Their systems do not need data line surge protectors. Interconnected systems need powerline surge protectors that do not divert surge current to the ground wire.
INTERCONNECTED SYSTEMS AND GROUND LOOP CONTAMINATION

Interconnected (networked) systems, so prevalent in today’s commercial/industrial world, have made shunt mode technology used in most surge protectors (origins 1972) inappropriate. Equipment sharing common power and data lines form circuits between themselves via the ground wire (both referenced at the load). What does current do in a closed circuit? It flows. A powerline surge diverted to the ground wire by a shunt mode surge protector will make its way to the chassis, through the motherboard (which is also grounded at the chassis), onto and through the data lines (which use the powerline ground as a voltage reference and are also connected at the motherboard) and to the data ports of the rest of the connected system. This is how most data line surges originate.
DATA LINE NOISE

Smaller surges diverted to ground wires by a shunt mode surge protector may not immediately damage equipment (though the cumulative effect can eventually cause failures). On the other hand, low level surge current diverted to the data lines by a shunt mode surge protector (via the ground wire) can immediately scramble data, slow down data transfer and cause mis-operations or lock-ups as a consequence of its effect as system noise (unwanted current on the data lines).
Click to expand...

"If P.T. Barnum were alive today... he'd be selling surge suppressors"- UL Technician
 
From the sounds of it that ground on the outlets is really bad as mentioned before. It could just be that one circuit that's bad or the electrician that installed your breaker/fuse box deserves to be shot. But for the sake of safety I would suggest getting one of those outlet testers or even a good multimeter to check the outlets with. If the problem isn't just related to that one circuit you could very well have a serious problem. If an electric heater or anything that moves a lot of current kicks on and some one/thing touches it and grounds it you could have a serious safety risk.

Out of curiosity do you notice a lot of dead insects laying around your microwave when it gets turned on?
 
davidhammock200 said:
but priced a littlte to high for the average user.
Click to expand...

compared to what?

Monster? :p
they are a fraction of the price ;)

either you get a real power surge scheme or rely on MOVs
those are relatively affordable nonMOV surge protectors and better than whats in most lineinteractive UPSs which also tend to be MOV
 
are they really that expensive when you consider they can protect your $2000 computer system :D
 
MrGuvernment said:
are they really that expensive when you consider they can protect your $2000 computer system :D
Click to expand...
I wish the "average" user was willing to invest 10% of their total system cost in a good PSU! ;)
 
Spectre said:
My question is how are you touching these computers? They may be trying to tell you something.....like no..... :p ;) :p
Click to expand...


I got a good laugh outta that :)
 
when you touch the case? :eek: :eek: that would Never happen if your electronics are properly grounded.
 
Let me see if I have this straight, are you getting an electrical shock, as in 120 volts? Or is this a static shock as in a a spark jumping?

If its an electrical shock, it's very strange that this is happening on multiple machines. Are these all plugged into the same outlet, or circuit? Even if the hot and ground were reversed the machines still wouldn't operate.
 
Ice Czar, I read the thread you linked to about that isolated ground, and just wanted to say that tutorial is definitely not up to current, or recent NEC. A grounding conductor isolated or not, always needs to be ran with the circuit conductors and terminate at the same point as the circuit conductors. Running to a ground rod is not a good idea, although it probably works, an inspector would have a coronary, (at least most of the ones I know would:))
 
Be glad to, just ran into some links to support my concern. I haven't wired any isolated receptacles for computers in a commercial environment for a number of years now. Used to be the thing to do twenty some years ago when maybe equipment wasn't what it is today, and even now there is controversy about its effectiveness.

Now hospitals and crital care areas are a different story.
 
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