Computer Speakers - 5.1 does not mean better!

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007webgod

n00b
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
8
First, I don't know jack when it comes to all the tech stuff with speakers. However, I'll throw in my .02 cents here from my own personal experience.

I recently replaced a 15 year old set of Altec Lansing ACS 33 speakers connected directly to the motherboard with some Logitech X-540 5.1 speakers connected to a Creative XFI Extreme Gamer Sound Card. I was very disappointed in the "upgrade". You'd think that brand new 5.1 surround sound speakers with a total of 140 watts would completely blow away an old tired set of 25 watt speakers, especially when accompanied with a new sound card. Wrong!

The old Altec's were capable of loud and booming but still sounded good all the way through the volume knob. No, they weren't perfect but they did what I wanted them to - they always sounded good and they boomed when turned up.

The X-540's are a different story. Sure it's kind of cool being immersed in surround sound - I can hear it on the left, the right, the front, and the back - but it also makes my ears hurt cause all this sound that's surrounding me sounds like it's coming from tin cans. Yea, I can alleviate the tin can sound by turning the bass dial and the vibrating boom will literally drown it out, along with all the other sounds and words, but this isn't exactly the quality or performance I was hoping to achieve.

Furthermore, they do radically different things depending on what you're listening to. Youtube videos can't be heard if the matrix button is pushed. Why? I don't know. MP3's can't even be heard until the volume knob is turned 1/4 to 1/2 way. What's up with that? Half the volume knob is pretty much useless. Tried listening to a local radio station online that's available in either a 32KB or 64KB stream. The 64 sounds way off and the 32 isn't much better. Can't listen to either if the matrix button is pushed. The 64 always sounded fine with the old speakers.

Not everything sounds bad. I tried several different types of MP3's that I have on my computer - Ozzy, Lean Like a Cholo, and Tracy Adkin's Honky Tonk to name a few. I was able to get them all to sound good if I messed with the volume and bass and matrix button enough. Lean Like a Cholo was actually pretty cool with the bass cranked up. I could hear it on the other side of my house standing outside! But bumpin gangsta music aside, it's like trying to find a happy medium between metallic tin can sounds and over powering bass - the bass literally has to be adjusted to drown out the tin can sound.

Again, not everything sounds bad. Fired up the new Command & Conquer Red Alert game and it sounded very good. It was loud and booming and I felt completely immersed in the game - my ears actually hurt after playing it. I suppose if I was 15 this would be really totally cool and awesome.

In short, 5.1 definitely does not mean better. If your into gaming and bleeding ears then go for 5.1 - the X-540, G51, or Z-5500 are probably all excellent choices IMHO. I'm looking for something that will work with games but sounds good with everything else and is still capable of bumpin the house off the foundation.

These X-540's are definitely going back. I'm tempted to try the Z-5500's but I think it would be a waste of time and money for me. I think I'll try the 2.1 Z-2300's and see how that goes.
 
You are complaining how you bought crap and and are now looking to buy more speakers without any research or care?
If you want good sound, dont buy computer package speakers and read up on what is good.
You should have learnt from your mistake already before even posting here, but you arent demonstrating any common sense.
Its your money I spose, but theres no point in complaining if you arent careful with your money.

edit:knackers, I meant to make a new post, not edit this one :)
 
It kinda looks that the issues you're having are caused by soundcard/drivers. Have you excluded that chance?
 
Nenu said:
You are complaining how you bought crap and and are now looking to buy more speakers without any research or care?
If you want good sound, dont buy computer package speakers and read up on what is good.
You should have learnt from your mistake already before even posting here, but you arent demonstrating any common sense.
Its your money I spose, but theres no point in complaining if you arent careful with your money.
Click to expand...

Chill out there buddy. :)

I wish I had done more research before buying but didn't really think it necessary. My Altec Lansing's I bought 15 years ago were bought at Staples for $40 with no research whatsoever. I've been extremely happy them. I made the assumption that a higher number, 5.1, with more speakers and more wattage would obviously mean better. I was wrong.

I wish I had come across this site before buying. I've been reading thread after thread the past couple days on here. Spaceman's thread on "alternatives to computer speakers" was very interesting but unfortunately over my head. I made it about halfway through the 7 pages and gave up.

I've noticed reading through these threads that newbs will ask questions like how do I hook these up or what cables do I need - they seem like very simple obvious questions that I would ask and also need an answer to - but the answers are usually written in some other language that I don't understand. Again, feel free to flame me as I'm leaving myself wide open but even after reading through these threads on alternatives to computer speakers I don't feel comfortable in making a purchase of Behringer MS20's and a Dayton SUB-80 8". I don't think I'd know how to hook them up. I've got four inputs on my X-Fi soundcard and one is for a mic. If the speakers aren't going to come with the necessary cables ready to plug in I'm not gonna know how to hook them up. And if there's a problem I can't just take them back to Best Buy. I'll be stuck with paying shipping.
 
idiotsannoyme said:
It kinda looks that the issues you're having are caused by soundcard/drivers. Have you excluded that chance?
Click to expand...

I don't think that's the case as the speakers seem to work fine with gaming and I am able to get them to sound good with most mp3's. Also, I had my old speakers hooked up to the sound card and they worked fine. However, the streaming video and youtube issue was odd. I think it's just these speakers lack good sound. They make noise and they make it loud and they make it all around you with the surround sound but the quality is lacking. :(
 
Go easy on the new guy please. Welcome to hardforums and please ignore the negatives.

You are right, they are not good speakers. Just loud and boomy crapola.

If you stay with logitech, you will continue to get the same crappy sound.

Look to powered monitors like these for the best bang for your buck:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AV40/
 
007webgod said:
Chill out there buddy. :)

I wish I had done more research before buying but didn't really think it necessary. My Altec Lansing's I bought 15 years ago were bought at Staples for $40 with no research whatsoever. I've been extremely happy them. I made the assumption that a higher number, 5.1, with more speakers and more wattage would obviously mean better. I was wrong.

I wish I had come across this site before buying. I've been reading thread after thread the past couple days on here. Spaceman's thread on "alternatives to computer speakers" was very interesting but unfortunately over my head. I made it about halfway through the 7 pages and gave up.

I've noticed reading through these threads that newbs will ask questions like how do I hook these up or what cables do I need - they seem like very simple obvious questions that I would ask and also need an answer to - but the answers are usually written in some other language that I don't understand. Again, feel free to flame me as I'm leaving myself wide open but even after reading through these threads on alternatives to computer speakers I don't feel comfortable in making a purchase of Behringer MS20's and a Dayton SUB-80 8". I don't think I'd know how to hook them up. I've got four inputs on my X-Fi soundcard and one is for a mic. If the speakers aren't going to come with the necessary cables ready to plug in I'm not gonna know how to hook them up. And if there's a problem I can't just take them back to Best Buy. I'll be stuck with paying shipping.
Click to expand...


I didnt mean to be nasty but felt you needed a reality check.
I'm sure you will get the help you need.

I'll start with a few q's...
How much can you spend max?
Do you live in a detached house or do you have neighbors to consider?
Are there any space constraints or reason why you cant/prefer not to use floor standing speakers?
Are you still interested in 5.1?

How to hook the wires up is the least of the issues, we can help with that.
 
007webgod said:
Chill out there buddy. :)

I wish I had done more research before buying but didn't really think it necessary. My Altec Lansing's I bought 15 years ago were bought at Staples for $40 with no research whatsoever. I've been extremely happy them. I made the assumption that a higher number, 5.1, with more speakers and more wattage would obviously mean better. I was wrong.

I wish I had come across this site before buying. I've been reading thread after thread the past couple days on here. Spaceman's thread on "alternatives to computer speakers" was very interesting but unfortunately over my head. I made it about halfway through the 7 pages and gave up.

I've noticed reading through these threads that newbs will ask questions like how do I hook these up or what cables do I need - they seem like very simple obvious questions that I would ask and also need an answer to - but the answers are usually written in some other language that I don't understand. Again, feel free to flame me as I'm leaving myself wide open but even after reading through these threads on alternatives to computer speakers I don't feel comfortable in making a purchase of Behringer MS20's and a Dayton SUB-80 8". I don't think I'd know how to hook them up. I've got four inputs on my X-Fi soundcard and one is for a mic. If the speakers aren't going to come with the necessary cables ready to plug in I'm not gonna know how to hook them up. And if there's a problem I can't just take them back to Best Buy. I'll be stuck with paying shipping.
Click to expand...

I agree with you completely! I been reading this forum and hardocp since 99 and I am no newb but sometimes the answers given on here are overly complected (deliberately so).
I think that people on here don't think when they give an answer. Its the most technical answer they themselves could understand, and not all of us are electronic engineers. We shouldn't have to have a degree in sound engineering to hook up the speakers we bought and when it is difficult and we ask for help we get answers that we have to research. It is always a good idea to look things up and learn, but sometimes people don't have the time and they come to places like this for a quick and easy answer. Its when we give over complicated answers that we turn people off to our community. I have noticed that we have gotten very snarky lately not just in here but many of the other parts of the forum. We should present ourselves as a helpful and insightful group the is willing to help and educate new members not some elitist group that snubs every person that doesn't know something. I know we have a search function and some of these questions are asked a million times a day. What I don't understand is why we don't have more stickies with some of the more FAQs posted. Well enough of my rant. Sorry
 
Nenu said:
I didnt mean to be nasty but felt you needed a reality check.
I'm sure you will get the help you need.

I'll start with a few q's...
How much can you spend max?
Do you live in a detached house or do you have neighbors to consider?
Are there any space constraints or reason why you cant/prefer not to use floor standing speakers?
Are you still interested in 5.1?

How to hook the wires up is the least of the issues, we can help with that.
Click to expand...

I'd want to keep it under $500 total. That's including everything, cabling, add ons, tax, shipping, etc.

No neighbors to consider. Loud is good. Bass is good. Don't want ear screeching tin can sound with a bass dial to cover it up like these X-540's.

No space constraints really but I don't want giant floor speakers either. These are going on my desk, or near my desk, for my computer in my bedroom. I have a fairly large bedroom, though. I could live with 15" high speakers if they were worth it.

No, not really interested in 5.1. I don't need sound coming from behind me and from the sides. I was under the impression 5.1 meant more speakers which meant louder, better sound.

Any talk with amps, recievers, decs, cabling, etc, etc, and, wooooosh, over my head. All I know is I have a Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer sound card that has 4 holes in the back - orange, black, green and white. The white is for mic/headphones, which I will never use, and the other 3 for speakers. Before installing the sound card I simply used the onboard sound from the ABIT KN8 Ultra motherboard, which seemed to work fine. Wondering now if I even needed the sound card.

Also, I'm not a complete idiot when it comes to computers. I actually built this computer myself a couple years ago. I just have no clue when it comes to speakers and sound.
 
Speakers and receivers are easier than a pc so you will be fine.

I would just get a Denon AVR 589
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BNX5I4

Use these as your front 2 main speakers

http://www.thespeakercompany.com/P6-PR-65-2-way-Bookshelf-Speaker-Pair-P37C6.aspx

Use these for your center and rear surrounds
http://www.thespeakercompany.com/LCR3-P-Series-Home-Theater-Front-Speakers-P41C6.aspx

Get this sub

http://www.thespeakercompany.com/ASW-8-8-Subwoofer-P61C17.aspx

Now all you have to do is connect some wires and follow a few written instructions from the receiver manual.

Nothing else will compete with this. You can save $100 by going with a less expensive Onkyo 606 or Pioneer 518 receiver.
 
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007webgod said:
I'd want to keep it under $500 total. That's including everything, cabling, add ons, tax, shipping, etc.

No neighbors to consider. Loud is good. Bass is good. Don't want ear screeching tin can sound with a bass dial to cover it up like these X-540's.

No space constraints really but I don't want giant floor speakers either. These are going on my desk, or near my desk, for my computer in my bedroom. I have a fairly large bedroom, though. I could live with 15" high speakers if they were worth it.

No, not really interested in 5.1. I don't need sound coming from behind me and from the sides. I was under the impression 5.1 meant more speakers which meant louder, better sound.

Any talk with amps, recievers, decs, cabling, etc, etc, and, wooooosh, over my head. All I know is I have a Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer sound card that has 4 holes in the back - orange, black, green and white. The white is for mic/headphones, which I will never use, and the other 3 for speakers. Before installing the sound card I simply used the onboard sound from the ABIT KN8 Ultra motherboard, which seemed to work fine. Wondering now if I even needed the sound card.

Also, I'm not a complete idiot when it comes to computers. I actually built this computer myself a couple years ago. I just have no clue when it comes to speakers and sound.
Click to expand...

Well then its simple most computer speaker systems come with color coded cables that correspond to the jacks on the back of the card. If they don't then it still pretty simple the green jack is for the front speakers. So that will be what you want for a 2.1 system. Well for a budget like that you are pretty open. You could build your own 2.1 system. It is not really difficult with most of the 2.0 systems suggested on here. They have clearly labeled jacks on them and clear and concise directions. Most of these 2.0 speaker systems suggested on here have jacks for a subs, and an appropriated sub is usually suggest in the tread. Just do a search for 2.1 systems and you will see a ton of suggestions. There are also some really good 2.1 systems from swan. I don't know if they are going to have the punch that you were looking for. I had those altec's that you are talking about and they were really nice. There are nicer systems now. You just have to look. You are right more speakers don't mean better sound. You can find some 5.1 systems for less then 50 bucks and they will sound like crap. If you have anymore question just ask.
 
I was gonna say he has to old guy excuse regarding the ACS 33s from 15 years ago...but it was released 9 1/2 years ago...
 
Just for my own curiousity... If the front main speakers go into the green port where would the 2 rear speakers hook up to?

Also do "non" computer speakers still require a good sound card to sound good? And what is the diff between a good sound card and a DAC? You guys made them out to sound similar (ok not in this thread but in another).
 
The port next to that one.
The soundcard manual will tell you definitively.
If you dont have the manual, use creatives How To section
http://www.creative.com/products/soundblaster/howto/

Alternatively, just plug it in, set CMSS to expand sound to rear stereo and you should get the same sound out of the back and front speakers.
If you dont get sound from the rear speakers, try plugging them in the front speaker socket to make sure they do work, then try other holes to find which one.
 
To answer your edit...

The DAC is a Digital to Analogue Converter.
It takes the digitally represented sound (in the PC) and converts it to analogue to be amplified by an analogue amplifier.
Nearly every amplifier is analogue even if it can receive digital input.

The soundcard has a DAC and so does your amp, its up to you which gets used.
(ie digital out from PC uses the DAC in your amp, analogue out from PC uses the DAC in your soundcard)
For the best sound quality, the better DAC should be used.
If you dont know which is best, try both and see which you prefer.
Beware that often one connection will be louder than the other, dont mistake that for better quality.

Depending how you connect things up depends on what needs to be good quality.
For example, if you are using Digital Out, you dont care if your soundcard has good Analogue out because you wont be using it.
So make sure something has a good DAC and use that.
Make sure you have a decent quality amp (which may/may not have a decent DAC) and decent quality speakers and that the speakers have good speaker wire and the speakers are positioned well as this affects bass and how warm/tinny the sound is.
ie speakers cose to a wall will have more bass but it will likely be boomy.
Pull the speakers away from the wall until the bass is satisfactory.
A lack of bass will sound tinny.

The situation is further complicated because many soundcards cannot output 5.1 gaming sounds via digital, so for those you will either have to use 2.0 via digital or use 5.1 via analogue.
Your soundcard does support DDL for 5.1 via digital but you have to buy the package
http://buy.soundblaster.com/_creati...are&category=Software&pid=F2222DDN6Z2H2ADDEZD
 
If you were using onboard sound and $40 speakers, the Z-5500 will probably be good enough for you. I got a set for under $150, and I love it. I use my HD TV as my monitor, and the Z-5500's for PC and TV sound. It sounds good to me with very little adjustment, using the optical digital out on my onboard 7.1.

I'm sure a full sound system setup will sound better and be more useful in general. However, I can feed the digital signals from my PC and TV directly into the Z-5500 (and the other stuff feeds into the TV), so a full receiver wouldn't add much utility for me. Likewise, the Z-5500 sounds good enough to me. For my own situation, I couldn't justify spending 3 or 4 times as much for what I'd get out of it. Along those same lines, I don't think I'd pay the $300 that the Z-5500 retails for either.
 
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