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Manaknight

Supreme [H]ardness
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Jun 6, 2005
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I recently opened up a local custom shop out of my home, it wasn't my original plan but i'm having enough kids at my college ask me to build them a "cool looking budget system that can play games" that i figured i'd open up shop. here is my problem however. after my first few initial builds and reading around here and other websites i've realized that i'm a bit behind the times on builds. for example, all the systems i have built recently were barton xp chipsets, is it time to start baselining my systems on 64's? even my budget builds? also what should be my absolute lowest budget gaming video card? these are the questions i keep running into. i mean i know how to build, customize and support systems but when it comes to dating hardware i'm a bit off. i could use some help guys. i have a stack of orders with set budgets and i want to be able to make something worth giving these people to keep them coming to me instead of being wowed by the specs of an e-machine, because i can tell some people til i'm blue in the face about shared memory etc. but its that looking good on paper part that can hurt. anyway some ideas on budget and up builds would be cool. a good example is i have to build an ok gaming rig on a 600 budget incl monitor and still make a bit of a profit, i don't have to buy xp at least (they had an extra copy from their "family" computer). um well yeah..help :p
 
I priced out a cheap A64 system for gaming for you. Unfortunately I couldn't include a monitor in the price deal, but here is an idea for you. You can change the case to whatever you'd like same for ram, and if they dont need a dvd burner downgrade to just a cd burner.
For the price the mobo/cpu combo though is one of the best for A64s out there. Also the ram is also high quality for a cheap price.

Subtotal: $675.48

EPoX EP-9NDA3J Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce3 Ultra ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813123230

Antec Life Style SONATA Piano Black 380W Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811129127

Nec 3520a
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16827152049

Seagate Barracuda 80GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822148040

crucial 512MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820146532

AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819103537

SAPPHIRE ULTIMATE RADEON 9600XT 128MB DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814102342


I hope this helps somewhat for you.
 
so then its pretty much go 64 nowadays? the rest of the parts look fairly similar to what i was building. that will up the prices a bit but overall its pretty close to what i came up with
 
Manaknight said:
so then its pretty much go 64 nowadays? the rest of the parts look fairly similar to what i was building. that will up the prices a bit but overall its pretty close to what i came up with
Click to expand...

yeah A64 is where its at really.

AXP systems are still fairly good, but not the best bang for the buck. Any other questions?
 
If not a 64, a 32-bit sempron with the on-die mem controller will still do very well in games.
 
cool, thanks for the news. i'll probly still keep to xp's for those looking to upgrade a processor on a current socket A board, but for a full build i'll look to 64. also thanks for the sempron info, i really have very little information on them other than general amd info. i figured they were just the amd version of the celeron and i wrote them off.
 
If you are really on a budget, you could go with socket 754 athlon 64's, as they tend to be a bit cheaper. I could recommend 939, but many consumers do not care, nor would they notice a difference in performance. Heck, even some 754's outpeform 939's per clock due to the extra cache.

Of course, the motherboard + cpu combo listed above gives excellent performance for the price, and is hard to beat.

It is your choice.

Just some advice: make sure you make it worthwhile to put together these systems. Make sure your profit margin is enough so that it is worth your time to assemble and load the OS and everything. If you only make $50 bucks, but spend 10 hrs building and loading OS stuff, for example, this is only 5 bucks an hr...less than mininum wage...

Just my $.02.
 
DarkenReaper57 said:
If you are really on a budget, you could go with socket 754 athlon 64's, as they tend to be a bit cheaper. I could recommend 939, but many consumers do not care, nor would they notice a difference in performance. Heck, even some 754's outpeform 939's per clock due to the extra cache.

Of course, the motherboard + cpu combo listed above gives excellent performance for the price, and is hard to beat.

It is your choice.

Just some advice: make sure you make it worthwhile to put together these systems. Make sure your profit margin is enough so that it is worth your time to assemble and load the OS and everything. If you only make $50 bucks, but spend 10 hrs building and loading OS stuff, for example, this is only 5 bucks an hr...less than mininum wage...

Just my $.02.
Click to expand...

you bring up an excellent point. i ahve researched this thoroughly, as it is i usually markup 15-20%, i figure that covers a warranty that may or may not be used, and of course if they want a more extreme mod the price goes up. the last system i built cost me 460 to make but i charged 600, they were happy too cause the system i built smoked their old sony vaio p4, the actual work isn't that hard, a basic build + install takes what? 3 hours being generous? the longest part is researching parts and finding good prices and/or reputable vendors depending how "safe" i want to be with the particular customer. as it is i usually make abou 75-100 bucks for about 5 hours work, which is fine to pay for my cell phone, WoW bill, and website hosting.
 
although 754 is good it isnt that much cheaper imo

I changed out the cpu and mobo for the 754 versions and it still comes out to about the 939 system. If you need places to order from I'd recommend newegg.com, tigerdirect.com, mwave.com! I've ordered thousands of dollars of components from all those sites without problems.

Total: $669.02


AMD Athlon 64 2800+ Newcastle Integrated into Chip FSB Socket 754
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819103485

DFI LANPARTY UT nF3 250Gb Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce3 250
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813136147
 
I simply recommend using www.pricegrabber.com and www.pricewatch.com to get the cheapest as much as possible. But you may / may not have to deal with longer shipping times. Then again, if you're going to be opening up a shop, I would recommend you to pre-order a bunch of stuff before the customers ask. Having a system for them within 24 Hrs is very impressive to tell you the truth. They will like a "homemade" system done in a few hours. You should also make sure the system is stable and actually tell them that it was "hard-tested" and "pushed to the maximum" and in result, is perfectly stable.

I'm not sure if this is permittable by your standards but you CAN buy a bunch of 3000+ CPU's and if they ask for a 3200+, you overclock it to that speed (but you have to make sure it's stable). It will save you a lil' bit of money and make them happy/impressed as well. But I'm not sure if that's etiquette for you.

To answer you on the Crucial vs. Twinmos question-- the Crucial is the baseline form for RAM, meaning it is the safest, reliable RAM for everyday use, including gaming. It is not better than the TwinMOS "SP" RAM. That SP RAM is "premium" as it already says-- and it's known to be great for overclocking and tight timings. You might want to use SP for your customers asking for a gaming / overclocked system. That's the best choice there.

Sempron is great as well. But please be aware if the customer wants upgradability. One might be upset 2 years later to find out that their CPU socket doesn't support the X2 cpu or whatnot.

Also since you are behind a bit on the "standard" system specifications of today, include all base system with AT LEAST the following:

CPU - Intel: 2.8 GHz or AMD: 2800+ or better
RAM - 512 MB PC3200 or better
PSU - Depending on the system, but always add headroom! At least high 12V/5V amp (or 400W on Fortron/Sparkle/Antec PSU's). Consider that heat will reduce a PSU's efficiency headroom and the fact that the more hardware usage in a short amount of time can reach the limits of amps!
Motherboard - Most stable compatible chipset with most stable reputation (Asus, Chaintech, etc).
GPU - Most stable/trusted brand -- you can use onboard graphics but if user wants gaming, at least a 6600 GT or a 9800 for the cheap.
HDD - Hitachi, Maxtor, Western Digital - 80GB 7200 RPM or better
Optical drives - At least a CD-RW or if user requests -- at least DVD-RW + and - format.
Floppy / USB Drive - Ask user if they want floppy-- if not, inform them of the USB DRIVE technology.
Monitor: At least a good 19 inch flat screen CRT (trinitron / diamondtron-based) or a 17" + LCD if they ask -- you might want to do some research on that.
Keyboard / Mouse - Wireless or not? Regular Microsoft keyboards are the de facto acceptable standard. They are of good quality and will hardly break down over many years of usage! Logitech of course is great as well. Mouse should be standard MS 3.0a or of course, MX510/MX518 or the MX1000.

Hope this helps. Also word of notice-- keep your builds and prices *consistent* or better. Because of how word of mouth is, many will compare the PC's you built to one other person's PC you built too. And when they find something unfair going on-- you will go down quick.

Some thoughts, t'care.

-J.
 
^ thank you that was very informative. a note on the prices, i usually sit down with them and get an idea of exactly what they want or their needs are, and tell them what they are getting accordingly, this arrangement makes pricing fit a little better per person without causing the trouble you mentioned. and yeah thanks for the info, i was a bit behind, parts wise most builds usually have a gig or ram (crucial or corsair) (standard if its a gaming system), abit motherboards, 400w sparkles, where i was stuck was vid cards and cpu especially. and yeah overclocking is fine, and while it was a good idea i don't have the overhead to keep a part stock, i tell people that shipping and customizing takes some time so its a few days. Everyone has been cool with that so far. i'd love to have oh hand but i just can't afford it, so right now every pc is ordered the same day i get the order.

but again thanks for the info, this stuff helps alot
 
no problem, Im considering doing this in NJ myself as I have no job and need a way to make some $.
 
People who usually buy pre-built systems get a bigger kick out of aesthetic upgrades rather then speed..
LOL :D
 
Jasonx82 said:
People who usually buy pre-built systems get a bigger kick out of aesthetic upgrades rather then speed..
LOL :D
Click to expand...

rofl yeah thats true. I built my aunt a computer and i was telling her how good it was. And I got her the mx510 logitech mouse and all she could say was wow this blue is nice and it feels so smooth.

Gotta love non-ethusiasts
 
:p This brings up another point for you manaknight. My friend wanted to buy a Thermaltake case. I was against that and I told him to go for other types such as the Wavemaster. I told him it was in better quality and everything was basically better. He argued and said the Thermaltake looked better. So I told him, "You prefer looks over function then?" I will basically copy paste what my "non-enthusiast" friend said to me to my question:

Carey said:
Sigh... But, ehh. I don't like the way the Wavemaster looks. I know quality is important. I do look at it in a significant matter but how can I enjoy my new PC if I dont like the way it looks, y'know? With the ThermalTake Tsunami, I know I'll love my PC even more, and feel more "motivated" with it for some reason.
Click to expand...

This SHOULD reflect all, if not most computer buyers!!! Consider how the case would appeal to the buyer as well. It sometimes matter a whole lot more than just the components inside.

-J.
 
GeForceX said:
:p This brings up another point for you manaknight. My friend wanted to buy a Thermaltake case. I was against that and I told him to go for other types such as the Wavemaster. I told him it was in better quality and everything was basically better. He argued and said the Thermaltake looked better. So I told him, "You prefer looks over function then?" I will basically copy paste what my "non-enthusiast" friend said to me to my question:



This SHOULD reflect all, if not most computer buyers!!! Consider how the case would appeal to the buyer as well. It sometimes matter a whole lot more than just the components inside.

-J.
Click to expand...

this is actually the bread and butter how i make my money, what got me started was a friend of a friend, she is sort of the raver punk chick type and saw a pc i built that had sound reactive lighting, she wanted one to have in her dorm when they would party or get high or whatever kids these days do (i'm in my early 20's but am pretty much far removed from campus culture...i love metal no one's ever heard of and dislike most of the youth culture nowadays). long story short i bought a cheapy case, cut a cool looking window into it, and put a bunch of UV lights and made them sound reactive, was cheap to do and made me some bank. what i've learned is you won't really cater to true enthusiasts, they most likely will build their own. you're crowd is going to be the emachine capability but cooler looking or casual gamer that wants to look cooler than his other friends when they play battlefield vietnam or the like

Brando457 said:
no problem, Im considering doing this in NJ myself as I have no job and need a way to make some $.
Click to expand...

thats what prompted me to it, got strongarmed into quitting my old job, didn't want to ever see retail again, know my tech, know how to sell, just need some cash to pay my little amount of bills and put gas in the car = a good solution
 
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