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Computer build gone wrong!!

I agree with the above desertation, I have had a few clients with much the same issues. The finding of the non-connected p4 power connector was the biggest reason for power/stability issues.

However, I am going to stress that you use standoffs and screws on ALL of the available mounting holes! Stresses from HSFs, video cards, memory stick insertions can cause the mobo's pcb to flex, resulting in cards and memory poping loose. I have even seen where someone did this and pushed so hard to get the memory to seat, that traces were broken in the mobo. How did I know? No boot... press on center of board, system boot! For lack of installing a few standoffs, gentleman destroyed a $200 mobo!
 
^^What CaptAngryPants said^^

Use all possible standoffs when mounting a motherboard, I would NOT use any red paper washers, the standoffs help ground the case.
 
OK, first things first. WOW! there is so many reasons that this isn't working out for you...

When installing a mobo, always use all the available standoff, they are there for a reason and its not to waist you time installing it.
I can't for the life of me think of a reason that you wouldn't have plugged in the 4pin p4 connector, but that would have been a big factor.
when i first read the post, the first thing that came to mind was power outlet. As you have already covered, the outlets that he is using are clearly over stressed. Get a UPS! even if i doesn't seem to be working, it will save his ass when his circuit blows. and it will.

I know that all of this has been mentioned already, but i fealt that we needed a recap here. I hope this helps you out.
 
If you already did try everything that was suggested here, i think you should really check the AGP card seating and try to feel if the graphic card is beeing pulled or pushed for/back/to the side. Try to seat in the graphic card and dont screw it on but instead push the metal plate where the srew should be and se if the card moves when you release it. If it does move even a bitt, there is your problem. I hope this helpes.
 
I am not sure if someone has mentioned this I checked the posts but not down to the letter. Do what the dudes above say using all the standoffs but also make sure you are using the I/O shield that came with the board or a compatible one and make sure all the mounting holes are lining up as close to dead center as you can get I have had cases in the past where the mobo would not line up perfectly straight and be slightly skewed here and there and sometimes caused shorting/grounding problems but who knows I had this case once i swear it was haunted every thing i ever put into that case ended up with strange issues down the road.
 
ok its only been a day but i just recieved a message from my friend.
his pc has lost video signal again!!
man im positive i did everything right this time,
im gonna let him borrow my 9800 pro for a week now and hopefully the problem will go away.
i still think its that rosewill radeon card.
 
Power, this is a power "supply" issue .

It is most probably related to the ground or line noise( inability to supply clean power ) , but is probably NOT a short circuit in the conventional sense .

From the sound of it the electrical wiring is under some "stress" . To not put to fine a point on it the situation sounds like a fine EM fubar .

Try taking a different monitor ( perferably a non high voltage appliance like an LCD ) and swapping it while the "no video" problem is happening

Aslo , and this might sound a bit weird , when you get teh NO video situaton, try switching the computer off ,
unseated the ram completely ( take it out ) , put it back in and turn the machine on ( you may have to do this a couple of times ) .

why you ask ?

Most probably the wiring in the home is creating the problem , kind of setting up either a ground loop ( due to a number of things including but not limited to one or more of the appliances being reversed with respect to hot /neutral ) or an EM 'feedback' signal carried on the rats nest of wires ( can be especially aggrevated by mulptile transformers on the line ) .

you could check the specific circuit breaker for the room . Having a lot of electronic equipment in the same room can put an old breaker ( especially one that has been brutaully popped or popped too many times ) to running at or over is functional limit .In fact a lot of normal house circuits cannot cleanly supply the amount of power demaned by multiple electronic devices ( i can run about three computers on my room line before I start to get problems ***( the breaker starts to physically hum and I get EXACTLY the same effect you are describing )***

By this I mean the the breaker is actually creating a very specific line noise oscillation , while "choking" the power to the electronics . When televisions are hooked up in a situ like this they tend to display 'interference' . High voltage power supplies (like in the monitor ) and computer PS's are VERY sensative to oscillatory ( harmonic) line distortions .

Removing the ram allows some of the capacitors to discharge and *can* sometimes tip the balance in getting the PS to kick over and properly power up ( you may know that switching PSU's , and hi voltage ( monitor ) supplies have snycronised outputs ( harmonically tuned ) that are very sensative to impedance or oscillattory imbalances and are designed to NOT operate (completely) under certain threshold conditions ) and snyc with the monitor triggers .

Best bet , replace the breaker and / or the cooked wall socket .

force the guy to use a regulated line supply ( as has been suggested already in this thread )for the computer AND the monitor.
and check for a properly grounded outlet

try running the computer with NOTHING else connected to that circuit ( unplug and turn off everything else , especially halogen or flourescent lamps )

Replace the burned (yes I know I am repeating) wall socket (a half dead socket *can* act like a capacitor / very simple transformer and induce specific oscillation in the entire line for everything on that breaker) check for proper ground when you do ) , lose ALL of the funk-adelic extension cord BS .

as a quick check you could try running an extension cord (not a normall house cord something with a heavy gauge and better insulation : one of those orange or yellow outdoor type will do ) to a different circuit in the house ( one that is definitely on a different breaker )

Other wise you might as well buy the guy a ring because you are going to be married to that machine /situation for the rest of eternity .

:)
 
changing the video card may , re-direct the problem ( for a while ) because the different power signature might interact with the line oscillations in a less critical way , but if the card swap does work don't be fooled by the apparant 'solution' .

that cooked , and dead wall socket is like finding the smoking gun at the scene of a crime.

clearly the electrical wiring and breaker have been stressed ( many times by your description ) and if the socket is "noisy" or the breaker has 'gone soft' ( which it almost certainly has ) then you will be simply stalling the real trouble for a couple of months .

Oh and as a note on mobo torqueing:

the mother board is not the place for the use of force .
EVER.
The screws should be snug , just a little tightening past free turning should be sufficient . If you are unsure or worried about the screws coming loos e ( say as in transport ) a dab of hot glue or some lok-tite can be used ( though I really don't recommend either one .
 
This guy really needs to get a UPS to clean up the power he is plugging his PC into

The environment that he is using the PC in is most likely the cause. Hopefully he hasn't damaged any of the hardware running it on dirty power.

Personally, I wouldn't lend out my Vid card to a guy whose house may be killing hardware...

What kind of monitor does he have? Just a wild thought, but is it a generic POS that could be sending some kind of feedback down the vid cable and freezing the GPU?
 
what is POS ?

I can't see how feed back would lock the gpu ( I may simply be lacking the technical skill to comprehend it ) . though if the gpu is locking up from monitor feed back I think the monitor might go into suspend state instead of still being in an 'unplugged from the computer" like state ( as the HV supply on the monitor would probably start charging , right ? ) .

But if the oscillasions in the incoming line voltage are getting through either the computers PS and susequently the the videocards power or ( more likely ) the monitors HV supply then one or the other of the powers supplies might not 'read' the correct output values and fail to power up when the two are connected . If that is the case my bet is that the computer is booting up and is on , but the monitor is failing to correctly identify the on/off state . Such a thing might be accompanied by a very hig pitched whine as the HV powersupply on the monitor over saturates .

I mean sometimes those Hv supplies are twitchy when they don't get loaded up properly at start up .

It's like that clicking you may have heard on on some ' faulty' monitors. normally that results from either a bad diode or capacitor on the output side which fails to allow the supply to get under load quickly enough and hence has teh 'safety' kicking the HV back down to charging and then cycling ad nauseum .

with dirty power the same thing is possible except there is no hardware fault, and the snyc gets thrown off so the monitor misses the trigger voltage threshold so you have a signal going to the monitor but the monitor failing to charge the HV supply .

completely grounding the crt ( dangerous for an amateur ) or the computer power supply might allow one to get a clean signal snyc'd before the dirty power has a chance to throw out sync or generally mess with the switching powersupplies ( monitor or computers ) tuned feedback/output cut off threshold.

another though occurs to me related to the amount of time that passes before the problem rears it's head and this is that eddie currents might be finding there way into the ground ( for example if the jacked up socket has a live hot but the return leg is the ground line and not the 'neutral' ( in respect to 110) as it should be . I suppose , though it is kind of reaching , that this condition might cause some of the charging capacitors in the PS to vary there working capacitance over time , this has the possiblity of throwing the any of the various switching supplies into a funkiod state .

Of course it could be as simple as some capacitors which have been weakened by exposure to crappy input power and are now a little leaky , so that after they are on a while they "bleed" just enough so that when turned off they do not start (properly ) the next time ( symptomatic intermitant direct short ) .

As you guys probably know most electrolytics are self healing the thin metal layers inside oxidize off of the capacitance 'fluid' ( normally ) , but due to the construction of the things the edges and "sharp" points on the metallic surface tend to get a thinnner oxidation coating than other areas on the capacitance surface .

when a capaticor gets hot or under load ( or old or low on fluid , this is why extremely hot and dry conditions are bad for electronics they cause the capacitors to dry up and run out of 'fluid' faster than normal ) those little edges (if they have a problem ) tend to boil off the oxide layer and create a 'leak' in the capacitor ( thus changing it's output) obviously this can take a while and be aggrivated by flucuations in the power and can cause the very sensative switching type supply to fail to power up .

When the capacitor sits unused for while it tends to re-oxidize 'naked' spots and thusly heal itself . Whatever teh problem initiation this capacitance thing is almost certainly invovled ( say you have dirty power fluctuating all over the place over working one or more of the ps capacitors on either side by flucuating it up and down constantly ( especially if the noise is harmonic ) and after X number of hours of exposure the capacitor(s) in question have 'leaked' enough to flake out . HOw much additional junk plugged into the dirty power line would probably directly shorten or lengthen the X variable ) .

anyway just a couple of things to consider :)
 
because it would seem that I have diarrea of the fingers , one last bit:

if you know someone that works for the cable company or of anybody that is willing to lend you an RF counter take it over to the dudes house and check his level of radio noise if it's more than 45db / mw @ about ten feet there is a good bet that you have a misbehaving PS somewhere . they do tend to make quite a bit of radio noise when they get twitchy ( right before my last PS gave up the ghost it started putting out over 1400db/mw @ 15feet , this was enough radio noise to interfere with my cable connection ! )
 
i dont really have any suggestions for this thread or anything, but i've had basically the same experience with my ex girlfriend and her computer that i set up for her.

She was away at school and was complaining that it would restart itself occasionally for no reason. so i said, when you come home, we'll check it out. whenever she came home, it would work flawlessly. While away at school in a dorm room, it would get very flaky.

The next time she went back to school, was her senior year, and a different dorm hall.
i gave her my pc, and i've still got her old one to this day. no issues with either.
 
ok a little update for you guys.
so i went over to his place, checked the shit out, and he still has it set the same way as before.
what a ffuggin moron, even though hes my friend.
I forgot to mention that i 7 volted the 120 mm antec case fan, cuold tihs also be a reason?
maybe his psu doesnt react well to having a 7 volted fan?

well we went to compusa and i bought a "mad dog psu" (knock on wood for maddog, never heard of em), and a ups for his ass.
i took back my 9800 pro too before he fucks it up!1 :rolleyes:

total came out a little over a dollar, he was not happy with this bill but im also not happy making so many visits to his place.
i told him not to plug in the mini fridge cuz his real fridge is like 4 feet away from it, talk about being a lazy ass mfer.
i also unplugged his air purifier and air humidifier.

i just might take the whole pc back and eat the loss.

as far as the rf counter goes, ill have to research that
that 50 dollar profit i made has totally not been worth it

;)
 
Let me ask you this, the times that you have taken the pc home after you fixed it, do you keep for at least a couple of days? Because if you kept it and it was working, of course without turning off the pc, then the problem is on his end and not the pc. If it does the same thing when you keep it then obviously is something in the pc.
 
maybe your friend is smoking crack and doesnt know how to use a computer :p hehe
it sounds like the board is grounding itself every so often. (had the same problem with a client's computer, worked fine for like the first few days then he said he got no vid signal every so often. try re mounting the motherboard, take it out make sure nothing is touching the mo-bo that is conductive other than the mo-bo mounting screws. also it could be a problem with the cpu. your computer wont post if theres a problem with the cpu or memory. it may also be a defective powersupply. if you have a voltage meter, test the rails for stability

hope that helps... though its 4am and im falling asleep at my computer again, so the grammer and such probably sounds absolutly sped. :D good luck to ya though
 
, hmm POS , I doubt point of sale applies to this discussion ( no offense guys :)

kind of thoughT he meant 'power on signal' ?


, honkee ,

the seven volt mod *could* be causing problems , as I said switching power supplies are very picky about output levels ( like an sync misamatch between the voltage rails *could* trigger thE psU to shut down because it "thinks" it is over volting ( or conversly the modded voltage drain is causing the gate threshold to remain below trigger strength )), BUT,

and yes i said

BUT

if you are telling me this guy has not one , but two refridgeration compressers , plus a bunch of other junk , plus some already shaky wall outlets/ existing power conditions on the same line then It is much more likely and I would bet a dollar against a doughnut that any little perturbations in the system are simply symptomatic expressions of the line power problem ( But the "weakest link" thing is also a good indicator of what equipment is taking a pounding due to dirty power , stuff won't last forever if it is getting the hell beat out of it ) .

, I mean fridge and air conditioning compressors are some of the noisiest appliances in terms of electrical line noise . I always tell people to get refridgeration equipment the hell off the same line as computer equipment .

and if he has two refridgerators plus , plus , plus junk , plus a computer on a single normal houshold room line circuit breaker , he is almost definitely running the break at or over it intended spec :

average line breaker single room : 15-20 amps
power drain breakdown

computer w350 psu : max draw 3.2A , probable average draw : 2.0A
monitor ( 17in) : 2A, P.A.D.1.5
minifridge ( guestimate based on comprssor not peltier/heatpump) : between 2 and 4A ,
real fridge between 2and 6.5 A ( when old can surge momentarily on start up to well in excess of 13A )
humidifiers can pull a bit of juice , I'll say about the same as a drip coffee maker , say : 1.3A
the air purifier , if it is just filter ( and not active like some of the ionizing or , god forbid , ozinating kind ) probably pulls as much as a decent table fan possible 4.5A
telvevision( depends on size ) : approx 1.5A
lighbublbs various electronics , ( guesstimate, could and probably is a hell of a lot more , 2.5A )

So conservatively (using all the low numbers ) before I add in the ( possible erroneous air purifier draw ) the low pull is about 12.7amps , If the air purifier is only 2.3A ( ~250watts)that puts the breaker running AT maximum output if it's a 15 amps circuit ( though he is porobably on a 20 ) ,

but ( yes again )

a more accurate estimate would probalby be that the guy is pulling close to or over twenty amperes ( sometimes a breaker can exceed it's rating when it has been catatrophically blown , afterwards it may reset but is no longer functional in it's original spec and will be noisy as all hell , and even if not, if you run a breaker with a fridge and computer equipment on the same line and are pushing the thing into the last 20% of the rating it's going to be noisy as hell in any event ) ,

even that might be conservative , considering a computer , printer , monitor , *can* pull well over 12A all by itself

In any event you WILL find out because that UPS can and probably will pull somewhere in the neighborhood of 2000W ( @110v = 18A ) when it powers up .

SO I would expect that if/when the ups powers up when one or more of the fridge/ fan/humidfiers combos is running you will pop the circuit . If it doesn't you probably have a bad or weak ( hence noisy ) breaker

RF counters are EXPENSIVE , and based on what you've said I would not bother with draggin one over there ,

no instead I would take out a life insurance policy on your friend which specifically pays off in the event of fire . :)
 
I would wager that since you are only using 4 of the mobo standoffs, that the mobo is hitting the mobo tray and shorting out every once in a while. PUT THE REST OF THE STANDOFFS ON!!!
 
I have a question for the stand off peoples .

I , after having run a mobo for months at a time hanging on only THREE stand offs wonder what force do you guys suspect is allowing / causing this thing to flex enough , inside the case , to be able to bend/flex enough to overcome that 1/8 to 1/4 inch clearance?
If all the cards are screwed in to the case it would take a really major whack to get the board to flex enough and even then the most likely thing(s) that would happen is(are) :

A) computer freezes

B) computer spontaneously re-boots

C) catastophic component failure resutling in the machine not working again

really

I once had an old celeron mobo lying flat ( just a bare mobo with the cards all sticking up ) and balanced between two decorative glass bricks. The thing was ONLY supported by the last centimeter or so on each of the narrow ends , and after hanging like that for ovre a year and a half it barely showed a measureable deviation from the ends to the center ( I never measured it but probably in the 1/32 of an inch range )

I agree that to keep someone from jacking the board up during transport or modification /upgrade all the standoffs should be used , but I just can't see the problem of a mobo shorting on a regular and well defined basis happening unless it is hanging inside the case supportd only by a couple of strings or something .

I guess the guy could seriously be kicking the shit out of his box every once in a while, but I would also imagine that that *might* become apparent to the tech at some point :)
 
your computer on glass bricks is totally isolated electrically so it would never be an issue. I have run mobos out of cases a lot and it isn't a problem. But it is a problem when your mobo may flex enough to contact the case. Basically, it's a stupid easy thing to try that is FREE (instead of making his buyer pay for a new vid card and PSU without actually knowing what the problem is-- this by the way embarrasses me that someone would do this) that might solve the problem. If it doesn't, then yeah, go out and spend tons of money on new hardware since it's pretty obvious that you have no troubleshooting skills.


whew. sorry about that, but it pisses me off when people don't follow suggestions.
 
i'd take back the mad dog PS and get a real PSU....

seems to be an obvious power issue....plus the fact that you dont really seem to know what you are doing either....not plugging in the 12v line... :rolleyes: not using all standoffs....come on, be serious when you build something for someone.
 
Cryptic said:
thats true, or maybe he means Peice of shit?!? :D
Click to expand...

and Cryptic get's the prize!

My recomendation at this point, buy the computer back from him and cut yoru losses. This is only the beginning of your headaches with your friend. Even if you did get it up and running it would only be a matter of time before he was crying to you about something else expecting you to fix it.

I know everyone in here hates to call it quits when it comes to solving mysterious computer problems, I'm no exception, but there comes a point, especially when you are doing it for profit, that you have to say enough and get out. Just look at this thread, a lot of good suggestions have been made to get this box running and it is still not working. What your friend needs is a Dell, let them troubleshoot and figure out if the tuna sammich sitting in his fridge is posessed by evil spirts bent on destroying his video signal.
 
blackrino9 said:
and Cryptic get's the prize!

My recomendation at this point ....What your friend needs is a Dell, let them troubleshoot and figure out if the tuna sammich sitting in his fridge is posessed by evil spirts bent on destroying his video signal.
Click to expand...


LoL , I couldn't agree more


----------
"your computer on glass bricks is totally isolated electrically so it would never be an issue. " ,
---------
Yes,
bigbadbiologist
but the issue I am pointing at is , what can cause the mobo to flex enough while in the case : the glass block example is not one of electrical isolation but rather one of (relative) mobo rigidity when it lacks support even over rather large periods of time .

The point being that something has to flex or shift the mobo to get it to bend enough ( gravity by itself just isn't enough ) to short . Given the nature of a mobo that "something " would almost have to be someone tampering or smacking the machine around ( I know I want to smack mine every now and again ) . In either case then honkees friend might have some splainin to do (ergo problem solved) but,


The "loose board" scenario just does not seem to fit the facts as honkee has relayed them to us , and if it does I am curious to see what kind of process could get the mobo to intermitantly touch the case ( weird wave multiplications from fan or cd-rom vibration ? it's possible ,how ever unlikey).

re-read the orginal post ...

"i have primed the computer and it is stable for well over 24 hours,
now everytime i give him the pc he brings it back to me with the same problem!!
he keeps losing video signal and i have to keep reinsatlling his mobo to the case, in order to get video again.
this has happened 4 times already and im starting to get annoyed.
any clue to why this could be happening?
and why resitting the mobo would cause him to gain video signal again?"

....and then read the whole thread:

firmly seating the mobo did not solve the problem

the computer works in one location , but not in another , all the facts semm to point to a taxed or dirty power line , plus I have seen the exact kind of thing captangrypants describes so many times it makes me wonder EXACTLY what are they teaching college students ?
( a bit off topic but a favorite of mine was a laptop's power cord wherein the transformer had been pulled into an abandoned bowl of cerel under the couch . the bowl was so old is was white green and black with fuzz it contained a thick fluid in the bottom that I presume was once milk . the kicker is that a pair of (soiled) ball hugger underwear was hangin about half in half out of the bowl and had been partially "solidified" into the mouldy mass that contained the transformer , a student ID , and a credit card )

but try and relax a little or ease off the caffeine this isn't a shooting match :)
 
i wouldnt say i dont know what im doing
but i posted this before, and a couple people responded that i do not need to plug in the 4 pin power if im running an amd setup.
only plug it in if im running a pentium?

well his pc is still working, so ill start the count at 1 day
the mad dog psu rails seem right on point though

i have also built over 60 pcs in my lifetime.
this is my first problem that ive ever encountered so i would say my success ratio is good
 
ok it has crashed again, although it crashed this time at my place.
so can we rule the power issue out of the equation?

first thing i noticed, switching the ram stick to another slot will give the comp the video signal!!
memtest'd it overnight and found zero errors for that simpletech stick.

i also noticed that he has some fucked up error about
dr watson post mortem debugger.
could this also be a cause of losing video signal?

i plan on reinstalling windows for him now.

thanks again for everyones help
 
i also noticed that he has some fucked up error about dr watson post mortem debugger
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: :confused:
Not a PC Hardware problem? VIRUS? Google it. HUNDREADS of threads!
Have you even checked for a VIRUS?
Ive got $500 crisp monopoly dollors says Its a Virus /Spyware problem! If Im wrong come and Pick it up the next time your in Ca. :D
New Virus
There's a new virus on the net, and I was lucky enough to tango with it for the past three days. I'm making this post to inform all of you to keep your eyes open for it and I strongly suggest you print this thread and keep it near your computer just to be on the safe side.

How do you contract this virus?

These are the three methods that I'm aware of. The top is what got me in this mess, but hey, that's what I get for using my computer in bad ways:
(1) Illegally downloading movies (woops!), music, programs, or product keys using Bearshare, Kazaa, or probably any other P2P network
(2) Looking at pornographic websites
(3) Opening e-mails from unknown sources (I hope that's a given, though)

What does it do?

This virus infects and duplicates itself in files that pretend they belong to your operating system. From what I can tell, this is only a problem for XP users with SP2 installed. The virus de-activates (or otherwise tampers with) an old program packaged with XP called the Doctor Watson Postmortem Debugger. When the virus strikes, it locks your desktop, freezes the taskbar (from start to the system clock... the whole thing!) and continuously attempts to send an error report to Microsoft about the postmortem debugger. Even *if* you can run your anti-virus, and your anti-spyware/ adware stuff, the virus duplicates itself again and stays infested!
 
i plan on reinstalling windows for him now.
Click to expand...
Run a hijack this log first and see how contaminated it is! Ive got another $500 says its blasted! If so then yes Reformat and reinstall :D

If fixing this doesnt solve it, What kind of montor does he have? Can it handle the Vid card you put in it?
 
reinstalled os with sp1.

the thing would freeze nomatter what u did, got annoying as hell.
i asked him buot the pronographic material and he confessed.
so im pretty sure he got this from porn hunting.

did a whole ntfs format, the long version.
im gonna stay away from sp2 for a little bit.
needless to say, his pc feels alot faster.
hopefully the signal stays on forever... or at least a year
 
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