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Comcast is counting local data towards data cap?

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Mut1ny

[H]ard|Gawd
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A buddy of mine and I have found that Comcast is counting him transferring data locally as going against his 300GB data cap.

Case in point: He has an external NAS hard drive which for those that don't know what a NAS is it means "Network Attached Storage". Basically it's an external hard drive that hooks up via ethernet or USB to your router so that all your computers on that router can retrieve or send data to it.

Anyways, he has it hooked up through his Comcast router/modem combo that they gave him and when he transfers information from his computer to his NAS Comcast is actually counting this towards his data cap.

We know this because we've done various tests that show extreme jumps in his data usage via Comcasts usage meter part of their websites when he transfers data from or to his NAS. Hell, even his Steam Link is counting towards his data cap!

He finally got a separate router and the problem has stopped but the fact remains that this is probably affecting a LOT of people who probably don't know this and doesn't seem to be, I don't know, legal?

Thoughts or opinions on this?

Is this even legal?
 
I would be very curious about exactly what model modem/router he was using. Really, I have my doubts that this is/was actually happening. What were you interpreting as "extreme jumps in his data usage"?
 
GotNoRice said:
I would be very curious about exactly what model modem/router he was using. Really, I have my doubts that this is/was actually happening. What are you interpreting as "extreme jumps in his data usage"?
Click to expand...

Ummmm...the 200GB that they say he used in the 2 hours it took him to transfer 200GB from his PC to his NAS?

The 15GB it says he used when he first got his Steam Link after using it for ~45 minutes.

Yes, them counting his local information usage towards his usage cap is a VERY real thing.
 
Mut1ny said:
Ummmm...the 200GB that they say he used in the 2 hours it took him to transfer 200GB from his PC to his NAS?

The 15GB it says he used when he first got his Steam Link after using it for ~45 minutes.

Yes, them counting his local information usage towards his usage cap is a VERY real thing.
Click to expand...

What model number modem/router? Since you said it stopped when he got his own router, then it would appear to be device specific (again, assuming it's actually happening at all).

Are you just talking about a possible bug in some irrelevant counter or do you have anything to indicate that this actually increased the usage data that Comcast goes by? Did your friend ever actually talk with anyone at Comcast about this? Did they ever make an attempt to charge some kind of overage fee? I would have copied a dozen+ terabytes over the LAN and if it was data they were actually counting, you would probably get some kind of call/notice at that point (but would be easy to argue your case).

This is a very basic problem for them to have gotten wrong... All that testing you guys did but you didn't take any screenshots, etc?
 
GotNoRice said:
What model number modem/router? Since you said it stopped when he got his own router, then it would appear to be device specific (again, assuming it's actually happening at all).

Are you just talking about a possible bug in some irrelevant counter or do you have anything to indicate that this actually increased the usage data that Comcast goes by? Did your friend ever actually talk with anyone at Comcast about this? Did they ever make an attempt to charge some kind of overage fee? I would have copied a dozen+ terabytes over the LAN and if it was data they were actually counting, you would probably get some kind of call/notice at that point (but would be easy to argue your case).

This is a very basic problem for them to have gotten wrong... All that testing you guys did but you didn't take any screenshots, etc?
Click to expand...

Do you work for Comcast? We're not dumb on this stuff...he works as a network specialist and I've been doing IT for well over a decade. We know our shit, ya dig?

And yes, Comcast has seen this and has called and we have explained the situation, multiple times, each time getting no where. I'm not here to prove anything, it's been proven by professionals. I'm asking what can we do about it.
 
Write The Consumerist about it. Not sure what other course you have an option to take in order to get Comcast to fix their crap.
 
I'm with GotNoRice on this one. Not trying to insult anyone's skillsets, but posts like this without any screenshots, logs, evidence or anything else to back it up, seems a bit reckless for a network engineer and someone with a decade in IT. Would you go to a client and tell them this story without having some sort of proof?
 
Comcast does bandwidth metering of your IP from between the CMTS and the upstream router the CMTS connects to. At least that is what we've been told. They certainly do not do it on any local level, though - as you can use any compatible modem and modems don't do traffic accounting.

I find this situation highly unlikely and your friend is wrong...

That said, is there any chance he's using the public IP to connect to this NAS even though it's "local"?
 
Mut1ny said:
Do you work for Comcast? We're not dumb on this stuff...he works as a network specialist and I've been doing IT for well over a decade. We know our shit, ya dig?
Click to expand...

It was not my intent to cast doubt on your qualifications, I'm simply looking for clarification and more detail on what amounts to some pretty serious accusations. You can get defensive if you want, but bottom line is that on the internet you have to be pretty gullible to take these kinds of stories at face value without asking questions. Why did you ignore my two requests for the model number of the modem/router? Forgot? Again, if getting a separate router solved the issue, then that would strongly imply that this problem (if it's real) is device specific. Obviously, knowing the name of the device would help. You seem to have initially made this thread as some kind of warning... well give us the info we need to make that warning meaningful by telling us which devices this potentially applies to.

I personally know over a dozen people with residential Comcast internet connections, almost all of which are using a combo modem/router. If you are able to give us more information, I would love to investigate further among the residential Comcast users that I know, and potentially perform my own testing.
 
I've been in IT for many years and I find this unlikely, but certainly possible.

It's common in any field for professionals to include evidence of their findings when they write up their
story for the consumption of other professionals in the field. ie clinical lab tests for medical findings, etc.

This may be possible if Comcast is doing some kind of usage monitoring on the boxes they provide.

Kind of disturbing if this is true and Comcast thinks they have a right to monitor customer's LAN traffic
just because they own the modem/router.
 
Mut1ny said:
Do you work for Comcast? We're not dumb on this stuff...he works as a network specialist and I've been doing IT for well over a decade. We know our shit, ya dig?
Click to expand...


Oh damn. I guess it's impossible for him to be wrong or ever make a mistake. :rolleyes:
 
There has got to be more to this story. If I were to transfer 3 TB between computers I can guarantee my usage would not go to 3TB. Why would they ever meter anything happening locally, it doesn't affect their system.
 
Sp33dFr33k said:
There has got to be more to this story. If I were to transfer 3 TB between computers I can guarantee my usage would not go to 3TB. Why would they ever meter anything happening locally, it doesn't affect their system.
Click to expand...

Why?

Because it is Comcast... And they have consistently shown themselves to be anti consumer idiots out to screw their captive users
 
Mut1ny said:
Do you work for Comcast? We're not dumb on this stuff...he works as a network specialist and I've been doing IT for well over a decade. We know our shit, ya dig?
Click to expand...

And this is the kind of pointless brag we normally see just before someone figures out that they're ridiculously, spectacularly wrong...
 
If they were reading the counters off the wrong interface it could happen. This could be something as simple as a bad configuration on the part of Comcast.
 
Chas said:
And this is the kind of pointless brag we normally see just before someone figures out that they're ridiculously, spectacularly wrong...
Click to expand...

Bingo. Until hard evidence is presented it is all just dick-measuring speculation.
 
I can tell you I use their modem/router in bridge mode connected and this doesn't happen to me. I have the phone/data modem they supply.
 
Deadjasper said:
I actually got a chuckle out of this thread. Thanks guys. :)
Click to expand...


Here! Have some more!

chuckles.jpg
 
Given the high amount of QC that ISPs expend on their routers, the observations of the OP is quite possible. Some firmware intern at modem central was given the task of making a traffic counter that summed up all traffic through the unit. And he did.

Which is why all ISP devices should be in bridge mode and your private network is behind a device that only you have control off. What happens inside your network stays there.
 
While you have a point, those Comcast modem/router combos also act as a public Wifi hotspot for other Comcast customers (SSID: xfinitywifi) so they have to be able to differentiate local private data packets and public packets so the public stuff don't get metered.

With that said, you don't know for sure what is happening in those units so its best to never use them at all in the first place.
 
The only way this is possible is if they're accessing the NAS through the Public IP. IE: Going around your elbow to get to your anus.

Although I suspect this is just poppycock at best.
 
Glad the original claim here was backed up with facts, screenshots, equipment information, and logs... Oh wait.

Ignorant people bitching about cable companies make it harder for non idiots with legitimate complaints.
 
eh, this all may have to do with windows file copy stupidity. case in point, I have found I can download shit faster than direct copy the same file from one computer to another. and another point is if they are assigning different IPs to the different devices on the network, then that information is actually probably going back and forth through cable. Stupid yes
 
Ocellaris said:
Glad the original claim here was backed up with facts, screenshots, equipment information, and logs... Oh wait.

Ignorant people bitching about cable companies make it harder for non idiots with legitimate complaints.
Click to expand...

Right, because I'm ignorant for not providing all the information you want. Seems legit.

Look people, say what you want and think what you want but he and I both know what was going on and we could see it going on in real time.

I was asking more the legality of it then trying to prove it to people.
 
Unless there is some glitch with the router I don't see how that would happen. Though I did found out ASUS's QOS is really screwed up so I could see it happening.
 
Mut1ny said:
Right, because I'm ignorant for not providing all the information you want. Seems legit.

Look people, say what you want and think what you want but he and I both know what was going on and we could see it going on in real time.

I was asking more the legality of it then trying to prove it to people.
Click to expand...

My guess is along the same lines as what has been stated about Comcast possibly looking at the wrong counters in their box.

>>I was asking more the legality of it then trying to prove it to people.

It's all just fartin' in the wind to discuss the legality of something you are not willing to document.
What's the point of that? :rolleyes:


In related news.......

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1885808
 
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It sounds like he might be using a switch instead of a router. Both devices are probably getting an external IP and not internal, so it's going through the internet. I would have him unplug everything immediately until this can be fixed as this is a huge security risk.

If he was using a proper NAT router Comcast should not even have any way of knowing what is happening on the internal side of the network.
 
Stop speculating and posting replies. The OP trolled all of you.
 
Anyone who spells out NAS seems inexperienced because everyone knows what they are because we all have a pair. At least show IP addresses and arp tables.
 
At the end of the day, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Zero information of actual substance was presented, claim denied.
 
klank said:
Stop speculating and posting replies. The OP trolled all of you.
Click to expand...

No one got trolled. What a stupid thing to say. Just because I won't post shit (which it's too late anyways since all their equipment was returned this weekend) doesn't mean anything. Again, I'm not looking to prove anything...my friend and I saw all the proof we needed. I was asking if this could fall into some legal thing.

Aluminum said:
At the end of the day, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Zero information of actual substance was presented, claim denied.
Click to expand...

Read me response above. My question isn't one that requires evidence as I'm not trying to prove what I say to all of you, I'm simply asking if anyone knows if what happened would be legal or violates some Net Neutrality type thing.

Jesus Christ...I feel like I'm a broken record here. How many times do I have to say this? Oh, let me guess, "WE NEED PROOF!!! Derp."
 
Mut1ny said:
Read me response above. My question isn't one that requires evidence as I'm not trying to prove what I say to all of you, I'm simply asking if anyone knows if what happened would be legal or violates some Net Neutrality type thing.

Jesus Christ...I feel like I'm a broken record here. How many times do I have to say this? Oh, let me guess, "WE NEED PROOF!!! Derp."
Click to expand...

You have hardly given us any useful info to be able to answer your questions, and any time anyone asks for clarification or more info you go into a tard rage rant about not wanting to actually back up what your are saying. Even without you "proving" anything, what kind of answer were you really expecting based on the limited info that you have provided?

I already asked this in a previous question that you ignored, but I will ask again. What exactly is the nature of your question/complaint? If it is just that the numbers on some counter went up, that really doesn't mean anything. Did they ever give out a warning that too much data was being used? Did they ever attempt to charge some kind of overage fee? Until something of that nature happens, nothing really wrong is actually happening. The counter that you are viewing is provided more for your convenience than anything, and may not even represent the actual usage data that they monitor.
 
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GotNoRice said:
I already asked this in a previous question that you ignored, but I will ask again. What exactly is the nature of your question/complaint? If it is just that the numbers on some counter went up, that really doesn't mean anything. Did they ever give out a warning that too much data was being used? Did they ever attempt to charge some kind of overage fee?
Click to expand...

I've already answered half that question.

Comcast has seen this and has called and we have explained the situation, multiple times, each time getting no where.
Click to expand...

As to charging us for it yes they have, though I didn't see you ask that before so my bad.
 
Mut1ny said:
I've already answered half that question.



As to charging us for it yes they have, though I didn't see you ask that before so my bad.
Click to expand...

got a bill proving you were over charged for internal data? Because if I got charged for that I would be calling EFF and filing suit....but thats just me
 
Wasn't there a story recently about some guy that was getting billed for going over his data cap and he proved that Comcast screwed up? Comcast had incorrectly recorded the MAC address of his cable modem and he was seeing the data usage from some other customer of theirs. He was able to prove it by completely disconnecting and powering off his modem.

Beyond that, the only way that internal network traffic would be counted against you is if DHCP for the local LAN on the router was misconfigured and the default gateway was set to one of Comcast's routers (i.e. 73.253.4.1). You'd have to really go out of your way to screw that up though.
 
Mut1ny said:
Read me response above. My question isn't one that requires evidence as I'm not trying to prove what I say to all of you, I'm simply asking if anyone knows if what happened would be legal or violates some Net Neutrality type thing.
Click to expand...

Well in that case then, this isn't the legal advice forum, it's networking and security. If you want an opinion on a legal matter, feel free to post in The General Mayhem forum.
 
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