Color correction and wide gamut questions.

[truepurple]

Does using a videocards color correction work with a monitors color correction for improved color correction performance? Like if I use a Del U2410 in sRGB, will its colors get even more accurate if I set the video card to color correction too?

How much more significant is the 6xxx line in color correction verses say a 5870? How much more accurate will the colors be on a wide gamut screen with these newer cards, even with a sRBG mode?

The only programs that actually use wide gamut (intentionally) are professional level programs?

 

[Whoisthisreally]

See http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html for basics on monitor calibration and profiling. What you are referring to the LUT in the graphics card output.

As for wide gamut, yes, it is ideal for professional photo and video editing in colour managed programs. The sRGB mode in the U2410 looks quite accurate, at least much more accurate than a monitor without factory adjustment like the U2311.

 

[truepurple]

Does a video card with its own color correction add to the accuracy of the sRGB mode?

 

[Whoisthisreally]

Does a video card with its own color correction add to the accuracy of the sRGB mode?

What colour correction are you referring to? saturation and gamma dial adjustments such as in catalyst control centre? one should avoid using those as they cause massive banding without improving accuracy. Proper colour correction using the video card can only be produced with a colorimeter device. And even then, the LUT correction should be as minor as possible, because the video card LUT introduces shade loss and banding.

 

[truepurple]

What is color correction in video cards for if it only causes banding?

Well, I found reference in the Dell U2410 thread that sRGB mode is not perfect and causes incorrect colors still. And I find it hard to believe I could reach accuracy by just adjusting color tint and brightness. Since if one screen looks too red because of wide gamut, and I thus turn down red or reduce color strength, other screens might lack the red or color strength they would need, I would think.

 

[Whoisthisreally]

What is color correction in video cards for if it only causes banding?

Well, I found reference in the Dell U2410 thread that sRGB mode is not perfect and causes incorrect colors still. And I find it hard to believe I could reach accuracy by just adjusting color tint and brightness. Since if one screen looks too red because of wide gamut, and I thus turn down red or reduce color strength, other screens might lack the red or color strength they would need, I would think.

On the topic of the U2410 I would recommend you rely only on Prad.de colorimetric measurements as TFTCentral and FlatpanelsHD results may be faulty because they may be using uncorrected colorimeters.

You can see in http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2010/review-dell-u2410-part10.html that the sRGB mode is quite good for a factory setting.

Again for video card colour controls, their only use is for worst case scenarios where the monitor doesn't have a menu to change R,G,B Gain (the U2410 does to an extent) and contrast.

 

[truepurple]

I can't really make out much of those graphs, numbers and data in the PRAD, the jargon etc loses me.

But somewhere in the U2410 (not sure where, the thread is so massive, and I can't recall the page number) theres some striking pictures of a desktop picture of sky ocean and rock covered by a photoshop or whatever picture of the same picture, except the photoshop is color controlled, the backdrop being highly favored to red, where the color controlled window looks much more realistic, and this is said to have been taken in sRGB mode.

I was hoping to get a good video card to compensate for any issues like this, but your saying I can't really? And there is no real difference between the 5xxx and the 6xxx series in their ability to deal with color correction? Despite my having read in reviews about how the 6xxx series have introduced linear color correction features? Its a tech fluff that doesn't really work?

 

[Bummrus[H]a]

According to what I've read at anand, the 6x00 series are supposed to be much better at color correction, especially for wide gamut. But I haven't found much info on how it works, and how you use it.

Finally, coupled with support for new codecs and new display outputs in AMD’s display controller is a refinement of AMD’s existing color correction capabilities in their display controller. Cypress and the rest of the 5000 series could do color correction directly on their display controllers, but they could only do so after gamma correction was applied, meaning they had to work in the non-linear gamma color space. Technically speaking this worked, but color accuracy suffered as a result. With the 6800 series’ new display controller, AMD can now perform color calibration in linear space by converting the image from gamma to linear color space for the color correction, before converting it back to gamma color space for display purposes.

As color correction is being used to correct for wide-gamut monitors the importance of this change won’t be seen right away for most users, but as wide-gamut monitors become more widespread color correction becomes increasingly important since wide-gamut monitors will misinterpret the normal sRGB colorspace that most rendering is done in.

 

[monitorrat]

Does a video card with its own color correction add to the accuracy of the sRGB mode?

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. There is no way a video card could magically know what a monitor is actually displaying and no way for it to automatically correct for it.

If you mean the color adjusters in the control panels, those are manual since automatic would be impossible and best to not be touched anyway.

(That said there has been some talk that when it comes to video output in certain video modes that some of the makers may toy around a little and some were saying that nvidia and amd made say blu-rays discs look a little different. Something that really should not at all be happening. They didn't measure to see which was putting out the correct colors, if either.)

 

[monitorrat]

What is color correction in video cards for if it only causes banding?

Well, I found reference in the Dell U2410 thread that sRGB mode is not perfect and causes incorrect colors still. And I find it hard to believe I could reach accuracy by just adjusting color tint and brightness. Since if one screen looks too red because of wide gamut, and I thus turn down red or reduce color strength, other screens might lack the red or color strength they would need, I would think.

It's gonna be hard to eye-ball in the correct colors.

For color-managed stuff like photowork you want to get a good probe and good calibration/profiling software. That also works to some extent for non-managed stuff that doesn't dump the LUT and it can figure out how to adjust to the LUT to get the color temp you want and the proper tonal response curve.

For non-managed stuff that dumps the LUT or doesn't use the LUT at all (games/blu-ray software, although some say you can lock the LUT with special software) you can't use profiling or LUT loading, you can try to use something like ColorimetreHCFR and use it with a probe and they try to adjust monitor controls best you can (but they are usually best left at default when LUT calib and profiling for color-managed photo work though). I suppose you might be able to fiddle with the video card panel stuff too.

Some monitors and tvs have poor CMS and using it makes nasty warped gamuts and it's better to not use it too much. Often using the internal settings on an hdtv with good controls works better for gamma and color temp and leaves less for the LUT to correct (and it stil work even when the LUT gets dumped).'

 

[monitorrat]

I can't really make out much of those graphs, numbers and data in the PRAD, the jargon etc loses me.

But somewhere in the U2410 (not sure where, the thread is so massive, and I can't recall the page number) theres some striking pictures of a desktop picture of sky ocean and rock covered by a photoshop or whatever picture of the same picture, except the photoshop is color controlled, the backdrop being highly favored to red, where the color controlled window looks much more realistic, and this is said to have been taken in sRGB mode.

I was hoping to get a good video card to compensate for any issues like this, but your saying I can't really? And there is no real difference between the 5xxx and the 6xxx series in their ability to deal with color correction? Despite my having read in reviews about how the 6xxx series have introduced linear color correction features? Its a tech fluff that doesn't really work?

I think what you are taking is simply the difference between calibrating and profiling your monitor with some probe and softwre and then using a color-managed app that makes use of your created profile vs. not doing any of that.

 

[omniscence]

Did anyone actually test the new color correction features of the 6800 or 6900 series? Do they still lose their calibration in games?

 

[Bergkamp]

I have a radeon 6850 and u2410 using DP.

Truepurple, are you refering to this?:

It works better than my old hd4870 i think ( too lazy to swap cards and compare ), work in games too.

But monitor sRGB + this edid option makes colors too muted, so i use adobeRGB + edid option, in my eyes looks better than default monitor sRGB.

 

[truepurple]

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. There is no way a video card could magically know what a monitor is actually displaying and no way for it to automatically correct for it.

From my understanding, the issue of wide gamut is that color instructions aren't specific enough, like a program might tell the monitor to display its brightest green, which can be alot brighter if its a wide gamut screen.

I would assume that a video card would convert the instructions "brightest green" to a specific brightness of green that is the brightest for the usual color spread. I mean its a most logical and simple approach to color correction.(though maybe color instructions are very complicated, adding complexity to what would otherwise be simple) So its strange for you to say that such would be "magical". There is no need for the video card to know what the monitor sees or for the user or video card to mess with color calibrations in control panel, which could create inaccurate colors anyway.

Also, while not really relevant to the discussion, I am told that monitors do send as well as receive information, I was told this when I inquired about the differences between a monitor and a TV on another forum.

@Bergkamp
Are you quoting someone else there? If so, from where? Interesting anyway, I would like to learn more. Does anyone know of a side by side review or something else that shows/tells more?