COD4 Dev: They Wonder Why People Don't Make PC Games Anymore.

[Master Blaster]

And is it so wrong to protest...*snip*

Oh no, you have the wrong idea about what I was saying. I was basically honing in on his statement on AAA titles is all he sees, though the list is fairly lengthy. I should've said that in my post. I totally agree with protesting to stop certain actions, and I also agree with the view of the dev mentioned in the OP.

The more crap we gamers are fed, and actually eat, the worse off we'll be.

PC Gamer's Rebellion unite!!

 

[ObscureTerror]

More of this sick insanity... again... here's my final response to this subject, which I just cant continue trying to get across to the ignorant tree-swingers anymore.

1) Any mentality that's along the lines of, "I'm 'entitled' to try something before I buy, even through illegal means." is not only immature and devolved, but is indicative of the bullshit attitude of too many assholes on this planet.

You're not "entitled" to shit, no matter what sick, twisted and painfully ignorant "reasonings" you attempt to use.

You bought a game and don't like it? Tough shit, get a fucking helmet.

What "sucks", is a matter of opinion, and if you're not happy with your purchase, tough fucking shit... welcome to the real world, fuckers.

Just one of the vast fucking problems with people today, is that people want everything in life immediately, and they want some fucking "guarantee" that it's going to be "perfect" for them. Guess what, fuckers... you're not that important.

People who attempt to justify piracy (i.e. low-life, scumbag theft) are far too fucking self-inflated, believing they're "entitled" to try or have something for free, just so they don't make a purchase they end up not being happy with.

Grow the fuck up and deflate your god damn ego before someone else does it for you, which sure as you're born, is going to happen one day, with you walking around with such a truly delusional and stuck-up attitude.

2) They're not "blaming piracy for everything" or "using that as an excuse to move to consoles".

That's just one of a million truly mindless statements you degenerate low-lifes invent out of your truly delusional minds, which borders on fucking paranoia, to justify theft.

Do you really fucking think that, if a developer wanted wanted to make a switch to console strictly for the money, that they would purposefully go out of their way to blame piracy and take the time to give interviews and write articles about it? What, are you fucking retarded?

When a company decides to make a move like that, no one goes out of their way to "create" such in-depth "excuses". They simply make the changes that are best for them, and most of the time, don't even offer a reason, because it's no one's obligation to explain shit to you.

Your delusions of grandeur and overblown sense of self-importance, out of which comes the sick mentality that you're "owed" anything by anyone, is astoundingly fucking sick. For you to think that anyone gives a tossed fuck about you to the point that they would issue a "false" statement about piracy on the PC being the reason for their move to consoles, but at the same time, stating that's a "lie" on their part, a "cover" for the real reason, is the textbook form of delusion that, frighteningly enough, far too many talking fucking monkeys on this planet walk around living in.

Whether your severely limited and disturbed intellect might not be able to comprehend it, the bottom-line truth is that pircay DOES have a severe effect on the industry, and is a low-life action to take, simply because you think your "importance" as just another faceless contribution to society's sickness, "entitles" you to "pick-and-choose" for what you will pay and what you will not. Wrong, assholes: you'll fucking pay, like everyone else... in one way, or another.

Oh, and for the fucking "genius" who said, "Why don't they try coding for everyone hardware configuration"... that's so astounding ignorant and outright stupid, it's almost unfathomable.

3) Most of those who make up "society", like the fools here who attempt to "justify" piracy and feel "entitled" to anything, are weak-minded, weak-willed, selfish, deluded, too soft and completely lacking in any redeeming values what-so-ever.

Your incessant fucking whining, paranoid accussations, and sick justifications about why developers give "you" "shitty ports" and why you think you're "entitled" to fucking anything is enough to enrage anyone who's above the level of just having crawled out of the fucking jungle.

I'm an ADVID PC gamer and have been building expensive gaming rigs for the last decade, and I also work hard for my money and put a lot of that into building gaming rigs (though that's about to stop) and, despite all of this, while I might be disapponted with any given particular release, I don't "blame the devs" and move to pirating games out of feeling "entitled" to "try before I buy in case I don't like it".

You make a purchase, you take a chance... that's fucking life, deal with it.

If you're such a self-inflated whiny little shit who cant handle disappointment and who has such a lack of any redeeming qualities that you would use as an excuse to steal, then you're undeserving of anything, period.

4) It's not that they need better "protection methods", it's that the maggots who make up most of the human race need to obtain some level and semblance of honor, respect and fucking reality.

If people weren't so self-inflated (and falsely, at that), selfish and weak, there would be no theft, no piracy. In that case, developers wouldn't need to impliment "shitty protection methods", record labels wouldn't have to take methods that hurt the music industry due to piracy, and I wouldn't necessarily feel the need to keep a .45 cal SiG sitting next to me in my family's house at all times, refuse to leave the house unarmed and have a safe full of fucking guns.

If human beings would at least have more of an understanding of respect and REALITY, such as my ancestors WAY back in history, who understood honor, loyalty and respect, there wouldn't be the fucking need for people and businesses (which are made-up of people) to feel the need to protect themselves.

There is NEVER a viable justification for stealing, never mind the totally delusional and low-life excuses I see continually made, which is also just an enraging distraction in places such as these forums and this site, which actually have a lot to offer from those who can actually be, think and live, at the very least, like god damn adults.

What... you think PC developers "just decided" out of the fucking blue to start implimenting protection methods for "no reason"? As a god damn conspiracy, just to be able to use as an excuse several years down the line, that piracy is the reason for their switch to consoles and why they're not putting as much effort into PC games anymore? Are you that fucked in the head? Because that's what your "reasoning" is saying: that it's all a god damn conspiracy, it's all lies, and their methods of implimenting protection methods, which really aren't necessary according to you, are just their "excuses" to move to a bigger money-making platform. Yet, at the same time, you make points that, the more protection methods they use, that gives you even more of a reason to steal shit. What the fuck!? You cant even keep your paranoia straight, on one track or even keep from spewing forth your sick paranoid and immature bullshit in a manner that contradicts everything you say from one breathe to the next.

I'm tired of fucking "screaming" in an attempt to try to get people to see reality and obtain some semblance of redeeming qualities in this life, so I wont ever respond to another conversation about this shit again, but perhaps there is someone out there who will stop just hearing/seeing what they WANT to hear/see, and wake the fuck up and be put in their place by what I've stated here, and those others who have fought by my side over these sociological issues time and time again, though fewer and fewer they become.

The sick fucking mentalities of most people is exactly why the world is in the state it's in today. It's the same "rationale" that weak-willed faggot assholes walk into schools with semi-automatic weapons and kill countless innocent people. It's the same type of thinking that are used to "justify" sending thousands of troops into unneeded wars, only for them to return home in fucking body bags. It's the same type of sick thinking, lack of redeeming qualities or living in reality, and egomaniacal bullshit that rapists, murderers, drug dealers and theives use to justify their actions.

No, I'm not comparing pirates to rapists and murders, which I'm sure some "cut-and paste idiot" is going to have a field day with, as with other things I've said here... but of course. But the same type of delusional and ignorant thinking and behavior, just on different levels and to different degrees, is all-the-same in terms of it's sickness, and is why this world is now such a disgusting fucking shit-hole and those of us who live in the real reality must continually look over our shouders and feel sickened by the reasons why.

If the piracy level ever drops and people start having more fucking respect, maybe then developers will be more inclined to put more focus into developing quality PC games again, feel less of a need to impliment bullshit protection methods that otherwise adversely effect the honest gamer and then all those who would engage in such sick self-justification will shut the fuck up and stop polluting this planet further with their bullshit.

 

[refraxion]

That's off of one torrent site, I think there were some estimates that 750,000 copies of COD4 were downloaded off of piratebay alone. It's funny that the four people above you are trying to justify their theft. 'The games aren't worth buying, WAAAAH!' Maybe the games aren't worth buying but that isn't an excuse for having a right to play it for free.

Nevermind the fact that we are getting cheap console ports and horrible games because of piracy. It's a cycle. Piracy kills sales, less money gets invested, more people pirate, even less money gets invested...and it will continue until we are stuck with half-assed titles and the occasional decent MP from die-hard PC companies. Oh wait, I think I just described 2008.

Yes IRefraxion/ Simpson/ Canadian/ Silus, I'm talking to you. YOU are part of the problem.

Since when did I say I did not own it? In fact I do own it, BOTH on the 360 AND the PC (YES A LEGIT COPY). I'm just pissed that crappy console ports go towards the PC hence low PC sales.

 

[Master Blaster]

*

That was worth a round of applause. I feel the same way. I, like you, have posted about the whole "entitlement" issue in another one of "these" threads, but nobody ever can ever justify their greedy behavior.

 

[pothb]

I'm wondering, if it was released on PC first, what would happen. I mean, I don't doubt that some of those "pirateers" or however you call them, have the game on the console. Not all, but some. So if it was released on PC, I think it'd be the opposite. Though not quite as much since its easier, as far as I know, to pirate a game on pc.

 

[Silus]

2) They're not "blaming piracy for everything" or "using that as an excuse to move to consoles".

That's just one of a million truly mindless statements you degenerate low-lifes invent out of your truly delusional minds, which borders on fucking paranoia, to justify theft.

I really only wanted to comment on this one, because you're placing everyone in the same bag.
I'm in the group that believes these developers are using piracy as an excuse for everything, except their crappy quality games, but I buy all my games, so am I trying to justify theft ?

Do you understand that premise or are you as narrow minded as the OP, that thinks that anyone not buying a game, because they didn't like it, automatically means they also pirated it ?

Just to give you context:

That's off of one torrent site, I think there were some estimates that 750,000 copies of COD4 were downloaded off of piratebay alone. It's funny that the four people above you are trying to justify their theft. 'The games aren't worth buying, WAAAAH!' Maybe the games aren't worth buying but that isn't an excuse for having a right to play it for free.

Nevermind the fact that we are getting cheap console ports and horrible games because of piracy. It's a cycle. Piracy kills sales, less money gets invested, more people pirate, even less money gets invested...and it will continue until we are stuck with half-assed titles and the occasional decent MP from die-hard PC companies. Oh wait, I think I just described 2008.

Yes IRefraxion/ Simpson/ Canadian/ Silus, I'm talking to you. YOU are part of the problem.

And here:

In order words: the game sucks...it's not worth my money but I want to play it...so I'll steal it instead.

Great mentality you got there.

I was basically called a pirate, because I didn't buy games I considered inferior in terms of quality. That obviously means I pirated it...

Hope at least you understand the difference, since the OP surely didn't...

 

[Chombo]

Why do we keep having this same thread pop up over and over.

X developer is blaming lower than expected sales on piracy, we then go back and forth between the expected sales numbers being inflated and how low pirates are.

 

[phide]

There is NEVER a viable justification for stealing...

While I don't disagree with you on any particular point (I'd say I'm in full agreeance with everything you've stated), piracy cannot be defined as 'theft' unless one were to make an unreasonable interpretation of the well-established definition of the word.

Some may use that linguistic loophole as an excuse to engage in piracy, though that's not what I'm trying to do here.

 

[Kangg]

Pirating games is stealing pure and simple. Those idiots that do it make it tougher on the game development houses and all of us legit users. I have a good friend that almost never puchases games for the PC, he almost always pirates them....

He'll say hey, did you check out such and such game ? I reply yeah it's awsome, got it on sale for x amount, he'll pause and call me a loser because I bought the game so the developers, programmers and everyone else associated with the game can get paid for their work, I tell him he's stealing, his reply, It's online so it's free.... No wonder the world is in the shape it is these days since stealing is considered an acceptable practice by many .......

 

[vengence]

Yep... the company that is closing it's doors is using a scare tactic... :rollseyes:

 

[pothb]

Pirating games is stealing pure and simple. Those idiots that do it make it tougher on the game development houses and all of us legit users. I have a good friend that almost never puchases games for the PC, he almost always pirates them....

He'll say hey, did you check out such and such game ? I reply yeah it's awsome, got it on sale for x amount, he'll pause and call me a loser because I bought the game so the developers, programmers and everyone else associated with the game can get paid for their work, I tell him he's stealing, his reply, It's online so it's free.... No wonder the world is in the shape it is these days since stealing is considered an acceptable practice by many .......

Your friend sucks.

 

[Simpson5774]

More of this sick insanity... again... here's my final response to this subject, which I just cant continue trying to get across to the ignorant tree-swingers anymore.

Your ignorance of the matter transcends right and wrong. You basically said people who pay for the games deserve to screwed over if it wasn't what they expected, and people who break the law IN ANY WAY are scum of the earth and deserve to goto hell. You have a VERY narrow mind of the world.

We don't serve video game developers, they serve us, they serve us by producing a game, then we pay them for that work. If that work sucks, or in some way is sub standard, then we as the consumer have the right to complain and oppose such product. You just said we don't have the right to complain, we don't have the right to get what we want, we only have the right to get what we pay for, and if that product in some way is sub standard, tough shit, they just scammed you out of money and their is nothing you can do about it, thats what you said.

People like you who act all holier than thou are the reason why the world is falling apart. They have no self value of what is right and wrong, they only look at what the law says, or what the bible says about right and wrong, so when the law itself is wrong, they are too much of a coward to do anything to change it, they are subservants to the laws, they believe that the laws are right, and are unquestionable, so they do nothing about it when they are being wronged by such law.

People like you don't have the balls to speak out about the injustices that happen in this country every day, the freedoms which are being taken away every day, the rights which we no longer have, people like you say nothing when your being wronged, only when others are wrong by the system which you believe is right.

People like you are people I want to have nothing to do with, people who believe that they are right because they follow every little law, and do what they are told, people like you are cowards in the face of the law, wrong or right, and will do nothing to change it when they are wrong. I want nothing to do with people like you.

And don't say I am defending piracy with this statement because I never even mentioned it.

If someone downloads a CD (or w/e), BY LAW they are in the wrong. But the law states they owe the copywrite holder $750,000 per infraction, so by stealing a 10 dollar CD you are made liable for $750,000 per offense. No amount of logic in this world can make that reasonable or right, people like you who believe the LAW is the end all do nothing to change that. Stealing a CD is a crime, but the punishment for the crime is worse than the crime itself and does more damage than the crime could ever do. They (RIAA) want to change that law in two ways, first they want to make it $1.5 million in maximum liability, and they want to make it per track, so people downloading "greatest hits" albums can be fined even more. The people like you who defend a law such as that are worse than the people who enacted it in the first place.

 

[Chombo]

*

I am sure that would have been a much more eloquent argument without the F-bombs every 10 words.

 

[BladeVenom]

Who just turned 12 and learned to use the F word?

 

[damonposey]

I think obscureterror needs a hug

 

[Nytegard]

I've already made my rant in the other thread, but justifying a bad game for piracy is retarded. You have demos. And someone responded how the demos only include the best parts. Which games are you talking about? Most of the demos I've seen haven't been like that. And even without demos, you have reviews. Oh, reviewers are corrupt and have been bought by the game developers (which is partly true, but there are such things as independent reviewers).

CoD4 is too arcady, so naturally it will sell 4+:1 on the console. Really? And I assume the Orange Box is not more arcadish? Why did The Orange Box on PC significantly outsell the console versions? Explain how TF2, HL2, etc is less arcadish than CoD4. Oh, because it was a better game... That's why the Orange Box on the PS3 + XBox sold .75 million whereas CoD4 sold 7.5 million on the PS3 and XBox.

I have no disagreements that HL2 is played more than CoD4 on the PC. But, some of these were people who bought HL2 before The Orange Box. According to GameSpy at the moment, HL2 has 94439 players, and CoD4 has 16502 players. Now, if you take away CS from HL2, Orange Box players at best could consist of 14478 players. So, the Orange Box, which significantly outsold CoD4 on the PC, has fewer players than CoD4 online according to GameSpy, because it's more of a PC style game and/or a higher quality game than CoD4. The major difference between them though is that you NEED Steam for The Orange Box, and you can steal CoD4.

Now, while I agree with ObscureTerror on most of what he said, I don't think piracy is completely bad. There are some areas of grey. Yes, for indie games (and unknown games), piracy can have a beneficial factor. But those are a very, very, very small minority of games and gamers. And last I heard, Titan Quest nor CoD4 were unknown games in the PC community. Also, for out of print games, I don't think piracy is that bad, and can even be a good thing, if it means the preservation of a game. Copyright in the US is 70 years, aka 65 years too much in terms of software imho. If a company decides to reproduce it, or bring it back into circulation, I'm all for it still being illegal. But for a game that the publisher doesn't exist anymore, and the game can't be purchased, I find it more to be morally grey. Yes, there's EBay, but that poses a few problems. Games can sometimes go multiple times over their intial retail value (in the realm of several hundred or more dollars). Or the game can just not be found on EBay if it's on the older side. (Yes, some of us were born before the Playstation). Or sometimes, the media a game was on is just so old that it dies. And even if you own the game originally, it's still illegal to download it, as it's another format. As long as you can legally purchase it though, it's wrong to steal it.

 

[Oh4Sh0]

I have a copy of cod4 sitting on my shelf, and play it regularly. So does my brother, and my dad. (who are in a different state). I know that Cod4 checks for a valid cd-key when you join a server on the multiplayer version, so how is it being massively pirated??

I would think this method is the same as steam's/half life2 where it cannot be pirated, because a license server checks the legitimacy of a key prior to playing.

Anyhow, if those numbers are anywhere near true, then that is pretty sad. I have no problem spending the money for a decent game, I'm 100% satisfied with cod4. On the other hand, when I spend $50 for a game that's a pile of shit, I come away feeling pissed and ripped off. Maybe that's why I just don't play new games much anymore.

 

[pigwalk]

One of the copy-protection routines was keyed off the quest system, for example. You could start the game just fine, but when the quest triggered, it would do a security check, and dump you out if you had a pirated copy. There was another one in the streaming routine.

Dude that is AWESOME! I'll man up and admit I did DL TQ first to get a taste and I was getting those crashes and glitches. But I LOVED the damn game and I ran out while it was still 50 bucks and played the hell out of it. NO MORE CRASHES! Still haven't finished the expansion (how do you start your characters in the expo at lvl 30?) but they were both money well spent.

 

[Nytegard]

I have a copy of cod4 sitting on my shelf, and play it regularly. So does my brother, and my dad. (who are in a different state). I know that Cod4 checks for a valid cd-key when you join a server on the multiplayer version, so how is it being massively pirated??

I would think this method is the same as steam's/half life2 where it cannot be pirated, because a license server checks the legitimacy of a key prior to playing.

There are pirated servers out there which allow players with illegitimate copies to run on them. Now, while I do own CoD4, the last thing I'd want games doing is an XBox Live style online play where you only have "authorized servers". I absolutely hate how XBL treats online games, and prefer the PC style of actually being able to play on a server I want to play on, and have mods and rules that I want to play.

 

[Master Blaster]

My apologies for this cross post...

We don't serve video game developers, they serve us, they serve us by producing a game, then we pay them for that work. If that work sucks, or in some way is sub standard, then we as the consumer have the right to complain and oppose such product.

Are you delirious? Gaming companies do not work for us, and this isn’t a commissioned painting. Our power as a population either relies on buying, or not buying. This is, for the most, the only way to control a corporation. I’m not saying you cannot voice your opinion or the matter, because opinions are great. Just don’t walk around thinking that companies need to product what you want, because they don’t…

People like you don't have the balls to speak out about the injustices that happen in this country every day, the freedoms which are being taken away every day, the rights which we no longer have, people like you say nothing when your being wronged, only when others are wrong by the system which you believe is right.

This has nothing to do about nothing. No need to call names, I’m sure Rich doesn’t want to give you a vacation anymore than you want one. I encourage your deep and philosophical thought on the UNDERLYING issue of which people make decisions on this matter. But your example is getting too extreme to be of any help during these opinionated cross wars.

If someone downloads a CD (or w/e), BY LAW they are in the wrong. But the law states they owe the copywrite holder $750,000 per infraction, so by stealing a 10 dollar CD you are made liable for $750,000 per offense. No amount of logic in this world can make that reasonable or right, people like you who believe the LAW is the end all do nothing to change that. Stealing a CD is a crime, but the punishment for the crime is worse than the crime itself and does more damage than the crime could ever do. They (RIAA) want to change that law in two ways, first they want to make it $1.5 million in maximum liability, and they want to make it per track, so people downloading "greatest hits" albums can be fined even more. The people like you who defend a law such as that are worse than the people who enacted it in the first place.

Have you ever thought about why they have PENALTIES so high? Not only are these fines high to punish the criminal, but to also dissuade any future acts from happening.


These threads pop up a lot recently. It’s a strongly heated debate because there are passionate followers on either side of this issue. People are going to do what they want, and will know only what they’ve been taught. Speeches only reach those who already know about it.

 

[Silus]

Are you delirious? Gaming companies do not work for us, and this isn’t a commissioned painting. Our power as a population either relies on buying, or not buying. This is, for the most, the only way to control a corporation. I’m not saying you cannot voice your opinion or the matter, because opinions are great. Just don’t walk around thinking that companies need to product what you want, because they don’t…

Uh?!...
They do need to produce what we want, or rather, what the majority wants, otherwise they won't sell their product, which is their ultimate goal. They don't code/produce games just for the sake of it. They NEED to sell it to us, otherwise it's not profitable to be in this business, which is exactly why they got in the console market anyway.

 

[jslater25]

Those of you who justify the act of piracy (I want to try before I buy), do you plan on buying a house? How exactly do you try before you buy? Just curious. Do you go live in the house for several months while the owners are out of town to see if its one you like? How do you make sure its not a bad fit?

I just do not understand the justification for piracy. If you don't want to shell out the $60 for a game when it comes out, wait two years and the price will be $19.99 at Wal-Mart if not cheaper. Or buy your buddy's copy for a reduced price after he finishes the game (as long as he removes it from his PC). But downloading a game and playing it for a couple hours/days/weeks as a trial is pure robbery. Period. No matter how you justify it.

 

[Canadian in Berlin]

Those of you who justify the act of piracy (I want to try before I buy), do you plan on buying a house? How exactly do you try before you buy? Just curious. Do you go live in the house for several months while the owners are out of town to see if its one you like? How do you make sure its not a bad fit?

I just do not understand the justification for piracy. If you don't want to shell out the $60 for a game when it comes out, wait two years and the price will be $19.99 at Wal-Mart if not cheaper. Or buy your buddy's copy for a reduced price after he finishes the game (as long as he removes it from his PC). But downloading a game and playing it for a couple hours/days/weeks as a trial is pure robbery. Period. No matter how you justify it.

So you never test drive a car before you buy it? if you buy a new car, hand him the cash, put the key ignition and it doesn't work... well thats ok?

Or an example for me, I go to buy new forks for my bike, I'll just assume they're ok and hand him money and just hope they're actually nice and beefy, rather than giving them a good trial? But if not, oh well? At least in this case, there is often a test rig at the shop that I can try them on.

For the house example: you do a walkthrough with a home inspector to make sure the house "works" aka "isn't a shithole".

 

[Dethman]

The problem is you cant return games, because they assumed you just copied it....which is bs, because now you can save yourself even on gas and a blank DVD by downloading it

so people download it to try it, once they have it, they aren't going to uninstall and go buy it

Unless it is multiplayer and they need the key...

I think devs should make Demos more popular....like invest in advertising the demo both SP and MP...and then that in turn will advertise the game...and promise much more content in the full version..and advertise that..

and make sure the MP kicks ass

I think COD did a good job, but i think you should have need a valid key before MP even lauches, and then check again when you connect to any server, not just PB servers.....

at worst, there will be hacked servers, but not thousands of them

and then the only people hacking the game are people who only want to play the SP.....and a few people that just play in the few hacked servers

i still like valve, and think they have way less people who have hacked their games

 

[Simpson5774]

People just don't understand that piracy will never, never, never, never cease to exist, as long as their is information that people find value in, people will pirate such information, if not for financial gain, then for personal use. If copy protection can be written, it can be unwritten, plain and simple.

Since all of the above is true, its a lost cause to attempt to stop piracy by finding the petty P2Pers who share a song, or a movie, or 3 every now and then, and use it for their own personal use. You have to give people a reason for not pirating and actually paying the people who deserve to get paid.

Case and point, look at valve, they give you a robust digital download system with automatic updates, a catalog for games, a streamline way to purchace them, and a community around it (steam friends), so far its the best concept, it gives the product value after the sale. Their not suing the people who pirate games, they are giving the law abiding citizens a reason to pay for games.

Another example, this time in the music community, Nine Inch Nails trent renzor releases his new album free of charge onto the internet, onto the pirate bay, everywhere. At the same time offering people who want to pay for the music an opportunity to do such. At the same time he offers deluxe packages for $75 and $300 dollars with extras allowing for you to directly download the music for free immediately, then being sent the hard copies. By doing this according to the article above he sold 2500 copies of the deluxe version of his album and yielded 750K in 3 days, no middle man taking their steep cut, just money going directly to the people who produced it, and the people who earned it.

You may not agree with piracy, but its doing good as well, its forcing people to rethink the ways of distribution of content and how the record labels / distributors of content pay the people involved with making said material, and in general forcing all sides to raise the quality of their content. I mean whats better, a song off Itunes that cost 99 cents that comes in 128kbit AAC which is locked down with DRM, will only play in a handful of portable players and the right of ownership can't be transfered to anyone else OR, FLAC for free w/ no DRM, which can be played on any player that supports flac, sounds better, and you can do w/e you want with it. I am not supporting piracy with my previous statement, but the choice is, low quality, and almost no rights, or compete freedom, super high quality, and freeness. I mean, if I pay 99 cents, why can't I have CD quality at the same time?

Piracy is bad, but settling for low quality and restrictive file formats, and submitting to the will of greedy content gatekeepers who threat you as guilty before proven such is worse.

 

[refraxion]

The problem is you cant return games, because they assumed you just copied it....which is bs, because now you can save yourself even on gas and a blank DVD by downloading it

so people download it to try it, once they have it, they aren't going to uninstall and go buy it

Unless it is multiplayer and they need the key...

I think devs should make Demos more popular....like invest in advertising the demo both SP and MP...and then that in turn will advertise the game...and promise much more content in the full version..and advertise that..

and make sure the MP kicks ass

I think COD did a good job, but i think you should have need a valid key before MP even lauches, and then check again when you connect to any server, not just PB servers.....

at worst, there will be hacked servers, but not thousands of them

and then the only people hacking the game are people who only want to play the SP.....and a few people that just play in the few hacked servers

i still like valve, and think they have way less people who have hacked their games

Or even have single player games needing to have CDKEY required to play, and if they can make it so they have to verify online (assuming most people have an internet connection?).

 

[Simpson5774]

Or even have single player games needing to have CDKEY required to play, and if they can make it so they have to verify online (assuming most people have an internet connection?).

I believe secure-rom on games such as F.E.A.R, and a few others I can't remeber do just that. They can be circumvented, atleast for SP. MP CD key checks are usually the best solution, atleast to protect that aspect of the game.

 

[The Red]

I wonder... since the game releases at $50ish or so... would 50% more people buy the game if the price were reduced by 50% and $25 instead?

cuz... 50 is a lot for some... particularly in the age demographic these guys are targeting...

MMO demographics are different ... and so are demographics for things like Sim games and such...

 

[Chombo]

I wonder... since the game releases at $50ish or so... would 50% more people buy the game if the price were reduced by 50% and $25 instead?

cuz... 50 is a lot for some... particularly in the age demographic these guys are targeting...

MMO demographics are different ... and so are demographics for things like Sim games and such...

I think most pirates wouldn't buy games at any price. IMHO most pirates consist of children/college students with little/no disposable income, packrats, and people who think we are all stupid for paying for something that can be stolen.

 

[LunchboX3904]

People just don't understand that piracy will never, never, never, never cease to exist, as long as their is information that people find value in, people will pirate such information, if not for financial gain, then for personal use. If copy protection can be written, it can be unwritten, plain and simple.

Since all of the above is true, its a lost cause to attempt to stop piracy by finding the petty P2Pers who share a song, or a movie, or 3 every now and then, and use it for their own personal use. You have to give people a reason for not pirating and actually paying the people who deserve to get paid.

Case and point, look at valve, they give you a robust digital download system with automatic updates, a catalog for games, a streamline way to purchace them, and a community around it (steam friends), so far its the best concept, it gives the product value after the sale. Their not suing the people who pirate games, they are giving the law abiding citizens a reason to pay for games.

Another example, this time in the music community, Nine Inch Nails trent renzor releases his new album free of charge onto the internet, onto the pirate bay, everywhere. At the same time offering people who want to pay for the music an opportunity to do such. At the same time he offers deluxe packages for $75 and $300 dollars with extras allowing for you to directly download the music for free immediately, then being sent the hard copies. By doing this according to the article above he sold 2500 copies of the deluxe version of his album and yielded 750K in 3 days, no middle man taking their steep cut, just money going directly to the people who produced it, and the people who earned it.

You may not agree with piracy, but its doing good as well, its forcing people to rethink the ways of distribution of content and how the record labels / distributors of content pay the people involved with making said material, and in general forcing all sides to raise the quality of their content. I mean whats better, a song off Itunes that cost 99 cents that comes in 128kbit AAC which is locked down with DRM, will only play in a handful of portable players and the right of ownership can't be transfered to anyone else OR, FLAC for free w/ no DRM, which can be played on any player that supports flac, sounds better, and you can do w/e you want with it. I am not supporting piracy with my previous statement, but the choice is, low quality, and almost no rights, or compete freedom, super high quality, and freeness. I mean, if I pay 99 cents, why can't I have CD quality at the same time?

Piracy is bad, but settling for low quality and restrictive file formats, and submitting to the will of greedy content gatekeepers who threat you as guilty before proven such is worse.

You sir, have quite the way of thinking and i like it. Valve is the best example of progress and adaptation to the changing needs and current situation. Apple and this whole DRM thing are exactly why people resort to pirating. I have an old VX2025VM, and I'll use it until it dies....i love it, but it's not HDCP certified so the only way for me to watch hi def movies would be to pirate them. I'd gladly pay for a hd or blu ray drive, i'd gladly pay for the movies, but i'm not buying a new monitor just to run the stuff on my computer.

I think there's levels of flexibility companies could make, that they're too scared to, that could REDUCE piracy among their product, but would appear to encourage it in their eyes.

I'm confused why PC game makers don't put online verification into games. That would almost eliminate piracy right? Maybe there's more to it than that or other objections but I think that would be a great way of reducing it. And to the dev in the OP about the security check thing crashing games.........all you have to do is mention what will happen if you try to run a pirated version, or have some pop up that mentions the program did not pass the security check.

my 2 cents

 

[Simpson5774]

I'm confused why PC game makers don't put online verification into games. That would almost eliminate piracy right? Maybe there's more to it than that or other objections but I think that would be a great way of reducing it. And to the dev in the OP about the security check thing crashing games.........all you have to do is mention what will happen if you try to run a pirated version, or have some pop up that mentions the program did not pass the security check.

As I have said in previous posts, their are already such methods in place, and they have all been bypassed. Basically by fooling the game into thinking it is connecting online when it isn't, and by making think its a validated copy, therefore running. This concept works with MP CD checks because w/e you go onto a server with said protections, it checks your cd key against a database of them. Their is a way to bypass this as well, but you won't be able to play MP with other people that have valid copies of the game, only with other cracked games / servers.

Their are effective ways of blocking pirated games for MP use, not SP, because all the content is offline, You have access to the whole code and can essentially modify it, or trick it into working.

Its difficult to build a good copy protection system, because A, the more you build into a program, the more resources it uses, B The more you add, the more intrusive it gets, C if any of the above backfires for legitimate customers people revolt (see bioshock PC) and D Their are 10 times the people working to crack games then their are creating the copy protection, so its only a matter time of before any type of circumvention gets cracked.

The most high tech copy protection system yet came with bioshock, and it took them 6 days to crack it if I remeber right.

Copy protection isn't the solution, anyone who tells you otherwise is in the business of making copy protection or a fool. Copy protection hurts ONLY the legitimate consumer.

 

[ojax]

So how fucking sad is it to think about the percentage of thieves here on this forum that rave about CoD4 and have never paid for it ?? Really sad... If everyone here had to admit to being a piece of shit thief and torrent addict, the majority here would say yes.

If you download a cracked game, play it for any length of time, you are stealing. You are a thief. You are the reason horrid anti-piracy methods are used.... You are the reason less and less devs are making top games for PC...

Another interesting statistic would be what percentage of the people here that pirate games, ALSO bitch and complain about securom, prices, bugs and game length?

 

[VanQuiShEr]

I think most pirates wouldn't buy games at any price. IMHO most pirates consist of children/college students with little/no disposable income, packrats, and people who think we are all stupid for paying for something that can be stolen.

I think you need to visit a campus and reschedule yourself back into reality. College students don't have time to download and play the games. Its too long and a complete waste of time. We do have disposable income, we just trade them for beers instead of video games.

 

[PHOBOS-82]

OMW the idea that pirating a game is ok because you would not have bought it anyway is so ridiculous.

Can you imagine if everyone had that attitude towards everything?

Hey let me just take that BMW. It's not stealing because I wouldn't have bought it anyway as I like Lexus instead.
Wait maybe I like the BMW I will go back and pay for it.
If I don't like it I can just toss it away next week, and maybe try something else.

 

[PornoSatan]

I think you need to visit a campus and reschedule yourself back into reality. College students don't have time to download and play the games. Its too long and a complete waste of time. We do have disposable income, we just trade them for beers instead of video games.

Or maybe you need to come back to reality? The college my bro goes to has an internal BitTorrent server operating so people can pirate stuff from games to movies at LAN speeds. Hell he didn't even know about torrenting until he started going to college.

 

[refraxion]

^not every university is like that.

 

[PornoSatan]

^not every university is like that.

Ofcourse not, but to think college students aren't pirating things is ridiculous. And I dare not think his college is unique in that respect, as i'm absolutely positive others do or have done similar.

 

[refraxion]

Ofcourse not, but to think college students aren't pirating things is ridiculous. And I dare not think his college is unique in that respect, as i'm absolutely positive others do or have done similar.

All I know is that they banned ours and took the privileges away, lol.

 

[Silus]

Another interesting statistic would be what percentage of the people here that pirate games, ALSO bitch and complain about securom, prices, bugs and game length?

That's easy. No pirate complains. They get what they want for free, so they have no need to complain.

I actually had a laugh at some of the folks in the 2Kforums, at the time of the Bioshock debacle, that used the same reasoning as a defense to 2K's retarded copy protection measures People that BOUGHT the game complained, because they felt ripped off. They payed for a game, they could only install twice and then saw that limit raised to the amazing amount of...5... This was worse when it was found that 2K lied about the fact that, by uninstalling the game, a person would retrieve one of the lost install credits. An install credit would be lost, when you changed any important piece of hardware (hardware fingerprint), when you installed the game under a different user account, even if on the same computer (user based) or if you simply re-installed your OS (OS install). Oh and don't forget the tiny little detail that you can't even play the game, with just the content inside the DVD, because the Bioshock.exe is missing and you need to download it before you play the game.
And if you reach your install credits limit, you have to call 2K or SecuROM to increase your install limits, on a game you payed for...

Does this seem something a pirate would complain ? Sure it may take a while to crack, but will they complain about it or focus their attention on cracking it and playing the game ? It most obviously is the latter.

As for legit customers, they got screwed and payed $50 or 50-60 euros and they got a paperweight in the form of a DVD case. And a retarded 2K developer (Martin something) even called PC Gamers "funny", because they complained about these measures. And he also confirmed that these measures were put in place in the PC version, to protect console sales.

Guess what ? Before the game was cracked for the PC, links were posted in the forums of torrent sites with thousands of copies of the console version of Bioshock.

So, do pirates complain about anything ? No, they don't. They have everything for free.
But do legit customers have anything to complain ? They do and every right to do so, because not only are they are paying for a piece of crap console to PC port (quality down the drain), but they also have to deal with insane measures to play the game they payed for.

Again, piracy is a concern, yes, but I have no sympathy with the piracy argument, when PC Gamers are clearly receiving inferior quality products. Make a quality game and I'm sure, that even if it's pirated to hell and back, it will sell like hot cakes. Plenty examples of that out there. Oblivion is one of them. Oddly enough, 2K published the game and it didn't have anything more than a CD check...

 

[Canadian in Berlin]

They put in a new wireless system at my college and forgot to lock it down, word got out and people were torrenting for a total of 3 days, generally as fast as their HDs could store the data. Then it got locked down, the IT staff pulled IP addresses and MAC addresses of currently active torrenters. All of these people were promptly asked to please leave the campus as they were no longer welcome on campus.


edit: and I, as someone who admits I sample products before I buy it, am proud that they did that.
edit2: I sampled Bioshock, after seeing everyone all over the place fellating it as the "best game evaarrr111!111!!!!!shiftone!!1" I was completely disappointed and uninstalled it within 6 hours and deleted the files.