CoD 4 SP unrealistic

kumquat said:
They're boring, because real life is boring.

That's why we play video games.
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Great quote.

OP needs to take a step back for a moment and reflect upon this.

Personally, I thought that mission was one of the best in the entire game... everything leading up that was intense, and then for a climax, you have to fend off an entire army while protecting your injured buddy and waiting for a chopper. Amazingly fun and extremely challenging... who the hell would want to fight a dozen guys and win? Sounds boring and too easy to me.

You want realism? Enlist and go to Iraq.

You want to experience some of the most fun and challenging war based gaming to date? Play CoD4.
 
sl3000gt94 said:
Standard issue rifle is the M16...so if he had 4 mags that would be 120rds since they are 30rd mags
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They weren't using standard issue rifles though. I can't quite remember the book it's been years since I read it but they deployed with m21's or m14s.

Regardless the amount of Somalis they killed isn't the amazing thing the amazing thing is that they sacrificed their life against horrendous odds to protect Durant, eventually sacrificing their own.

If you want realistic install ARMA and with the Windage and Bullet drop mods, so that you have to adjust your rifle scope depending on the round and rifle you're using according to real world figures.

You'll have to spend a good amount of time developing your range cards before you even try a sniper mission, but it's pretty good fun if you're already familiar with long range shooting.

:)
 
zmjone2992 said:
You should read S.O.G by Col. John Plaster. One guy in particular, Bob Howard (won the Medal of Honor) makes Rambo look like a complete puss. They mentioned at one point in the book that for every S.O.G recon guy killed there were something like 250 confirmed enemy dead, and in Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia, I reckon that there were far more enemy dead than could be accurately confirmed.
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Yeah; by "far more enemy dead than could be confirmed" they meant "charred remains of civilians pimped-out to be Vietcong for morale-boosting purposes".
 
Wally said:
Yeah; by "far more enemy dead than could be confirmed" they meant "charred remains of civilians pimped-out to be Vietcong for morale-boosting purposes".
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That wasn't SOG, that was regular army.

While I have my personal reservations about Plaster, knowing someone who served with him, he wasn't one of those.

If you want a good book by Plaster read "Ultimate Sniper" that'll learn ya a thing or two about how realistic video games are.

:)
 
I don't really know what you were talking about, I just felt like chipping in and being opinionated.
 
Wally said:
I don't really know what you were talking about, I just felt like chipping in and being opinionated.
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So what you really mean is you don't know what you were talking about?

Regardless this thread is about how realistic the game is, which it isn't we've confirmed that. Not about slandering soldiers in Vietnam, Laos, or Cambodia.

If you want to say people killed a bunch of innocent civilians you should say it to their faces anyway. How killing innocent people would boost anyone's morale I can hardly imagine where the fuck you get a wack ass idea like that though.
 
Teknikallysekure said:
That wasn't SOG, that was regular army.

While I have my personal reservations about Plaster, knowing someone who served with him, he wasn't one of those.

If you want a good book by Plaster read "Ultimate Sniper" that'll learn ya a thing or two about how realistic video games are.

:)
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thats the one about hathcock right? If so that is a good book. Especially the through the lens shot, that was nuts:eek:
 
Teknikallysekure said:
So what you really mean is you don't know what you were talking about?

Regardless this thread is about how realistic the game is, which it isn't we've confirmed that. Not about slandering soldiers in Vietnam, Laos, or Cambodia.

If you want to say people killed a bunch of innocent civilians you should say it to their faces anyway. How killing innocent people would boost anyone's morale I can hardly imagine where the fuck you get a wack ass idea like that though.
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Colour you missing-the-point and naive.
 
I understand even less than warfare and killing about people who seem to idolize and dream about that sort of thing. But hey, that's just my opinion.

On-Topic: Dude, if CoD4 was realistic, it would have a button to answer your cell phone to take a call from your wife, who is calling to tell you she's leaving you for somebody else because of how long you've been deployed. Who cares how "realistic" a game is?
 
That sniper level was my favorite. One of the best single-player experiences I've had in an FPS game to date.
 
One example where this particular mission fails in realism is that I dumped the lame sniper on that hill and just left him to fend for himself.

I went off some place else that was more easily defendable. I chose the bumper car place - for some odd reason, enemy bullets had a hard time going through the fence of that place.

Anyhow, in the game, the other friendly sniper was for all intensive purposes invulnerable. He could be shot a million times and grenaded to hell and back - it didn't matter to the game at all. Defending him was not even a requirement for success because he could not be harmed.

It would have been far better if they reduced the number of enemies and made his survival a requirement for success which of course means he could be killed.
 
LordBritish said:
Take for example what happened those 2 elite Delta members (Gordan & Shugart) in Somalia - they got owned by probably less than what I was facing.
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What kind of a fucking twerp describes two men that gave their lives to save a comrade as getting "owned?"

You are a dumbshit, kid. As penalty, you're not allowed to play videogames for an entire week. Try the real world.
 
recursive said:
I played it on veteran.
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Sorry, I have a difficult time believing you. That mission is not passable in Vetran unless you abuse the enemy AI by setting C4 charges and then hiding yourself in the apartment blocks on the side until the very end (you kill nobody with your sniper rifle) where you set off the C4 and dash for the chopper.
 
Spare-Flair said:
Sorry, I have a difficult time believing you. That mission is not passable in Vetran unless you abuse the enemy AI by setting C4 charges and then hiding yourself in the apartment blocks on the side until the very end (you kill nobody with your sniper rifle) where you set off the C4 and dash for the chopper.
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I call bullshit too, not on the passing it in veteran (because I did), but on the "doing it in one try" and then calling it easy.

If you miscalculate once in that part, and let even one enemy soldier get a bead on you, you die. You have to use multiple strats to pass it on vet, and change locations at some point in time, before you finally go hide by the bumper cars, or something similar.

Staying in one place during the first few waves gets you a hail of grenades bordering on the ridiculous.
 
Kahnvex said:
I call bullshit too, not on the passing it in veteran (because I did), but on the "doing it in one try" and then calling it easy.

If you miscalculate once in that part, and let even one enemy soldier get a bead on you, you die. You have to use multiple strats to pass it on vet, and change locations at some point in time, before you finally go hide by the bumper cars, or something similar.

Staying in one place during the first few waves gets you a hail of grenades bordering on the ridiculous.
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Yes, he was bullshitting definetely, there is no way you can sit with a dragonov (without claymores and C4) and snipe the roughly 200+ enemies that spawn at you in Vetran for 10-15 minutes, all of them with perfect aim and perfect grenade tosses (surrounding you) every 10 seconds...especially on the first try. Unless he has videoproof, it's an outright lie. It might be possible on regular and a bare chance on hardened, but on Vetran, that is simply not possible. The easy strategy for that mission in vetran is actually to not fire off a shot at all. Just hide on the very edge of the map and enemies won't come to you because of the flawed waypoint system of their AI. I went prone there and turned on ragtime mode (it actually speeds up the game about 33% to simulate old films) to pass the time until the chopper landed. Then I set off all my C4s and ran like mad.
 
I don't know why people have trouble with that... I saw one dog, and maybe 8 bad guys the entire level carrying him.

Literally. not on easy either. Just kept moving.
 
Thats before you get to the wheel though. When you set him down on the little mound beside the wheel (the glowing objective) and then are told to plant some claymores.
 
lopoetve said:
hmmm... don't remember that part :p
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Maybe you never passed that mission??? You can't pass the Chernobyl mission without defending the Ferriswheel. On Vetran, before Capt. MacMillan gets injured, you run into about 100 enemies. When you are carrying him and he asks you to set him down or you get to the park where the chopper drops troops, there are about 10 guys. When you get to the apartments, there are 2 dogs and 3 random guys that are in there that shoot you instantly when you round a corner. After the swimming pool, you go out to the Ferriswheel, set Macmillan down, he tells you to plant claymores around the area, and then you see the chopper distance count-down about 200 enemies spawn at you constantly over 10-15 minutes...all with perfect aim and chucking 5 grenades at your feet every 10 seconds.
 
Spare-Flair said:
Maybe you never passed that mission??? You can't pass the Chernobyl mission without defending the Ferriswheel. On Vetran, before Capt. MacMillan gets injured, you run into about 100 enemies. When you are carrying him and he asks you to set him down or you get to the park where the chopper drops troops, there are about 10 guys. When you get to the apartments, there are 2 dogs and 3 random guys that are in there that shoot you instantly when you round a corner. After the swimming pool, you go out to the Ferriswheel, set Macmillan down, he tells you to plant claymores around the area, and then you see the chopper distance count-down about 200 enemies spawn at you constantly over 10-15 minutes...all with perfect aim and chucking 5 grenades at your feet every 10 seconds.
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no no, I played it... just don't remember that part much. seemed to go by fast. :p
 
The only passable complaint in the OP is that it is an arcade war game, might not be your cup of tea but it is exactly why SP was awesome.

Sniping is with a spotter and as far as having to kill many enemies, wars are like that. Maybe not current counter-insurgency like Iraq but eg WWII
 
zmjone2992 said:
neither of them had m-16s. One had an m-4 the other had a souped up m-14. M-14's standard mag is 20 rounds.
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Nope, read the book - for the person who could not remember the book title...you mean "Black Hawk Down" (same as the movie title) by Mark Bowden? Good book, better than the movie.

As for the guns they had, they both had M-21s. The M-21 is a "special" or pick of the litter M-14 - which showed improved accuracy in testing, has a better stock and so on. Default mag is 20 rounds for the military - if you buy it as a civilian, I think you can still only get 10 round box mags, but who knows, which Clinton's ban on guns expired, you MIGHT be able to find a 20 rnd mag.

The delta snipers (and many soldiers in Iraq now) use the M-14/M-21 simply because it has serious stopping power, which a smaller caliber gun such as the M-4 or M-16 (stoner guns) lack. They have piercing ability...bullet goes in and out...on the other hand, the larger caliber 14s and 21s have a hell of a lot of stopping power....consider the M-14 to be an accurate and heftier version of the AK-47. Just as durable. If I had to pick my gun for in Iraq or any similar situation....I'd want a M-14. Hell, I'd take a M-1 Garand over the M-4/16. Only but ONLY place I'd want something like an M-4 is if the situation was room clearing type stuff...at which point you don't want an M-4 anyway, you take a MP5...a FN P-90 or any number of SMGs.




And to the person about the "snipers getting owned" point...yeah, I agree. They didn't get owned. They put their lives on the line, knowing they would probably die. I respect and admire what they did.
 
You're mostly right on the stopping power argument: The .308 (7.62x51) round has better penetration of cover: It can go through small amounts of concrete, cars, etc, whereas a .223 round will not. Just to clarify.
 
lopoetve said:
It can go through small amounts of concrete, cars, etc, whereas a .223 round will not. Just to clarify.
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I beg to differ on the .223 round not penetrating those objects...


http://www.theboxotruth.com/

Great site for testing multiple types of rounds on strange objects/vests and so on.

And as for the weapons ban, it depends on the state you are in, i am in Alaska currently and own a PTR-91 (Semi auto version of H&K G3) I have 3 20 round mags and it fires .308
Of all the strange objects ive shot at, I would NOT want to be on the receiving end of ANY rifle firing that round. I also own a Ruger Mini-14 with 2 30 round mags (fires .223) Tracers are legal up here (fun stuff) ive shot at metal pots, bowling pins, old cars, etc.
I can attest it does not have a hard time of punching neat round holes in metal objects.
 
evanisthecoastie said:
I beg to differ on the .223 round not penetrating those objects...


http://www.theboxotruth.com/

Great site for testing multiple types of rounds on strange objects/vests and so on.

And as for the weapons ban, it depends on the state you are in, i am in Alaska currently and own a PTR-91 (Semi auto version of H&K G3) I have 3 20 round mags and it fires .308
Of all the strange objects ive shot at, I would NOT want to be on the receiving end of ANY rifle firing that round. I also own a Ruger Mini-14 with 2 30 round mags (fires .223) Tracers are legal up here (fun stuff) ive shot at metal pots, bowling pins, old cars, etc.
I can attest it does not have a hard time of punching neat round holes in metal objects.
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I didn't say wouldn't penetrate, I said penetrate as FAR. Hit up Boston's Gun Bible, he did a full set of tests in there.

To summarize, a .223 round penetrated
1.4" of concrete at 100yds
would penetrate 1/4" boilerplate at 100yds
and a door of a 1968 dodge at 300 yds

A .308 NATO round penetrates:
4" of concrete at 100yds
1/4" boilerplate at 300yds
and the dodge at 400yds with room to spare.

The .308 has much better penetration of cover than the .223 does.
 
lopoetve said:
I didn't say wouldn't penetrate, I said penetrate as FAR. Hit up Boston's Gun Bible, he did a full set of tests in there.

To summarize, a .223 round penetrated
1.4" of concrete at 100yds
would penetrate 1/4" boilerplate at 100yds
and a door of a 1968 dodge at 300 yds

A .308 NATO round penetrates:
4" of concrete at 100yds
1/4" boilerplate at 300yds
and the dodge at 400yds with room to spare.

The .308 has much better penetration of cover than the .223 does.
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Not to mention the reaction of the bullet post penetration. The .223 will have a large divergence in path even if through some miracle it manages to stay intact after penetration.

Even TAP will likely be useless after hitting this type of thing unless you're just trying to scare them out of their cover, which probably would work. If they have ballistic protection they're pretty safe.

Heck, depending on the twist rate of the barrel and bullet weight they're using with the .223 thick brush can completely deflect .223.

Now, .308 on the other hand can penetrate and in some cases continue without to much divergence in path while retaining lethality both through immediate wound channel and temporary wound cavity.

.223 has very little temporary wound cavity properties, and takes much more focused shot placement to effectively "stop" a human being.

I haven't really tested all this out in COD4, but it'd be interesting to see how much of this is really modeled into the game.

This is ontopic right, we're talking about realism in video games.

:)

OP, like I said if you want realism in gaming you're going to have to play ARMA with the Windage and BDC mod(found in ARMA forums).

COD4 is like many have stated intended to be more of an epic war movie playing experience.
 
DeathCloud said:
I just lost 50 IQ points after for reading this.
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postcount++ eh? The thread deviated to something interesting other than "its a game"....I don't see how that is bad. Maybe I missed your point, or you didn't read the topic...or something.
 
LordBritish said:
Well I just finished that SP level where you''re a sniper and you've got another lame sniper with you. That's the one next to the ferris wheel. In the end you gotta carry your lame buddy to the chopper - if you live that is.

Anyhow you gotta fight off waves after waves of enemies - i mean dozens (may be 50-70 enemies and dogs).

How realistic is that?

Take for example what happened those 2 elite Delta members (Gordan & Shugart) in Somalia - they got owned by probably less than what I was facing.

I know it's game but it should strive to be somewhat realistic.

Ok </RANT>

Nuff said.
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Shit, I dont know about realistic but that sounds fun as shit. I dont care if I die a lot and have to retry a bunch of times, id have damn fun doing it. That level is fuckin awesome...
 
lopoetve said:
no no, I played it... just don't remember that part much. seemed to go by fast. :p
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Ok either you played on very easy mode, or you were on drugs and/or had an alcoholic blackout during that part of the game.

Easily goes down in video gaming history as one of the most frusterating gaming moments EVER.

And to the guy who called it easy on veteran, post a youtube video, I DARE YOU. :p
 
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