Cloud Imperium Issues Official Statement about Rumored Financial Issues

[capt_cope]

ffs... this game isn't finished yet? Honestly I forgot about this game and kind of assumed Chris Roberts had been sued out of existence a LONG time ago. It's obviously a scam, maybe it didn't start out with that intention, but even so it's pretty clearly turned into one. He raised how many million dollars and still can't deliver a finished product? He's taking the business equivalent of a payday loan and STILL people are like "oh he's so wise playing the forex like that" Just give it a few more years, then it'll get REALLY good.

 

[JRUHg]

it's coming!

been waiting big publisher strikes back five years. no mods so far.

ubisoft is top on list. both assassins creed and far cry add in up some interesting futures. no evil and good the "scale"

 

[Stiler]

ffs... this game isn't finished yet? Honestly I forgot about this game and kind of assumed Chris Roberts had been sued out of existence a LONG time ago. It's obviously a scam, maybe it didn't start out with that intention, but even so it's pretty clearly turned into one. He raised how many million dollars and still can't deliver a finished product? He's taking the business equivalent of a payday loan and STILL people are like "oh he's so wise playing the forex like that" Just give it a few more years, then it'll get REALLY good.

This line of thinking is what baffles me.

They have released playable builds, 3.0 is coming later this year, they post their entire development schedule on what they are currently working on on the website for anyone to see.

On top of this, how long do you think it takes to developer a huge game from the ground up while also building up the development teams across multiple studios? Look at how long it took GTA V or other huge games.

Yet some people think they should have had this game finished and wrapped up in like 2 years magically somehow.

 

[oldmanbal]

The number of studios and people they have working on this in different countries is pretty massive by even today's standards. I don't see how they could continue to fund this since so many people have essentially been burned out putting money into something that is going the way of DAYZ. This has been screaming money pit for a LONG time now. You're not just paying for graphics artists. You're also paying for their secretaries, lawyers, maintenance, security, ect. Having THAT MANY offices around the globe is INCREDIBLY expensive, rip.

 

[oldmanbal]

This line of thinking is what baffles me.

They have released playable builds, 3.0 is coming later this year, they post their entire development schedule on what they are currently working on on the website for anyone to see.

On top of this, how long do you think it takes to developer a huge game from the ground up while also building up the development teams across multiple studios? Look at how long it took GTA V or other huge games.

Yet some people think they should have had this game finished and wrapped up in like 2 years magically somehow.

Problem is, everytime they finish something, they've decided to add 10 more things, and fix 100 that those effected. The long production video (10-20 min) they released a little while back showed how tedious it is to add new mechanics that were never intended to be implemented on their current tech, and how much additional work is required for simple requests. It's staggering, and DAYZ can attest to it more than any other game out there.

 

[Semantics]

This line of thinking is what baffles me.

They have released playable builds, 3.0 is coming later this year, they post their entire development schedule on what they are currently working on on the website for anyone to see.

On top of this, how long do you think it takes to developer a huge game from the ground up while also building up the development teams across multiple studios? Look at how long it took GTA V or other huge games.

Yet some people think they should have had this game finished and wrapped up in like 2 years magically somehow.

It's been what 5 years wasn't their original goal 2014 release? It took GTA V what 5 years and less money(minus marketing) color me not impressed.

 

[capt_cope]

This line of thinking is what baffles me.

They have released playable builds, 3.0 is coming later this year, they post their entire development schedule on what they are currently working on on the website for anyone to see.

On top of this, how long do you think it takes to developer a huge game from the ground up while also building up the development teams across multiple studios? Look at how long it took GTA V or other huge games.

Yet some people think they should have had this game finished and wrapped up in like 2 years magically somehow.

The difference between this and GTA V (or any other huge game) is staggering - GTA V and other huge games ship. If the game had shipped years ago (even with scaled back expectations) with the idea that expansion packs would be coming I doubt it would get the reaction it does today. It's an unfinished game that's blown epic amounts of money over half a decade and continues to expands in scope. It's like a field guide on how not to manage a project. Bottom line: Star Citizen is a clear image of a picture with no focus.

 

[EvilWays]

Ironic, as the real "triggered" seem to be the folks who start foaming at the mouth at the slightest mention of Star Citizen, when they have nothing invested in the first place.

Actually, that's not true. Shout the name "Anita Sarkeesian" in a crowded gaming convention (preferably from up high)...

 

[ChadD]

This line of thinking is what baffles me.

They have released playable builds, 3.0 is coming later this year, they post their entire development schedule on what they are currently working on on the website for anyone to see.

On top of this, how long do you think it takes to developer a huge game from the ground up while also building up the development teams across multiple studios? Look at how long it took GTA V or other huge games.

Yet some people think they should have had this game finished and wrapped up in like 2 years magically somehow.

One its not from the ground up. They are not creating a game engine they are using one. SC was announced 5 years ago... which yes 5 yrs is pushing the time frame of a AAA game release. A few have went longer then that... most don't. They are now pushing 160 million dollars which will land them the title of most expensive game ever produced by a pretty large margin. Yes there are lists that report 200-260 million for a few games like GTA Call of duty ect, however those budgets all include in the range of 100-150 million in marketing costs. In terms of pure development costs Roberts game takes the cake.... and as I mentioned is still licencing an engine. (which is huge as most of those other AAA releases included the high priced programming talent that is 2-3x more expensive then the level of programmers Roberts has hired to build a game on Cry)

If Roberts released a game in 2 years we would have been playing a full SC game since 2014 (you know when Roberts said it would be released for 2 years until it wasn't). Mid 2017... its a scam... hearing that he now playing the same tax shell swap games he played with Ascendant Pictures should put it into focus for those that still believe this isn't a big huge get rich scam for Roberts. (if you don't know this mans history do yourself a favor and look it up... that which he hasn't scrubbed off the internet on his donors dime.)

I have said it before and I'll say it again. Robets plan was to sell off Cloud Imp in 2015 or so for a big huge chunk of change and get back into movies. He pulled that scam on MS once... and it seems the game industry wised up this time around. Same reason all those investors waiting to see the demand for the game to jump in never showed up.

 

[Stiler]

One its not from the ground up. They are not creating a game engine they are using one. SC was announced 5 years ago... which yes 5 yrs is pushing the time frame of a AAA game release. A few have went longer then that... most don't. They are now pushing 160 million dollars which will land them the title of most expensive game ever produced by a pretty large margin. Yes there are lists that report 200-260 million for a few games like GTA Call of duty ect, however those budgets all include in the range of 100-150 million in marketing costs. In terms of pure development costs Roberts game takes the cake.... and as I mentioned is still licencing an engine. (which is huge as most of those other AAA releases included the high priced programming talent that is 2-3x more expensive then the level of programmers Roberts has hired to build a game on Cry)

If Roberts released a game in 2 years we would have been playing a full SC game since 2014 (you know when Roberts said it would be released for 2 years until it wasn't). Mid 2017... its a scam... hearing that he now playing the same tax shell swap games he played with Ascendant Pictures should put it into focus for those that still believe this isn't a big huge get rich scam for Roberts. (if you don't know this mans history do yourself a favor and look it up... that which he hasn't scrubbed off the internet on his donors dime.)

I have said it before and I'll say it again. Robets plan was to sell off Cloud Imp in 2015 or so for a big huge chunk of change and get back into movies. He pulled that scam on MS once... and it seems the game industry wised up this time around. Same reason all those investors waiting to see the demand for the game to jump in never showed up.

When it comes to engines even using one and then having to build a lot on top of it to get what you want is a lot of work. The Crytek engine wasn't made for giant open space areas and detail on huge scales like full planets. They' have had to build a lot onto it.

When i said the ground up I was talking about the studios/development teams. They didn't start with multiple studios or a lot of people, just a handful of people working to get the initial work done to show in the kickstarter pitch video.

Their initial plan was to focus on Squadron 42 and then patch in the other stuff later on, having a controlled single player game would have been quicker to finish before all the other things. However part way through development they released that working on both together would help keep both aspects (single player + mp persistent universe) on the same scale/gameplay and not have issues developing things between them and then having to go back and try to fit something in the other.

 

[Shotglass01]

You make it sound like Chris Roberts committed some heinous crime against you or society in the past. The way I see it, and I could be wrong, is that he made one of the most successful space games in history back in the 80s and 90s, some other decent games and some failures along the way. How is that any different from any other single name game creator in the short history of computer games? BTW, how many single name game creators can you even list? Not too many, huh. I say give the man a chance, nobody is being held by gunpoint to "donate" and quite honestly, you have to agree, that many of the recent games from the likes of EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Sony, Micro$oft (the list goes on), absolutely suck - not all of them but oh so many. Do you not see a trend of smaller/indy game devs attempting to innovate new ideas far away from and in the shadows of these peddlers of mediocrity? Sadly most of them will cave in to the mighty dollar and or actually need outside money from larger entities to progress. I for one am tired of the Walmart game pub model and see some of these new projects as a breath of fresh air in a stagnating industry (PC) which is now on the rise, again. I actually appreciate someone pushing the envelope of what our definition of a great gaming experience is not to mention expand the bounds of fidelity and features. But to hold something against one of these up-and-comers (or reborn) who actually found success in crowdfunding to the tune of 153 million dollars makes me wonder about the motives about some of the most vocal voices against these types of projects. You hear the squeaky wheel the loudest and I personally believe no crowdfunding project would be so far along if the majority of the peeps that donated were against the direction it was going in. No? I say leave the innovation to those bat-crazy dudes that want to put their balls on the crushing block. I hate the cliche "disruptive" but I do admire the ambition of anyone that sticks their middle finger up at tradition and make their own path, to make something better for all. Hopefully, one day, we will be able to thank some of these peeps for what they brought to the table or not... at least they tried. May not be as noble as curing cancer, but at least for me, enjoyable entertainment is what keeps me sane.

I actually wanted to believe this too. I kind of still hope something comes out of this. But I suspect, similar to 3D Realms, it'll eventually stall out, go defunct, have a major player buy the IP and assets, and rush some kind of space sim out the door. The thing is, this 'game' is now so huge with so many tiers and special one-off's that I have no interest in playing. I'd like to play a game, not make it a lifestyle. At this point, I can't see enough interested players to keep it going with monthly subs and such.

 

[ChadD]

You make it sound like Chris Roberts committed some heinous crime against you or society in the past. The way I see it, and I could be wrong, is that he made one of the most successful space games in history back in the 80s and 90s, some other decent games and some failures along the way. How is that any different from any other single name game creator in the short history of computer games? BTW, how many single name game creators can you even list? Not too many, huh. I say give the man a chance, nobody is being held by gunpoint to "donate" and quite honestly, you have to agree, that many of the recent games from the likes of EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Sony, Micro$oft (the list goes on), absolutely suck - not all of them but oh so many. Do you not see a trend of smaller/indy game devs attempting to innovate new ideas far away from and in the shadows of these peddlers of mediocrity? Sadly most of them will cave in to the mighty dollar and or actually need outside money from larger entities to progress. I for one am tired of the Walmart game pub model and see some of these new projects as a breath of fresh air in a stagnating industry (PC) which is now on the rise, again. I actually appreciate someone pushing the envelope of what our definition of a great gaming experience is not to mention expand the bounds of fidelity and features. But to hold something against one of these up-and-comers (or reborn) who actually found success in crowdfunding to the tune of 153 million dollars makes me wonder about the motives about some of the most vocal voices against these types of projects. You hear the squeaky wheel the loudest and I personally believe no crowdfunding project would be so far along if the majority of the peeps that donated were against the direction it was going in. No? I say leave the innovation to those bat-crazy dudes that want to put their balls on the crushing block. I hate the cliche "disruptive" but I do admire the ambition of anyone that sticks their middle finger up at tradition and make their own path, to make something better for all. Hopefully, one day, we will be able to thank some of these peeps for what they brought to the table or not... at least they tried. May not be as noble as curing cancer, but at least for me, enjoyable entertainment is what keeps me sane.

His history is greatly exaggerated. He can't claim much at all in truth. He is a terrible producer, he is a poor coder... and you can read stories from people like spector about him seeing true revolutionary stuff at origin and just not getting it.

Roberts pitched the initial idea of Wing Commander to Origin, he was just a kid really and kudos to him for getting himself in the door. WC was produced by Warren Spector a far more talented producer.. and Spector was almost completely responsible for WC2. Spector later produced the Ultima underworld games, System Shock, and Thief. He was then hired by EA to make command and conquer games... but before he did he was hired away by John Romero to join Ion Storm where he created Deus Ex. Right now he is one of the primaries at OtherSide Entertainment and they are working on new underworld and system shock games.

Roberts then produced Strike Commander and he almost bankrupted Origin. (From the Wiki - The Strike Commander project took more than four years and over a million man hours on background development. Very little of that production time turned out to be actually usable in the final product, as at least one and possibly several complete project "reboots" were required to refine the graphical engine to a playable state.)

He has no idea how to control a budget. Pretty much every WC game after the first couple headed by Spector where extremely over budget... one story that came form Orgins owners about WC IV(a story Roberts has scrubbed form the net) was that it shipped when the owners said ship it today or tomorrow everyones pay cheque bounces.

After Origin he founded Digital Anvil. At DA he spent his time making the WC movie... and I think we all know how that went. During that time he HIRED Warthog to produce Starlancer. StarLancer was an ok game and Roberts ensured he had a credit on the game but he had almost nothing to do with its development. After the movie flopped he started pulling in investment bucks to make Freelancer. He wasted years and millions... MS was looking to build a gaming studio empire and Roberts sucked them into buying DA. After the sale Roberts left... MS sold off the other games DA had started to Ubisoft and had to spend another 2 years finishing Freelancer. MS believed the game was months away from shipping and learned different when the sale went through. (which is likely why Roberts hasn't been able to sell Cloud Imp)

After that Roberts founded one movie studio that failed with no projects. Then he founded Ascendant Pictures... which did produce a few half way decent movies. The problem is they got a reputation for going over budget on every project they started and where constantly chasing investors. (he learned the tax / currency exchange games at this point no doubt) Ascendant Pictures fell apart after multiple investors pulled out and Roberts was stringing Kevin Costner along to make his next picture. That ended in Costner winning a 8+ million judgment against them... and it was pretty much the end of Ascendant they sold off what was left.

A year later... he is begging for money to make the game of his dreams. With the promise that he had investors lined up... and that once he proved he could move the project forward with Crowd Funding proving the market for the game they would jump in and fund the rest of the game. (pretty much the same line of BS he fed Costner... which cost him 8 mil a few years before).

 

[TheOne&OnlyZeke]

After two years of them not getting anywhere I hassled them and got my money back
Fuck that game

 

[Smutacus]

His history is greatly exaggerated. He can't claim much at all in truth. He is a terrible producer, he is a poor coder... and you can read stories from people like spector about him seeing true revolutionary stuff at origin and just not getting it.

(snip)

A thousand times this. Another thing most people don't know is how his misspending at Origin facilitated EA coming in to bail them out. After Wing 4 Roberts was shown the door. He is a cocky, arrogant one hit wonder of a game designer, and his bullshit is what actually killed OSI. EA buried the corpse.

 

[Exavior]

I don't understand the netrage, to be honest. If you backed it, and you think it'll be a flop, get a refund or sell your pledge to someone else. If you didn't back it, why do you care? It's not your money.

Because this is the internet

I don't have to have lost money to bernie madoff to say I hope he spends the rest of his life in prison.

Roberts is a scammer he always has been. You don't have to buy snake oil to call a SO salesman out.

What is the worst bit of the entire situation is Roberts is going to make it harder for larger scale legit crowd funding game projects. Not that I'm a a huge fan of the larger scale ones anyway... if your game idea is that great get investors. If you can't get investors their is likely very good reason. Roberts claimed to have lots of investors that just needed to see a crowd funding start to jump in.... be interested to know where they all went. lol

How is he a scammer? He is your normal game company. Look at Duke Nukem Forever, Kingdom Hearts 3, Final Fantasy XII Versus... sorry Final Fantasy XV, any Fable game scratch that any game by Peter Molyneux period.

Many games get stuck in development hell while changed over and over again. Normally the ones that end up taking forever and come out as shit are because they shareholders and a board forcing them to release it as they are tired of it being pushed back so many times.

Then you have games like Ark Survival that hasn't even been finished or released and is selling DLC packs as they are working on extra content instead of finishing the game.

Like Logan32 said, if you didn't invest in the game you really have no room to bitch about how long it is taking and the fact that people gave it money, unless they are truly doing something illegal. The people that backed it have something to play right now. Might not be a full game but they still have something to play. People that backed it are content right now. This is always the risk when you back anything, it might take longer than expected or may never come out. The only reason this game is on everyone's watch list is because of how much money it brought it. Had it been a game that brought it $200,000 and was doing the same thing nobody would give a shit. In video games you might as well assume every year planned for a release cycle will be 4.

 

[Bowman15]

Ironic, as the real "triggered" seem to be the folks who start foaming at the mouth at the slightest mention of Star Citizen, when they have nothing invested in the first place.

LOL no irony here. I just posted that the new release was delayed. Nothing derogatory at all and it triggered the defense force...just as it did yourself...

 

[Pringle]

If Star Citizen backers are so confused over why the game gets ripped on every time a Star Citizen article is published, maybe they should be hounding the devs to....I don't know....follow their own release dates they themselves publish?

You don't need to back a game to rip on it. Star Citizen is far too easy to criticize, and it's Roberts own damn fault.

 

[Krazy925]

His history is greatly exaggerated. He can't claim much at all in truth. He is a terrible producer, he is a poor coder... and you can read stories from people like spector about him seeing true revolutionary stuff at origin and just not getting it.

Roberts pitched the initial idea of Wing Commander to Origin, he was just a kid really and kudos to him for getting himself in the door. WC was produced by Warren Spector a far more talented producer.. and Spector was almost completely responsible for WC2. Spector later produced the Ultima underworld games, System Shock, and Thief. He was then hired by EA to make command and conquer games... but before he did he was hired away by John Romero to join Ion Storm where he created Deus Ex. Right now he is one of the primaries at OtherSide Entertainment and they are working on new underworld and system shock games.

Roberts then produced Strike Commander and he almost bankrupted Origin. (From the Wiki - The Strike Commander project took more than four years and over a million man hours on background development. Very little of that production time turned out to be actually usable in the final product, as at least one and possibly several complete project "reboots" were required to refine the graphical engine to a playable state.)

He has no idea how to control a budget. Pretty much every WC game after the first couple headed by Spector where extremely over budget... one story that came form Orgins owners about WC IV(a story Roberts has scrubbed form the net) was that it shipped when the owners said ship it today or tomorrow everyones pay cheque bounces.

After Origin he founded Digital Anvil. At DA he spent his time making the WC movie... and I think we all know how that went. During that time he HIRED Warthog to produce Starlancer. StarLancer was an ok game and Roberts ensured he had a credit on the game but he had almost nothing to do with its development. After the movie flopped he started pulling in investment bucks to make Freelancer. He wasted years and millions... MS was looking to build a gaming studio empire and Roberts sucked them into buying DA. After the sale Roberts left... MS sold off the other games DA had started to Ubisoft and had to spend another 2 years finishing Freelancer. MS believed the game was months away from shipping and learned different when the sale went through. (which is likely why Roberts hasn't been able to sell Cloud Imp)

After that Roberts founded one movie studio that failed with no projects. Then he founded Ascendant Pictures... which did produce a few half way decent movies. The problem is they got a reputation for going over budget on every project they started and where constantly chasing investors. (he learned the tax / currency exchange games at this point no doubt) Ascendant Pictures fell apart after multiple investors pulled out and Roberts was stringing Kevin Costner along to make his next picture. That ended in Costner winning a 8+ million judgment against them... and it was pretty much the end of Ascendant they sold off what was left.

A year later... he is begging for money to make the game of his dreams. With the promise that he had investors lined up... and that once he proved he could move the project forward with Crowd Funding proving the market for the game they would jump in and fund the rest of the game. (pretty much the same line of BS he fed Costner... which cost him 8 mil a few years before).

... just waiting for the fans to come in and call you Derek Smart for daring to question Roberts.
I love these threads. The fans get all upset about history.

 

[Dan_D]

I don't understand the netrage, to be honest. If you backed it, and you think it'll be a flop, get a refund or sell your pledge to someone else. If you didn't back it, why do you care? It's not your money.

I wouldn't say it's net rage. Sure there are some people who are foaming at the mouth when this game gets mentioned, but it sparks a discussion because of how bad the situation looks. You've basically got three kinds of people involved in these discussions.

1.) People who backed the game, and make excuses for it.
2.) People who backed the game and are concerned about the game's future.
3.) People who didn't back the game and watch from the sidelines who may play armchair game developer.

First off, this is 'Merica! so armchair development is fine. I don't have a problem with it and I say that as someone who backed the game. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, regardless of how well informed the person sharing this opinion actually is. Secondly, as someone who backed the game, I'm concerned by the missed milestone dates and the negative PR that keeps surfacing about development conditions, Cloud Imperium Games and Chris Roberts himself. I watch the American Greed show quite frequently, and there are a lot of commonalities in all the financial schemes the show profiles. Star Citizen shares a lot of common traits found in those cases. I think anyone who backed this game or wanted to see it released should be concerned about the game and it's future. Even if you didn't back the game, or don't care about playing it either way, the situation is interesting to say the least.

There are lots of reasons to want to know what's going on or watch from the sidelines. If you are into law enforcement, investments, finance, game development, the gaming industry, space combat games, or if you backed this one, it's easy to understand your interest.

It's fun watching the biggest slow motion train wreck in pc gaming history. Even funner watching people throwing gobs of money at pictures of ships LOL. It will provide at least a couple more years of entertainment and delays. Don't care if I have no skin in the game, gonna post and enjoy it anyway.

I did the minimum $45 package which guaranteed me a ship, lifetime insurance on it and the full game itself upon release. I threw that minimum donation at it because I wanted to see the space combat sim revitalized and I backed the game early, as Chris Robert's presentation video inspired confidence in his vision. I knew full well what the risks were with any crowd funded project, and that this wasn't even an investment in a single game, but rather a genre that has virtually died out that I'd like to see come back.

Ah, but the kickstarter did set goals and dates, they have completely ignored pretty much every one of them though.

This is the first real sign of trouble. What's worse is that people think CIG is being transparent by providing them screenshots, demos with minimal functionality and pictures of ships.

Which is exactly the point. Maybe SC will be the greatest but the development process is complete crap.

I doubt the game will ever be released in any state that's close to what was promised. My sense is that Chris Roberts had the best intentions, but he doesn't actually know how to deliver. That's the common theme in all the cases of Ponzi schemes, and other financial fraud that I see profiled on American Greed. Many of the people involved in these things have the best intentions but they get lured by easy money that they don't think they have to pay back, or worse feel entitled to. Of course, it is possible that Star Citizen / Squadron 42's delayed development is due to negligence or incompetence from management. From our perspective, I don't think it matters. The difference is this, if you are scamming money, you keep the circle who knows this or benefits from this small. You get more money to go around and you have less chance of someone putting an end to your ride on the gravy train. If you have a project that's not hitting it's milestones and lacks direction, you hire someone to get you back on track. You make the changes required to bring the project into focus so you can get your product to market. It would take a colossal ego to keep stumbling around like an idiot year after year without getting anything accomplished. I suppose it's possible, but it seems unlikely.

You make it sound like Chris Roberts committed some heinous crime against you or society in the past. The way I see it, and I could be wrong, is that he made one of the most successful space games in history back in the 80s and 90s, some other decent games and some failures along the way. How is that any different from any other single name game creator in the short history of computer games? BTW, how many single name game creators can you even list? Not too many, huh. I say give the man a chance, nobody is being held by gunpoint to "donate" and quite honestly, you have to agree, that many of the recent games from the likes of EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Sony, Micro$oft (the list goes on), absolutely suck - not all of them but oh so many. Do you not see a trend of smaller/indy game devs attempting to innovate new ideas far away from and in the shadows of these peddlers of mediocrity? Sadly most of them will cave in to the mighty dollar and or actually need outside money from larger entities to progress. I for one am tired of the Walmart game pub model and see some of these new projects as a breath of fresh air in a stagnating industry (PC) which is now on the rise, again. I actually appreciate someone pushing the envelope of what our definition of a great gaming experience is not to mention expand the bounds of fidelity and features. But to hold something against one of these up-and-comers (or reborn) who actually found success in crowdfunding to the tune of 153 million dollars makes me wonder about the motives about some of the most vocal voices against these types of projects. You hear the squeaky wheel the loudest and I personally believe no crowdfunding project would be so far along if the majority of the peeps that donated were against the direction it was going in. No? I say leave the innovation to those bat-crazy dudes that want to put their balls on the crushing block. I hate the cliche "disruptive" but I do admire the ambition of anyone that sticks their middle finger up at tradition and make their own path, to make something better for all. Hopefully, one day, we will be able to thank some of these peeps for what they brought to the table or not... at least they tried. May not be as noble as curing cancer, but at least for me, enjoyable entertainment is what keeps me sane.

Chris Roberts didn't make those games alone. There are accounts suggesting his role in those projects is much smaller than he claims. The rest of what you said is immaterial for the simple reason that the game has missed all its milestones by a long shot and one of the biggest promises, wasn't ever delivered and is years late. Squadron 42 was a simple squadron based space game which should have been easily deliverable and well under their current budget. The fact that it wasn't practically proves the point that Chris Roberts doesn't have the faintest clue how to get shit done.

ffs... this game isn't finished yet? Honestly I forgot about this game and kind of assumed Chris Roberts had been sued out of existence a LONG time ago. It's obviously a scam, maybe it didn't start out with that intention, but even so it's pretty clearly turned into one. He raised how many million dollars and still can't deliver a finished product? He's taking the business equivalent of a payday loan and STILL people are like "oh he's so wise playing the forex like that" Just give it a few more years, then it'll get REALLY good.

Well said. I think this post nails the situation on the head perfectly.

It's been what 5 years wasn't their original goal 2014 release? It took GTA V what 5 years and less money(minus marketing) color me not impressed.

His history is greatly exaggerated. He can't claim much at all in truth. He is a terrible producer, he is a poor coder... and you can read stories from people like spector about him seeing true revolutionary stuff at origin and just not getting it.

Roberts pitched the initial idea of Wing Commander to Origin, he was just a kid really and kudos to him for getting himself in the door. WC was produced by Warren Spector a far more talented producer.. and Spector was almost completely responsible for WC2. Spector later produced the Ultima underworld games, System Shock, and Thief. He was then hired by EA to make command and conquer games... but before he did he was hired away by John Romero to join Ion Storm where he created Deus Ex. Right now he is one of the primaries at OtherSide Entertainment and they are working on new underworld and system shock games.

Roberts then produced Strike Commander and he almost bankrupted Origin. (From the Wiki - The Strike Commander project took more than four years and over a million man hours on background development. Very little of that production time turned out to be actually usable in the final product, as at least one and possibly several complete project "reboots" were required to refine the graphical engine to a playable state.)

He has no idea how to control a budget. Pretty much every WC game after the first couple headed by Spector where extremely over budget... one story that came form Orgins owners about WC IV(a story Roberts has scrubbed form the net) was that it shipped when the owners said ship it today or tomorrow everyones pay cheque bounces.

After Origin he founded Digital Anvil. At DA he spent his time making the WC movie... and I think we all know how that went. During that time he HIRED Warthog to produce Starlancer. StarLancer was an ok game and Roberts ensured he had a credit on the game but he had almost nothing to do with its development. After the movie flopped he started pulling in investment bucks to make Freelancer. He wasted years and millions... MS was looking to build a gaming studio empire and Roberts sucked them into buying DA. After the sale Roberts left... MS sold off the other games DA had started to Ubisoft and had to spend another 2 years finishing Freelancer. MS believed the game was months away from shipping and learned different when the sale went through. (which is likely why Roberts hasn't been able to sell Cloud Imp)

After that Roberts founded one movie studio that failed with no projects. Then he founded Ascendant Pictures... which did produce a few half way decent movies. The problem is they got a reputation for going over budget on every project they started and where constantly chasing investors. (he learned the tax / currency exchange games at this point no doubt) Ascendant Pictures fell apart after multiple investors pulled out and Roberts was stringing Kevin Costner along to make his next picture. That ended in Costner winning a 8+ million judgment against them... and it was pretty much the end of Ascendant they sold off what was left.

A year later... he is begging for money to make the game of his dreams. With the promise that he had investors lined up... and that once he proved he could move the project forward with Crowd Funding proving the market for the game they would jump in and fund the rest of the game. (pretty much the same line of BS he fed Costner... which cost him 8 mil a few years before).

This is a nice history lesson. I didn't know all of that myself so I can't speak to how factual the post is, but some of those facts line up with what I already knew. Again, Squadron 42 being vaporware speaks volumes towards verifying the above information. If he "delivered" Wing Commander to us back in the 1990's, then Squadron 42 should be a snap with over 160 million dollars in crowd funding behind it.

If Star Citizen backers are so confused over why the game gets ripped on every time a Star Citizen article is published, maybe they should be hounding the devs to....I don't know....follow their own release dates they themselves publish?

You don't need to back a game to rip on it. Star Citizen is far too easy to criticize, and it's Roberts own damn fault.

I agree completely.

 

[Vaulter98c]

Except the only people "upset" are the people who aren't fans and aren't bought in

You act like this is the first game or piece of software to have feature creep and maybe not come out. Feature Creep. Why is that a term we use? Because it has happened before.

Who cares if it falls through, if you watch weekly there is already a SHIT LOAD of content that is out there for this game. Even if they closed shop in 30 days and just released what was out it still would have been a meh purchase, but it would have provided people plenty for their $40-$45 buy in, and is far from the worst thing that people have paid that much money on.

I love how the trolls come out in force and foam at the mouth about this and how stupid the fans are when the fans are just like.. OK, well, good for you

If you don't have skin in the game what say do you have at all? Or why do you care what happens to money other people volunteered to this project? It's not like Bernie where someone stole you're entire retirement and life savings, this project has delivered some things already and people are losing pennies compared to the Bernie incident. Hell, you're probably out more on fast food in 2 months then you are on this game if it fails so I doubt anyone would really be that butt hurt if it did fail. Plus they are putting out stuff weekly. What the hell kind of scam would revolve around this much effort to not get rich and run away with the money? If it was a true scam don't you think there wouldn't be offices around the world and weekly updates? Nah, there would be some flashy art for a few months then they would run away laughing. Big part of being a scam is actually getting out with money, not spending it all

 

[Vaulter98c]

If anything I will say it's poor management over being a scam, but leave it to the blow hards to yell scam as loud as they can

 

[Armenius]

ROFL... All the Haterade drinkers really crack me up. Let's see who is gonna be right, may be a while, but I'm patient. Sorry but if peeps believe in this project, let them believe. Why such anger against something you really don't understand, want to understand or care about... Oh ya, that's right, it's one of those bad traits you humans still possess. You will get over it in a few hundred more years if you survive and don't kill yourselves.

I'll happily buy Star Citizen when it's finally released and if there is a complete game there where I don't have to worry about falling out of my ship if I make the mistake of standing up while the ship is in motion. Until that time, myself and everyone else whether they backed the game or not are free to call it like we see it. The difference is those of us without a stake in the game have no bias and are able to see what a mess Roberts has made out of every project he's touched since he entered the business, and so have a good amount of relevant skepticism as this project drags along.

 

[Krazy925]

Except the only people "upset" are the people who aren't fans and aren't bought in

You act like this is the first game or piece of software to have feature creep and maybe not come out. Feature Creep. Why is that a term we use? Because it has happened before.

Who cares if it falls through, if you watch weekly there is already a SHIT LOAD of content that is out there for this game. Even if they closed shop in 30 days and just released what was out it still would have been a meh purchase, but it would have provided people plenty for their $40-$45 buy in, and is far from the worst thing that people have paid that much money on.

I love how the trolls come out in force and foam at the mouth about this and how stupid the fans are when the fans are just like.. OK, well, good for you

If you don't have skin in the game what say do you have at all? Or why do you care what happens to money other people volunteered to this project? It's not like Bernie where someone stole you're entire retirement and life savings, this project has delivered some things already and people are losing pennies compared to the Bernie incident. Hell, you're probably out more on fast food in 2 months then you are on this game if it fails so I doubt anyone would really be that butt hurt if it did fail. Plus they are putting out stuff weekly. What the hell kind of scam would revolve around this much effort to not get rich and run away with the money? If it was a true scam don't you think there wouldn't be offices around the world and weekly updates? Nah, there would be some flashy art for a few months then they would run away laughing. Big part of being a scam is actually getting out with money, not spending it all

The only people upset aren't fans or backers? How far is your head buried in the sand? People questioning the health of a product means they do actually want to see the product get made, otherwise they wouldn't follow it. CIG is one of the only companies where people get up in arms when you question there judgment. It's hilarious.

The only one foaming at the mouth here is you, friend. Flashy artwork proves work on the game, seriously?

Member when he lied about his wife working for them? That said either this needs to be released or I want a real X-Wing or tie fighter remake.

 

[Dan_D]

If anything I will say it's poor management over being a scam, but leave it to the blow hards to yell scam as loud as they can

That could be, but there are a lot of red flags that could indicate "scam" as well. I can see why people are concerned about that.

 

[Vaulter98c]

But by that logic wouldn't those who bought in be bitching more if it was really that bad? I find it hard to believe millions of people are frothing idiots trying to justify $40 they spent, maybe just maybe they are trying to point out simple logic? Or maybe they are (shocking idea coming in) actually just content with what's already out?

We're on a forum where people routinely buy $500 plus video cards every year or two, build multiple thousand dollar PC's and custom water loops to drop a few degrees or OC .1 Ghz faster and you think that people who paid $40 are trying to justify that cost for 5 years straight? We watch videos of a man shooting a rifle that can MSRP for like 6 to 8 THOUSAND dollars into a stack of HDD's that all cost more than that just to see how far the bullet (which you couldn't even get 10 bullets for the price) goes and you honestly think every response is only a biased attempt to justify a $40 purchase?

I'm sure there is like one guy out there that dropped like 6 grand for an Idris and sure he may try to justify his stupidity (especially since one guy can't even run that ship on his own lol) but for the most part maybe it's people just trying to say who the fuck cares? Let time go on and see what happens.

 

[Dan_D]

But by that logic wouldn't those who bought in be bitching more if it was really that bad? I find it hard to believe millions of people are frothing idiots trying to justify $40 they spent, maybe just maybe they are trying to point out simple logic? Or maybe they are (shocking idea coming in) actually just content with what's already out?

We're on a forum where people routinely buy $500 plus video cards every year or two, build multiple thousand dollar PC's and custom water loops to drop a few degrees or OC .1 Ghz faster and you think that people who paid $40 are trying to justify that cost for 5 years straight? We watch videos of a man shooting a rifle that can MSRP for like 6 to 8 THOUSAND dollars into a stack of HDD's that all cost more than that just to see how far the bullet (which you couldn't even get 10 bullets for the price) goes and you honestly think every response is only a biased attempt to justify a $40 purchase?

I'm sure there is like one guy out there that dropped like 6 grand for an Idris and sure he may try to justify his stupidity (especially since one guy can't even run that ship on his own lol) but for the most part maybe it's people just trying to say who the fuck cares? Let time go on and see what happens.

Now hold on, you need to get your facts straight. The Armalite AR-50's MSRP is around $3,000. It isn't 6 to 8 thousand dollars. Your thinking of the Barrett M82/M107.

I do think there are lots of people who are still hopeful, or want to justify their purchases. It's a more common behavior than you might think. In any case, there are lots of suckers who will believe CIG's PR machine. Just as hedge fund brokers and investment bankers running Ponzi schemes still often have money coming in right up until their arrest.

 

[Vaulter98c]

The only people upset aren't fans or backers? How far is your head buried in the sand? People questioning the health of a product means they do actually want to see the product get made, otherwise they wouldn't follow it. CIG is one of the only companies where people get up in arms when you question there judgment. It's hilarious.

The only one foaming at the mouth here is you, friend. Flashy artwork proves work on the game, seriously?

Member when he lied about his wife working for them? That said either this needs to be released or I want a real X-Wing or tie fighter remake.

Show me where I'm "foaming and raving" and I'll agree

And the flashy artwork was what it would be if it was just a scam. Release a bit of flashy artwork and cool marketing tips than disappear with all the money you raised. That's a scam. Building studios all over the world and employing people to do work and releasing weekly updates, that's not a scam. Like I said before, that's probably poor management (but I guess that is only fully confirmed if or when the final product comes out and if it's good or not) or maybe too much ambition with no real world groundings but that's not a scam. A scam is supposed to get you rich easily and quickly and on your way to the next thing. You can't have a scam where you raise 160 million dollars and then also spend it, and you don't even have any actual equity to show for it. Maybe if he spent it all on houses or cars or something, but if this fails all the money went into software that's not finished. You're not getting away with anything of value in that sense, so I still don't see how this is a scam.

Look at me, foaming at the mouth over here.... o wait

 

[Krazy925]

Show me where I'm "foaming and raving" and I'll agree

And the flashy artwork was what it would be if it was just a scam. Release a bit of flashy artwork and cool marketing tips than disappear with all the money you raised. That's a scam. Building studios all over the world and employing people to do work and releasing weekly updates, that's not a scam. Like I said before, that's probably poor management (but I guess that is only fully confirmed if or when the final product comes out and if it's good or not) or maybe too much ambition with no real world groundings but that's not a scam. A scam is supposed to get you rich easily and quickly and on your way to the next thing. You can't have a scam where you raise 160 million dollars and then also spend it, and you don't even have any actual equity to show for it. Maybe if he spent it all on houses or cars or something, but if this fails all the money went into software that's not finished. You're not getting away with anything of value in that sense, so I still don't see how this is a scam.

Look at me, foaming at the mouth over here.... o wait

I quoted it. It was a literal wall of foaming.

 

[Vaulter98c]

Now hold on, you need to get your facts straight. The Armalite AR-50's MSRP is around $3,000. It isn't 6 to 8 thousand dollars. Your thinking of the Barrett M82/M107.

I do think there are lots of people who are still hopeful, or want to justify their purchases. It's a more common behavior than you might think. In any case, there are lots of suckers who will believe CIG's PR machine. Just as hedge fund brokers and investment bankers running Ponzi schemes still often have money coming in right up until their arrest.

I could of swore he had a barret, regardless, we've all seen those videos with the barrets, but even if I remembered the wrong weapon the point is the same, the scale is way off on the reply I think. To me this is no different than any other product stuck with poor direction, or virtually any crowd funded device, it's a calculated gamble.

Now if we're looking for what I think a scam is, that would be the smach Z. I almost bought into that one too, kind of glad I didn't. Raised a ton of money, made a flashy video, even demoed a crappy low spec prototype at a games conference, made a nice website (which is almost 100% broken now lol) and then pushed out the delivery dates and no one has gotten a reply on their crowd funding page or the social media pages. Make the money and get out and run, and cut all ties with the world. SC is keeping ties with the customers, doing all this stuff, and the money influx has slowed down, any good scam would get out when the money pool starts to dry up

 

[Dan_D]

I'm a gun guy, I couldn't help it.

 

[Vaulter98c]

I'm a gun guy, I couldn't help it.

Me too, no apology needed there, I just haven't watched the [H]TV in a while so I couldn't remember exactly what he had, not like there are that many options once you get up to that chamber so I figured it was a safe bet off my memory

I'm just pissed how every time someone tries to point out something the default reply is ha ha fanboy, you got scammed and are trying to justify your money ha ha noobz. Like seriously, it might very well be a failed project when all the dust settles but there is already a pretty bad ass dog fight sim in there so meh, worth

But I already know the trolls are going to accuse this as more "foaming" (seriously, go to a BLM rally or a feminist movement rally and then tell me this is "foaming") so whatever

Shit, I'd almost buy someone else into the game just so they could see the scope and scale of what's already there and maybe they'd understand then

 

[Lizard Testes]

Yet some people think they should have had this game finished and wrapped up in like 2 years magically somehow.

Some people, like Chris RObberts saying SQ42 was going to be out in 2014 2015 2016 fuck, whenever.

 

[Lizard Testes]

His history is greatly exaggerated. He can't claim much at all in truth. He is a terrible producer, he is a poor coder... and you can read stories from people like spector about him seeing true revolutionary stuff at origin and just not getting it.

(snip)

Excellent post.

 

[Dan_D]

Some people, like Chris RObberts saying SQ42 was going to be out in 2014 2015 2016 fuck, whenever.

Squadron 42's delays could simply be a matter of gross incompetence, negligence or mismanagement by the people in charge. That list has Chris Roberts at the top of it. Whether or not the people at CIG are all fucking idiots, or we are all being scammed is something we won't know until the dust settles. Regardless, Squadron 42 and the concept behind a squadron based, single player / multiplayer combat game is a relatively straight forward and should be a simple game to deliver compared to the broader Star Citizen concept. The estimated budget for such a project has long since passed and it's hard to imagine the developers not wanting to get that out the door to bring in legitimate revenue which would aid in developing the other modules and persistent universe.

 

[lcpiper]

ROFL... All the Haterade drinkers really crack me up. Let's see who is gonna be right, may be a while, but I'm patient. Sorry but if peeps believe in this project, let them believe. Why such anger against something you really don't understand, want to understand or care about... Oh ya, that's right, it's one of those bad traits you humans still possess. You will get over it in a few hundred more years if you survive and don't kill yourselves.

My God !

Someone taught a parrot to type

 

[Pringle]

Some people, like Chris RObberts saying SQ42 was going to be out in 2014 2015 2016 fuck, whenever.

Yet another reason why people find it so easy to pick this shit apart.

Seriously, why do backers still need to ask why non-backers rip this terrible experiment?

 

[ChadD]

Except the only people "upset" are the people who aren't fans and aren't bought in

I fully admit to not having bought into SC. I did however buy every WC game... I bought Starlancer. I bought Freelancer.

I also bought a lot of Spector games after and realized most of what I loved about the WC games clearly game from him. Roberts may have had the initial idea for WC... which isn't exactly complicated. Fighter planes in space. Spector is clearly the producer that drove all the game play, the choices, the story telling ect... because you can see that in his later Ultima / System Shock / Thief... and for sure DeusEx games. Different setting same game play feel he was the guy who made the WC games what they where.

What drives me nuts about the entire thing.... is thinking what a producer like Spector would have done with 160 million. I didn't give Roberts any money cause I knew from day one it was going to be a freelancer situation. I always believed he was going to build himself a studio with free money and sell out a few years in. A 160 million dollar business loan, that isn't really a loan at all... a 160 million dollar donation to start a gaming company. Great deal for Roberts, would have been even greater if he had found a proper sucker to buy Cloud Imp a few years back.

 

[0neTwo]

Large company makes smart financial move to save money.

"LOL the game is a scam now for sure! Spend your money the way I want you to spend your money or im gonna get mad on the internet!"

 

[Pringle]

Large company makes smart financial move to save money.

"LOL the game is a scam now for sure! Spend your money the way I want you to spend your money or im gonna get mad on the internet!"

I heard 3.0 is releasing late July...o wait....that's Squadron 42 circa 2016...o wait...

 

[Bowman15]

Large company makes smart financial move to save money.

"LOL the game is a scam now for sure! Spend your money the way I want you to spend your money or im gonna get mad on the internet!"

Wow...somebody hasn't been paying attention.