Clean power?

L

Loaded Glove

Weaksauce
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
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The placement of this thread in this section is reasonable I hope, apologies if not. I just figure people who care about quality audio and video playback, would definitely be knowledgeable about this. How are you connecting your equipment to your AC? Straight into the wall, simple power strip, strip with some noise cleanup and maybe some kind of line conditioning? Is a UPS a must have for any serious home theater or higher end PC user? Looked into cyber power ups's and the whole pure sine aspect. Looked at various strips and line conditioners and at the end of the day, it just leaves me with more questions. lol

Really interested to see what you guys do so I can learn and hopefully set my stuff up better and more legit!

Thanks for any replies.
 
You are in a very DANGEROUS place since it appears you want to rationalize a decision (e.g. by stuff for "clean power") due to the well done advertisements on these sites.. Unless you are dealing with "vintage equipment" or live in area with a really sihtty grid (e.g. multiple black/rown outs per week), you really don't need much other than a good surge suppressor. The only time I recommend a UPS is for people with a projector...but even then, the chance of losing power during a movie is pretty small in of itself and an occasional "hard power off" doesn't take much life out of the bulb//lamp. I have over 5 grand in AV equipment and just have a nice suppressor....but i'm also an electrical engineer so while I really want a widget to be justified because it gives me an excuse to buy something geeky..there are other places to put my $$$
 
Actually my reason is that I live in an apartment, an old building that I figure must have pretty old wiring. I have run multiple PCs in this apartment, all with different configs of hardware and software. They all have the same audio issues though so I concluded that unless my luck is just extremely terrible and they are all faulting in the hardware somewhere that is causing very similar/nearly identical issues, it must be something external causing it. Power was the first thing that came to mind.

Can you suggest a good supressor then, one that at least has some noise filtering or line conditioning maybe.
 
I have lots of gear here at home, and since I run an audio mastering setup I can hear discrete RF/EMI seep in with my unbalanced gear (like a phono preamp, reel to reel, etc)... I had originally used two Furman power conditioners for conditioning/surge purposes (one for analog gear, one for digital audio workstation stuff), but in the new house these didn't solve the problem.

I've since moved to the Tripp-Lite Isobars used in hospitals (https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-I...=1471544436&sr=8-1&keywords=tripp+lite+isobar) and they've worked wonders. No big spending needed, plus they make black ones like this if you care what it looks like w/ other gear (black 'entertainment' ones)
 
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OP, let's be sure that I understand your situation.
  1. You've had consistent audio problems across a range of hardware & software.
  2. You wish for advice to resolve these issues.
  3. You have not described that actual problems/symptoms.
What kind of advice do you expect here?
 
If you are experiencing poor audio in an apartment then the problem may exist with EMI. Or you could just have poor acoustics in your room(s).
 
Audio gear runs on DC, filtering the AC line doesn't really do much. You're better off reworking the regulation circuits in your audio hardware. But! This is of course dangerous as you are dealing with high voltage.
 
windianrecords said:
I have lots of gear here at home, and since I run an audio mastering setup I can hear discrete RF/EMI seep in with my unbalanced gear (like a phono preamp, reel to reel, etc)... I had originally used two Furman power conditioners for conditioning/surge purposes (one for analog gear, one for digital audio workstation stuff), but in the new house these didn't solve the problem.

I've since moved to the Tripp-Lite Isobars used in hospitals (https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-I...=1471544436&sr=8-1&keywords=tripp+lite+isobar) and they've worked wonders. No big spending needed, plus they make black ones like this if you care what it looks like w/ other gear (black 'entertainment' ones)
Click to expand...

I decided those looked good so I got 2 of em and what do you know, my shitty luck strikes again. They look like great units and I'm sure they work great, but both the ones I ordered on Amazon make a very faint buzzing noise when just about anything is plugged into them and running. I'm actually not sure if this is normal, a product defect or an issue with the wiring in my house. I'm more convinced than ever the problem must be with the electrical in my apartment so I have to see if the owner will cover the cost of having an electrician come out. lol
 
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Loaded Glove said:
I decided those looked good so I got 2 of em and what do you know, my shitty luck strikes again. They look like great units and I'm sure they work great, but both the ones I ordered on Amazon make a very faint buzzing noise when just about anything is plugged into them and running. I'm actually not sure if this is normal, a product defect or an issue with the wiring in my house. I'm more convinced than ever the problem must be with the electrical in my apartment so I have to see if the owner will cover the cost of having an electrician come out. lol
Click to expand...

Wow... I have three models in two different rooms, let me see if I can hear anything when I put my ears up to them. My one room is with a bunch of audio mastering gear and I regularly have silence in there, I feel like I would have heard it as I could hear a humming TP-LINK switchmode PSU.

Each plug has its own small isolation transformer (hence the term IsoBar), I won't pretend I know too much about what that could mean, but maybe the fact that they are humming can help someone else with your mystery...
 
Yeah it's super faint and I have to put my ear right up to it, but it does get louder if I plug more stuff in and there is more total wattage being pulled from the wall. I suppose it could be harmless, but being as OCD as I am and as paranoid as I am since I feel like my luck with any hardware is pretty bad, I feel like it's something I shouldn't ignore. Ugh it's so frustrating. My luck with hardware is literally the worst I've ever seen. :(
 
Has it been an issue since you moved in? recently?
Have you tried testing the outlet voltage to see if it's within spec? I don't want you to spend more than you have to but a Kill a watt meter would be a good safe way to test voltage and it can give you a few other readings.

The meter is $20-30 depending where you get it from. I've found it useful when testing if my current psu would handle a new gpu or it can be interesting to see that that device is drawing.

AT OWN RISK, AT OWN RISK
Otherwise, if you are comfortable with it, you can use a multi-meter on the correct settings. If you aren't sure, DO NOT DO THIS and get the Kill a watt.

We use these at work and I just stuck my ear to the one with my desk setup plugged into it.
Laptop and 3 monitors.

I can hear a hum if i stick my ear up close but otherwise is unnoticed. This is also an office environment. Depending on the equipment, I would do what others have recommended. Either rma through amazon if still an option or contact the manufacturer for their input.


Looking on amazons sale page- https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Isobar-Protector-ISOBAR6ULTRA/dp/B0000513US, it is likely the Isolated Filter Bank. the reason it gets louder, again like others have said is another filter bank is running.

I personally probably wouldn't worry about it but depending on the equipment you have plugged in, better safe than sorry.
 
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You never said what your audio issue is?

If it's a 60Hz buzz make sure no power wires are next to your audio wires.
 
Dayaks said:
You never said what your audio issue is?

If it's a 60Hz buzz make sure no power wires are next to your audio wires.
Click to expand...


Correct. It hasn't been clarified yet. The only thing close to "an issue" is

Loaded Glove said:
Actually my reason is that I live in an apartment, an old building that I figure must have pretty old wiring. I have run multiple PCs in this apartment, all with different configs of hardware and software. They all have the same audio issues though so I concluded that unless my luck is just extremely terrible and they are all faulting in the hardware somewhere that is causing very similar/nearly identical issues, it must be something external causing it. Power was the first thing that came to mind.

Can you suggest a good supressor then, one that at least has some noise filtering or line conditioning maybe.
Click to expand...
 
Tripp Lite is awesome and are sending out replacements without even requiring me to send these in!

For those asking what my "issue" is, I didn't mention it because I tried to figure it out in another thread and was coming up empty so decided to explore other things, namely my ac power.
Just to clarify for those curious though, it's that on multiple PC's plugged in at my apartment, all with different specs and even different OS's, I have very common audio issues like popping, clicking and lag sometimes. I tried troubleshooting everything from DPC latency to my speaker and headphones possibly failing and just couldn't seem to find any answers. Since the only thing all these issues had in common across the various PC's is that they're all within my apartment and all have been plugged into outlets in my home, I figured it's likely to be some kind of electrical issue.
 
I Live in middle of nowhere with voltage swings that are visible in incandescent lighting (20-30% changes or worse..). Whole rig runs off a 1500VA UPS and if not the dual PSUs seem to help with stability (more filtering) in case I can't.

Do you get Hiss or buzz out of the amp? particularly in the tweeters this is often more related to the amp than not, I did back to back tests off UPS/Surge protector only and really didn't find much or any noticeable reduction in noise on UPS, even with crappy power. most of that noise is from the amp circuitry itself and only at max volume, otherwise I don't hear it.
 
I tend to have pretty bad luck with hardware and while seemingly unlikely, I suppose it is possible that I just so happened to have 3 separate machines' built in sound cards have defects/faults/flaws. I'm kinda at my wits end, but as with just about any PC problem I've had over the years, I'll get to the bottom of it eventually.

To clarify, the issue is very specifically clicking and popping noises that occur pretty randomly and I cannot "make" it happen, that is to say, I cannot consistently reproduce any particular scenario that will always exhibit this. The sound lag or "robot lag" as i like to call it for lack of a better way to explain or call it, usually happens when I open web pages and some audio is playing at the same time. Like I could be streaming a vid on youtube or even playing a video off my drive and if I open a new web page while watching, the sound will lag and kinda stutter in a very digitized sounding way for a half a second or so. I suppose those could be entirely separate issues, but I'm not sure.
 
I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with your power. However, stuff like that usually caused by interruptions in the data stream used to generate sound. Built-in sound cards almost always use the CPU to do some of their heavy lifting, so anything that causes the CPU to not be able to consistently process sound data will generate audible distortions as the sound buffer runs dry.



(Pops and clicks can also be caused by things like AC's or refrigerators cycling. You'll need to isolate your speakers' power supplies to prevent that.)
 
ryan_975 said:
You'll need to isolate your speakers' power supplies to prevent that.)
Click to expand...

It happens with headphones too though and they're just plugged directly into the rear i/o via a 3.5 jack.

My cpu is powerful so I'm not sure how it could possibly be getting bogged down. It's a stock speed i7 6700k that is very well cooled and runs at 60c at most while doing just about anything other than prime95. The onboard sound chip runs on pcie lanes right? Could it be an irq issue perhaps? I must admit I have very little knowledge of that, but I know the very most basic aspects of it.
 
I too have often experienced PC audio hell. I even posted a check list here a few times. Tell me if you need it but I'll tell you right now - it's vast.

A sine-wave UPS is probably not the thing you're looking for in this context. Sine wave UPS units usually supply smooth power only when operating on battery power.
What you are thinking of (I guess) is an on-line UPS. It is a device that takes in mains AC and performs an AC->DC->AC conversion completely remodelling your power.
The catch is: they consume a bit more power than you'd normally do, and the whole chain (the source, receiver/amplification, speakers) would need to be on it, and that's quite a bit of watts.
Watts in an on-line UPS are expensive.

First of all, you mentioned that pops, stutters and clicks are your problem.
To clarify:
- are there no other symptoms besides clicks and pops and digital stuttering? Are you _sure_ there is no constant noise like a hum, screeching, whining, white noise or rhytmical chirping?
- how are you playing the audio - locally (CD, mp3, youtube) or is it a network stream from some other device on the network?
- put your headphones on and use your computer normally, but don't play any music and disable sounds. Multitask like you normally would. Can you still hear anything besides total silence?
- do you experience shutdowns, reboots or bluescreens on any of your computers? If your power was so bad that it interfered with processing audio by your CPU, then your computer would be seriously unstable.

So far it sounds like you have two different problems - the digital stuttering (lagging) being one, which could be caused by: a bad soundcard driver, malware, bad network driver, bad flash version, third party audio processing software like a media player plugin.
The random pops and clicks are typically not limited to PCs. Usual suspects are: other devices nearby, such as: refrigerators and AC (like ryan said), and also: motors, fluorescent lights, power conditioners and other fancy AC filters, corona discharge from nearby high voltage (HIGH voltage, kilovolts), power hungry big laser printers, electrical arcing somewhere in a poorly installed power socket, light fixture or switch.
 
When people say "bad drivers", it always makes me scratch my head. What does that mean exactly? I always install the latest drivers, the same drivers every other person with the same hardware would be running, the drivers directly from the chip makers web site. I can only assume you either mean a corrupt install, necessitating a reinstall or drivers that just so happen to be buggy on my system, necessitating an old version of the driver?

The popping and clicking can occur so randomly and in so many random scenarios that I'd say there don't seem to be any external variables. Every PC I've experienced this on is otherwise completely stable and with the exception of 1, a laptop, I stability tested all of them with the usual programs.

I'd definitely appreciate a link to your checklist as I'm sure it would be of great value to me. If it's vast, that's just fine and even better for that reason since thorough is what I think I'll be needing in this case.

Thanks so much to everyone that has replied so far!
 
Loaded Glove said:
When people say "bad drivers", it always makes me scratch my head. What does that mean exactly? I always install the latest drivers, the same drivers every other person with the same hardware would be running, the drivers directly from the chip makers web site. I can only assume you either mean a corrupt install, necessitating a reinstall or drivers that just so happen to be buggy on my system, necessitating an old version of the driver?

The popping and clicking can occur so randomly and in so many random scenarios that I'd say there don't seem to be any external variables. Every PC I've experienced this on is otherwise completely stable and with the exception of 1, a laptop, I stability tested all of them with the usual programs.

I'd definitely appreciate a link to your checklist as I'm sure it would be of great value to me. If it's vast, that's just fine and even better for that reason since thorough is what I think I'll be needing in this case.

Thanks so much to everyone that has replied so far!
Click to expand...

Yeah, bad drivers as in buggy on a particular system and especially on a particular version of the underlying operating system. It clears up after you either get patches for your Windows, or more recent drivers for your motherboard and other devices.

Drivers also back hardware features like power saving modes. So, if you went into the CMOS setup and disabled C1E, speedstep and the like then would've ruled out a potential culprit.

What's wrong with the laptop? Even something like a faulty charger, while plugged in, could potentially cause anomalies in your home's power supply.

Do you have any other source available, like a CD player?

I would start by trying to get a grasp of whether the stutter/lag problem is somehow similar to the pops and cracks. If you have pops and cracks on all machines, it'd be an electrical problem.

It would be difficult to pinpoint the problem with a checklist because we don't know if it's a problem with one of the computers or with a device somewhere else.
I can provide a shotgun approach, but be sure to keep a list of what you changed in case you want to reverse it. I would try everything at once.
- disable power saving features in your computers, such as C1E, Speedstep, hard drive sleeping
- check your topology - is your whole audio chain (PC, monitor, amp, speakers) powered from the same outlet by something like a power strip? Have you tried another outlet and another power strip?,
- lose your overclocks on all machines,
- disconnect front panel audio ports on all machines,
- mute all input devices (microphones, line ins) on all soundcards on all computers, disconnect any microphones.
- run crystaldiskinfo (or another tool to check hard drives) on all computers- this can unveil a potential stuttering cause,
- go full on tree-hugger and unplug all unused devices you have at home,
- does the Tripplite indicate a grounding fault? do you have any other power strip that can do this? there should be a LED with a 'earth ground' symbol next to it,
- I would seriously consider getting a quote on that electrician,
- any fluorescent lights at home? turn them off for a few days ,
- do you have any water pumps? electric motors like in a coffee maker? high power draw devices like air-conditioning?
- can you use the optical/electric digital output on your source and connect directly to an amp?

That's the first couple of steps :D
 
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