Chris Taylor also blames piracy for low PC game sales, justifies switch to consoles

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Roufuss

Gawd
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Wow, starting to notice a trend here -

IGN: There are a lot of RTS games being brought over to the console this year. Do you ever see the RTS being as big on the console as it is now on the PC?

Chris Taylor: Well one of the key things that is really affecting the economics and the success of gaming in general is piracy on the PC. So one of the reasons we'll see RTSs on the console is because people can't pirate it. That's why we're going to see a lot more of everything on the console. When you look at the sales of really hardcore games like Crysis and you think, "Wow, those games should have sold a lot more," you realize that's probably due in large part to piracy. And you realize that a game like Crysis would have done its true numbers if it had launched on console first.

It's just a good business decision to have your game of any kind on a console where you can't pirate it. When you start to refine the control system and you start to take away the barrier of the control system and you start to make that a non-issue, just like we did with first-person shooters, and it becomes more about the game experience and less about the interface, you start to go to the platform where the economics of where the gaming base is.

IGN: Recently there have been many attempts to bring the RTS genre over to the console. Do you think what people learn from that will affect how the PC RTS is made in the future?

Chris Taylor: Well, yeah, because if there's success on the console, people are going to stop making them on the PC because of my earlier point, what's happened on the PC with piracy. The economics are ugly right now on the PC. You're not going to see these gigantic, epic investments of dollars on the PC when it just doesn't work. The economics have to work. You're going to see those investments made on the console side and it's going to become a more console-centric investment. And then you're going to see them ported back over to the PC and that creates a different experience on the PC.

That's just wild, that's just some talking. That's not really any deep thinking on my part. That's kind of like wild speculation, but if I were to guess I don't see RTS games going away at all. People love them too much. They're too much fun. They're like first-person shooters. First-person shooters are obviously doing extraordinarily well on the console and they're not doing very well on the PC. I'm offering now a parallel to that for RTS games.

Right now, if you're a big shooter developer, you're going to lead on a console and you're going to do a PC SKU after. You're not going to be your projections and thinking about your market as your PC. You're going to be thinking about your market on the console. So you're going to focus all of your creativity around your control scheme of your console, your audience of your console, the age group that you're going after on your console and what features they want. You're going to cater to that audience…It's going to be market driven.

Right now it's up in the air, but right now the PC market is kind of voting with its dollars, if you will.
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I'm a huge Chris Taylor fan, and it's sad to see that his future also lies in the console now, too.

The full interview is up at IGN.

It seems that for as much as people say PC gaming isn't dead, no, it's going to turn into more of an afterthought, a land where we'll get console ports 6 to 12 months after the fact, if at all.

Reading between the lines makes me wonder if he isn't disappointed with Supreme Commander sales, which is unfortunate as the game was excellent. But still, first Infinity Ward, then Epic, now Chris Taylor? All of PC's good game developers seem to be jumping ship.

I really hope this new "PC Gaming Alliance" does something.
 
Stopped reading after his claim people can't pirate console games.

Clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.
 
When you start to refine the control system and you start to take away the barrier of the control system and you start to make that a non-issue, just like we did with first-person shooters
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Uh yeah buddy. Dual analogue is just as good....that's why you need radar and other such nonsense.

Other than that, and the "console prevents piracy" claim, it's hard to argue with the guy. The advent of mass broadband to the home combined with BT have made the economics barely workable. That makes me a sad panda.:(
 
Frosteh said:
Stopped reading after his claim people can't pirate console games.

Clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.
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Of course people can pirate on consoles, they can pirate on anything, but it is much more complicated and much less prevalent, so much so that doesn't impact consoles like it does on PCs. Consoles are much more tightly controlled and constantly updated if you use them online. The cost and complication of mods also means average joe family doesn't pirate console games or is even aware that it's possible. You don't have a sense of perspective.
 
Agreed, who ever believes console piracy is as easy as PC piracy, is a doofus!
 
It's still possible though, it's popularity has room to vastly increase.
 
If companies start doing a lot more console exclusives then piracy will just increase more on consoles. Either way companies aren't really losing money, they just aren't making as much as they would like.
 
Chaoticon said:
If companies start doing a lot more console exclusives then piracy will just increase more on consoles. Either way companies aren't really losing money, they just aren't making as much as they would like.
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Exactly. And they know it. This guy just uses piracy as an excuse, as many others have done in the past.
At this point, with all this retarded behavior, I say "You want to prioritize consoles ? Good riddance! Less crap on the PC".

I just won't support these idiots that blame piracy for everything, but never blame themselves, for the poor job they did with a certain game. You want to make console ports ? Fine by me. Less money I spend. A recent example comes to mind: Oblivion.

Was it a console port ? In many ways, yes.
Was it pirated ? Like hell!
Did it sold millions anyway ? Yes.
But was it a good game on any platform ? Most definitely yes, which makes people buy the game.

If you prioritize console development, the ones that applied their resources to pirate PC games, will shift their interests to consoles and piracy will increase, until pirating a console game is as easy as pirating a PC Game today.
If you're retarded and stupid enough to think this won't happen, then you should seek the help of a guidance counselor, since you are clearly in the wrong area.
 
Silus said:
Exactly. And they know it. This guy just uses piracy as an excuse, as many others have done in the past.
At this point, with all this retarded behavior, I say "You want to prioritize consoles ? Good riddance! Less crap on the PC".

I just won't support these idiots that blame piracy for everything, but never blame themselves, for the poor job they did with a certain game. You want to make console ports ? Fine by me. Less money I spend. A recent example comes to mind: Oblivion.

Was it a console port ? In many ways, yes.
Was it pirated ? Like hell!
Did it sold millions anyway ? Yes.
But was it a good game on any platform ? Most definitely yes, which makes people buy the game.

If you prioritize console development, the ones that applied their resources to pirate PC games, will shift their interests to consoles and piracy will increase, until pirating a console game is as easy as pirating a PC Game today.
If you're retarded and stupid enough to think this won't happen, then you should seek the help of a guidance counselor, since you are clearly in the wrong area.
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Exactly. It's the same excuse used by Mac and Linux users about viruses. They claim their OS is way more secure than Windows, but how many computer users use Windows? like 90%? If Linux was the dominant operating system it would be just as bad is not worse than Windows.

Blaming piracy is the poorest excuse someone could make about not selling their product. If it had quality in the first place, people would buy it. Look at Galactic Civlizations II. It sold like hot cakes due to it's quality and above all because it didn't have ANY kind of copy protection and people like when they are not treated like criminals. Now tell me, how can a game without any protection sell so much when it's so easy to pirate it?
 
TheNuker said:
Exactly. It's the same excuse used by Mac and Linux users about viruses. They claim their OS is way more secure than Windows, but how many computer users use Windows? like 90%? If Linux was the dominant operating system it would be just as bad is not worse than Windows.
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Has anyone else noticed that with the increase in MAC usage recently, suddenly there has also been an increase in the cases of MAC problems? (Viruses, hardware, warranties, data theft, etc).!?

TheNuker said:
Blaming piracy is the poorest excuse someone could make about not selling their product. If it had quality in the first place, people would buy it. Look at Galactic Civlizations II. It sold like hot cakes due to it's quality and above all because it didn't have ANY kind of copy protection and people like when they are not treated like criminals. Now tell me, how can a game without any protection sell so much when it's so easy to pirate it?
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I spent 40 hours on a bus to avoid being treated like a criminal by british airport authorities. I have a serious SERIOUS problem with being treated like a criminal. I refuse to fly into the US and the UK for these reasons. Basic security checks are fine, but being treated like dirt, scum and a terrorist while they go overboard with security, is not.
 
Damn, I feel really bad for downloading SupCom now. But I also just order it + the expansion off Amazon, so that should be okay :p

Odd that CT is now saying this, yet a note from him in the readme says

A Note From Chris Taylor

Supreme Commander was more than a labor of love; it was the completion of a journey we started a long time ago and was a game that we’ve wanted to make for a very long time. To see the game complete is an incredible reward for us, especially because it delivers many of the goals we set for ourselves back in 2003. And now the journey is complete, and we will soon embark on another. From all of us here at GPG and the SupCom team, to all of you, we hope Supreme Commander brings you many hours of entertainment and delivers a new and exciting experience. And most of all, we hope it’s everything you had hoped it would be...we worked very hard to make that happen.

All the best!

Chris Taylor
CEO/Lead Designer
Gas Powered Games
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Roufuss said:
Reading between the lines makes me wonder if he isn't disappointed with Supreme Commander sales, which is unfortunate as the game was excellent. But still, first Infinity Ward, then Epic, now Chris Taylor? All of PC's good game developers seem to be jumping ship.
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Reviews of it at the time did put it as an hardcore RTS. I really enjoyed the previous C&C games and thats about as far as my RTS collection went. Wasn't too sure if I'd find it waay too hard before I spent the cash so downloading was a better option.
Its also not really a mass market game, hardly anyone from out the PC crowd have heard of it.
 
There are some seriously skewed perspectives on both sides of the fence.

Here's a "rant" that some intelligent folks should agree with. As for the rest... eh...

1) I agree that, if devs would start putting a little more effort into actually creating more quality games (for PC, specifically) that they'd see better sales figures.

2) I disagree that it's all that easy to pirate console games, as I've known people to attempt it in the past, and no, it's not that easy. It's not easy by any means to crack a console game and upload it onto the net (w/o getting caught as well) in a format that others can download, burn to a disc and be able to play on their console. Or to crack it and burn it for someone else. The whole process is very difficult, takes a lot of work, different programs and a lot of know-how, and I doubt that those who claim that it's "easy" and that the frequency will "increase" as PC gaming "dies out" have ever attempted it themselves or known anyone who has, hence have no basis for this ridiculous continuing argument.

I, for one, have never attempted it, nor have I ever pirated anything ever, period. But I've known quite a few highly intelligent and very "technically advanced" people in the past who have, and it's neither "easy", nor convenient to do so.

3) I disagree that piracy, while becoming more prevalent around the world, is hurting game sales for the PC to the point that so many seem to be "jumping ship", but has more to do with the fact that devs and publishers believe there is more money in consoles at this point. The whole piracy thing seems to be almost more of a "saving face" tactic, in order to cover up the "sheep mentality" of people following in the footsteps of those they believe are making more money that they themselves might be missing out on.

4) I agree that problems with compatibility with OS's, third-party software etc. is becoming a pain in the ass for devs who have multiple OS's to contend with, namely XP and Vista. I've seen more complaints and problems with Vista then I've ever seen with XP, and I've never had a problem running any game (or any software) on XP, though I know of far too many people who have had issues with a far too many things with Vista. I believe that this is a major issue for devs, especially considering that no one knows where the future of OS's is going, and while Microsoft is pushing away from XP in the near future, that I believe they also realize how much of a pain in the ass Vista has been for a lot of people. Hence, who knows what changes will be made in the future? That's something I feel devs are starting to really consider, I feel, the uncertainly of the future of OS's, where as with consoles, for every generation, they know with what they're contending. As opposed to the continual OS and software compatibility problems in general, updates that change things etc.

5) I agree that the console market is definitely getting bigger, and that perhaps people who frequent enthusiast websites and forums such as these, need to start looking outside the little box they tend to limit their vision to. While most people own some form (laptop or desktop) of a PC these days, the truth be told, there are not nearly the number of people building PC's as are buying and gaming on consoles.

Over the last decade, I most certainly shifted my attention to PC gaming, especially being primarily into FPS, and taught myself how to build gaming rigs, "gut" Windows in order to run better etc. etc. and as many little intricacies of computers as I can continue to learn. However, there are not as many people as it might seem in the world who can or are even able to do such things. That leads to them being unhappy with their gaming experience on PC. That leads to people moving towards consoles.

Many people buy pre-built systems with Vista installed etc. etc. (no, I'm not bashing it, but Vista has indeed been a major problem --thus far-- for far too many people) and have difficulties getting things to run properly. They don't know how, if there's even a way, to fix the issues. Again, another scenario of why PC gaming is indeed declining.

6) Both piracy and the shift to consoles is also growing due to the pain-in-ass anti-piracy measures that most devs/publishers have really begun hammering down with in recent times. No one wants that bullshit invasive garbage software on their systems, and it's caused more fucking problems and headaches then anything. All the DRM/SecuROM bullshit has fucked with more people than can even be mentioned, and is really turning people off to PC gaming.

And yes, piracy IS fucking stealing. I'm sick of that bullshit childish and ignorant argument as well. Someone else created it, named it, packaged it and released it. They own the IP, the technology and the game's content. If they wanted to give it away for free, they would. If they put it up for sale, and have Copyrighted all aspects of the creation, they fucking own it. If you pirate it, you're stealing. Maybe it's just because I'm a rational adult with a family that I see things this way... :rolleyes:... or maybe it's because we live in a world of selfish, deceitful, cheap and far-too-ballsy hairless apes, that so many degenerates don't see piracy as stealing.

Anyway...

I don't believe these methods were implemented so much because devs/publishers were losing quite as much money as they've claimed (though they've definitely lost money), but more as a "prophylactic" and "moral" measure with which to "strike back" at those who do indeed pirate games. I believe some money has definitely been lost due to piracy, as well as the measures they then began implementing, as well as due to the fact that less and less people are willing or able to fork out the kind of cash it takes to build a good gaming rig.

I've built a plethora of gaming rigs over the years, and at minimum, you're talking around $1,200/$1,500 for a decent mid-range gaming rig. I've been through it a million times, and I've gotten some of the best deals around, and for something to run decent, that's really the bottom dollar. Doing this shit is a little more expensive than some people tend to argue. You figure (rough low estimates) around $150-$200 for a decent mobo, $200-$400+ for a decent GPU, $120+ for a decent case, $100+ for decent RAM, $190+ for a decent monitor, $150+ for a decent PSU, plus all the misc shit like coolers, drives etc. etc. you're already up to $1,000+. Again, these are low, low estimates.

The system I'm running cost me around $2,000+ to build, and it's not even the "highest-end" possible, though it is high-end. Not many people can/are willing to fork out that kind of money to build a system, and learn all the intricacies of building such, just to be able to game at such quality. However, anything lower can seriously impair said gaming experience. Again, another strike against PC gaming at this point, especially vs consoles.

With consoles, it's a few hundred bucks for everything you need, and you're set to go. Plus, no software/hardware compatibility issues. No bullshit DRM's fucking with your system. Etc. etc. ad-fucking-nauseum.

I love building and gaming on PC's, absolutely. There are definitely more advantages in terms of visuals and performance. No arguments on that here.

But the bottom line is that, at this point, PC gaming has more going against it than for it at this point. Plain and simple. I don't like it, but hey, reality is reality.

Sure, console games cost more to buy, but you don't have to worry about it working (generally speaking, not considering the 659 red rings of death I've gotten on my X360) right out of the box. Pop it in and go, and that's it. And if you've a nice LCD or plasma TV to go with that, you're all set.

I'm not defending this guy's, or anyone else's, "pounding" on PC games, gamers and the whole piracy issue. But truth be told, it makes sense why so many are pushing hardcore towards consoles now. While there might be some "resurgence" of PC gaming in the future, with as far as consoles have and are coming, truthfully, it's doubtful.

There's already a very noticeable decline in the number of PC games beginning, and even decent ones at that (with a few exceptions), and I wouldn't expect it to get any better.

Personally, with all the bullshit involved with OS's, software, hardware etc. these days, and the cost of keeping up with the high-end gaming I prefer to do on PC, I'm starting to get sick of it all, and almost welcome a push forward in console technology and usability.
 
*laughing*

I love how forum experts are going to know more about the industry then the developers! *laughing* I can't wait till people start flooding in.
 
Of course they are going to make more money on consoles relative to PC's. Consoles are more mainstream and have a far wider audience because they appeal to casual and unsophisticated gamers.

That hardly means sales are less on PC due to piracy. Not to mention the fact that with multiplatform releases, of course the combined sales of the wii, ps3 and xbox 360 version of a game are going to overshadow sales of the PC version.

Quite frankly game developers are too gutless to admit they just want more money. And the whole "its difficult to pirate console games" is a myth...anyone who has been to South East Asia would know this first hand.
 
Piracy is just an excuse. They want to move to consoles because development is easier. No need to dick around with all different kinds of OS's and drivers and hardware ad nasuem. Now the devs can spend even MORE time on shiny graphics and forget gameplay.

SupCom and the expansion made quite a bit of money id gather. I own both.
One thing about PC piracy though, it has allowed alot of consumers to "test drive" a game before buying. I for one will admit that after years of buying games I thought would be awesome (victim of hype) and they ended up sucking (tired of wasting money on shitty games), I now test drive all of them before purchasing. If I like them, I buy them, period. If I dont like them, the "demos" get uninstalled and I move on.
 
I dunno, I know alot of people that game on PC because they CAN PIRATE GAMES easily vs the concern of voiding the warranty on thier delicate 360 by opening it to for mods...of course all of these people modded thier xbox shortly before the end of its lifetime and pirated games for that as well, but even still that was a lot more trouble than downloading an ISO (installing a mod chip on the xbox was a special affair as the 5 or 6 revisions meant different techniques and it just plain might not work). also I think modding an xbox pretty much cripples xbox live functionality which is a major selling point of that console...

I can see the devs/pubs of PC games being a little leary of just how much they are "losing" due to piracy...part of the equation has to be how many of those pirated copies would have been actually purchased had it been un-pirateable? possibly very, very few.
 
Spare-Flair said:
Of course people can pirate on consoles, they can pirate on anything, but it is much more complicated and much less prevalent, so much so that doesn't impact consoles like it does on PCs. Consoles are much more tightly controlled and constantly updated if you use them online. The cost and complication of mods also means average joe family doesn't pirate console games or is even aware that it's possible. You don't have a sense of perspective.
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Agreed. I think Taylor may have misspoken a bit - but his point is still valid. Sure pirating on consoles is possible, but there is a much higher price of entry in terms of the work that needs to be done and the knowledge to do it. While on the PC side it's gotten so easy to download software and games that a monkey could do it - and there's almost no repercussions in doing so.
 
maademperor said:
...part of the equation has to be how many of those pirated copies would have been actually purchased had it been un-pirateable? possibly very, very few.
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I think that's probably easier to say when you're not a game developer that just spent years of your life and millions of dollars making a video game for the public - and then seeing its potential squandered. In all honesty, I'd probably jump ship too.
 
Frosteh said:
Stopped reading after his claim people can't pirate console games.

Clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.
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Cause.... I don't have a mod chipped PS1 sitting unused somewhere in my appartment. Seriously, this is no diffrent than "macs are more virus free than PC" crap argument. And the main reason crysis didn't sell more copies is the very reason I didn't buy it. The reviews said its game play sucked and the hardware people said no matter what you are running its coded poorly so you can't play it on max settings even with a God rig.
 
vengence said:
Cause.... I don't have a mod chipped PS1 sitting unused somewhere in my appartment. Seriously, this is no diffrent than "macs are more virus free than PC" crap argument. And the main reason crysis didn't sell more copies is the very reason I didn't buy it. The reviews said its game play sucked and the hardware people said no matter what you are running its coded poorly so you can't play it on max settings even with a God rig.
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Lies, your just a pirate.
:rolleyes:

:D
 
There's more money to be made on console games now than on a PC.

Period, end of story, that's undesputable fact. Console games cost way more as well so that's more $$$ in games developer's eyes.


The fact that the Sims games outsell Crysis by a hilarious margin doesn't reflect that Crysis was pirated where the Sims games were not, it says both that people didn't have the hardware to play/buy Crysis and that the average Joe hasn't heard of Crysis but has heard of the Sims.


More and more families around the world are 'discovering' their PC as a games platform and the only thing that'll run on it is shit like the Sims games. No wonder they're selling like hot cakes.


But all this DOES NOT mean sales are dropping. I'd bet PC games sales have steadily increased since always. It just means trends are changing.


Valve with their regular surveys know exactly where most people's PC hardware is at and make their games accordingly. Valve are successful as a result. Crytek arogantly push the envelope and have paid the price, literally.
 
As long as home users have access to blank or writable medium(s), then piracy will just continue to spill over. For example, people couldn't copy CDs once upon a time because they didn't have mainstream CD Ripper/Burners, though they could use and play the disc. If they want better protection, they’re going to have to use a proprietary system – which usually receives a lot of criticisms and a lot of time can still be cracked.
 
You can't argue with the fact that, had Crysis been released on the 360 and not the PC, it would have easily done 4 times the numbers, and you sure as hell wouldn't have seen EA become disappointed with the sales.

Yea, you can pirate console games, I'm pretty sure Chris Taylor knows this, he probably just meant it's a lot harder to do so and your average gamer, the type to own a 360, probably dosen't know shit about modding it, knows but doesn't care, or knows but doesn't want to take the chance of bricking the console / being kicked off Live. Or a combination of the three.

Then, when developers try new methods of stopping pirates, the PC gamers freak out and boycott their game or give it a bad rap... what are developers supposed to do? They want to put their game on the PC, they don't want it pirated, the old method of CD Key's don't work, yet any new method is met by huge resistance by the community. For the record, Chris Taylor is very lenient with copy protection, he has released patches for both SupCom and the expansion to remove the CD check, which is a plus, something that most dev's don't do (but should).

You can't have your cake and eat it too, and eventually all the major developers are just going to close shop, move to the console, and we'll be hearing lots of similar quotes from other developers. We really can't say how much potential sales the PC loses to pirates, but it seems now we are losing potential games from it... Chris Taylor has never released a console game AFAIK, so for him to make a claim like the one he has has no basis, since Supreme Commander will be his first console game, so it's not like he's pulling an Epic.

I wonder if the reason why The Sims 2 sells so awesome is that it's targetted fanbase (largely casual gamers) just doesn't know how to pirate it, so they just buy it instead?
 
Crysis didn't sell good because it sucked. Blaming it on piracy is just a panacea.
 
Actually, the only way developers are really going to win at this point, is to embrace a digital download service like Steam, since, AFAIK, it's not really possible to pirate a digitally downloaded game?

Maybe I'm wrong? I'm sure it is, but it's probably pretty difficult, a lot more difficult than copying a CD. I remember when people were buying cheap Taiwan copies of the Orange Box, Valve banned a ton of CD Key's and accounts.
 
Comparing PC piracy to console Piracy is absolutely idiotic. They're in totally different leagues. My console owning friends would struggle to find, download, and pirate a PC game, let alone go through god knows loops to get a console pirate DVD working.

Anyone making that claim is just trying to cover their own PC pirating ass.
 
Monkey God said:
Crysis didn't sell good because it sucked. Blaming it on piracy is just a panacea.
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First of all, I don't think 'panacea' means what you think it means.

Second, I'm forced to remember a very recent comment from a CoD 4 developer (CoD 4 being one of the most awarded releases of 2007 and one which would be hard to argue as sucking) in where he was astonished by the amount of pirated PC versions he was seeing online. I wish he would have actually released some numbers, but the fact remains and the message to that developer in particular was clear.

And of course, CoD 4 is a great title for comparison - seeing as how it was a multi-platform release at launch. The 360 version kicked the shit out of it, and the PC version was pirated to hell.
 
PoweredBySoy said:
First of all, I don't think 'panacea' means what you think it means.

Second, I'm forced to remember a very recent comment from a CoD 4 developer (CoD 4 being one of the most awarded releases of 2007 and one which would be hard to argue as sucking) in where he was astonished by the amount of pirated PC versions he was seeing online. I wish he would have actually released some numbers, but the fact remains and the message to that developer in particular was clear.

And of course, CoD 4 is a great title for comparison - seeing as how it was a multi-platform release at launch. The 360 version kicked the shit out of it, and the PC version was pirated to hell.
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I wish we'd see numbers from all these companies, because I bet the same thing happened to Oblivion, Bioshock, etc... to be honest, I don't even know why Bioware is bothering with Mass Effect for the PC and making changes to it on top of it.
 
Roufuss said:
Actually, the only way developers are really going to win at this point, is to embrace a digital download service like Steam, since, AFAIK, it's not really possible to pirate a digitally downloaded game?.
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I agree. Constantly being logged into a service like Steam so it can continually authenticate your games is probably PC gamings best bet right now.
 
PoweredBySoy said:
I think that's probably easier to say when you're not a game developer that just spent years of your life and millions of dollars making a video game for the public - and then seeing its potential squandered. In all honesty, I'd probably jump ship too.
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and that biased mentatility is what helps the devs justify jumping ship. you spent years working, thinking and tinkering so of course you will think everyone who plays your creation HAS to be happy to throw down a measly $50 bucks...so yeah, I think its easy for me to say cause I can be a little more objective.
 
PoweredBySoy said:
I agree. Constantly being logged into a service like Steam so it can continually authenticate your games is probably PC gamings best bet right now.
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Only problem is that there is *still* a group of gamers out there who are completely against digital downloads so that just equals more lost sales.

Myself, I'd be all for it if Steam simply lowered it's prices, which should have happened already, because there is no middleman anymore. Best Buy / CC constantly have CoD 4 for $40 on a regular basis on sale, there really is no reason it should be a full $50 on Steam.

I think if Steam started putting out new releases for say, $35 or $40, while stores had it for $50, piracy could be more easily controller, however that's a different thread entirely as to why Steam can't do that without pissing off the retail stores.
 
Maybe if the games they make didn't suck *cough* Crysis *cough* we would buy more of them.

They are all variants of each other right now. I am still playing 1602AD.
 
What a sell out. Playing an RTS on a console would be a nightmare. Plus I doubt the vast majority of console owners would have the patience for a worthwhile RTS anyway.

I remember reading that Crysis sold a million copies...
 
Roufuss said:
Myself, I'd be all for it if Steam simply lowered it's prices, which should have happened already, because there is no middleman anymore. Best Buy / CC constantly have CoD 4 for $40 on a regular basis on sale, there really is no reason it should be a full $50 on Steam.

I think if Steam started putting out new releases for say, $35 or $40, while stores had it for $50, piracy could be more easily controller, however that's a different thread entirely as to why Steam can't do that without pissing off the retail stores.
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Steam pricing definitely needs to come down, that's for sure. I know the pricing structure isn't totally in Valve's hands, and at this point they do have to be careful not to piss off the retailers, but many of your examples are totally valid. I've recently had the desire to play Sid's Pirates! game. Looking at the box at Best Buy it's $20, while on Steam it's (a somewhat outrageous) $30 - for a 4 year old PC game. Then they have some Janes' Sub simulator from who-knows-when for like $20.

Yeah, some of the older games' pricing is a little f'd up. But at the same time I understand the reasoning for having to match newer releases to the MSRP...... for now.
 
maademperor said:
and that biased mentatility is what helps the devs justify jumping ship. you spent years working, thinking and tinkering so of course you will think everyone who plays your creation HAS to be happy to throw down a measly $50 bucks...so yeah, I think its easy for me to say cause I can be a little more objective.
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I guess I'm not sure what it is exactly I'm biased towards.

But that really isn't the point I was trying to make. I'm arguing that people pirate these games, enjoy them, and never purchase them in the end.
 
I can't believe how delusional so many PC games are.... seriously, you guys need to get your heads outta your asses....

PC gaming suffers from a 1-2 punch of piracy and high system requirements. End of story. Look at the rig in my sig. Aside from the anemic processor, it is pretty much near parity with what most consumers buy for their computers today. My ancient GeForce 3 can still play with most integrated graphics solutions.... trust me.... I've seen it first hand. 90% of new games that come out I dont have the power to play, so neither does 90% of the general PC owning population.

I grew up in a small town of relatively affluent families. Many of my friends had the disposable income back when we were kids (either from mommy and daddy or from part time jobs) to build gameable computers. I would say that just about nobody, out of a pool of about 20 PC gamers ever bought any game that didn't require a CD key for online multiplayer authentication. Every single single-player game or game that could be pirated and still be played online was pirated. Even here in college in New York... I go to school with people from all over the world. I made quite a few PC gamer friends, and *all* of them pirate their games. I mean.... its just too damn easy to do so.

Anyone that says console games are "easy to pirate" is an idiot. With a console you can't log on, download the ISO, mount in daemon tools, and run crack. You have to do a hell of alot more, and when you consider demographics: once again, those that know about this stuff make up a relatively small amount of the console base, while they make up a huge amount of the PC base. 95% of players that own a console capable of playing games (think about that for a second..) will not be willing to do the necessary steps and risk the trade-offs to pirate a game on a console.......
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
I can't believe how delusional so many PC games are.... seriously, you guys need to get your heads outta your asses....

PC gaming suffers from a 1-2 punch of piracy and high system requirements. End of story. Look at the rig in my sig. Aside from the anemic processor, it is pretty much near parity with what most consumers buy for their computers today. My ancient GeForce 3 can still play with most integrated graphics solutions.... trust me.... I've seen it first hand. 90% of new games that come out I dont have the power to play, so neither does 90% of the general PC owning population.

I grew up in a small town of relatively affluent families. Many of my friends had the disposable income back when we were kids (either from mommy and daddy or from part time jobs) to build gameable computers. I would say that just about nobody, out of a pool of about 20 PC gamers ever bought any game that didn't require a CD key for online multiplayer authentication. Every single single-player game or game that could be pirated and still be played online was pirated. Even here in college in New York... I go to school with people from all over the world. I made quite a few PC gamer friends, and *all* of them pirate their games. I mean.... its just too damn easy to do so.

Anyone that says console games are "easy to pirate" is an idiot. With a console you can't log on, download the ISO, mount in daemon tools, and run crack. You have to do a hell of alot more, and when you consider demographics: once again, those that know about this stuff make up a relatively small amount of the console base, while they make up a huge amount of the PC base. 95% of players that own a console capable of playing games (think about that for a second..) will not be willing to do the necessary steps and risk the trade-offs to pirate a game on a console.......
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Wow.

At least a PC is upgradeable. My retired PC in my sig still uses parts from 1998 and most of the parts aren't any newer than 2004. It plays pretty much everything except Crysis. Of course you can always use your old PSX parts in your PS3 right? Oh wait you can't. And how much do console's cost at release? $300, $400, $500? Thats PC price territory. And why not, you're pretty much just buying a PC, just without all the functionality.

PC gaming is not dying, its doing just fine. Especially when developers from Europe who are unaffected, uninterested or who are more concerned about doing what they visioned, continue to make there games, everything will be fine. The problem is that older developers are getting lazy and greedy. Also there is no marketing group for PC gaming either. IMHO that and that the general population is stupid.
 
PoweredBySoy said:
I guess I'm not sure what it is exactly I'm biased towards.

But that really isn't the point I was trying to make. I'm arguing that people pirate these games, enjoy them, and never purchase them in the end.
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in that case we are both making the same point. I was saying its the devs who have a biased opionion regarding thier own creations, flawed\uninspired\overpriced though they may be to us end users, the creators of course see their product as beyond awesome and worth every cent. So anytime someone pirates a game thier mentality is that if they could not pirate it, they would have bought it. the reality I see is that a lot of pirates are going to get it for free or not at all. anything free is worth enjoying, and paying for it even after realizing it might be worth having just makes it less enjoyable (especially if you are half way through the game but cant pay for just the half you need now :p )

summation: we are on the same page.


also, steam pricing is something I have yet to understand, hence I have never digidownloaded a game...I'd rather drive to the store and get the retail media than encourage their pricing and save that minor hassle (pass a target, walmart and gamestop every day going to work and CC/BB are just a few miles out of the way)...
 
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