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Check out this radiator

M

mbmadness

Gawd
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
803
Reading the description for the Derale Engine Oil Cooler at Summit racing indicates it uses copper tubing and the material is copper. Nice. Summit part number DER-15502.

Link with description:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=DER-15502

Now, pull up the part number for just the radiator without the other stuff. Summit part number DER-15502B.

No description, but the price is shown.
http://store.summitracing.com/search.asp?type=bysummitpart&searchtype=both&part=DER-15502B&x=4&y=7

It's a copper, 1/2 inch tubing, black powder coated, six pass radiator for $32.69. :eek:

Derale's web site.
http://www.derale.com/engineoilcoolers.shtml

http://www.derale.com/img/hdengineoilcooler.jpg

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/der-15502.jpg

I've sent Derale an email asking them to verify that the radiator is made of copper, but no response yet. I've also emailed Summit Racing asking them to verify the radiator is made of copper as well. When I get some answers, I'll let you guys now. Maybe someone would like to order it and verify it for us. ;)
 
You guys do realize that the higher number of passes gets you a higher drop in flow rates that decreases overall cooling performance right? You would be much much much better off going with a heatercore such as THIS ONE which is a single pass heatercore which can hold 2 120mm fans on each side and will probably beat just about any commercial rad, like the Black Ice ones, in temps. Its also cheaper than the one you listed.
 
Originally posted by Animal982
You guys do realize that the higher number of passes gets you a higher drop in flow rates that decreases overall cooling performance right? You would be much much much better off going with a heatercore such as THIS ONE which is a single pass heatercore which can hold 2 120mm fans on each side and will probably beat just about any commercial rad, like the Black Ice ones, in temps. Its also cheaper than the one you listed.
Click to expand...

It'll only be a noticable hurt to flow rates if you have a low GPH pump and bad head length. Being this is a 1/2 ID tube, it's perfect for watercooling as it goes directly into the radiator without being resized (up or down), thus creating less restriction.

If each pass is "1ft" and there is 6 passes. Your system uses 1 foot to get to it, 1 1/2 foot to get out of it, and to the waterblock. Add in an extra half foot for good measure. You get 6 + 1 + 1 1/2 + 1 + 1/2 = 10ft. Well within the Mag3's 315gph @ 11ft head.

So in conclusion, the little bit of a damper it puts on flow rates will be far outwayed by the increased heat dissipation.
 
Check out this link... These are their transmission coolers. They have a "copper core" and come nine sizes. Sweet! I'm not 100% what "copper core" means, but I hope it means that they are made of copper.

http://www.derale.com/transcoolers.shtm

You can find the prices at Summit Racing by doing the following. First go to this link http://www.derale.com/transcoolers.shtml and determine which one you want. Then get the part number listed under "Display Board". Now go to the http://store.summitracing.com/ web site. On the left frame you'll see Enter Summit Part#. Enter DER- and the "Display Board" number you copied from the Derale web page. So, for example, for the smallest one, you would enter DER-13201

http://www.derale.com/img/series7000coolers.jpg

I think these prices are pretty amazing considering that they are made of copper and not aluminum. :cool:

edit: get your own host for images. - mota
 
Yeah that would be all fine and dandy if you actually got 315GPH at 10 foot of head but you dont. Look at the pump curves HERE At 10 feet of head on the danner mag 3 you would be getting under 50 GPH which in turn would raise the c/w of your waterblock. Also heatercores are a lot more efficient at cooling since there is more surface area for air to flow over. If you know how heatercores are made you would see that water flows not through a big section of pipe but through many 'fins' like shown in the picture HERE where as with the transmission coolers linked it just has copper or aluminum fins saudered on the copper pipe.

In conclusion I pose a question. If these transmission coolers were so great to use for PC watercooling why is it do you think that practically everyone uses heatercores?
 
Hayden makes tranny oil coolers just like this, but without the black paint. I had one for my first w/cing setup, and it worked pretty good. I think I only paid $25 for it, and they sell them at almost any local parts store. They are very unrestrictive, due to the round pipes, which means high flow rates. Unfortunately, the tradeoff is reduced surface area compared to flat pipes, like you find in a heatercore. Only other thing I didn't like about it was the fins dent and bend VERY easy, and they're a real pain to mount fans on.

Edit: well speak of the devil, heres a thread on the same page from somebody who has the exact same one I had.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=720665
 
From what Ive seen "Copper Core" most likely means copper tubes with aluminum fins.
 
Originally posted by Animal982
Yeah that would be all fine and dandy if you actually got 315GPH at 10 foot of head but you dont. Look at the pump curves HERE At 10 feet of head on the danner mag 3 you would be getting under 50 GPH which in turn would raise the c/w of your waterblock. <SNIP>
Click to expand...

10 foot head means that it can pump water straight up 10 feet. In a closed loop system, gravity of the water on the opposite side of the loop negates any head pressure you might think you are creating. While bends in the flow and distance of tubing does add resistance, it does not do so at a 1:1 ratio to the foot/head amount. The added resistance of that 6 pass is negligable if any, and since it goes through a smooth bore as opposed to the fins of a heatercore, it might actually flow better.

Edit: Now as to what is better between that six pass and a regular heatercore....I have no idea.
 
Originally posted by Animal982
Yeah that would be all fine and dandy if you actually got 315GPH at 10 foot of head but you dont. Look at the pump curves HERE At 10 feet of head on the danner mag 3 you would be getting under 50 GPH which in turn would raise the c/w of your waterblock. Also heatercores are a lot more efficient at cooling since there is more surface area for air to flow over. If you know how heatercores are made you would see that water flows not through a big section of pipe but through many 'fins' like shown in the picture HERE where as with the transmission coolers linked it just has copper or aluminum fins saudered on the copper pipe.

In conclusion I pose a question. If these transmission coolers were so great to use for PC watercooling why is it do you think that practically everyone uses heatercores?
Click to expand...
A Mag 3 could push 150gph through 34' of 1/2" copper tubing.
93' of 1/2" copper tubing would still manage 100gph.

It would take 425' of 1/2" copper tubing to bring it below 50gph.
 
I got a response back from Derale about the radiators. Here's the response:

The 15502B core is made of copper tube with aluminum fins. We feel this is the best tube and fin design for maximum heat dissipation. We also expand each copper tube for an interference fit with the fins. Also by powdercoating the core semi-gloss black we maximize heat dissipation.
Click to expand...

The quality of these radiators seems high. When I build my new system this summer, I think I'm going with one of these.

It would be nice if HardOCP did a comparison of all the popular radiators and heater cores on the market. ;)
 
Sounds good except for this:
Also by powdercoating the core semi-gloss black we maximize heat dissipation
Click to expand...

which sounds like a load of crap. Powdercoating would result in LESS efficient heat transfer. He's probably trying to tell you that the black coat will aid in better heat radiation (by electromagnetic waves), which may or may not be true. However, heat radiation is negligible until you get to several hundred degrees C. In your case, the powdercoat is only impeding heat transfer. Luckily it's probably not that much of a difference.
Other than that, looks like a pretty nice radiator. I used a transmission cooler the first time I put a watercooling system together and it worked pretty well.
 
It is an oil cooler, meaning it is an automotive solution. Automotive solutions require much more weatherproofing than a computer system, so I'd imagine that is the best way to transfer heat without impacting cooling performance. Really, the stuff is very thin and wont hurt anything.
 
Originally posted by killernoodle
It is an oil cooler, meaning it is an automotive solution. Automotive solutions require much more weatherproofing than a computer system, so I'd imagine that is the best way to transfer heat without impacting cooling performance. Really, the stuff is very thin and wont hurt anything.
Click to expand...

Right, but he claims it's to maximize heat dissipation, not for environmental protection. I know it probably won't make much of a difference in this scenario.
 
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