Cheap USB amp?

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cesium666

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I'm gonna be buying a pair of headphones soon (in the $200-250 range), so something tells me I'll probably need an amp. Since these headphones are strictly for PC use, and my laptop int sound is absolutely horrible, I'll need an amp or a sound card or something.

What do you recommend?
 
i was lookin around at head-fi for a while but anything that seemed decent was like 200+ :(

I would prefer to spend under 100 but i'm guessing that's not gonna be possible

would i be fine with a usb sound card, or would i need an amp? (altho i guess this depends on what cans i get - im looking at senn hd600s or the ultrasone dj1 pros atm)
 
I'd reccommend starting off with the E-MU line of USB sound cards. The 0202 USB or 0404 USB should work nicely. 0202 USB is about $100. Amp in them is potent but a dedicated is always better.
 
would something like an alien DAC work better (they have a burr brown dac right?)?
or does that bring in the issue of a lack of an amp?
 
hm that cmoy looks nice. i like building stuff so that could be a solid route. i could also buy a premade one. hm

but i still need something with usb for my laptop :(

EDIT: i think ill have to decide on headphones first and then based on impedance and whatnot i might just get a dac for now and an amp once i get more money
 
Can't say that you need an amp without knowing what headphones you're using. Many don't need one at all. If the goal is to replace your laptop's sound output with a better quality one, you pretty much want a ~$200 dac/amp to do it well.

Here's how things go:

Digital source >> Digital-to-Analog Conversion >> Amplification >> Output

If you just get an amp, you will continue using the low-grade DAC built into your laptop's sound card. Maybe it will help. If your laptop has an actual line-out jack, the odds of it helping meaningfully are MUCH greater. Amplifying the already-amplified signal on the headphone jack can give decidedly mixed results. (FYI there is no such thing as a USB amp, which would entail amplifying the electrical signal on a USB interconnect and probably frying all the devices connected to it.)

If you just get a dac, you're screwed unless you also get an amp. There won't be enough power to drive anything other than possibly the most responsive headphones. SOME level of amplification is necessary - this is what supplies the actual electrical power to make the drivers in your headphones do work. There are some DIY DACs worth looking at like the AMB gamma-1.

You can get a dac/amp combo device, for example an iBasso or an E-MU 0404 USB. This will give you a complete replacement to your laptop's internal sound card, which is itself a dac/amp combo device. The problem is that both the examples I named are indeed ~$200. You could go back to getting a separate dac and amp...which are both around $100 each. But maybe you could have a dac built for ~$100, then build or get built a cheapo amp like the cmoy which you could later replace on its own.

The cmoy is, of itself, a fun project just for the sake of learning basic soldering and circuit building.
 
ya, by USB amp i meant a combo dac/amp; sorry, i should have been more clear.

im highly doubtful that either of my 2 laptops audio jacks are actual line-outs (when i plug in my shures i have to keep the volume at the absolute lowest level otherwise its waay too loud).

ya i guess ill see what to do once i pick out a pair of headphones.
 
If you have two, it's probably headphone + microphone. This is probably 98% of laptops.

IMO get headphones that aren't too picky about amplification, but maybe that can improve with it. Then get a dac/amp when you can throw some extra $$ at it. I would particularly look for one with a gain switch as it will play nice with different headphones and maybe be a bit more helpful on the Shures.
 
ashmedai said:
If you have two, it's probably headphone + microphone. This is probably 98% of laptops.

IMO get headphones that aren't too picky about amplification, but maybe that can improve with it. Then get a dac/amp when you can throw some extra $$ at it. I would particularly look for one with a gain switch as it will play nice with different headphones and maybe be a bit more helpful on the Shures.
Click to expand...

i actually have 3. 2 headphone jacks and a mic jack.

i dont care about using my shures through the amp/dac, as theyre mainly for whatever mp3 player i buy (i sold my old one a few weeks ago). im just using them now on my laptop as theyre my only headphones.
 
A little out of your price range, but you should check out the NuForce Icon.
 
cesium666 said:
i actually have 3. 2 headphone jacks and a mic jack
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That's more than a little odd. Are you really, really sure one isn't a line-out?

Edit:

Okay, googled up your XPS M1210. Apparently Dell's engineers were just on crack the day they designed it; you do indeed have redundant headphone outputs.
 
Face said:
A little out of your price range, but you should check out the NuForce Icon.
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wow that looks nice. but ya, out of my range :(

ashmedai said:
That's more than a little odd. Are you really, really sure one isn't a line-out?
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ya im 100% sure. the volume comes out the exact same, and in teh drivers both are listed as headphone ports.

lolwf6.jpg


also, i was looking on head-fi and saw this: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f42/f...opa627-usb-optical-adaptor-new-tested-407236/
do you think thats a good solution? ive heard good things about the zero dac and i know that opamp is a good one. and unless im mistaken, the usb-optical adapter will allow easy use with a pc
 
The Zero is great, and can become much better with some mods. The reason I didn't consider it is that you said this is for your laptop, so I assumed you wanted portable options only. If I'm wrong, it would be a great option.
 
ashmedai said:
The Zero is great, and can become much better with some mods. The reason I didn't consider it is that you said this is for your laptop, so I assumed you wanted portable options only. If I'm wrong, it would be a great option.
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oh. i should have mentioned that, my bad entirely. i dont need it to be portable in any way. the laptop just sits on my desk (dont have space for desktop at school), and id only use the headphones at the desk. i have my shures for my portable needs, and i dont care about using an amp with them.

the zero that dudes selling seems like a decent deal considering the opamp upgrade and adapter.
 
Zero then.

The version with the HDAM upgrade is well worth it if you have the money.

If you could swing about $300, the Audio-gd Compass would be a good alternative. The price and quality would be roughly equivalent to a fully upgraded Zero, but with better amplification and no need to take a soldering iron to it first.
 
ashmedai said:
If you could swing about $300, the Audio-gd Compass would be a good alternative. The price and quality would be roughly equivalent to a fully upgraded Zero, but with better amplification and no need to take a soldering iron to it first.
Click to expand...

I won't have that type of money to spend for another year or two at the very very least :( My absolute max budget for headphones+amp is $400. So the zero dac + used hd600s or something else should fit the bill.
 
Yeah, I'm working through the same puzzle now. Those ELT525s I got recently bumped my audio upgrade hunger up another notch.

I'm trying very hard not to try and order some HD800s and a balanced tube amp. Used HD6x0s are on the list of alternatives...I'm not sure I like what I hear about the "three-blob" soundstage issue though. And unlike the HD800s, they have one of Senny's relatively crappy headbands. :(

Which I guess is itself a stalling measure in the "do not order Stax Omega IIs from Woo Audio" game?
 
haha ya im trying to just get the best bang for the buck that can hopefully keep me satiated for a year or two.

i wish there was somewhere i could listen to a bunch of these headphones to see how they sound with whatever music i want. the closest thing i can find is guitarcenter, but from what i understand, they only have a very select few units in the store, and of those, only a select few which you can listen to.. *sigh*

EDIT: hm some of the mods for the zero dac seem relatively simple (adding the LT1364 opamps to the headphone section). im handy enough at a soldering iron so i figure thats a cheap upgrade down the line.

also, unless im mistaken, i should be able to sell back the zero dac for at most maye a 20 dollar loss, which is fine when time comes to upgrade
 
What's crappy about the Sennheiser headbands? I've owned about 4 HD650s, 2 HD600s, and 2 HD580 Jubilees in my headphone past and the only ones I ever had issues with were one HD600 where the previous owner apparently has a ginormous head and completely stretched it out, and one Jubilee where the carbon overlay was coming off. Other than that, they're comfortable, reliable, and easy to fix with replaceable headband pads available for a song direct from Senheiser. YMMV but I prefer their headband to that of Sony, Grado, or AT. The Beyers are nice but they're quite stiff imo.
 
A head-fi meet is the best option to try stuff out - if you get lucky and there's one near you at the time you're planning to upgrade. No-questions return policies don't hurt either.

skyline889 said:
What's crappy about the Sennheiser headbands?
Click to expand...

Most of them are flimsy at best. Others have a disturbing tendency to break a month or two after purchase. Very, very few of their models have one that feels particularly sturdy (excluding portables etc, but we're not looking at those).

Headbands are not effing rocket science. Senny should fix them, but consistently uses their reinforced-plastic floppy-earmuff design. Innovate, FFS!


Also, your post was something like, "they're awesome! except this one, oh and that one...but they're awesome!" If they were all that great, you would be able to present a more consistent portrait of their quality, yes?
 
Hmm, well I'm not exactly malicious with my headphones but I've owned all the Senns listed above for extended periods of time, purchased both used and new, and none have ever broken on me. If you're talking about cans like the PX-100s then yeah, they're built to a budget but the HD6x0/580 line are solid in my experience.

ashmedai said:
Also, your post was something like, "they're awesome! except this one, oh and that one...but they're awesome!" If they were all that great, you would be able to present a more consistent portrait of their quality, yes?
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:rolleyes:

The Jubilee was over ten years old and had been through a multitude of owners. They didn't break, they were in perfect working condition. The carbon fiber overlay was fake carbon fiber and began to peel a little underneath the center of the headband, purely cosmetic damage, and frankly unnoticeable if it weren't a collector's item.

The HD600 was one pair out of eight I listed. They too were not broken, they were just a little loose as I'm asian and don't have the head the size of a wide receiver. I should say that I have also owned the original HD580s way back when and did not have any problems with those either. Owned nine and had only one with a "problem". How many have you owned that you speak from experience about?
 
ashmedai said:
A head-fi meet is the best option to try stuff out - if you get lucky and there's one near you at the time you're planning to upgrade. No-questions return policies don't hurt either.
Click to expand...

Yeah that was my first thought. Doesn't look like anything is planned anytime soon near me (detroit area).

i didnt think about the return policy idea. imma look around for that. i know guitarcenter charges a 15% restocking so im not going there :-/
 
Amazon is usually good about returns if nothing else, but you have to be careful about what you're buying and whether it's from a third party. Also sometimes their price is competitive, and sometimes it is a few $100 over what it is elsewhere...
 
cesium666 said:
Yeah that was my first thought. Doesn't look like anything is planned anytime soon near me (detroit area).

i didnt think about the return policy idea. imma look around for that. i know guitarcenter charges a 15% restocking so im not going there :-/
Click to expand...
Head-Fi meets are great but if you don't have any around you, like myself for most of the time, the Head-Fi used forums are a great way to try out different cans for very little money. If you look for good deals, often times you'll only be out the cost of shipping to and from if and when you decide to sell. Most people at Head-Fi also take very good care of their gear (I bought my "problem" HD600s from Audiogon, though the price he gave me more then made up for the issue) so you're able to find some truly great deals.

As for the return policy deal, it's fine as long as you do so not planning on returning them or knowing that you 100% will return them. If you try them out and you simply don't like them that's perfectly fine obviously but if you buy them knowing you just want to listen to them, it's a questionable practice and frowned upon by many at Head-Fi (especially at stores like Headroom).
 
Yeah, liberal return policies are more of a safety net.

The buy used & resell idea is good, if one with a little risk and patience involved. The other bonus is that any "burn-in" that could potentially occur is likely to already be out of the way, other than the psychological factor of estrangement.
 
ya all solid ideas. my friend has a pair of audio-technica ad700s [which i recc'd to him], so i plan to listen to those in a few days to get a 'baseline' off of which i can go off (i.e. i want more/less bass, etc).

im still confused a little bit on the dac/amps, in terms of like the opamps. they all give you different sounds, so i have no idea which one would be 'optimal.' now i know its purely subjective and the best way is to experiment, but that's a luxury i simply cannot afford.
on the other hand, since my current headphones and 'dac' are all crap, id assume that anything would sound much much better, in which case id be fine with whatever it comes with and experiment later.
 
The op-amp is a circuit element which has "gain" if appropriately configured, meaning that it takes a low-amplitude input and reproduces the same signal with a higher amplitude as determined by surrounding circuit elements & voltages (it also does a load of other useful things like let you patch two circuits together with relative disregard for how they will affect each other). Amplifiers are centered around some sort of gain circuit, with the op-amp being the fundamental component of most digital amplifiers (some use individual transistors instead of an op-amp, which is itself a prearranged bundle of transistors on an IC).

So with a rough practical idea of what an op-amp does, here's the rub - there is no "optimal" one. They all have different properties, and some are outright unsuitable. Others will give you the devil's own time trying to get them stable in a given circuit. So say you toss out thousands and narrow it down...stick to the ones that your supplier has in stock for cheap...you still have dozens to pick from at the least.

The op-amps in an amplifier are chosen off a few things - resulting sound quality as judged by the guy trying to engineer a saleable product, availability, part cost, stuff like that. But there is still no one best choice. This leads to the practice of swapping out the op-amps in order to tweak the resulting sound and get something the individual user finds more enjoyable, referred to as "rolling". Sometimes the op-amps are soldered in, and the only way to do this is by desoldering it first; other times the op-amps are deliberately mounted in sockets instead so it's easy to swap out. A lot of DIY and enthusiast amps allow for exactly that because it's popular, and a very cheap way to improve user satisfaction (and therefore sales).

Oh, and you can "roll" vacuum tubes in a number of amps as well. Same effect since in each case you're replacing the core part of the gain circuit with a different one, the character of the resulting sound is changed and you can tinker around to get relatively cheap improvements.
 
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