Charging for Open-Source

[netsider]

I've been under the impression that if you take open-source software (like Linux, Apache, Java.. etc) and modify it, it can't be sold. However, I could be wrong, and that's why I'm asking.

RedHat sells their "enterprise Linux", and charges for it.. but I always thought that was because you're paying for their support, and not a license for the software itself. Can you provide paid support for open-source products that you didn't develop? (#1) (I'm guessing you can)

Oracle bought MySQL from SUN, but MySQL is listed as open-source (*and* also listed as proprietary) by Wikipedia. How can something be both open-source, and proprietary? (#2)

Java (also developed partly by Oracle) isn't proprietary, and is open-source... *but* they sued Google for using it. (That's my understanding, anyway.. but feel free to correct me on any of this). How can this happen, and why does there seem to be a grey area? (#3) (If there isn't a gray area, I'm just confused).

Also, how can someone find source code for a certain program that is open source? Is there a registry somewhere that contains it? (#4)

One more: Is there a process for buying source-code? And why do people seem to buy source code for things that won't generate money or sales? I once had a friend who programmed a game trainer in visual basic, and sold the source code for $1000 by some guy who used it for the game it was made for (Red Alert). I've always wondered why the guy wanted it... or paid that much for it. (#5)

Sorry for the list of questions. I numbered them to make things easier. Thanks!

 

[faugusztin]

0) There is nothing in open source licences which would block you from selling it. The question is if you are willing to pay for it.
1) Red Hat charges you for support and hardware is certified for RHEL. If you want RHEL for free, get CentOS. It is the same thing, minus the support.
2) MySQL in base form is OSS, but Oracle provides some paid extensions. You pay for those extensions.
3) Sun/Oracle sued Google for infringing on their intellectual property, not for using Java. You can make your application open source and still own patents you need to licence if you want to distribute a modified version.
4) how do you find it ? Go to homepage of the application, usually you have a link there, most times the source code is right next to the DEB/RPM packages .
5) you don't buy source code, you buy either author rights (if your country allows it) or exclusive rights to that code (so the original author can't use it elsewhere, or for someone else).

 

[Copper0]

Depending on the license the 'open source' code is written under, for example the GPL. there is nothing that says you can't charge for it. It is up to the user what he is willing to pay.

If your mom makes you dinner would you be willing to pay her? How much do you think that is worth?

 

[netsider]

0) There is nothing in open source licences which would block you from selling it. The question is if you are willing to pay for it.
1) Red Hat charges you for support and hardware is certified for RHEL. If you want RHEL for free, get CentOS. It is the same thing, minus the support.
2) MySQL in base form is OSS, but Oracle provides some paid extensions. You pay for those extensions.
3) Sun/Oracle sued Google for infringing on their intellectual property, not for using Java. You can make your application open source and still own patents you need to licence if you want to distribute a modified version.
4) how do you find it ? Go to homepage of the application, usually you have a link there, most times the source code is right next to the DEB/RPM packages .
5) you don't buy source code, you buy either author rights (if your country allows it) or exclusive rights to that code (so the original author can't use it elsewhere, or for someone else).

I guess I have a lot to learn about copyrighting and licensing.. I honestly never knew most of those questions. I thought open-source couldn't be sold.. but I stand corrected.

Thanks for answering all of those. It makes a lot more sense now and I'm less confused about this whole thing. Certain things (like this) that I thought I knew were confusing a lot of things I'm learning about or hearing nowadays.

Take care. I'll post anymore questions if I have them.

 

[Dogs]

I've been under the impression that if you take open-source software (like Linux, Apache, Java.. etc) and modify it, it can't be sold. However, I could be wrong, and that's why I'm asking.

It depends on how it's licensed. Software under the GPL v2 requires that any changes made to the software must also be open sourced and released under the same license, so if it's under GPL v2, you can sell it but you still must provide the source to your software.

In GPL v3, you can still sell your software, but due to clauses about DRM in the license, you don't really have a reliable way to enforce license purchasing. From my understanding, people are allowed to freely circumvent your DRM. There's also some very specific limitations with regards to software patents and your ability to file suit for patent infringement.

Other licenses, such as the BSD license or the MIT license, allow for you to modify the code as you see fit and incorporate it into a for-profit product without having to release your code as open source.

There's been a big debate about this lately, and it has sparked some controversy between the GNU projects and other projects like LLVM and Clang. I personally believe the BSD licensure is what has allowed projects like LLVM/Clang to be so successful so quickly....The licensure protects the profitability and commercial usefulness of corporations' investments into the projects while still encouraging them to give back to the community. Even the greediest company on earth, Apple, has done wonders in growing the LLVM/Clang projects into what they are.

RedHat sells their "enterprise Linux", and charges for it.. but I always thought that was because you're paying for their support, and not a license for the software itself. Can you provide paid support for open-source products that you didn't develop? (#1) (I'm guessing you can)

Red Hat open-sources their products in their 'community' editions to meet GPL licensure requirements. The Linux kernel is licensed under GPL v2, which requires that Red Hat's modifications to the original code be made open source. This is why Red Hat has the Fedora and CentOS community projects. The license doesn't forbid them from selling a commercial product based around their changes...it simply requires that these changes be made open source to ensure companies are giving back to the project's they've been able to benefit from.

 

[netsider]

Red Hat open-sources their products in their 'community' editions to meet GPL licensure requirements. The Linux kernel is licensed under GPL v2, which requires that Red Hat's modifications to the original code be made open source. This is why Red Hat has the Fedora and CentOS community projects. The license doesn't forbid them from selling a commercial product based around their changes...it simply requires that these changes be made open source to ensure companies are giving back to the project's they've been able to benefit from.

Oh, well, that makes sense. I honestly don't know why I thought open-source couldn't be sold. Maybe because it's thought of as "free" software to users. I guess this is what happens when you assume something and keep "running with it"

If you don't modify the software, and then sell it.. I'm assuming it's not legal or covered under the open source licenses, right?

Thanks for clearing that up... I've probably looked ignorant by thinking that

 

[ColdSun]

Oh, well, that makes sense. I honestly don't know why I thought open-source couldn't be sold. Maybe because it's thought of as "free" software to users. I guess this is what happens when you assume something and keep "running with it"

If you don't modify the software, and then sell it.. I'm assuming it's not legal or covered under the open source licenses, right?

Thanks for clearing that up... I've probably looked ignorant by thinking that

You can sell it even if you don't modify it. The question is, who would buy it?

 

[Dogs]

If you don't modify the software, and then sell it.. I'm assuming it's not legal or covered under the open source licenses, right?

In most cases, that would be legal and covered by the license. See whichever license's section on distribution. But in most cases, nobody would buy it from you. Furthermore, in the case of the GPL, anybody who pays your fee and buys it from you has the right to then distribute it for cheaper than what you're distributing it for or for free. In either case, they don't have to pay you anything on top of the original fee they paid.