Certs vs Experience?

NetJunkie said:
While true, how long does it take to cover those obscure things? You don't need a class for it. At worst it's probably $50 for a book and a week to read what you need. You don't need to ace the cert exam..just pass it.
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Study time depends entirely on the individual.
Those obscure things might take you a few days with a book, but someone with other obligations or poor time management skills might take longer.

Granted, you shouldn't be taking semester long classes, or boot camps just to brush up on material you already know. If you already know most of the material and are just studying to refresh and cover the few topics that are new material or items that you don't do in your daily routine your study time will be far less.
 
rofl, I'd like to see someone that is working full-time (and not in a service provider environment) prep for something like the BGP exam or try to fill in the gaps for the CCIE R&S written in just a few days. Sorry I call BS.

A seasoned professional can blow through an associate level exam that fast, which is why it's silly to keep wasting money on retaking it unless your employer requires it, but most people don't have the skills and breadth of experience to pull that off.

I had a coworker that was a pretty solid "network guy" that failed the CCNA four times before giving up on trying to get it. He just wasn't a good test taker, but never had a problem getting anything done in the real world where there isn't a clock ticking in the upper right portion of the screen and you can only take notes with a clumsy dry erase pen on a tiny sheet of plastic while locked in a broom closet with a computer.

Tests just aren't for everyone. Calling people lazy or cheap for not taking them is still pretty short-sighted.
 
Come on people. Did I say fill gaps on the CCIE R&S Written? No..I'm talking things like renewing your CCNP.

If you don't want to do it, don't do it. OP asked for an opinion and I gave one...as someone that's been in the field a long time, moved up, does hiring, and has seen customer and reseller sides. Call me short sighted but my opinion is what I think.
 
NetJunkie said:
Come on people. Did I say fill gaps on the CCIE R&S Written? No..I'm talking things like renewing your CCNP.

If you don't want to do it, don't do it. OP asked for an opinion and I gave one...as someone that's been in the field a long time, moved up, does hiring, and has seen customer and reseller sides. Call me short sighted but my opinion is what I think.
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Matt seems to take all the opinions in this thread and try and take them to the extreme... then calls you names.
 
Certs are useful for moving around in a field.

If I felt that I'd never switch jobs again I might consider letting my certs lapse (assuming my job didn't depend on me having a current CCIE).

I think you'll be able to find a job without current certs just fine, as long as you mention on your resume that some certs are expired. Obviously having to explain that can be tough in an interview.

If you want to open the most possible doors, you'll want to make your certs current. That's probably the best way of looking at it.
 
mattjw916 said:
Not everyone does 9-5 in a NOC waiting for OpenView to send an alert while watching cat videos on youtube everyday.
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:rolleyes: Wow, it must be nice to work in a NOC like that.
It's 8-5 thank-you-very-much and I hardly have time to get up and use the bathroom with the amount of trouble tickets that I handle every day.
 
Experience is better than certification. Gaining certification is the part where you learn how to do a job and a paper that certifies that you can do the job. Experience is you actually performing the job.
 
A couple years back I had a delusion of getting my CCNP and CCIE without the experience first. Yeah right. Finally starting to work on professional level tests now that I've had a few years in the field and my CCNA. To be a winner, you have to have the experience first, then the certification backs up your knowledge.
 
Protoform-X said:
A couple years back I had a delusion of getting my CCNP and CCIE without the experience first. Yeah right. Finally starting to work on professional level tests now that I've had a few years in the field and my CCNA. To be a winner, you have to have the experience first, then the certification backs up your knowledge.
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That's why there's associate, professional and expert level certs. Associate level is the help you get your foot in the door. Professional and expert are (usually) for when you've gained experience with that specific technology and want to "prove it". The way I look at it is, if you already have to learn it (or want to), why not just get certified in it so you have something you can physically show for it. To each their own, but this is the way I prefer to go about it.
 
Protoform-X said:
A couple years back I had a delusion of getting my CCNP and CCIE without the experience first. Yeah right. Finally starting to work on professional level tests now that I've had a few years in the field and my CCNA. To be a winner, you have to have the experience first, then the certification backs up your knowledge.
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I remember how much shit everyone gave me because I was trying to explain that to you.
 
KidZer0 said:
That's why there's associate, professional and expert level certs. Associate level is the help you get your foot in the door. Professional and expert are (usually) for when you've gained experience with that specific technology and want to "prove it". The way I look at it is, if you already have to learn it (or want to), why not just get certified in it so you have something you can physically show for it. To each their own, but this is the way I prefer to go about it.
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This.. don't go too far down the cert tunnel without on the job experience at the same time. Unfortunately things have been muddled by third parties marketing certs as an easy ticket to a new job and those one week crash courses.. oh well we're kind of beating a dead horse at this point in the thread.
 
Certs are mainly a marketing tool for the vendor (or their technology). Experience is far more valuable than a certificate.

For candidates that don't have much experience, a cert might tell the difference between one candidate and the other. But I'd still interview to test their skills and knowledge, and am accustomed to finding that candidates with certs studied to get the cert, and didn't study to get more knowledge.
 
I haven't renewed my certs in over 10 years since I have over 20 years in Network Security and Forensics. I think its a matter of preference.

I actually train Masters and PhD people in Computer security yet I only hold a BA in Computer Science.
So remember only time you need that paper is if your a Lawyer or a Doctor for professionals.

I a firm believer in self education that way you learn the mistakes of a novice and you will learn how to over come them so in the future you can help others.
 
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