Certs vs Experience?

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Valnar

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I've wanted to write something like this for awhile but only now got around to it, so here goes.

I have a variety of expired certifications. CCNP, MCSE+I, CCDA. Hardware certs are HP Laserjets, Toshiba, IBM Thinkpads, Acer and my A+, which I think is still active. I also had HP Star, 3COM Wizard and some others I forgot.

When I was younger and starting off, I collected certifications. Now that I have over 12 years experience doing Networking (my chosen field) and hardware certs that go back to 1995, I haven't found the need to renew them. It takes a lot of time and money to retest every 3 years on most of these things. Sure, if I only had my Cisco CCNP it might not be bad, but if I wanted to keep up my CCDA or get my CCDP, the MCSE, etc, all I would do is study - and a family kinda prevents that these days.

So I still list them on my resume, but they are expired. My experience section shows all the things I have accomplished and learned instead. I currently do not have a consulting gig and don't plan on having one in the future (where clients like to see those acronyms after your name). I work for an in house IT department.

Is anyone else in the same boat as me? If I were to change jobs, are certs still needed or does proven experience trump all?

I'm in my early 40's and started my professional IT career in my mid 20's.
 
While certs don't prove much, I've found that they're a "requirement" for many jobs. The hiring managers aren't the people picking candidates at the first tier, it's HR. HR people go by what the hiring manager has laid out in the requirements, so while the manager way want "CCNP-level knowledge" the HR person likely won't be able to differentiate and therefore will stick to people with the NP.

Your case is a bit unique in that you list the expired certs on your resume, which is probably enough to get past HR... but might piss some people off as well. If networking is your chosen field, and you want consideration for most of the jobs at your skill level, go get your NP current. It's four tests (if you don't have a current NA) and really worth it, IMO.
 
You can probably list the certs with the dates achieved. If they are important then the person asking will probably know when they expire. But really I don't think they count for much vs experience.
 
Valnar said:
ISure, if I only had my Cisco CCNP it might not be bad, but if I wanted to keep up my CCDA or get my CCDP, the MCSE, etc, all I would do is study - and a family kinda prevents that these days.
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For the CCDA renewing your CCNP also renews any lower level Cisco certifications.
The MCSE (if for 2003) is technically still active. Microsoft certs have some of the longest validity periods (with the exception of no expiring certs) since MS certs are valid for as long as the product is supported my Microsoft.

Server 2003 is still supported until 2015. And the MCITP certs will be around until at least 2018.
http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-us&x=14&y=9&c2=1163

So I really don't see your argument about having to re-test every 3 years for multiple certs.
Your MCSE is still active, your CompTIA stuff was acquired when CompTIA were non-expiring, and your CCNP can be re-validated by passing the current CCNP tests which would also renew your CCDA.

EDIT: Also, if you did get your CCDP, not only would it renew your current expired CCNP, but would also serve to renew your CCDA.

Second Edit : Don't get me wrong, I'm on board with experience trumps everything, but the certs you have are great but are certainly not as hard as you think to re-up if you wanted to go that route.
 
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Certs help you get past the bullshit HR screening if you apply for a job in a large company. But having a good network gets you past HR even faster ;) And yes experience trumps everything. Experience > Networking > Interviewing Skills > Pretty resume + certs
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
EDIT: Also, if you did get your CCDP, not only would it renew your current expired CCNP, but would also serve to renew your CCDA.
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To clarify, this wouldn't renew his certs if they're expired. He will have to follow the cert path to the NP if his certs are truly expired.
 
Vito_Corleone said:
To clarify, this wouldn't renew his certs if they're expired. He will have to follow the cert path to the NP if his certs are truly expired.
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I had to look this up. Good info. I have never had a cert actually expire since I'm always getting some new cert before my 3 years is up.
 
First, if you list them on your resume I highly suggest you note they are expired. If not that may not reflect well on you in an interview.

I've been in enterprise IT for about 17 years now. At this point I don't hold as many certs as I once did. Many I have let expire or I'm certified in old versions (MCSE and RHCE are like that). I still do hold some high-end and certs that are specific to what I do. I still have my CCNP along with a lot of Cisco specialty certs which are often requirements that I carry since I work for a Cisco partner. I still carry my CISSP because it's not hard to maintain and I still do work on the security side...plus, it's not one I want to lose as it holds a lot of value. My other major one is a VMware cert (VCDX) that only 68 people in the WORLD have so obviously I make sure that one is maintained, plus I have to keep the base VMware VCP for partner requirements.

Certs don't get you a job, but they add more to what you offer. If you're someone that is heavily focused in networking, especially Cisco, I'm going to ask you why you let your CCNP expire. If you say it's not worth the time to study and re-cert I'm going to ask more questions about that. A good Cisco person should be able to maintain a CCNP once achieved without a ton of work.

In the end experience almost always trumps certs...but with a similar candidate certs can help, especially if you are interviewing with a VAR/reseller/partner. Also, the time to gain, renew, and maintain certs is when you are gainfully employed, not when between jobs. I can't count how many times I've had friends get laid off are be between contracts and then start to scramble. Too late.
 
Personally, I wouldn't list expired certs.
We interviewed a guy one time that listed an MCSE for Server 2000. (This interview was only about a year ago)

I thought it looked very odd that he would even list it since the skill-set for Server 2000 is entirely different from modern server OS's. It honestly made the guy look old. It made me think this guy was technical 10 years ago, but hasn't updated his skill-set and is still working with best practices and a frame of mind from the NT4 days about how to configure things.

EDIT: I'll add a note to Net Junkies post that I agree with him for the most part. What I would tack on to his post though is that if you are wanting to be an IT Manager type position expired certs are perfectly acceptable. However if you are trying to stay in the Net Eng field and be an operations guy then Net Junkie is right to ask why you have let your certs expire and why you haven't kept up with them.
 
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Valnar said:
Is anyone else in the same boat as me? If I were to change jobs, are certs still needed or does proven experience trump all?.
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It is all in how you sell yourself. Yes having all certs current would look better than someone that "had" certs in the past. As mentioned above, many larger places will have HR people sifting through the pile of incoming apps. Make those words count. I'd list the history of certs that you have. That..combined with how your sell yourself in the first paragraph, may me good for the person sifting through the pile of apps.

Once you're doing an interview...time to pour it on.

Remember...some of those HT people sifting through the pile of apps may "have a clue"..an realize that certs don't mean everything..that actual experience > all.

There is no concrete answer for those...."people" in HR are doing it..and these people can vary. Some may be just "going through the motions"..others may actually be reading the apps carefully and applying reasoning to them. Some of them are smart enough to know there are just "paper cert idiots out there and passed tests from braindumps".
 
My MCSE+I is from NT 4.0, so yah, its expired. But nevertheless, it was important at the time when I got it. I don't do Microsoft server work now, so it's not important that I renew it.

My current company of 11 years doesn't value certs, so I had to get my CCNP and CCDA on my own dime. I never got around to renewing them because no promotion or compensation depended on it. However, I may change jobs soon hence the reason for my question.
 
Before I re-certified everything I still listed all my "old" certs on my resume (still do in fact). No one ever asked if they were current but if they did I would have told the truth, which was I stopped taking tests when my employers stopped paying for them or the cert wasn't relevant to my current position. I never had any problem breezing through technical interviews so generally after a couple questions they just moved on to something else.

If someone said they didn't keep up with tests because their family took up too much of their time that would be a huge red-flag for a new hire.
 
mattjw916 said:
Before I re-certified everything I still listed all my "old" certs on my resume (still do in fact). No one ever asked if they were current but if they did I would have told the truth, which was I stopped taking tests when my employers stopped paying for them or the cert wasn't relevant to my current position. I never had any problem breezing through technical interviews so generally after a couple questions they just moved on to something else.

If someone said they didn't keep up with tests because their family took up too much of their time that would be a huge red-flag for a new hire.
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That's a good tip. Thanks.
 
Stop depending on an employer to pay for certs and exams. If they do, great....if not, it's still your responsibility to make yourself marketable. Is $150 or $200 too much to put in to an exam to maintain a cert? What does that say about your commitment to a potential employer?

You need to learn how to market yourself. Skillset, experience, certs, maybe degrees...plus other things to make you marketable. That's how you move way ahead.
 
NetJunkie said:
Stop depending on an employer to pay for certs and exams. If they do, great....if not, it's still your responsibility to make yourself marketable. Is $150 or $200 too much to put in to an exam to maintain a cert? What does that say about your commitment to a potential employer?

You need to learn how to market yourself. Skillset, experience, certs, maybe degrees...plus other things to make you marketable. That's how you move way ahead.
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This +1
Nothing makes you sound more entitled then when you say " I didn't do it because my employer didn't pay for it"
How cheap are you? So you won't better yourself unless someone pays you to do it? I look for people that are passionate about their field. If you get certs and attend trainings DESPITE your employer paying for it that shows me you have a thirst for knowledge and are constantly striving to know more than you do. That's the kind of person we want. Not someone that will only do something if there is money involved. That shows me you're just going to do the bare minimum if we hire you. Work your 8 hours then go home regardless if the job is done or not.
 
Sorry but your logic is flawed. If an employer does not require you to maintain a particular active cert why fork out the money? I'd rather buy $200 worth of books than a worthless piece of paper. After the 30 or so exams I've passed is another really needed at that point to prove anything? My experience says no. Not in the least. There are plenty of expired CCIEs out there that would agree as well. Not everyone maintains their certs perpetually. That doesn't mean they didn't keep current or are time-card punchers in the slightest.

The opposite end of just re-certifying everything with one simple written test is you have people with old skills that take an easy test (I'll use BCMSN aka SWITCH as an example, which is really easy in my opinion and hasn't changed much over the years) and all their other certs are now "current" again. They could have an ancient CCSP that covered the PIXs and a CCNP back from when BCRAN and CIT were part of the 4 test track (like when I first went through CCNP) but now they are magically "current" CC-whatevers again.

One of my friends even has a coworker that got his CCIE on IOS 11.2 (or thereabouts). He just retakes the written every two years or so and maintains it. Now compare the CCIE from back then to version 4 now. They are totally different tests... no ISDN or IS-IS anymore, hardly any frame-relay, and now there's plenty of IPv6 unicast and multicast routing, MPLS, etc on the new one. But one hour in a testing center and he's all up to date? Methinks not necessarily.
 
Xeth said:
Certs help you get past the bullshit HR screening if you apply for a job in a large company. But having a good network gets you past HR even faster ;) And yes experience trumps everything. Experience > Networking > Interviewing Skills > Pretty resume + certs
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+ 1
 
@matt, I'm not argueing about the technical merits of re-certifying, I'm talking about the fact that you look (at least in my opinion) like a bare minimum kind of person when you won't do some kind of training or certification unless your employer pays for it.

Having that kind of attitude towards things shows me you are only focused on money and the pursuit of it. That is not the kind of person we want to hire. We want people that are passionate about their job, not just here for the money. People that think "a job is a job" are doing the wrong thing.
 
Vito_Corleone said:
While certs don't prove much, I've found that they're a "requirement" for many jobs. The hiring managers aren't the people picking candidates at the first tier, it's HR. HR people go by what the hiring manager has laid out in the requirements, so while the manager way want "CCNP-level knowledge" the HR person likely won't be able to differentiate and therefore will stick to people with the NP.

Your case is a bit unique in that you list the expired certs on your resume, which is probably enough to get past HR... but might piss some people off as well. If networking is your chosen field, and you want consideration for most of the jobs at your skill level, go get your NP current. It's four tests (if you don't have a current NA) and really worth it, IMO.
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This + I would at least give you an interview. From there I would see if you're a hire-able candidate by the various stupid questions I would ask you concerning the CMD prompt and how you would you address someone if they asked you what the CD tray was for. Then, when you think you've nailed the interview, I would ask you why you let your certs expire. GG?? maybe.
 
mattjw916 said:
Sorry but your logic is flawed. If an employer does not require you to maintain a particular active cert why fork out the money? I'd rather buy $200 worth of books than a worthless piece of paper. After the 30 or so exams I've passed is another really needed at that point to prove anything? My experience says no.
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I think it depends on the situation...I wouldn't call that logic flawed.
I think maintaining your own certs, out of your own time and your own pocket, makes sense for some people that are younger, and that may be changing jobs...or working their way up the corporate ladder. Or looking to eventually "outgrow" their current job and apply at a bigger company doing a bigger job than they do now.

It shows a hunger to grow and continue to educate yourself.

I never intend on going corporate, I never intend on getting another cert in my life...I will be sticking with doing what I do...just working with a colleague at a little SMB consulting firm. So I'm certainly not a cert junkie. But...just to say someones logic if flawed if they want to grow themselves and further their education and credentials on their own time and out of their own pocket...I have no problem with that. No matter what field they're in.
 
I keep my expired certs, they still count in that you have achieved the certification at some point in time. Worst case an employer will ask you about it and offer you a re-cert course courtesy of the hiring company, so then you're able to get free cert updates.


Experience for me is the most important, but having certs to back them up basically shows you as a whole package deal. Those expired certs can also help you get past HR screening when HR is simply doing key searches and have no idea when they really expire or not.
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
@matt, I'm not argueing about the technical merits of re-certifying, I'm talking about the fact that you look (at least in my opinion) like a bare minimum kind of person when you won't do some kind of training or certification unless your employer pays for it.

Having that kind of attitude towards things shows me you are only focused on money and the pursuit of it. That is not the kind of person we want to hire. We want people that are passionate about their job, not just here for the money. People that think "a job is a job" are doing the wrong thing.
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Sorry your opinion has a lot of holes in it. I used to fly laps around the country to work in Manhattan every week. While I was working myself to death (and not keeping my certs current) was I doing the "absolute minimum"? Nope. Quite the opposite in fact. Did I have time to study some unrelated technology and take a test? Nope, not remotely. I barely had any personal life at all in fact. When I finally stopped traveling and took a "desk job" I was doing 12 hour days, juggling 10-40 "emergency" pages per week, a 10pm change window for firewall rules changes 2-3 times a week, and gobs more weekend work. Was I doing the "bare minimum" then? Nope.

The point is, certs are just that, certs... they don't tell you anything more than on a particular day at a particular time you were lucky/skilled enough to pass a test that you could find 90% of the answers to on Google in 10 minutes if you aren't a total brain donor.

Personally my resume is deep enough that I don't rely on certs alone to stay employed, and even without any current certs, I managed to jump employers and get a big pay bump in the process to somewhere that does reimburse for tests, etc and I actually have enough personal time to prep for the CCIE lab again.

Like I said your logic is flawed and increasingly narrow minded it seems. Not everyone does 9-5 in a NOC waiting for OpenView to send an alert while watching cat videos on youtube everyday.
 
mattjw916 said:
The point is, certs are just that, certs... they don't tell you anything more than on a particular day at a particular time you were lucky/skilled enough to pass a test that you could find 90% of the answers to on Google in 10 minutes if you aren't a total brain donor.
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Says the guy that specifically lists all his certs in his signature. :rolleyes:

mattjw916 said:
Personally my resume is deep enough that I don't rely on certs alone to stay employed, and even without any current certs, I managed to jump employers and get a big pay bump in the process to somewhere that does reimburse for tests, etc and I actually have enough personal time to prep for the CCIE lab again.

Like I said your logic is flawed and increasingly narrow minded it seems. Not everyone does 9-5 in a NOC waiting for OpenView to send an alert while watching cat videos on youtube everyday.
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Again, you are missing my point entirely. But you sound too cynical for me to keep trying to make you see an alternate view.
 
So when logic fails just use personal attacks I guess... I've heard that copious use of "rolleyes" is often easier than actually trying to prove the point you are making. That way it makes you seem insightful without actually being insightful.

So what was your point then? Obviously your blanket statement that people who don't re-certify are just 9-to-5ers, are lazy, won't go the extra mile, etc is not accurate. I quite literally flew 105,000 miles in one year with no active Cisco certs so there goes that theory.
 
mattjw916 said:
So when logic fails just use personal attacks I guess...
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What the hell are you talking about guy?
I haven't called your views "flawed" or called you "narrow minded". Go back and re-read your own posts before you start accusing others of making personal attacks.

I have however called you cynical after tying to explain my point (which you missed twice) only to be called narrow minded.

mattjw916 said:
So what was your point then? Obviously your blanket statement that people who don't re-certify are just 9-to-5ers, are lazy, won't go the extra mile, etc is not accurate. I quite literally flew 105,000 miles in one year with no active Cisco certs so there goes that theory.
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Congratulations. But again you have MISSED MY POINT.
You haven't made statements (from what I can tell) that says you won't certify unless your employer pays for it so you don't even fall into the category that I was referring to.
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
Nothing makes you sound more entitled then when you say " I didn't do it because my employer didn't pay for it"
How cheap are you? So you won't better yourself unless someone pays you to do it? I look for people that are passionate about their field. If you get certs and attend trainings DESPITE your employer paying for it that shows me you have a thirst for knowledge and are constantly striving to know more than you do. That's the kind of person we want. Not someone that will only do something if there is money involved. That shows me you're just going to do the bare minimum if we hire you. Work your 8 hours then go home regardless if the job is done or not.
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Let's break this down. The average Cisco course runs about $4000 for 5 days of class. The tests are $200ish each. Most useful classes for senior people aren't as easy to find locally as your basic CCNA prep course so unless you live in San Jose, New York, or another tech-heavy metro area, that means you're flying (more $$$), hotel+food+local transportation ($$$), and time off to attend (yay! burning vacation days on "training", awesomesauce!!!). Even with my giant salary I find all of that pretty hard to swallow out of pocket.

So what's the alternative? Buy a couple books ($50-100 each) maybe take some courses online (INE's are $150+/month for streaming access), etc. Rack rentals can add up fast if you don't have a home lab (I spent thousands on real routers and switches over the years, most people can't afford this route) and simulators are crappy for really complex tasks. So unless you just want a "paper cert" it takes a lot of time and money to get spun up on new material effectively. And you're supposed to pull all this off while working a full time job and possibly trying to have some sort of a family life? Get real.

So what are you left with to re-certify? Exactly what I said, waste $200ish on a test you know you can pass to "update" everything without barely reading a book or touching a device. How is that demonstrating work ethic or anything else for that matter? That's not to mention as much as you "enjoy" something, eventually you get bored/burned out on it which is what happened to me after my first 15-20 exams and just let everything lapse. I was still johnny-on-the-spot at work in the meantime and have a shelf full of silly little statues to prove it.
 
mattjw916 said:
Let's break this down. The average Cisco course runs about $4000 for 5 days of class.
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Nowhere did I ever say you need to spend $4000 on a 5 day class. There are many alternatives to boot camps.

mattjw916 said:
So what's the alternative? Buy a couple books ($50-100 each) maybe take some courses online (INE's are $150+/month for streaming access), etc.
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Yes, this is one alternative

mattjw916 said:
And you're supposed to pull all this off while working a full time job and possibly trying to have some sort of a family life? Get real.
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No. But to tell an employer/interviewer (or even to have the attitude in general) that you WON'T simply because your job wouldn't pay for it makes you look cheap. It makes you look like all you are interested in is money and will jump ship as soon as another job comes along that pays better. (Again, in my opinion)
 
I'll agree with cyr0n here. My company would pay for me to finish my CCIE, but I have no desire to do so.

Why? Well, it wouldn't make any difference. My pay already increases a lot every year, I'm already one of the main guys on an advanced network that I can easily handle, and now I'm doing a lot of programming for them too / learning things outside of networking.

If you aren't doing it because someone isn't paying for it ... I also think it comes across as a poor reason. If you don't agree, compare your reason to my reasons above. The truth is, I don't find them worthy of completing and you obviously don't either ... but that doesn't mean it's not useful for many industries to keep them up to date.
 
No. But to tell an employer/interviewer (or even to have the attitude in general) that you WON'T simply because your job wouldn't pay for it makes you look cheap. It makes you look like all you are interested in is money and will jump ship as soon as another job comes along that pays better. (Again, in my opinion)
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That's right, if my employer says that my compensation is X, but I have to spend Y out of pocket in order to satisfy their "requirements" or to prove I'm not "cheap", as you so eloquently put it, then your actual compensation is X minus Y. If Y is a large enough value it's not worth it. Basic math.

Money pays the bills, and eventually for my retirement on a warm sandy beach, plus the last time I checked the senior executive management is raking it in so no, I don't feel bad about expecting to be appropriately compensated for my time and expertise. If they wanted me to be a quad-CCIE, I'd say, sure... sign me up and keep signing those expense reports... If they said, "well, we want to you to spend 10-15% of your gross income on training so we can charge other people more for your time and not increase your pay more than the inflation rate." I'd just shake my head and go elsewhere.



and CAPSLOCK MEANS I'M RIGHT!!!
 
mattjw916 said:
That's right, if my employer says that my compensation is X, but I have to spend Y out of pocket in order to satisfy their "requirements" or to prove I'm not "cheap", as you so eloquently put it, then your actual compensation is X minus Y. If Y is a large enough value it's not worth it. Basic math.
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You're in it for the money. And from the sounds of things that is your only motivation.

mattjw916 said:
and CAPSLOCK MEANS I'M RIGHT!!!
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I'm not saying you're wrong here (since no one can be right or wrong on this subject) but 2 separate people have already agreed with me in this thread.
I'm not trying to have a pissing match with you, but you seem to be offended at the very idea of my point of view.
 
You're in it for the money. And from the sounds of things that is your only motivation.
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And I suppose you're working for nothing and do it all "for the children". Come down off your cross, we need the wood.
 
mattjw916 said:
And I suppose you're working for nothing and do it all "for the children". Come down off your cross, we need the wood.
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Certainly not. However,
1) I work in the public sector
2) I work for a school district that year after year goes through budget cuts (there is no way to sell more product to make more money)
3) I have a much lower salary (by my estimates 30% or more) from similar positions in the private sector based on my certifications, experience, and skill level.

If money were my driving force I certainly wouldn't be working at a place where I know I make way less than I could make working for a large company.
But I love my job and that is worth more to me than money.

And because my job is funded with government/state/county taxes they certainly do not have tuition reimbursement or pay for certifications. So any certification I would want I would have to pay for it myself.
So if I had the attitude that I wouldn't spend one cent on training myself unless my work paid for it, I wouldn't have any certifications at all. Or have the knowledge that went with them.
 
I have a few certs CCA a few MCP, ITIL v3 and next I am getting a CCNA all these are self funded. I have over 11 years experience and have been all over the world so I do my certs for fun really but I always learn new things when doing them.
 
My point isn't that you need to collect or keep certs forever. In fact, I'm all for letting certs expire that are no longer needed but not all expired certs are valid for an old version either. While my MCSE is still good for Win2K if I let my CCNP expire it's gone...there is no older version valid CCNP. So be careful letting some things drop.

If you're at the top of your game and naming your price then no, you don't need to worry about certs most likely. But the point of this was for someone out actively searching for a job. In that case, yes, I'm going to wonder why a supposedly super Cisco guy let a CCNP expire. For one thing, it shouldn't be much work to renew it for them if they are capable of what they claim. I just took the new VMware VCP5 and I didn't study...it's a lot of what I do. That's also why I never said to go take a class and get a cert. Certs should be HEAVILY based on the things you do (assuming you have good experience). You shouldn't need a 5 day class or even a couple books to fill any gaps. Second, if you did let it expire I'm going to question your sanity as it's a lot of work to attain that. I have a CCNP and in no way do I want to do the CCNA again. Maybe one day when I no longer need to be focused on the technical side of life I'll let it go..but not now.

My other point was that you need to get and/or maintain those certs even when well employed. Things change and when you're out looking that isn't the time to go after them. If a company won't pay for a test then it's up to you. But $200 every 2 or 3 years is usually well worth the gain.
 
NetJunkie said:
That's also why I never said to go take a class and get a cert. Certs should be HEAVILY based on the things you do (assuming you have good experience). You shouldn't need a 5 day class or even a couple books to fill any gaps.
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Wat?! I was with you up until that. You're just exaggerating, right? Most certs are very broad and won't fit into a single position. For instance, when I did the NP it still had IS-IS on it. To this day, even having worked for service providers, I haven't touched IS-IS in production. The NP also had some wireless and voice on it, which are vastly different technologies for a specialized engineer. Anyway, just want to make sure none of the cert newbs get the wrong idea from your post.

Ps. The rest of this thread has been great. I hope you guys continue to go at it.
 
I'd have to agree. Granted if you do things all day every day the test you take will be much easier, but to be expected to go in and take a CCNP test cold without any studying is a bit unrealistic. No matter if you do routing and switching all day every day, there are still going to be obscure things that you just don't do or think about that you will be tested on.

Vito_Corleone said:
Ps. The rest of this thread has been great. I hope you guys continue to go at it.
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:D
 
I'm glad this thread has got legs, but I hope the disdain for certs isn't projected towards me. I do think they are valuable or I wouldn't have passed the ones I did.

That being said, I certainly have kept up-to-date on everything that has to do with my job. I attend Cisco Networkers/Live almost annually, take classes, buy books and read about new technologies frequently. I've implemented several of them where I work too, considering I designed and installed the entire WAN/LAN/Wireless/VPN/FW etc architecture where I work.

I just don't take the cert exams.

To say I am not passionate about my profession is a serious underestimation.

Now, back the regularly scheduled bickering.
 
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Valnar said:
I just don't take the cert exams.
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That's fine. There isn't anything wrong with that.

Not everyone likes the cert route. I however like to have both experience, but also have the certs to backup the experience. (Or having the experience to backup the certs depending on if you're a glass is half full or half empty kind of person :D )
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
I'd have to agree. Granted if you do things all day every day the test you take will be much easier, but to be expected to go in and take a CCNP test cold without any studying is a bit unrealistic. No matter if you do routing and switching all day every day, there are still going to be obscure things that you just don't do or think about that you will be tested on.


:D
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While true, how long does it take to cover those obscure things? You don't need a class for it. At worst it's probably $50 for a book and a week to read what you need. You don't need to ace the cert exam..just pass it.
 
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