Cellphone Carrier Legislation?

[Rich Tate]

Lawmakers are starting to take issue with the idea that expensive cell phones are locked into a particular network. This all stems from the high price of the iPhone that would be worthless if you decided to leave AT&T.

"Imagine buying a television that stopped working if you decided to switch to satellite," Wu said. "Or a toaster that died if you switched from Potomac Power to ConEd."

 

[InorganicMatter]

I like this idea...

 

[The Red]

careful what you wish for... the phone companies would feel a lot less enticed to offer new cell-phone tech and especially deeply discount it with contracts. The act of locking such multi-purpose hardware to small-minded proprietary greed-driven network associations IS a travesty... However what would you say if each of those companies stopped worrying about company-specific features to compete with other companies and just let it lay on pricey over-the-counter hardware that would be left to its own devices (no pun intended) to produce both innovation and pseudo-competitive pricing ? ... do you really want to wait for that $350 rebate on that $500 phone? ...

I recently re-upped with Sprint and got the new Samsung M610 for under $30 after giving them my old phone from which I was upgrading. Now think about purchasing an iPhone AND subbing to any network out there and the instant price of having a cell phone, considering currently monthly rates, easily triples or quadruples for that first year. And would you really keep a new phone for how much more than a year?

I like how currently we get deep discounts on hardware from providers with signed subs over the idea of 3rd party hardware full priced along with full priced service.

I, like any other person, hate to sacrifice choice, but seriously speaking, these stores have plenty of inner-choice when it comes to hardware, unless you're someone like criket or TracPhone that have limited phone choice roll-outs. But in that case they wouldn't be able to support the features of something like an iPhone anyway if you DID manage to hook it up to them..

Careful what you're asking for guys...

Remember the stories of people buying 20 tracphones a piece at retail chains and people suspecting they were terrorists?... well, they were just buying the hardware to sell in other countries where it is not discounted like it is here. Even TracPhone discounts those fugly phones while they make their real money on minuets and service fees... their pure hardware, no matter how fugly, actually costs more than you're paying for it...

 

[Jack Hammer]

Great defense of the Status Quo, there. I will note they still sell televisions, despite not being tied to a cable or satellite company.

Since I'm not interested in buying an Iphone anyway, this is a non-issue.

 

[The Tracer]

Don't like being stuck in a plan with a phone that only works on one service? Don't buy the phone. Seems like a pretty simple solution to me.

 

[amdfan25]

I like the Iphone analogy but then if you really want the Iphone do you really care about the service or having a cool toy er I mean phone?

 

[InorganicMatter]

However what would you say if each of those companies stopped worrying about company-specific features to compete with other companies and just let it lay on pricey over-the-counter hardware that would be left to its own devices (no pun intended) to produce both innovation and pseudo-competitive pricing ? ... do you really want to wait for that $350 rebate on that $500 phone? ...

Yes, that is exactly what I want. As it stands now, you aren't even given that option with the iPhone. I'm sick of these contract-subsidized phone scams. I want to walk into Frys Electronics and buy any phone I want, and then go into any service provider I want and pay for service as I go without any obligations.

 

[darkpark]

Because consumers keep submitting (by purchasing their expensive products) to the giant evil companies than those companies will continue to screw the consumer. They continue to screw us because we let them. If people were to exercise some self-control and hold off on purchasing the iphone (or any phone) than I would bet it would eventually become available with other service providers.
The same goes for the high prices of other products and services.
The bottom line is that we let ourselves get screwed. Vote with your wallet!

 

[swatbat]

Yes, that is exactly what I want. As it stands now, you aren't even given that option with the iPhone. I'm sick of these contract-subsidized phone scams. I want to walk into Frys Electronics and buy any phone I want, and then go into any service provider I want and pay for service as I go without any obligations.

Leaving the iphone out of this you can pay for service as you go for most companies. It is called a prepayed phone. Sprint, verizon, att, tmobile all support this. Guess what you already have that option.

As far as the any phone on any network that is crap. I want the networks to compete against each other. Look at how verizon and sprint are going after each other with music and tv. For it to work your way they would need to redo their networks(as the us runs off a few different standards) which would cost billions(paid for by the consumer) and would kill inovation. If the phone needs to work with anyones service you think they will be adding features trying to get your business? NO. Either that or you will be able to take the phone and loose all of the extra feature sets.

 

[Gorankar]

Much as I hate having a particular phone tied to a particular service vendor, I hate the idea of legislation regarding this even more..
If they just opened it up so there was a bit more free choice and quit, it would be one thing.. But, once the idiots in Washington or (insert state capitol here) start legislating, they don't stop til everything is screwed up beyond belief, and then they legislate some more til you just want to cry and pull your hair out.. It is pathetic really..

 

[Cored]

Much as I hate having a particular phone tied to a particular service vendor, I hate the idea of legislation regarding this even more..
If they just opened it up so there was a bit more free choice and quit, it would be one thing.. But, once the idiots in Washington or (insert state capitol here) start legislating, they don't stop til everything is screwed up beyond belief, and then they legislate some more til you just want to cry and pull your hair out.. It is pathetic really..

Funny thing is, these people are an extension of the people, so what does that say?

To me, I want cell companies to compete on service, not hardware. I would rather pay full price for a phone, have any choice of network, and choose based on service quality/features. If it takes legislation to make this happen, so be it.

And consumers voting with their wallets; they would if they didn't have that darn plastic in them!

 

[Techx]

new gimmicky products like iphone are almost like buying attention, theres a guy at my job who has one and everyone 'oohs' and 'ahhs' at it, asking him questions and wanting to see it, i could give a flying crap about the iphone especially for the ridiculous price but I can see how some people lacking self esteem would get one just to get some attention

 

[swatbat]

new gimmicky products like iphone are almost like buying attention, theres a guy at my job who has one and everyone 'oohs' and 'ahhs' at it, asking him questions and wanting to see it, i could give a flying crap about the iphone especially for the ridiculous price but I can see how some people lacking self esteem would get one just to get some attention

I know what you mean. Hell I don't give a crap untill they have one with faster data, ability to cut and paste, mp3 ringtones, sdk for developers, better exchange support, etc.

They should just sell an unlocked one for a grand and tell eveyone bitching to shut up. In the use you would only be able to use it with att or tmobile for the most part anyway.

 

[swatbat]

new gimmicky products like iphone are almost like buying attention, theres a guy at my job who has one and everyone 'oohs' and 'ahhs' at it, asking him questions and wanting to see it, i could give a flying crap about the iphone especially for the ridiculous price but I can see how some people lacking self esteem would get one just to get some attention

I know what you mean. Hell I don't give a crap untill they have one with faster data, ability to cut and paste, mp3 ringtones, sdk for developers, better exchange support, etc.

They should just sell an unlocked one for a grand and tell eveyone bitching to shut up. In the use you would only be able to use it with att or tmobile for the most part anyway.

 

[qdemn7]

If you want a particular phone buy an unlocked phone. Plenty of places sell them online. Goggle "unlocked GSM Phones" In fact Motorola sells them straight off their own website. Then all you need is a Sim card from a GSM carrier. Right now, T-Mobile is the only carrier that sells pre-paid phones without a daily use charge. You can get time for as low as 10 cents a minute. That's what I did and I'll never go back to a plan.

 

[stabilep]

Yes but what about the fact that some networks are incompatible with each other like Verizon vs. GSM. Even if it were unlocked you couldn't use an iPhone on the Verizon network right?

 

[nigerian_businessman]

I would prefer buying a phone full price and having the companies compete on service coverage, features, and price instead of who's got exclusive rights to the latest gadget. A phone is a tool, not a fashion accessory. I think separating phones from service would drive the overall costs of service down.

 

[Tolyngee]

I recently re-upped with Sprint and got the new Samsung M610 for under $30 after giving them my old phone from which I was upgrading. Now think about purchasing an iPhone AND subbing to any network out there and the instant price of having a cell phone, considering currently monthly rates, easily triples or quadruples for that first year. And would you really keep a new phone for how much more than a year?

Why do people need a new phone? I've had two carriers in my cell phone life, Sprint and Tracfone. Both times I got a free phone. My Sprint phone lasted me my entire time with them (five years), and I think my Tracfone will be the same...

Frankly, if you need a phone that lets you take your pr0n with you wherever you go, perhaps it should cost you a little extra dough?

Remember the stories of people buying 20 tracphones a piece at retail chains and people suspecting they were terrorists?... well, they were just buying the hardware to sell in other countries where it is not discounted like it is here. Even TracPhone discounts those fugly phones while they make their real money on minuets and service fees... their pure hardware, no matter how fugly, actually costs more than you're paying for it...

Not sure what you are talking about here... With Sprint, the cheapest they would offer me is ~$35/month... The bare minimum plan you can get with Sprint, something like 20m/month, is still $20 IIRC. A buck a minute! With tracfone, I am forking over ~$5/month... Tracfone is an ~83% cost-reduction for myself. Where are they making all this dough on "minutes and service fees?"


Then again, the only priority to me with a cell phone is that it functions as a pager/phone, nothing more... Perhaps I am in the vast minority here...

 

[Mohonri]

darkpark hit the nail on the head. The reason the phone networks get away with such anti-consumer practices is because consumers are letting them do it. Like he said, vote with your wallet. That's the only thing that will make a difference. If phone companies see that a large number of people want more freedom, better features, faster networks, etc, and that those people are willing to pay for it, they will provide it. It all really boils down to supply and demand. Increase the demand, and the supply will follow.

 

[swatbat]

darkpark hit the nail on the head. The reason the phone networks get away with such anti-consumer practices is because consumers are letting them do it. Like he said, vote with your wallet. That's the only thing that will make a difference. If phone companies see that a large number of people want more freedom, better features, faster networks, etc, and that those people are willing to pay for it, they will provide it. It all really boils down to supply and demand. Increase the demand, and the supply will follow.

Phone companies are responding with better features and faster networks. Verizon just finished upping its evdo network to the a standard. Sprint and verizon are already testing the B stanard and will be converting to it soon. The better features you speak of are ones that end up many times being provider specific which means special phones or programming.

Right now verizon and sprint offer music(hell sprint has streaming music), tv, internet, etc. Shit load of features for a phone. All of this requires the better network which is one reason they are pushing their evdo. Hell the evdo c spec that will be out in a few years is nuts. They call it UMB. Data speeds are listed as over 275 Mbit/s downstream and over 75 Mbit/s upstream. Mind you this is a few years off but it is real interesting to see what they are working on.

 

[Silentbob343]

I thought carriers already had to unlock a phone if request by the customer? I know T-Mobile does this.

 

[theDreamer]

I thought carriers already had to unlock a phone if request by the customer? I know T-Mobile does this.

They do, but they can also charge you for it.
It also comes down to limiting features to only work on X phone when connected to Y network.

 

[ManicMachine]

Great defense of the Status Quo, there. I will note they still sell televisions, despite not being tied to a cable or satellite company.

Since I'm not interested in buying an Iphone anyway, this is a non-issue.

But that TV can work on cable or satellite.... not all phones can work on verizon and at&t

Carriers and cell phone manufacturers both profit from exclusive deals.

Cell phone manufacturers can choose to design a phone specifically to take advantage of the features one carrier offers. And the Carrier can benefit from having a third party producing a quality product for their network as a draw to it.


If I thought I could take an unlocked iPhone and use it on my Verizon PDA/Smartphone plan I would love it... but guess what? I can't, no matter how much legislation is passed.

 

[SamuraiInBlack]

What would be nice is if the cellphone companies AND the carriers stopped nickel and diming us in one respect while giving us the 'priveledge' of having other features for free or for only a smaller fee.

I'm on Sprint now, and for me to have a music ringtone on my phone my options are to:
1. Dink around with software to get music from my PC converted into a ringtone format for it
2. Buy a ringtone for $3 or more and have it renewed for $3 every 90 days.

Yet my friends who are with T-Mobile can put any music ringtone on their phones that they want. Why do I have to go through this much trouble to do something that people can do on another carrier with ease?

I have to pay $10 for unlimited texting and another $15 for net on my phone. My friend on T-Mobile pays like $10 for unlimited texting AND unlimited net for his phone. Why?

When I was on Verizon I could do voice calls from my phone for free. I just had to program my phone to do it. On Sprint it's a service I have to pay money for. Why?

Awhile back when a friend of mine got his Razr on his carrier, I don't remember what it was exactly, but he was pissed that he couldn't do something on his carrier without being charged money, while some other carrier allowed him to do it for free. The only reason he didn't go with the other carrier was because their service sucked in his area.

This is the crap that pisses me off with cellphones. I think that we shouldn't have to be forced to go with certain carriers just because they have certain things that we value higher than others. I don't think we should have to go with a carrier that's going to give us the things we want for free or at a smaller fee than what some other company will. I think that the carriers need to be competitive all across the board, not just where they feel like shining over the others.

 

[InorganicMatter]

Leaving the iphone out of this you can pay for service as you go for most companies. It is called a prepayed phone. Sprint, verizon, att, tmobile all support this. Guess what you already have that option.

No, don't leave the iPhone out of this. I want to buy an iPhone from Fry's for $500, and I want to either put it on Sprint's SERO plan for $30/month, or pay-as-I-go with T-Mobile.

And as far as the networks competing, they still compete with this legislature. They'll just have to start lowering plan prices, offering more minutes/texts/bandwidth, and stop nickel-and-diming us for things. They've got plenty of fields to compete on, and hardware is one of the fields that software and service companies have never competed well on (see: Macbook Pro).

Additionally, by separating the two out, we also introduce a new playing field for competition and that is the hardware. If the hardware was interoperable, you can bet that the iPhone wouldn't cost no fragging $500. If Apple truly had to compete with Samsung, Motorola, and HTC, instead of being given a free exclusive ride on AT&T, prices on all the hardware would be much lower.

I say separate them; let the service providers compete on plans and the hardware providers compete on technology. What we end up with is better hardware and better plans at cheaper prices. Under the current system, the carriers are motivated to keep hardware prices artificially high with the excuse of contract subsidization (which is total BS, and a topic you could write a book of rants on).

 

[swatbat]

No, don't leave the iPhone out of this. I want to buy an iPhone from Fry's for $500, and I want to either put it on Sprint's SERO plan for $30/month, or pay-as-I-go with T-Mobile.

And as far as the networks competing, they still compete with this legislature. They'll just have to start lowering plan prices, offering more minutes/texts/bandwidth, and stop nickel-and-diming us for things. They've got plenty of fields to compete on, and hardware is one of the fields that software and service companies have never competed well on (see: Macbook Pro).

Additionally, by separating the two out, we also introduce a new playing field for competition and that is the hardware. If the hardware was interoperable, you can bet that the iPhone wouldn't cost no fragging $500. If Apple truly had to compete with Samsung, Motorola, and HTC, instead of being given a free exclusive ride on AT&T, prices on all the hardware would be much lower.

I say separate them; let the service providers compete on plans and the hardware providers compete on technology. What we end up with is better hardware and better plans at cheaper prices. Under the current system, the carriers are motivated to keep hardware prices artificially high with the excuse of contract subsidization (which is total BS, and a topic you could write a book of rants on).

Let me ask you this. How much money would it cost for everyone to agree on a single standard then use it? Couple billion? Yea prices would go up not down. Also how do you handle new features? IE the iphones way of handling voice mail? Get everyone to agree on the new standard? Not going to happen.

Also all of the phones in the US could be GSM, the iphone would still be as expensive as it is. Apple is getting a kick back on the service for that phone(at least it has been said). Chances are it would be more expensive.

 

[InorganicMatter]

Let me ask you this. How much money would it cost for everyone to agree on a single standard then use it? Couple billion? Yea prices would go up not down. Also how do you handle new features? IE the iphones way of handling voice mail? Get everyone to agree on the new standard? Not going to happen.

Also all of the phones in the US could be GSM, the iphone would still be as expensive as it is. Apple is getting a kick back on the service for that phone(at least it has been said). Chances are it would be more expensive.

You know, a lot of times, the only technology has to die for the new and better standards to make way. Kind of like the car companies, or the energy companies.

 

[ikjadoon]

I don't want to butt in too much here, but can't you unlock any phone, basically, online? Maybe not the very newest phones (i.e., the iPhone), but a majority of them. Sure, it might cost you a few bucks, but "few" is the key word here. I can unlock my W810i for free via Cingular (3 month wait after purchase, then you can just ask for it) or pay Da Vinci like 10-15 bucks and get it unlocked. You usually don't need anything more than the regular cable that comes with your phone.



I know legislation is trying to make so that it is already unlocked, but if you really need to get off the carrier you bought it, it shouldn't be THAT much of a hassle. Most big cities even have mobile phone shops where they will unlock it for you for even less. If you're friends with the guy, he might even do it for free.

~Ibrahim~