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CellFactor: Revolutions - Coming this Winter

M

MrNasty

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
221
linky

So AS finally decided to buckle up and release it this year rather than next - new features sound cool.

Question is in its final form as a retail product will it be physX only, or be able to run without it?
 
MrNasty said:
Question is in its final form as a retail product will it be physX only, or be able to run without it?
Click to expand...
LOL. You think there will ever be a game that requires a PhysX card?
 
pxc said:
LOL. You think there will ever be a game that requires a PhysX card?
Click to expand...

Yeah, why not? There are games that require their own controllers are there not? Flight simulators need a small cluster to run on. If the game's sponsored by Ageia then does it matter?

As it turns out CF:R won't need a PhysX processor - they will have different content for non-PhysX enabled systems.

But look, go and add this line to cellfactor's shortcut: PhysXHardwareCloth=false

Now run Cellfactor and see how fast it goes... I get maybe 1 fps tops when the cloth's moving without my card enabled.
 
MrNasty said:
Yeah, why not? There are games that require their own controllers are there not? Flight simulators need a small cluster to run on. If the game's sponsored by Ageia then does it matter?

As it turns out CF:R won't need a PhysX processor - they will have different content for non-PhysX enabled systems.
Click to expand...
"why not?" It's an impossibility for them to recover development costs if they required PhysX hardware due to the very tiny installed base and "$20" price. But the PhysX SDK license does provide a huge carrot for even minimal hardware support: waiving the $50,000 commercial license fee, which may be why we're seeing such lame hardware support so far.

If Ageia is paying for development costs or helping with development there may be a shift towards heavier content. I just don't see it being a PhysX hardware only game unless it's bundled with a card. The game demo just wasn't very good (ignoring the bugs) even though it ran acceptably without a PhysX card. Good luck to them, but it seems like a 1 trick pony. Don't be surprised by mediocre reviews if/when the game comes out.

Games that require their own controllers (e.g. light guns, dance pads, etc) are relatively cheap accessories, not $250-$300 parts. If a FS requires a cluster, it's likely for a hard core enthusiast (0.00001%) or professional training.

Software cloth wasn't in the current PhysX driver/library, and neither was the terribly unrealistic blood. The rest of the game runs fine in software mode. There's an older thread with performance numbers if you want to search for it. I found that the software PhysX library was only using about 50% CPU utilization max on one core.
 
I'm not an expert on threaded applications, but thats just more evidence that you need a PPU. the 50% utilization is due to the fact that the core completed the calculation before the other core completed its calculation. Because of the way the dual core cpu works, it can only load (and unload) 2 calculations at a time, wich makes the physics calculations only load the core about 20%-50%
 
pxc said:
Software cloth wasn't in the current PhysX driver/library, and neither was the terribly unrealistic blood. The rest of the game runs fine in software mode. There's an older thread with performance numbers if you want to search for it. I found that the software PhysX library was only using about 50% CPU utilization max on one core.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I also have 1000fps in CPU mode when I'm not moving.. :rolleyes: So, yeah it will be clearer next time :D
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1029534833&postcount=137
 
pxc said:
Software cloth wasn't in the current PhysX driver/library, and neither was the terribly unrealistic blood. The rest of the game runs fine in software mode. There's an older thread with performance numbers if you want to search for it. I found that the software PhysX library was only using about 50% CPU utilization max on one core.
Click to expand...

You have a fair point with the requiring the PPU points you make and to be entirely fair any showcase of the PPU's capabilities should also run without one so a full comparison should be made - something that's just not "there" at the moment.

As to cloths - beta cloth code is in the 2.4.9cf api but no fluids at the moment.

2.4.2/3 should me multi-threaded according to Ageia but I think the game developers have to implement multiple thread management in their engine as well for it to work - otherwise the engine has no way of offloading the physics thread onto the other core.
 
4x as many interactive objects as cf:ct.
fully destructible architecture.
16 player online support.
slated for winter 06.

folks, i do believe the long awaited killer app is coming :cool: .now all we need is a price drop on the physx card and a few more killer apps :D .lets just hope ut2007 turns out to be one of them.
 
RAMMAN said:
4x as many interactive objects as cf:ct.
fully destructible architecture.
16 player online support.
slated for winter 06.

folks, i do believe the long awaited killer app is coming :cool: .now all we need is a price drop on the physx card and a few more killer apps :D .lets just hope ut2007 turns out to be one of them.
Click to expand...

Have you played cellfactor for more than a couple hours? A killer app is going to require a bit more depth.
 
eastvillager said:
Have you played cellfactor for more than a couple hours? A killer app is going to require a bit more depth.
Click to expand...

CF:R is slated to be an FPS RPG - need any more depth than that?

That said time will tell whether the actual game is any good, but at least you know it's going to be pretty :)
 
CellFactor have Mod tools included. There's a reality buider in it. So you could mod scriping. New maps in it. Or some new content.

So if moding take up with the Cellfactor demo. A CS. Physics version.
Or a CF:Graw mod. Or a CF: AA mod.

It uses C# as a script engine. At the moment I only now some C++ stuff Directx related. But C# is new for me.

I have Visual Studio express versions here.

CF demo is limited but could be more if the community picks it up as a modable engine.
 
Don't get me wrong, I think realistic Physics is the future of games. Games where you blow up a support and the whole left side of the building comes down. Or You toss a nade into the air and when it goes off the shrapnel shoots through the air. But right now it's a joke, Terra's bitching is well placed for the most part, it's all eye candy, so all these new "FX" style cards are well suited for what we have now.

PhysX PPU has a lot more promise and hopefully more and more games will see that eye candy is not worth an extra $300. If more and more games come out with this BS eye candy physics we will never see this tech take off.
 
eastvillager said:
Have you played cellfactor for more than a couple hours? A killer app is going to require a bit more depth.
Click to expand...

your right, cf:r just needs a good 10 hour+ single player campaign.
 
RAMMAN said:
your right, cf:r just needs a good 10 hour+ single player campaign.
Click to expand...

Yeah just look at Counterstrike, that storyline is really deep *chough* :rolleyes:

As for the bandwith issue, as we speak 20/20mbit is beeing installed in my local area...I wonder how much bandwith more CellFactor would require for online physcis gameplay?

Terra - I liked the ~24 hours I got in Cellfactor with my PhysX, before my CPU/Mobo died of old age....long time since I had so much fun..doing "nothing" ;)
 
A problem for Gameplay Physics is the more bandwidth need. Sure some have the luxory of having a 24mb dow stream. But Game devs and mostly there Publisher would reach with there produckt a large audience. Wich means the masses with economical bandwith. on mainstream ADSL 1 or cable
Dev have a problem with Physics if online play is a Key feature they must dump gameplay Physics. And just take the eyecandy.
So forget all Pure Online frag fest games they would use only eyecandy Physics.
If your lucky they could implement some Heavy maps with Gameplay Physics.

UT2007 is such online focused game. So guess what? No gameplay Physics. Why, its Key feature is online. And that collide With gameplay Physics.

Because 24mb ADSL2 isn't common, more rare.

But game wich are more Single player oriented are the ones that can put Gameplay Physics on top. As a Key feature. And drop Mplay. Because its'more secondairy or don't fits the gameplay style.

Like Cell actor is aimed at Lan gaming. that where bandwidth isn't a problem. And the amount of player is low. 4 to 8 is enough. So you make a gameplay that fits those requierments. Also a single Player mode need a lot of atention.
 
SuperGee said:
A problem for Gameplay Physics is the more bandwidth need. Sure some have the luxory of having a 24mb dow stream. But Game devs and mostly there Publisher would reach with there produckt a large audience. Wich means the masses with economical bandwith. on mainstream ADSL 1 or cable
Dev have a problem with Physics if online play is a Key feature they must dump gameplay Physics. And just take the eyecandy.
So forget all Pure Online frag fest games they would use only eyecandy Physics.
If your lucky they could implement some Heavy maps with Gameplay Physics.

UT2007 is such online focused game. So guess what? No gameplay Physics. Why, its Key feature is online. And that collide With gameplay Physics.

Because 24mb ADSL2 isn't common, more rare.

But game wich are more Single player oriented are the ones that can put Gameplay Physics on top. As a Key feature. And drop Mplay. Because its'more secondairy or don't fits the gameplay style.

Like Cell actor is aimed at Lan gaming. that where bandwidth isn't a problem. And the amount of player is low. 4 to 8 is enough. So you make a gameplay that fits those requierments. Also a single Player mode need a lot of atention.
Click to expand...

All of Denmark are getting 100/100Mbit fiber in the comming years.
Sweden too...

Terra - Perhaps the US should catch up? :p ;)
 
trust me, ut2007 will decide the fate of physx. i have one, and i love it. you've seen all the trailers and stuff, so you know what it can do. physics are the future, my friends.
 
Not many people are saying it isn't the future just most of us are saying Ageia isn't the part of that future. We know we are going to need ppu hardware acceleration it's just most believe that Nvidia/ATI's solution will be suffice compared to the overpriced solution from Ageia.

Also it's not about how much bandwidth you have Terra it's about your ping time. If 1 guy is 1 second slower then everybody for 1 second then any particle interaction he gets is going to be totally different then what everybody else got.
 
you do realize that being a second beind is a ping of over 1000 m/s.

logistically for a true physics experience actions and interactions could NOT be based on the time it was recieved by the client. If I fire a shot, and your PPU doesnt account for it untill you recieve it, accuracy would not exist.

People need to forget about the idea that things will happen out of order based on your ping.

The real issue will be a lag, where the player is out of synch or behind in data flow (in wich they will need to catch up.) I have no idea how cell factor will handle lag, but I can tell you the result will not be interactions getting out of order. More likely the player would freeze or die, or just get kicked from the game.
 
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