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CD Purchase Gap Not Filled By Music Downloads
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
You sir, are correct.
Gonna agree there, too. But add in that buying music, especially in my twenties shouldn't be so stressful...I'm their prime demographics as I have a variety of taste and money to burn on tunes.
My pops said he never had this much tension around buying records.. And a few other older friends and family said the same about records and tapes. They just hoped down to the record store, picked up what they wanted, and tuned in for as long as they wanted to enjoy the music. Heck, I remember it like that for tapes and some records..
What device will work with which service? Will I be limited to where I can listen to my legally purchased music? How many times can I listen to the song before it's "license" is up? How many times can I move the music before I'm breaking a contract? Will I be considered a criminal for making a dub? Can I even make compilations?
That's just wrong.
I think that sums it up the most. Instead of buying 2-5 CD's a month I'm buying 2-5 SONGS a month, as there usually aren't more than 1 or 2 good songs on any given CD. NIN even realeased their new CD on Pirate Bay on their own, knowing it was going to end up there anyways. Artists need to put out more GOOD songs or actually work for their money and tour.
http://www.slyck.com/story1461.html
HAHAHAHAHA! That is the best pirate reasoning I've heard in a long time. Thanks for that, bud; today has been an Electrolux of suckage and that nearly makes up for it.
Spot on.
Pardon me a moment while I twist an old song in bitter jest...
"He can see cleeeeaaaarly now, the muuuuuuusic's gone."
*sigh* Thank God for decent music from the past...looks like the slump has yet to break.
/sarcasm on: Thanks also in part to the American Idol 'fans', er suckers, er idiots, er...nm. Keep enjoying your corporate schlock-tossings. /sarcasm off.
I wouldn't go that far. That'd imply that radio was taking chances in the 80's and they weren't. MTV took chances and radio followed their lead, but by the end of the 80's MTV was, for the most part, just another CHR outlet. We all like to think Radio was good when were teens, but the reality is that it's sucked for the better part of 25 years....maybe longer. About the only time I can think of in recent history where it was interesting, was when grunge first happened, and tha'ts mostly because all the suits didn't know what the hell to do when music tastes changed virtually overnight.
By the mid-90's they'd figured it out and radio became boring once again (at least Rock radio did).
Good point by nilepez IMO. To be honest, the music industry and radio was never any better than it is today, except for short periods and due to special circumstances. One example would be Motown and the work they did to promote black artist during an era when radio and the music business was very white indeed. Same thing within jazz of course and the emergence of be-bop for instance. Apart from anomalies like those, radio and the business at large has gone the safe route, promoting the artists with the best chance of turning a big profit. Nothing new there at all.
The difference today is that radio is no longer such an important source for finding out about music, nor are the brick-and-mortar record shops such an important source for buying it. There's internet radio, giving you free access to every genre under the sun and as soon as someone bought something, it can be found on the net within the hour. Sure, I agree with those who say that today's music suck big hairy monkey balls, but that's not really new either though, is it?
I think Dot Zen and his pops has a good point about the tension around music today. Am I breaking the law by downloading this? Will this file play in my player and if so, how many times? Will this CD work in my player, or will the copy protection bugger it up completely? Am I allowed to burn a copy for use in the car? None of that crap should be an issue for fuck's sake! Music is intended to provide people pleasure, enjoyment, relaxation, even extacy - and the current climate is anathema to all of those. There's nothing wrong with politics in music, but making politics out of music is just wrong, wrong, wrong!
However, there also zero doubt that we no longer have the morality of earlier generations today. We generally couldn't care less if sharing and downloading is wrong, just as long as the chance of getting caught is close to nil. Stealing is ok and we "all" do it: music, programs, movies - if it can be stolen via broadband, we'll steal it. Me included of course. In conclusion I think exclusively blaming the music business and music being "crap" for the state of affairs is pretty damn naive; there's a hell of a lot more to it than that. The world and society is changing rapidly and with it our concepts of morality and most other things. The music companies know it, they just don't know what to do about it - and when fear and doubt assail them they do what most of us do; blame everyone and everything else. A perfectly human reaction, but one which may well spell final doom for them. I guess we'll all see where it ends in 5-10 years, if we're still around.
In the meantime I'm buying lots of vinyl, mostly by long-dead artists.
Agrippa
The difference today is that radio is no longer such an important source for finding out about music, nor are the brick-and-mortar record shops such an important source for buying it. There's internet radio, giving you free access to every genre under the sun and as soon as someone bought something, it can be found on the net within the hour. Sure, I agree with those who say that today's music suck big hairy monkey balls, but that's not really new either though, is it?
I think Dot Zen and his pops has a good point about the tension around music today. Am I breaking the law by downloading this? Will this file play in my player and if so, how many times? Will this CD work in my player, or will the copy protection bugger it up completely? Am I allowed to burn a copy for use in the car? None of that crap should be an issue for fuck's sake! Music is intended to provide people pleasure, enjoyment, relaxation, even extacy - and the current climate is anathema to all of those. There's nothing wrong with politics in music, but making politics out of music is just wrong, wrong, wrong!
However, there also zero doubt that we no longer have the morality of earlier generations today. We generally couldn't care less if sharing and downloading is wrong, just as long as the chance of getting caught is close to nil. Stealing is ok and we "all" do it: music, programs, movies - if it can be stolen via broadband, we'll steal it. Me included of course. In conclusion I think exclusively blaming the music business and music being "crap" for the state of affairs is pretty damn naive; there's a hell of a lot more to it than that. The world and society is changing rapidly and with it our concepts of morality and most other things. The music companies know it, they just don't know what to do about it - and when fear and doubt assail them they do what most of us do; blame everyone and everything else. A perfectly human reaction, but one which may well spell final doom for them. I guess we'll all see where it ends in 5-10 years, if we're still around.
In the meantime I'm buying lots of vinyl, mostly by long-dead artists.
Agrippa
Exactly!!! Those companies that the RIAA represent are so reliant upon whatever formula it is they devised (God only knows) how many years ago, are FINALLY seeing the true rewards of that given formula.
When you try to "direct" art, you completely FAIL TO PRODUCE further original works. Hence the "art" dies (at least from their corporate standpoint). Stop trying to MAKE a fucking band and HIRE (read as: sign) or promote the REAL talent that's existed in the bars/clubs for years.
Too damned much direction (read as: jealousy) of another label's success with a certain band/genre DOES NOT mean you're going to be allowed by the public to leach off of them (meaning that individual band's success) by *attempting* to produce your own clone.
How many "clone bands" did we have in the 60-70's, or even early 80's??
Almost nil. The closest that I can think off offhand is the very late 80's, where the big-hair bands took off. (eg: danger danger, pretty boy floyd, etc.). Then came the "boy-bands" taking hold, and it seems that at that point is when the music industry got WAY greedy.
Let's see.... New kids on my *ock, backdoor boys, etc. Yeah. I'd say that's when they REALLY latched onto some twisted "formula" for music. Albeit, however wrong that formula has proven to be (biting them square in the ass some years later). They attempted to take the formula they learned at that point, and subsequently, rape every other genre since with their version of whatever's hot at the moment.
EG: 5 coldplay clones, 15 PYT pop clones, 10 country duos, etc etc ad nauseum.
(Record Label vs Label vs Label vs Label....) Genre be damned. Listener's be damned.
ART be damned. When you add all this up, MUSIC INDUSTRY be damned.
Fortunately though, **not** music itself. Art will always find a way to survive.
For those that ARE musicians and/or those who create original music (that's not an emulation of a current artist), I will continue to FULLY support you. Both via word of mouth, as well as with my hard earned dollar. Continue to have faith that this WILL come full circle, and that you will thrive in a manner looooooooooong since forgotten by the corporate world (or perhaps never even known by them). Creativity (especially in music form) has ALWAYS had, and always WILL have a place in society. And it's appreciated.
These financial pimps are just getting their due rewards IMO.
/rant off
/OT Now if we could only find a way to start getting rid of corrupt/inept politicians in a similar manner... /end OT
QFT.
Fair Use = MY USE on MY MEDIA, on MY DEVICES, as long as it's not making a profit, nor being redistributed. PERIOD.
No limits, no strings, no harm and no foul. I paid for every item in that foodchain, I'll damn well listen to it as I want to, and in whatever form.
The RIAA and corporate music can rot in hell.
and they will. apparently they have decided not to adapt. and we know what happens when you dont adapt. i guess they dont want the EXTREMELY easy profits available profits available on the internet. i mean damn, all you have to do is ost music files for whatever artists send them to you. it doesnt matter whether they sell 1 or 1000000 copies, it costs you pennies either way. again, fire the top brass and hire people who have a fuckin clue.
BoogerBomb
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Lost power 3 times in storms that lat few days and ended up getting a new IP so 0 ink right now. Which sucks cause the other one I had has 100%.
I love it. It's like when people say "what's wrong with kids today," they don't get how unoriginal they are and how little attention they paid to things when they were there.
The formula dying on them is the retail forumla, not the method of producing the product. The last time this happened was the shift from singles to albums. THe methodd of producing product got kicked in the nads by marketing and information technology. Too much info and no way to filter it.
They do that. It's called A&R, and has been the formula for quite some time along with the manufactured act. Ever stop to think that the state of music sucks because what's going on in the local scene sucks? The turth is A&R guys ALWAYS sucked at finding that gem in the vast ocean of crap that is the local scene. What has changed is the state of radio. Nothing is locally owned anymore. So except for college radio, you aren't getting heard unless the A&R types already decided your area is where the happening scene is. College radio is run by a very narrow demographic, and pretty much plays by a specific formula. You might never have heard half the stuff on it, but it doesn't mean they are any better at finding something that is good.
Back when radio was still a highly variable medium, the 4th, 5th etc. A&R guy to hit a happening area KNEW they were going to wind up with crap unless it was a real hotbed of talent. They'd look someplace else based on someone else's legwork. Problem is there's nobody doing it for them anymore. The media that WAS doing it has been co-opted by the sales side of the house. Which basically leaves random chance, the slushpile, and the internet. That's work, and A&R guys don't like real work.
Heck, it reminds me of disco right now, except on fast forward for trends feeling burnt out.
This is where you amuse the hell out of me. You had TONS of clone bands. ALWAYS.
How many bands were tyring to be the beatles? How many were trying to be led zepplin? How many bands were tyring to be duran duran? How many horses were in the race that madonna won? Hell, even as recently with the seattle scene, you probably don't remember the 27 other grunge bands that got signed besides Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden. Hell, bands migrated to seattle to be signed because the A&R guys were being so lazy.
You don't REMEMBER the clones from the 60s-80s and the industry doesn't help you because they don't bother re-issuing back catalog that sucks and doesn't sell.
Like I said, some imagingin that there was great art and no bad business before is just selective recollection or complete lack of awareness. The only thing that changed was that the means of marketing your finds narrowed greatly with deregulation of radio, no competitor to MTV, and MTV severely curtailing how much they play videos. Add to that the advent of the internet, which at the time was only helping the audience become jaded to a new scene at light speed rather than finding good talent wherever it existed. And you have the labels hopping on trends, exploiting them, and and playing them to death so quickly that you can't stay interested.
What you are noticing is not that music suddenly got screwed over by the business side of the music business, but that the business side always sucked and now that they are dominating both the aquisition side and the distribution side, you can see CLEARLY that they don't kow what makes something good.
Madonna, Cyndi lauper, tiffany, and the 5 or 6 others. Lynyrd skynyrd, molly hatchet, etc. Hell, ALL of disco and ALL of new wave. Zeppelin, the Stones, the beatles.. they all had contemporary knock-offs out the hoo-ha. Hell, I might even blame a larg echunk of it on how fast the people who need to feel cool and obscure can trash a scene as uncool with the help of the internet. There's zero attention span.
Howabout just supporting those that are GOOD, rather than requiring original sounds. Heck, I still buy albums from never-was bands interested in a didn't quite happen sound that I like and they still feel compelled to make.
I too would say that the music industry is getting their just rewards. But not for how they find bands but for how they have tried to fleece the consumer. I don't want to pick from 4 bands, I don't want to listen to the same 18 songs over and over on the radio. I don't feel like having you go out of your way to prevent me form putting the music I DO buy in spite of your efforts onto the device of my choosing. I DO find it increadibly annoying that you make an effort to shut down a market selling something YOU won't despite people being quite willing to pay for availability and quality the industry could provide very easily.
Heck I wouldn't even be that pissed off if the "internet" and all it's technology were any good at finding music that wasn't crap. Short of listening to jillions of hours of crap streaming radio, or using some half-ass fuzzy logic music recomending flash doohickey that doesn't work, it hasn't really done much or been very good at fixing the problem.
/rant off
/OT Now if we could only find a way to start getting rid of corrupt/inept politicians in a similar manner... /end OT[/QUOTE]
The formula dying on them is the retail forumla, not the method of producing the product. The last time this happened was the shift from singles to albums. THe methodd of producing product got kicked in the nads by marketing and information technology. Too much info and no way to filter it.
They do that. It's called A&R, and has been the formula for quite some time along with the manufactured act. Ever stop to think that the state of music sucks because what's going on in the local scene sucks? The turth is A&R guys ALWAYS sucked at finding that gem in the vast ocean of crap that is the local scene. What has changed is the state of radio. Nothing is locally owned anymore. So except for college radio, you aren't getting heard unless the A&R types already decided your area is where the happening scene is. College radio is run by a very narrow demographic, and pretty much plays by a specific formula. You might never have heard half the stuff on it, but it doesn't mean they are any better at finding something that is good.
Back when radio was still a highly variable medium, the 4th, 5th etc. A&R guy to hit a happening area KNEW they were going to wind up with crap unless it was a real hotbed of talent. They'd look someplace else based on someone else's legwork. Problem is there's nobody doing it for them anymore. The media that WAS doing it has been co-opted by the sales side of the house. Which basically leaves random chance, the slushpile, and the internet. That's work, and A&R guys don't like real work.
Heck, it reminds me of disco right now, except on fast forward for trends feeling burnt out.
This is where you amuse the hell out of me. You had TONS of clone bands. ALWAYS.
How many bands were tyring to be the beatles? How many were trying to be led zepplin? How many bands were tyring to be duran duran? How many horses were in the race that madonna won? Hell, even as recently with the seattle scene, you probably don't remember the 27 other grunge bands that got signed besides Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden. Hell, bands migrated to seattle to be signed because the A&R guys were being so lazy.
You don't REMEMBER the clones from the 60s-80s and the industry doesn't help you because they don't bother re-issuing back catalog that sucks and doesn't sell.
Let's see.... New kids on my *ock, backdoor boys, etc. Yeah. I'd say that's when they REALLY latched onto some twisted "formula" for music. Albeit, however wrong that formula has proven to be (biting them square in the ass some years later). They attempted to take the formula they learned at that point, and subsequently, rape every other genre since with their version of whatever's hot at the moment.
Like I said, some imagingin that there was great art and no bad business before is just selective recollection or complete lack of awareness. The only thing that changed was that the means of marketing your finds narrowed greatly with deregulation of radio, no competitor to MTV, and MTV severely curtailing how much they play videos. Add to that the advent of the internet, which at the time was only helping the audience become jaded to a new scene at light speed rather than finding good talent wherever it existed. And you have the labels hopping on trends, exploiting them, and and playing them to death so quickly that you can't stay interested.
What you are noticing is not that music suddenly got screwed over by the business side of the music business, but that the business side always sucked and now that they are dominating both the aquisition side and the distribution side, you can see CLEARLY that they don't kow what makes something good.
Madonna, Cyndi lauper, tiffany, and the 5 or 6 others. Lynyrd skynyrd, molly hatchet, etc. Hell, ALL of disco and ALL of new wave. Zeppelin, the Stones, the beatles.. they all had contemporary knock-offs out the hoo-ha. Hell, I might even blame a larg echunk of it on how fast the people who need to feel cool and obscure can trash a scene as uncool with the help of the internet. There's zero attention span.
Howabout just supporting those that are GOOD, rather than requiring original sounds. Heck, I still buy albums from never-was bands interested in a didn't quite happen sound that I like and they still feel compelled to make.
I too would say that the music industry is getting their just rewards. But not for how they find bands but for how they have tried to fleece the consumer. I don't want to pick from 4 bands, I don't want to listen to the same 18 songs over and over on the radio. I don't feel like having you go out of your way to prevent me form putting the music I DO buy in spite of your efforts onto the device of my choosing. I DO find it increadibly annoying that you make an effort to shut down a market selling something YOU won't despite people being quite willing to pay for availability and quality the industry could provide very easily.
Heck I wouldn't even be that pissed off if the "internet" and all it's technology were any good at finding music that wasn't crap. Short of listening to jillions of hours of crap streaming radio, or using some half-ass fuzzy logic music recomending flash doohickey that doesn't work, it hasn't really done much or been very good at fixing the problem.
/rant off
/OT Now if we could only find a way to start getting rid of corrupt/inept politicians in a similar manner... /end OT
[/QUOTE]lol.. true to some degree
I disagree. It's the method of producing the product that's dying. And IMO, with good reason. Bands shouldn't be made. They should be found (as you mention below). But the mass media has changed to "it's easier to make them" as opposed to finding them. If it wasn't, American Idol wouldn't be a hit, nor would "Making the Band" (albeit short-lived) -hell even that was an attempted clone to cash in and feed off the Amercian Idol "leftovers" (audience not captured by American Idol).
I'm quite familiar with Artist & Repertoire. Learned about them way before most do. When I was about 8 years old, I had a friend who had immediate family in RCA's A&R dept. So I used to get all the free leftovers he didn't want. That was what actually hooked me on checking out all the "unheard of" folks that had killer music.
"What has changed is the state of radio." I agree. The same few companies own 90%+ of the stations in the nation it seems. Clear Channel Communitcations, so they're all the same. Only the genre, commercials, and personalities really change. The same songs get repeated, over and over...Every aspect is formatted, nothing left for the dj to show any freedom of choice, barring perhaps a single 2-3 hour slot on some "deserted" weekend hour (if you're lucky).
But *never* during prime time, when most listen. It's all science and formula now, vs originality.
I definately agree, everything's become such a "rush for the next big thing" that no one even has time to fully appreciate what the current "artist" has to offer. A&R is a joke. They have cattle calls of the artists coming TO them more than ever before. Kinda puts A&R out of a job to start with doesn't it? Sadly, that only leaves the (generally) musically uninformed suits to make the decision of what will sell the most. Not who has actual talent. "We can put the talent behind them later...as long as we have a great trained monkey, we're good."
Glad I brightened your day!
-even if at my expense. lolTrue. We've always had clones. But here's the distinction IMO. They generally weren't signed en masse. You would go to a bar that had nothing but cover bands if you wanted to hear a (sometimes) new take on a current hit. I almost started to list Lynryd Skynryd, Molly Hatchet and .38 Special myself for example. Just to point out that even though they were all classed as Southern Rock, they are distinctly different in their sounds (at least to a southern man), approach, and represented differences in the South. None was a near clone of the other.
And how many years was it before we had an actual Zeppelin clone that got signed? 10 years? (Thinking of Kingdom Come here) Not 10 weeks, or even 10 months. It was actually a refreshing thing hearing Kingdom Come as well, unlike what we have now, it took you back to what it was like first hearing Zeppelin. We don't even have a time to "clear out" the current stuff, before we're having a 'refresher' crammed down our throat.
Sad, but spot on target.
I never meant to imply that there was no bad business at all. Only that it's reached an all-time low. And they wonder why the ship's sinking....
2nded on "And you have the labels hopping on trends, exploiting them, and and playing them to death so quickly that you can't stay interested."
Well said.
Same here
*salute*