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CCNA class rant

Shalafi

Shalafi

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Nov 6, 2009
Messages
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I took my skills assessment lab for my CCNA 3 course last night, and it wasn't very hard at all. It was 3 switches, one router for inter-vlan routing, and 3 PC's. I was on Switch 3 which only had to set up trunk links to the other switches and allow vlans 10,20,30, and 99 across the links, easy stuff. We also had to set up VTP, again, easy. I sat down to configure the switch while the other guys ran the cables.

Now we run into the downside of working in groups, cause you're relying on someone else to do their job properly. I had everything configured properly and I saw that the protocol was down and knew it had to be a cabling issue. So I asked the guy who cabled it if he used the correct type of cable. He said yes, so I looked at the configuration to make sure I had everything right like I thought.

Everything looked fine, so the cable guy checked again and found he had used the wrong cables on the links.

That's so annoying. Working in groups isnt' bad if everyone's on the same level and isn't riding anyone's coattails.

In another group that my friend was in, there was one person who didn't know how to set up an IP address on a computer, LOL, and we're in CCNA 3!!!!

That kind of shit is really embarrasing, anybody else got stories like this to tell? I honestly had no complaints about my previous CCNA 1 and 2 classes.
 
In your scenario cables wouldn't have caused the problem, auto-mdix would have taken care of the crossover issue(unless you were using 19xx switches). Keep in mind if you hard set any of the speed and duplex settings on the ports that will break auto-mdix.

Also, since you didn't state that the status was down I can only assume that it was up and your line protocol was down. This typically means there are no physical layer issues, unless you're up/down on an SVI. Mismatched vlans, wrong subnets, incorrect signaling are all line protocol problems.
 
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turned out to be a cabling issue, I can't remember for certainity if it was either the wrong cables or if they plugged them in the wrong switch. All I know is when I looked over to the rack where they were checking the cabling for the last time, they figured out it was a cabling issue, I was still going through the configuration to make sure everything was right. I can't remember if they either had the wrong cables in there, or if they plugged the cables into the wrong spot.

yeah it was administratively up and the line protocol was down. On our lab paper it had the VLANs we were supposed to make. There wasn't much in the way of configuration to do on my switch compared to the others.

I'll keep what you said in mind, anything that can possibly help troubleshoot issues like this is worth noting, could be your answer helps in the future.
 
I think everytime i did those group labs in my CCNA classes i always pulled the group through. If i think about it now. going back and fixing their mistakes made me better at my job today. I'm a network admin for a fairly large company and i doubt those guys/girls that i carried on my "coattail" are able to do what i do on a daily basis.

and if you're classes are anything like mine were you're using almost antique equipment and you do have to worry about physical cables being crossovers and straight through which again will help you when you come across that stuff in the field.
 
Yeah, I had the same types of experiences with my CCNA groups too actually, but we were using 19xx switches.. lol, The people that rode on my coattails(err.... or was it the other day around, i can never remember) are now working for google, apc, govy guys, etc...

Its a mistake to underestimate the slackers, most of the time they know worlds more than you do:p;)
 
I hope you're right phil, cause if you're not, then it's unlikely they will get a job or work in networking like Mohavis said.

Also Mohavis, that's the exact problem, i'm pretty positive they got the wrong cables in there, because we have a place for all the cables to be hung up on when they aren't in use in a closet, and they have signs over them that specify what kind of cable they are, but you'll always have dumbasses who put them in the wrong place.

well here's a link to the exact lab we had to do

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13868413/ESwitching-Student-Lab-Skills-Based-Assessment

i was on switch 3, it's very easy to configure

that's why I figured it was a cabling problem. It's really embarrasing when you look across the room and there's someone who doesn't know how to set up an IP address on a computer!
 
Wow, they actually let you work in groups for the skills assessment?


In my CCNA2 class on the chapter 1 lab, we had a router that we couldn't get into via the console port. We checked that it was turned on multiple times, tried multiple console cables, tried hooking the console cable to multiple computers, etc. It turns out that though the power switch was actually turned on, the power cable was not there. Now there's 20 minutes of my life that I'll never get back. :p
 
Yeah, they let you work in groups for the skills assessment lab finals. every semester has been that way,

CCNA 1, all you had to do to pass was connect a PC to a router

CCNA 2, had to set up 3 routers, connect them to a switch, and set up OSPF and configure default routes.

CCNA 3, well I posted a link above, that was all we had to do, nothing hard.

I'm doing the first lab in CCNA 4 and it requires you to use all the skills you've learned in the first 3 semesters.

I'm fairly sure a little over half my class couldn't complete this lab.
 
So are these classes the typical length for a semester; around 4 months long? The equivalent of 2 years for the CCNA seems a little long. I guess you guys have lots of lab time. The lab you posted is really good and I wish I had something like that when I was studying.
 
Well, the problem with the lab is that it's TOO easy, it really is. Working in groups for this lab is seriously overkill.

If I were the teacher I would have had one student per switch, 1 student configuring the router, and 1 student configuring the PC's with IP addresses and ping testing connectivity.

Instead, we were all in groups, and like 1-2 people in each group were just sitting there, doing jack shit.

If you want a hard lab, try doing the 7.6.3 troubleshooting lab from CCNA 3, that one took me a while to do, trying to figure out everything that could go wrong, and the funny thing was, there were mismatched VLANs, as phil described in an above post, and that prevented ping tests from completing.

If you want the Packet Tracer lab, I could send it to you, just PM me your email. Won't be able to send it till i'm off work tonight though.
 
prochobo said:
So are these classes the typical length for a semester; around 4 months long? The equivalent of 2 years for the CCNA seems a little long. I guess you guys have lots of lab time. The lab you posted is really good and I wish I had something like that when I was studying.
Click to expand...

Where I go, they're accelerated half semester classes, so it only takes 2 semesters to get though all 4. And they're part of a couple different degree programs, so its not so bad. I would say that 1/3 of the class time is lecture, and 2/3 is lab time.
 
Thanks, but I won't be needing them :) I passed ICND2 right before Thanksgiving. If you know how to do labs like this pretty well, you will surely be fine for the real test. Why don't you take it right now and get it over with :D? Have you taken ICND 1 yet or are you planning on the composite?
 
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Ours meets twice a week at night, from 6 to 8:40

it's like 4/5th's lecture, 1/5th lab

The teacher just reads from the online material, word for word.

It's kind of a waste of time

and we do a 2 year program of this.

I'd rather have gone to alan's college, it sounds a lot better, but oh well, all I can afford is community college. I'd much rather do more labs than lecture, I learn far more by doing the labs in Packet Tracer, than I do by listening to the lecture. Next semester while he wastes his time lecturing, I'm going to do as many Packet Tracers in class as I can, and then ask for an open lab to work on them on, since we have a couple of labs out here.
 
oh and btw, I'm taking the composite. I need to finish CCNA 4 before I can take the composite, i can't take a composite exam and leave out a whole semester's worth of information and expect to pass. I'm not taking the cheating route, cause I feel that if I cheat, and pass, it won't do me any good in the real world if I don't know what I'm doing.
 
I mean, if you can do stuff like that, you clearly have this material down. So, you could read ahead and learn it yourself and you shouldn't have much more material to cover.
 
I'm just worried on the composite they will ask me a bunch of questions about details so minor that the material in class has only a paragraph on. That would be annoying, if you've taken any of the CCNA course tests for each chapter you probably know what I mean, I have a 90ish average on the tests. However, I took a practice exam for the full ccna 3 exam and only scored a 76 on it. I went through the test too fast and didn't read some questions close enough, like the ones with diagrams. When I went over the ones I missed (you can see which ones you missed when the teacher opens up the gradebook) I realized that I should have gone a little more slow. It's stuff like that that prevents me from up and taking it right away.

On chapter tests it's easy to just study that chapter's material, comprehensive exams are more simple/difficult at the same time. Simple because they aren't that likely to go THAT much in detail, but more difficult because you have to know EVERYTHING.

What materials did you use to help you study for it? I can do the labs well, the labs aren't a problem, but you still have to know all the stuff from the cirriculum. If I was graded solely by what I could do on labs, I'd be certified already. The problem is, while I'm a good test taker, it's just having to know 4 complete semester's worth of information to take an exam that covers it all.

I'm not sure exactly how I'm going to tackle that after I finish CCNA 4, I'm thinking of reading Todd Lammle's CCNA book and maybe taking some free online practice exams to prepare. My school might offer a CCNA boot camp for the exam, and I'm thinking about attending it. Not sure how quality it would be for a boot camp but it's probably better than nothing.

I can open up a lab, read the instructions and figure it all out usually without much hassle, if I don't understand something I read the material for the parts I don't understand and then implement what I learn, then I do it again without any help from scratch to make sure I know how to configure it properly.
I guess I should just do some practice exams and then boost my confidence by seeing how I do on those.

Any suggestions? I'd definitely feel better if I could take a few practice exams and then get a feel for what the test would be like and then iron out any weak spots I have.

Sounds like I'm having more of a confidence issue than anything else.
 
The CCNA exam is pretty good for everything being covered in the books. The CCNP is the stage where you need to do that extra reading and spend a bit of time on Cisco documents.

The first time you see a Pro level exam you will be suprised at the step up. At least I certainly was.
 
fantasticdan said:
The CCNA exam is pretty good for everything being covered in the books. The CCNP is the stage where you need to do that extra reading and spend a bit of time on Cisco documents.

The first time you see a Pro level exam you will be suprised at the step up. At least I certainly was.
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Vito_Corleone said:
I felt the same way.
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Totally disagree with both of you. If you read the Cisco press books and a few other published materials you have more than enough tools to pass the CCNP easily. No reason to read product/doccd documentation at all.

Format? Identical to the CCNA, the test will feel no different at all. Only difference is the material that you need to know, in many many many cases the CCNP tests are far easier for people to pass than the CCNA. With the new CCNP and CCIE blueprints, they're trying to weed out to people with no experience(IE. all the college kids on these forums trying to get professional certifications). Its a sad fact that many CCNPs are kids STILL IN COLLEGE with no real world experience, I can't think of anything more disappointing than that.

With all of that said, CCNP's that dont do rigorous lab are dog shit. Plain and simple. If you dont at least pursue the CCIE afterwards you will surely turn into dog shit as well. When you go into an interview with the CCNP expect to be relentlessly grilled and you best be on the top of your game.
 
Well I redisagree.

It wasn't about being under-prepared (for me), it was about the difference in depth between the CCNA and CCNP. So yes, the books and vids and other resources are great, but I experienced a shell shock when transitioning from the relatively easy CCNA to the far more difficult CCNP. Those Pro exams are much tougher than the Associate exams. I'm surprised that you are arguing this.
 
Vito_Corleone said:
Well I redisagree.

It wasn't about being under-prepared (for me), it was about the difference in depth between the CCNA and CCNP. So yes, the books and vids and other resources are great, but I experienced a shell shock when transitioning from the relatively easy CCNA to the far more difficult CCNP. Those Pro exams are much tougher than the Associate exams. I'm surprised that you are arguing this.
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Im not arguning that the material on the CCNP is easier, which its not.. all Im saying is that the test format is IDENTICAL, the questions will be worded the same, and the material transitions are extremely smooth(unless you dumped the shit out of the CCNA). I think most of the CCNP's I know feel the exact same way, because you have a much smaller subset of material that you need to know for the CCNP individual tests.

The CCNA is very broad, so i can cover a wide range of topics. For most people, they find the CCNA harder than the CCNP tests.

With all of that said, let me clarify since I think you may be assuming some things about my statements:

Is the CCNA an easier test, topics wise, without a dobut
Is the CCNP hard to attain, Not at all, if you're prepared its very easy, to a CCIE candidate its a joke.
Is the CCNP valuable, depends on the person. I think so.
What certification was harder for me, neither.. I think that they were both extremely easy for well prepared people.
 
Vito_Corleone said:
Couldn't have been THAT easy seeing as you failed the composite.;)
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hahahaha, good call :p . That test was fucking hard... I got all my simulations FIRST! I was so frustrated with that test. I didn't study either..... that was a mistake too but was put under stupid time-frames... :D
 
The exams are the exact same format but the difference is the pool of knowledge that you need to pull from to be able to answer the questions.

In the CCNA you can read the books, play with packet tracer and sit the exam no problem. The CCNP (I'm going to talk about the BCMSN here) requires knowledge about switching, routing, wireless, voip, qos and security to fairly good standard. You need a much larger pool of knowledge for CCNP exams than the CCNA.
 
fantasticdan said:
The exams are the exact same format but the difference is the pool of knowledge that you need to pull from to be able to answer the questions.

In the CCNA you can read the books, play with packet tracer and sit the exam no problem. The CCNP (I'm going to talk about the BCMSN here) requires knowledge about switching, routing, wireless, voip, qos and security to fairly good standard. You need a much larger pool of knowledge for CCNP exams than the CCNA.
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Um.. I know what the "pool of knowledge" is for the CCNP, but this pool can be strictly theory based(IE. book). The BCMSN glazes over the topics that you listed except for switching, routing isn't covered at all in this test as well. You learn more about voip in the ONT than you do in the BCMSN. Again, the CCNP as a whole is harder but each individual test is EASY compared to the CCNA. This is just my opinion :cool:
 
I can see the CCNP tests individually being easier than the CCNA because like phil said the CCNA covers a broad spectrum of topics, and the CCNP tests are more focused on what they cover, which is why there's like 3 or 4 tests for CCNP certification? I'm probably wrong about the number, but i'm fairly sure there's at least 3.

I can do all the Packet Tracer labs, I even remember about 95 percentish of the commands, give or take a command or 2. My problem is the questions they asked in way too much detail, and if you forget one small detail, you'll get that question wrong, you see that on the chapter tests a lot.

That's what I'm fearing when it comes to take the exam.

I could take it in 2 chunks, but I'm considering doing the composite cause I'm not a pussy.
 
Fail said:
I can see the CCNP tests individually being easier than the CCNA because like phil said the CCNA covers a broad spectrum of topics, and the CCNP tests are more focused on what they cover, which is why there's like 3 or 4 tests for CCNP certification? I'm probably wrong about the number, but i'm fairly sure there's at least 3.

I can do all the Packet Tracer labs, I even remember about 95 percentish of the commands, give or take a command or 2. My problem is the questions they asked in way too much detail, and if you forget one small detail, you'll get that question wrong, you see that on the chapter tests a lot.

That's what I'm fearing when it comes to take the exam.

I could take it in 2 chunks, but I'm considering doing the composite cause I'm not a pussy.
Click to expand...

CCNP is 4 tests, BCMSN, BSCI, ONT, and ISCW. It will be changing sometime mid-next year to 3 tests. And your last comment makes absolutely no sense. How does taking the composite not make you a 'pussy'? :rolleyes:
 
because you have to cover everything at once, instead of only chunk of it at a time by taking the 2 test method
 
oh, so you're just taking offense at what I said, I see, sorry if you feel slighted. I just think the 2 test method seems a little bit easier than taking the composite, at least from what I've heard anyway. I respect anyone who passes the test however, without cheating, either method of taking it used composite or in 2 parts.

Do you feel like you guys are better off having taken it in 2 parts or would you have felt worse about your chances if you took it as a composite?
 
I'm not taking offense. I don't care if you think I'm a pussy, lol. I have the CCNP and you don't have a CCNA. When you get to my/our level, I might care what you think.

My reasons for doing the two tests were:
1. It IS easier, which is a good thing to most...
2. The cost was the same either way.
3. I got the CCENT, which doesn't really mean much, but there was no reason not to get an extra cert with my NA.
 
so you get a CCENT for passing the first half, then your CCNA when you pass the other half?

I've been doing some reading online, and it seems like they might be removing some of the CCNP exams soon, it's just a rumor, seems like the CCNP exam will focus more on routing and switching and consolidate the exams into that, have you heard anything similiar to that?
 
QHalo just posted that. Yes, it's changing. It will go from four exams to three: ROUTE, SWITCH, and TSHOOT. It's actually a bad thing, IMO, if they're not keeping the miscellany, like VPNs, QoS, etc, etc. Cisco is going to be turning out some very narrow CCNPs.
 
I agree, I wish they would keep it in also. Maybe Cisco is going to offload that the the other professional tracks and strengthen them. Kinda makes sense since there is a CCIE R&S but no CCNP equivalent.

The narrow track does suck though. I feel that I'm going to become a certification monkey in a few years just to get well rounded.
 
I"m heading in that direction myself, I"m kind of interested in pursuing CCNA Security after I take and pass my CCNA. It seems more interesting to me than anything else out there.

Security is something I'm particularly interested in, along with troubleshooting, those are the two things I'd probably enjoy most in an actual job

Thanks for all the information, sorry if I'm a little scattered, got a lot going on over here.
 
Fail said:
oh, so you're just taking offense at what I said, I see, sorry if you feel slighted. I just think the 2 test method seems a little bit easier than taking the composite, at least from what I've heard anyway. I respect anyone who passes the test however, without cheating, either method of taking it used composite or in 2 parts.

Do you feel like you guys are better off having taken it in 2 parts or would you have felt worse about your chances if you took it as a composite?
Click to expand...

Not taking offense either really. I've had mine for a year now and I'm just now starting to really use the information. Actually I'm studying for BCMSN because in my environment, switching is really everything we do so I felt that would benefit me more and is much more in depth than CCNA level material. I've been doing IT work in general for just about 9 years and I never had a certification but I was told to have a fighting chance at moving to our networking team I'd have to at least have my CCNA, so it studied for 1.5 months and took ICND1, and another month and took ICND2. I felt the second test was much harder than the first, but I scored higher. Go figure. I took both tests because other than studying, packet tracer, and the small amount of equipment I managed to pick up, that was all the IOS training I had. Figured I'd cut my losses.

I'd like to finish my NP before they make the change but I'm not sure I will be able to. I'm also finishing my B.S. and any spare time left over I study my Cisco stuff.
 
sounds like you made the right turn at the best time.

My RL friend is kind of in the same boat you are, he isn't CCNA certified, but he took all 4 semesters of the course but for some reason hasn't boned up and gotten certified yet. I don't think he's willing to get up and take it, i have NO idea why in all honesty, since it'll look good on his resume. He does however have a job, much like you all he does is switching when he does any actual IT work at all. He works the help desk at other times, and removes malware/spyware and helps dumbasses out with their PC problems.

I'd MUCH rather work on the networking side of things than the help desk kind of thing. One major reason for that is being deaf, I won't be able to answer the phone. That's kind of why I'm interested in the networking side, cause I can just go in there, troubleshoot the problems, or configure everything from scratch, or build on top of an existing configuration if it's feasible.

I'm kind of interested in consulting work, I work for the government right now, and I'm waiting to see if any IT jobs open up and trying to grab one of those, I honestly won't care what I'm doing for the government, but I do want some kind of side work as a consultant when all's said and done.
 
Sorry for a double post here, but I find what you said about the harder exam, you scored higher, I figured you probably studied harder for it because you must have felt like you had less room for error, you probably went overboard on the side of caution, not a bad thing though, since you obviously did so well. What was the most frustrating part of the tests? (that you can think of?)
 
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