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Catalyst 5.8 has shimmering problems too...

T

Terra

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 2, 2004
Messages
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Bit-tech.net -Shimmering on ATI...

After the recently reported problems with NVIDIA's ForceWare 77.77 drivers - that were subsequently fixed with ForceWare 78.03 - it seems that ATI are also playing the shimmering game too, according to the guys on Rage3D's forums.

The issue seems to be most apparent in Half-Life 2 and Counter-Strike: Source and we can confirm that we've seen the problem too. Last Thursday we spent a large amount of time evaluating the image quality of Catalyst 5.8 on the Radeon X800GT after seeing some irregularities.

However, at that time we were not 100% sure that we were seeing shimmering, as the uncompressed videos that we had recorded with FRAPS were not showing what we were seeing in-game to quite the same extent.

We found that the easiest place to see the shimmering issues is on either de_dust, de_aztec, or cs_assault in Counter-Strike: Source and in the City 17 and Water Hazard levels in Half-Life 2. There are a couple of videos that you can download that highlight the problem in this post - they're roughly 45MB each so it's going to be for broadband users only.

The issue isn't raised under the 'Known Bugs' section of the Catalyst 5.8 release notes, so we don't think that it's a known bug.

After the problems that NVIDIA have had with shimmering, we weren't expecting ATI to have the same problems and even more so, we certainly weren't expecting them to not highlight it as a bug. In light of these problems, we'll be sticking with Catalyst 5.7 until it is fixed.

What's going on? First NVIDIA, now ATI - we just want shimmer-free gaming and we'd like a quick turn around on this problem too.
Click to expand...

Looks like those who screamed and cried at NVIDIA for the "shimmering"(wich I havn't seen, I guess I don't play the games affected, now will get the chance to just as uot-spoken to speak out against ATI...

Beacuse we treat "cheating/bad hardware" the same way right...regardless of the nema on the card...or? :rolleyes:

Terra - I guess ATI and Nvidia are even now...caugth with the hand in the cokkie jar....sadly...
 
I thought nVidia got out of it by saying that they were genuinly unaware of the bug, time for ATi to play the same card (pardon th pun) :rolleyes:
 
If it's only on a select few maps (as the videos indicate) and is isolated to the Cat 5.8, I don't see how this could be anything other than a driver bug? nVidia got blasted because the 7800 GTX had noticeably lower quality with all driver revisions (up till 78.03); even the 78.03s don't completely fix the problem.
 
Terra said:
Bit-tech.net -Shimmering on ATI...



Looks like those who screamed and cried at NVIDIA for the "shimmering"(wich I havn't seen, I guess I don't play the games affected, now will get the chance to just as uot-spoken to speak out against ATI...

Beacuse we treat "cheating/bad hardware" the same way right...regardless of the nema on the card...or? :rolleyes:

Terra - I guess ATI and Nvidia are even now...caugth with the hand in the cokkie jar....sadly...
Click to expand...

Dude, put down the crack pipe. You make it sound like ATi did this knowingly/intentionally as a means of increasing performance and that ATi users won't be upset because of it. If the 5.8 drivers do have problems people will drop back to the 5.7, or earlier, version of the Cats, and wait for a fix in the next driver release.

No one expects a 100% bug free driver. The only reason anyone brings up the problem with nVidia drivers and shimmering is the fact that it has been there for so long, and NV is only now just claiming to know about it.
 
Where are all the ATI fans who called the shimmering on NVIDIA cards a driver "cheat". :rolleyes:
 
PRIME1 said:
Where are all the ATI fans who called the shimmering on NVIDIA cards a driver "cheat". :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

5150 joker already pointed out how it's this driver has it on some maps. Older drivers don't have it (well..so far)
 
Netrat33 said:
It was funny though :p
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It's scary how similar in personality rabid nVidia fans tend to be eh? Or is it the same person with multiple personalities? lol.
 
5150Joker said:
It's scary how similar in personality rabid nVidia fans tend to be eh? Or is it the same person with multiple personalities? lol.
Click to expand...

I have always thought the same thing about the ATI people (even the ones who got banned) :p

Either way you have to admit it is ironic.
 
You know what would be real ironic. If ATI responds and fixes the issue in the next driver revision, instead of sitting on the problem for months. Now, that would be ironic. We shall see I guess.
 
New from Nvidia and ATi SHIMMERING 2.0!! Now you will experience the realism of someone strung out on cocaine RIGHT from your own computer desk!!!

Nvidia 6800 or later, ATi Catalyst 5.8 or later required.
 
5150Joker said:
It's scary how similar in personality rabid nVidia fans tend to be eh? Or is it the same person with multiple personalities? lol.
Click to expand...

Same thing applies to the people on the red corner. In some cases, actually worse.
 
it's a driver issue with one revision of drivers. www.rage3d.com has had reports in their "catalyst problems" thread that's frequented by catalyst developers and beta testers, and i'd venture to say it'll be resolved.
 
It'd be pretty funny if ATi just did it to mock Nvidia. Can't you picture them just sitting around laughing it up, sipping their wine, all while watching their stocks plumit... oops! :p
 
All Terra posts is cocky bullshit. I recommend ignoring this person.

p.s. would you guys stop quoting Terra though.......I can't ignore those lol. ;)
 
PRIME1 said:
You make it sound like he wrote the buggy Catalyst drivers :D
Click to expand...

No he makes it sound like Terra's attempt to blow a driver bug out of proportion failed - you can't liken 1+ year of nVidia shimmering to an isolated driver bug.
 
Well,

If shimmering on an ATI is the same as shimmering on a 7800GTX, then I am not worried one bit because I still cannot see it.

However, Some good may come from it. Maybe this will get some of our more over zealous ATI folks to stop treating this topic like they are saving the entire world by fighting the antichrist.
 
Haha no, actually, it's sad. First nVidia had this problem and now ATi. I think we're seeing an on going "follow the leader". :p
 
haha, yeah dood, all i can say about this is, AAAAhahahahaahahahaha. time to watch all th Fan boys freakout!

seriously though, who cares? I mean come on, a little shimmering? that most people (come on admit it) didn't even notice until that germen website released videos of direct comparison in a fixed situation. I don't even care about ant-aliasing. i guess maybe its because i game on a ps2 as well, which most of those games have shimmer and little anti-aliasing. take metal gear solid 3 for example, one of the most beautiful games I've played, even though it suffers from horrible shimmering and aliasing. its art direction and design still trounces most games on PC. whether a game looks good or not isn't about who has the most up to date graphic techniques or who's image is the most "solid", its about using whatever it is you do use for graphics effectively, and having good art design and gameplay to back it up. look at guild wars and BF2, they both don't use direct X 9....
and btw, though its off topic...lets get some more non-fps/strategy games on PC. advent rising was a breath of fresh air...hurry up and get that standardized controller micorsoft!
 
Well fan boys always like to point fingers when something for the competition goes sour. Now everyone's pointing fingers at themselves.
 
Maybe so, but I would have to admit that I don't see ANY shimmering with my card, just like I didn't see any shimmering on my friend's 6800GT. Maybe it's some of the cards not all of them, or i just havent noticed this shimmering. Also the only time i did notice the shimmering was with my old 6800GTO that came originally with my Dell.
 
I didn't notice it til all you a-holes brought it up, now I can't stop seeing it!!!
 
This thread got funny fast *LOL*

But noticed one strange thing.
In NVIDIA case, it bad hardware to blame/speculating in driver-preformance...
In ATI's case, it's just a slip-up? :rolleyes:
I love to see people doublestandards come out in full glory.

And what's more funny is that I read it on [H]ardOCP's fronpage, but I am the one getting the heat for it? :D
Not the guys who found it?
Not Stve who put in on the frontpage?
Not the guys who wrote the driver?

But what...I can take it ;)

Terra - BTW I have only user at [H] and have never been deleted ;)
 
animosity said:
I didn't notice it til all you a-holes brought it up, now I can't stop seeing it!!!
Click to expand...

Close your eyes ;)

Terra. Fix Version 1.0 ;) *L*
 
5150Joker said:
No he makes it sound like Terra's attempt to blow a driver bug out of proportion failed - you can't liken 1+ year of nVidia shimmering to an isolated driver bug.
Click to expand...

? The 7800 series hadn't been out that long, and a previous work arround worked fine for 6800 users so it didn't turn the issue into the serious urgency that it was for the 7800. If you look at it in that respect then nVIDIA may not have known about the 7800 issue until recently and then they worked very quickly to begin developing a solution.

The 5.8's are begining to support the newer R5xx series of cards. Just like the G70 support in the 75 series, so it's not suprising to see this shimmering to begin taking affect. Most likely R5xx series owners will notice some level of shimmering just like the 7800 owners.

Of course you ATI fnboyz will mark me in the same category as Terra. It's just that Terra is pointing out that the shimmering was way blown out of perspective as hundreds if not thousands of the cards were already in users hands, playing games, and not one comment about shimmering until the article pointed it out. Then it was OMFG THZ SUXORZ, NVDIA IS the CARP! Everyone then went into exhaustive detail about how this wouldn't happen with the ATI cards, but what did just happen?

So cut Terra some slack for overreacting to ATI issue, just like we should have all cut you slack for overreacting to the nVIDIA issue. :rolleyes:
 
HighTest said:
? The 7800 series hadn't been out that long, and a previous work arround worked fine for 6800 users so it didn't turn the issue into the serious urgency that it was for the 7800. If you look at it in that respect then nVIDIA may not have known about the 7800 issue until recently and then they worked very quickly to begin developing a solution.
Click to expand...

The LOD bandaid for the 6800 never fully fixed the shimmering, it just tried covering it up by resetting mip map levels. As I already mentioned, the 78.03 drivers still do not fix the shimmering problem, they just reduce it in HQ mode.

The 5.8's are begining to support the newer R5xx series of cards. Just like the G70 support in the 75 series, so it's not suprising to see this shimmering to begin taking affect. Most likely R5xx series owners will notice some level of shimmering just like the 7800 owners.
Click to expand...

Of course none of your theory is supported in fact. The only thing we know at this point is Cat 5.8 causes shimmering on some maps - the fact that previous Catalyst releases don't have this problem is an indication of a driver bug.

Of course you ATI fnboyz will mark me in the same category as Terra. It's just that Terra is pointing out that the shimmering was way blown out of perspective as hundreds if not thousands of the cards were already in users hands, playing games, and not one comment about shimmering until the article pointed it out. Then it was OMFG THZ SUXORZ, NVDIA IS the CARP! Everyone then went into exhaustive detail about how this wouldn't happen with the ATI cards, but what did just happen?
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan_boy of ATi or nVidia (I own a 7800 GTX btw) but I call it like it is. Terra is always trying to nitpick to find flaws with ATi, just like a few others around here - nothing new.
 
Honestly I've been seeing shimmering on my radeon 9800 pro for the longest time, but I don't care. It only happens in certain games, and luckily they're games I don't play anymore. Never happens in things like UT2004, Doom 3, Battlefield 2, only in games like halo does it ever show. All it reminds me to do is stop staring at the ground.
 
Terra said:
This thread got funny fast *LOL*

But noticed one strange thing.
In NVIDIA case, it bad hardware to blame/speculating in driver-preformance...
In ATI's case, it's just a slip-up? :rolleyes:
I love to see people doublestandards come out in full glory.
Click to expand...

Um, its been in several drivers for NV, and one (according to the "article") for ATi. And then its not even close to as bad for ATis cards, as it is to NVs. Talk about doublestandards.
 
Terra said:
This thread got funny fast *LOL*

But noticed one strange thing.
In NVIDIA case, it bad hardware to blame/speculating in driver-preformance...
In ATI's case, it's just a slip-up? :rolleyes:
I love to see people doublestandards come out in full glory.

Terra - BTW I have only user at [H] and have never been deleted ;)
Click to expand...

You're joking right?
Nvidia's problem has been longer than ATI having the problem.
 
animosity said:
I didn't notice it til all you a-holes brought it up, now I can't stop seeing it!!!
Click to expand...

Yep, Ignorance is bliss. We didn't see it on the nVIDIA cards either until this was pointed out and then we specifically went to look for it.

To bad you can never regain the ignorance, alas the damage to your innocense. :eek:

Sure to be fixed soon I'd gather.
 
PRIME1 said:
Where are all the ATI fans who called the shimmering on NVIDIA cards a driver "cheat". :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
ROFL!!! :p ATI users were screaming from the top of their lungs, crapping on nVidia for shimmering problems, now it's coming back and biting them in their own ass! Ahahahaha!!! There truly IS justice in this world... :D
 
1c3d0g said:
ROFL!!! :p ATI users were screaming from the top of their lungs, crapping on nVidia for shimmering problems, now it's coming back and biting them in their own ass! Ahahahaha!!! There truly IS justice in this world... :D
Click to expand...

Don't forget to mention the leagues of Nvidia users who said they saw no shimmering, and are now jumping on the bandwagon to bash ATI for an issue they said didn't exist, since they had no explanation and cannot hold any guilt.

But enough wasted words.
 
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