Career network job

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digital7

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I am a long time Hardocp reader, but this is my first post to the forum.

I just finished college and now I am looking for my first career job. What I want is a job in networking. I am currently living in Oklahoma and I really haven’t had any luck finding a network related job here. What I am really looking for is something that is entry level. I would like to find an employer who realizes that I am fresh out of college and I don’t have any actual work experience. All of the networking jobs I have found want people with certifications, a degree plus 3+ years of the job experience.

I am just about to give up on Oklahoma and look at Texas. Dallas seems to have quite a few network related jobs. I have been investigating a web hosting company in Dallas called theplanet.net. I understand that they host Hardocp. They list a position for a “network operation center technician” that seems pretty entry level.

I am wondering if anyone could make any suggestions about finding an entry level network job. I would appreciate feedback from anyone who knows of any companies who hire entry level network people in Oklahoma or the Dallas area. Are there any forum members who are employees of ThePlanet who might give me some insight as to what is available at that company?


Thanks
 
digital7 said:
I am a long time Hardocp reader, but this is my first post to the forum.

I just finished college and now I am looking for my first career job. What I want is a job in networking. I am currently living in Oklahoma and I really haven’t had any luck finding a network related job here. What I am really looking for is something that is entry level. I would like to find an employer who realizes that I am fresh out of college and I don’t have any actual work experience. All of the networking jobs I have found want people with certifications, a degree plus 3+ years of the job experience.

I am just about to give up on Oklahoma and look at Texas. Dallas seems to have quite a few network related jobs. I have been investigating a web hosting company in Dallas called theplanet.net. I understand that they host Hardocp. They list a position for a “network operation center technician” that seems pretty entry level.

I am wondering if anyone could make any suggestions about finding an entry level network job. I would appreciate feedback from anyone who knows of any companies who hire entry level network people in Oklahoma or the Dallas area. Are there any forum members who are employees of ThePlanet who might give me some insight as to what is available at that company?


Thanks
Click to expand...

I'm gonna be straight up with you, it's gonna be tough finding a job straight outta college with no experience or certs, but it's not impossible. You might have to set your sights lower initially just so you could get your foot in the door, like taking a technician job or something to that effect. But if you have a good work ethic and know your stuff, you'll be able to go up. Certifications do help a lot in getting you that first call back. A lot of the old timers don't really respect certs, but the HR people dig them. The MCP, CNA, and CCNA are entry level certs, and being able to say you know Netware, Active Directory, and Cisco routing/switching will put you way above the pack, at least it did for me.. Check out the resume thread and make your resume as sharp as possible. You have no idea how far a good resume will take you. I'm still in college (2 years to go), and I got my first job through my school. I started as a intern/help desk techncian, but now I'm doing more network related stuff, and I haven't even been there 8 months. When the migrations from NDS to ADS is done, I'll be over that as well, so I'm really excited (been looking for over 2 years tho). Also location is very important. You may just have to move to get a job, but this is your career and something you really want to do, so you gotta go for it, no looking back, no regrets. Check out monster, dice, and the other sites and see what the the medium skill set is for the area your looking in. Active Directory? Linux? Routing protocols? E-Directory? When you figure out what the average is, try to add those skills to your resume. Also try doing some side jobs for friends and family. Even if it's for free, it'll give you much needed experience to get that first job. It may not seem like something humongous (like making sure 3 or 4 pc's connect) but you doll that bitch up on your res like nobody's business. Others might disagree with me, but you might have to "embelish" a little on your resume to get that first job. Thankfully I didn't have to do it, but I would have done whatever was possible to get where I wanted to go.

The best thing is to not give up. If this is what you really want to do, keep pushing. If you have to work in retail to save up for books on certs, do it (been there done that). If you have to spend money to build test computers to practice, do it. Trust me, your efforts will not be in vain. It may take a while, but the sun'll come out.

Hope this helps
 
I agree, you should get yourself some certs. Its easy to get that entry level job when you have the certs.
 
ne0-reloaded & kyl,

Thanks for your suggestions. I guess I will just have to dig in a get some certifications. What I find frustrating is the number of resumes that I have sent out and that I have not received even one call back. I just went to a Dell job fair last week. I talked to a manager there about a server technician job. He wasn’t interested in my resume because I didn’t have any certifications. I have 2 associates degrees and a bachelors degree equaling six years worth of school, but he seriously didn’t seem care about my college education.

I have been doing retail for quite a while. Retail hell is what drove me back to college. For my sanity, I can’t return to retail.

I found a place called New Horizons computer learning centers, which does certification training and testing. I am going to check them out to see what they offer.
 
>He wasn’t interested in my resume because I didn’t have any certifications

Yeah, that attitude is complete bullshit. It's really frustrating when you have to deal with these HR/managers who don't know shit about tech, and even less about recruitment. The just do what they "heard" everyone else is doing. So if everyone else is looking for certs, so are they. They're selecting on people who got money to pay for useless pieces of paper, and can memorize a lot of data from braindumps. I once got to take one of the MS developer test for free and it was a complete scham. You're just required to regurgutate what they believe is "the correct way to do A".

Best of luck to you. Just don't forget, they're all wrong.
 
Here in Iowa all people want is experience and/or a degree. I have my A+, Net+, MCSA: 2000 and am a test away from my CCNA but the only experience I have is in PC repair and some basic SOHO networking, if you don't include my home lab. I keep hearing if you had a few more years in "real-world" networking or a BA then we could talk . . . .

How about I give you half of my certs if you give me half your degree . . . .:)

See if you can intern somewhere for experience. I did that in the IT dept at a private college in my area. That should help a little.

The A+ and Net+ exams are relatively cheap. Go get 'em, you can find all the study materials you need for free on the net.

Good luck
 
wow, i took a little different route then you took digital7.
i found an internet help desk tech lvl 1 job straight out of high school and was quickly promoted to lvl2 becuase well...i put the most trouble calls to rest in the shortest amount of time and the boss liked that. the trouble was just that being fresh out of high school with just being a general geek couldnt get me promoted any more than a helpdesk technician. so i joined the military and right now im responsible for an AD forest with 5 domains, also ~90 cisco switches and routers at my location. lets just say i ive done my share of pulling wires around. ;) im done with my enlistment in january and ive had many job offers for a position similar to the one youre talking about. no certs, but man do i have work experience! so ill i can say is this:
as long as youre working around some sort of technical portion of the computer administration/networking industry you will pick up experience and meet people who know people who have job openings
knowing someone who knows someone who needs a jr network admin is a good thing :p
 
Just a FYI, New Horizon will cost you an arm and a leg. They will promise you will pass your cert and promise a good internship. But a lot of the time, neither happen.

A lot of tech schools offer night classes for certs. A lot cheaper than New Horizon. As far as internships or base level jobs. If you know someone already in the field, as them to help.
 
I'll be starting a level 1 help desk position at 2wire.com (here in Tempe), in September. I'm almost 1/2 way through my Bachelor's Degree, and was wondering if this was a good place to start out at?

I'd like to be able to break out of help desk into network/system administration (my major is Systems and Security administration) by the time I at least graduate from college. If not, then maybe airforce will be the way to go.
 
I have my CCNA and a year of college under by belt (im a technical theatre major)... im currently working for a company that does phone system installs and pulls alot of fiber and copper as a draftsman, shop runner, etc.... at school i do some IT stuff.... the ccna has helped me alot... would sudgest to anyone who is wanting any type of networking work to get the ccna... most community colleges are cisco academies and you can pick up the classes pretty easy... i didnt relize how little i knew untill i took those courses.... one day i hope to get my ccne.... and the ICND test sucks by the way....
 
Stang Man said:
I'll be starting a level 1 help desk position at 2wire.com (here in Tempe), in September. I'm almost 1/2 way through my Bachelor's Degree, and was wondering if this was a good place to start out at?

I'd like to be able to break out of help desk into network/system administration (my major is Systems and Security administration) by the time I at least graduate from college. If not, then maybe airforce will be the way to go.
Click to expand...

That is the route I took. I started out as an internal helpdesk intern. Due to some shakeups in staffing, another intern and I basically ended up (unofficially) running our functional area. I got hired full time despite a hiring freeze, and then moved up to outage management. Got my CCNA, impressed the network ops management, and managed to land myself a job. I have pushed hard over the nearly year I have been in this position, and I am half way to my CCNP. I feel well positioned to take a shot at the next senior analyst or engineer position that opens up.
It isn't the quick route to riches that was promised when I was in school, but one thing I like about IT is that it seems to be mostly a meritocracy, those that can do the work get to move up. It isn't always as fast as some of us would like, and being stuck at the helpdesk for a while kind of sucks, but its the way life is usually now. Managers are loathe to take a chance on hiring someone straight into an important role simply on the basis of an interview and a resume. If you can prove yourself, and your company isnt a mess or falling apart, moving out of the helpdesk shouldn't be a problem.
 
i fell for the new horizons scam. was supposed to get A+ and Net+ and an internship....
well i got my A+ quicklike, and i landed a job while i was doin the course for Net+....never got the cert cuz my job takes up my time now, and i cant quit get the internship with working full time either, so i kinda fucked myself tyhere.....besides that they didnt even want interns, they wanted full time workers, cuz i wanted to schedule around my main job, and do the intern bit just for the expereince, but they wouldnt have that....so im out a grip of $$ and have little to show for it...i mean i have an AS, and A+....and a full time nice paying job, but its not where i wanna be forever....just gettin my foot in the door and eatin shit till i build up a nice resume and blow this hellhole...
 
eloj said:
>He wasn’t interested in my resume because I didn’t have any certifications

Yeah, that attitude is complete bullshit. It's really frustrating when you have to deal with these HR/managers who don't know shit about tech, and even less about recruitment. The just do what they "heard" everyone else is doing. So if everyone else is looking for certs, so are they. They're selecting on people who got money to pay for useless pieces of paper, and can memorize a lot of data from braindumps. I once got to take one of the MS developer test for free and it was a complete scham. You're just required to regurgutate what they believe is "the correct way to do A".

Best of luck to you. Just don't forget, they're all wrong.
Click to expand...

digital7

this is the kind of attitude you DONTwant to have. It's all a game, and you have to do what you have to do to stay relavent. If you have to spend a little money to get that first job then go for it. If you have to pass some exams that are "useless" to get u an interivew then do it. Don't listen to the person I'm quoting. I've past a few certs and I've learned a whole lot. Of course there's others who cheat, but you don't have to, use them as a way to build your technical skillset, and get you interviews. It's an investment in your future just like going to school was. Ya I know retail sucks, but look at it as paying your dues. I did the retail/fast food thing for I don't know how long, but it was either that or rob someone. In the end I can say that it was worth it because I'm at where I want to be. Don't go to New Horizon tho, they'll rape your pockets. Grab a book and start reading. The A+, MCP's, and whatnot are pretty easy to pass with a good book, time, and hands on exp (aka a computer to fuck around with). Usually the people who say certs aren't shit usually don't have them. and the people who says degrees are a waste of time don't have one either.

Just stay focused and keep sending out those resumes. make sure you check out the resume thread, it's golden. When I first started trying to get a job, I sent out my resume for about 2 years and not even an e-mail back. I just kept with it though. You have a bachelors and two associates, so you're way ahead of me. Just stay focused and the doors will break open.

ne0
 
What I did was just learn as much as possible on my own, Then I worked at best buy as a tech which then switched to geek squad, then i went to circuit city IQ crew. Now I'm doing installations of voice/data networks including all kinds of happy stuff. I got the job in a kind of weird way. Some guys came in to setup our new cisco equipment overnight at circuit city the next morning we came in and nothing worked at all. I offered to take a look at it before the NEW techs showed up to fix the other guy's F-Up. By the time the new guys showed up I had it running. They offered me a job on the spot. been going great ever since. But the 2 years repair experience allowed me to demand a higher pay-rate.

By far the biggest advantage I have over the other guys I work with is that when they setup the equipment they do it step by step through a manual, I can do it by skimming just for how the customer wants it setup. Knowing the cisco IOS has helped alot, and knowing UNIX/Linux has been helpful too because phone switches are quite similar to c shells.

I kind of got lucky because my boss is going to pay for my CCNA as well.
 
FWIW: My roomate has hired / replaced quite a few people over the last few years. (he Manages the IT department of a larger organization) And let me tell you, it is not the easiest job in the world to get.. He hates having to list a new job because he will get hundreds of resumes, one of his current employees is a Harvard PHD... They list those kind of requirements because he gets people with 6+ years of experience and certs applying for entry level jobs..

==>Lazn
 
Not to get off topic, but may I ask where your bachelor's degree is from?

I'm currently a semester away from my degree at the University of Wisconsin and an internship was required for my graduation. It may have been my aggressiveness, but I managed to get a position as the lone IT consultant for a financial institution, which has been giving me experience in project management, development, networking, security, and satisfaction of GLBA Act standards. I figure that should be numero uno in conversation with prospective employers and bolded on my resume.

I'm just surprised your college didn't require you to get some experience. Mine absolutely demanded it.

Good luck to you.
 
> this is the kind of attitude you DONTwant to have.

That's right. Questioning the certification business is bad. There's only one question you need to know, and that's "How high?"

> Usually the people who say certs aren't shit usually don't have them

Well, thanks for admitting that at least. (It is you who's saying they are not shit is it not? :-p)
 
Stang Man said:
I'll be starting a level 1 help desk position at 2wire.com (here in Tempe), in September. I'm almost 1/2 way through my Bachelor's Degree, and was wondering if this was a good place to start out at?

I'd like to be able to break out of help desk into network/system administration (my major is Systems and Security administration) by the time I at least graduate from college. If not, then maybe airforce will be the way to go.
Click to expand...
University of Phoenix Online is ALWAYS hiring people for tech jobs. Id look into that. ;)
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
University of Phoenix Online is ALWAYS hiring people for tech jobs. Id look into that. ;)
Click to expand...

I'd love, just need to get a car first since riding a bike across phoenix would take all day
 
eloj said:
> this is the kind of attitude you DONTwant to have.

That's right. Questioning the certification business is bad. There's only one question you need to know, and that's "How high?"
Click to expand...

i dont even know what the hell you meant by that.....

eloj said:
> Usually the people who say certs aren't shit usually don't have them

Well, thanks for admitting that at least. (It is you who's saying they are not shit is it not? :-p)
Click to expand...

i didnt say they werent shit, dont know how u got that outta what i wrote, lol...makes me laugh.

like i said though, more than likely you'll have to start at the bottom, it'll suck but at least you'll have your foot in the door. try sending your resume to recruiting agencies, robert haft, kforce, teksystems....look em up on monster in your area. i havent had much look with robert haft, but some of the other ones where i live (cincinnati) have been pretty decent.

good luck
 
Aelfgeft said:
Not to get off topic, but may I ask where your bachelor's degree is from?

I'm just surprised your college didn't require you to get some experience. Mine absolutely demanded it.

Good luck to you.
Click to expand...



Aelfgeft,

Here is my degree list and the schools I attended.

Bachelor of Science in Computer Information Systems – Cameron University

Associate of Applied Science in Computer Information Systems – Cameron University

Associate of Applied Science in Network Administration - Laredo Community College


My first associates degree did require a practicum. I worked for one semester to set up an employee computer training center. It required me to set up 26 client systems and 3 servers. I had to design a topology, run all of the cables and connect the cables to the switches and the router. Then I had to create new organizational units, create a new sub domain and join that sub domain to the existing domain. For the rest of the semester I had to administer the training center, create new accounts, install software etc… It was good experience, but still not enough for the organizations I have submitted resumes to.


I did check into New Horizons Computer Learning Centers. Holy cow! They want over two grand just for the CCNA classes. Forget that. I am either going to get a book or maybe buy the LearnKey CCNA training videos. I read that those are supposed to be thorough.

Thanks to everyone who responded.
 
CCNA book: $50
two 2501 Cisco routers on ebay: $75 with shipping
having a home lab to practice, as compared to a PoS "router sim": priceless
 
Get the Cisco Press CCNA books, they're the best in my opinion. I didn't even have a router, i just used a sim that came with the sybex book that I bought. I didn't know much when I took the exam, but I learned a whole lot. Having a router and switch to practice on is good, but if your strapped for doe then sims are the way to go. It sounds like you have some good exp from that internship you did. You might not be able to get a admin/network tech job, but as long as you for a company that allows you to advance, you'll get out of help desk in no time (if you have the skills of course). Just don't take a call support job, they never lead to nowhere. If you don't mind, post your resume so I can take a look at it. Your resume is your first impression, so it has be perfect.
 
ne0-reloaded said:
Just don't take a call support job, they never lead to nowhere. If you don't mind, post your resume so I can take a look at it. Your resume is your first impression, so it has be perfect.
Click to expand...

Several people have told me to totally avoid call centers and to steer clear of phone hell.

Here is my resume. I had a technical writing instructor critique it already. She thought it was acceptable.

Contact information [withheld]

-------------------------
 
Your employment experience is pretty thin, atleast in the IT aspect. I'd suggested getting rid of the "Workplace Safety" given that it's pretty vague, and definately not something to be impressed about, and the fact that different companies have different safety methods.

In my opinion I'm against putting any type of GPA on a resume. This was also suggested by the Lear Corporation's that works with Michigan State's Business college, to me. Those guys will make ya feel like you've did an entire resume wrong, brutal to say the least. Mostly because in my opinion, most college courses from major universities, at least in MSU's case, don't teach you anything practical, outside of Computer Science (Programming) therefore it isn't really a good measure of your skills.

As to avoiding Call Centers, thats a toss up. I've worked at our call center for 2 years (student job), however in our case we support about 60,000 users, and it's not a bad thing to have on a resume, especially when your experience is light, as it is. The job doesn't pay great, and the users suck, but you need to start somewhere.

In terms of these statements...

Computer Security - Specifics? Does this mean you know how to install and antivirus scanner, or can you plan a reliable security infastructure for a large network.

Workplace Safety - Completely remove.

Technical communications - Does this mean email?

Production Planning - Perhaps this should be Product planning? Not exactly sure what your doing here.

Computer Generated Presentations - I can use powerpoint. :)

Industrial Management Systems - What does this even mean? For instance we use a application called Remedy, a widely used application in help desk world to track problems. I specifically put that in my resume, becuase it provides a something tangible.

The resume you have now is mostly fluff.

For the record, I'm only being slightly mean about it, becuase thats what employers do, don't take any of my comments personally, but them them as constuctive critism.
 
digital7 said:
Several people have told me to totally avoid call centers and to steer clear of phone hell.

Here is my resume. I had a technical writing instructor critique it already. She thought it was acceptable.

Contact information [withheld]

[Of course the objective is altered depending on the job I am applying for. This is just a generic objective I have used for job fair resumes.]

OBJECTIVE: To obtain a professional position with an information
technology related company.

EDUCATION: 2005 Bachelor of Science in Computer
Information Systems – Cameron University

2005 Associate of Applied Science in Computer
Information Systems – Cameron University

2003 Associate of Applied Science in
Network Administration - Laredo Community College


Major Courses:
COBOL I & II
Network Operating System Essentials
Data Base & SQL
Implementing Windows 2000 Server
Forth Generation Languages
Windows 2000 Infrastructure
Business Applications of C++ 1&2
Windows 2000 Directory Services
Data Mining
Visual Basic
Systems Engineering
Novel Network administration
Managing the IT Center
Network Hardware (Cisco)

Related Courses:
Computer Security
Workplace Safety
Technical communications
Production Planning
Computer Generated Presentations
Industrial Management Systems

Activities and Honors: Graduated AAS Sum Cum Laude with a 3.7 GPA.
10 years of personal experience assembling
computer systems.
Employment:
2003 Practicum, Laredo Community College
Designed and implemented a computer lab and network for an employee technology training center. (ETAC)
Laredo, TX
1997-1999 Electronics Sales Associate (Full-Time)
Sam’s Club
May-June 1993 Worked as a teacher’s assistant for Lawton
Public School System, Crosby Park Elementary
Summer Art program.
Lawton, OK

REFERENCES: Available upon request.
Click to expand...

The biggest problem with your resume is you don't talk about your skills. Nowhere in that resume does it say what technologies you know. Considering you don't have a lot of exp, this should be the section where you set yourself apart. You said you worked while in school on a project that consisted on you working with ADS. That's huge, considering that ADS is used almost everywhere you go, and a lot of new grads wouldnt even know what Active Directory is. You don't state any operating systems you're familiar with (you at least worked with win2k/xp clients and 2k/2k3 server on that project). You state nothing about knowing about dns, dhcp, tcp/ip.....You're resume is basically saying I went to school, I took a bunch of classes, and I had a couple jobs.

Also you need to go into more detail about what you did at your jobs. Did you make any new changes that's still benig followed? did you work independantly? You don't even list what you did on the job. Honestly if I saw this resume as a boss, i wouldn't give it more than 2 looks.

If you can't think of any skills you did on the job, use the skills you required in school. You seem to have taken a class dealing with cisco, tell about the hardware. Were they routers, switches, or pix's. If so what series of (1900, 2500, etc). CatOS, IOS, both? RIP, OSPF, EIGRP, BGP? you could go on and on and on....

Don't know if you did or not, but you really need to check out the IT Resume Thread. It has a lot of good info on it. The resume is your first impression, and the impression i got from this resume was yawnnnnnnn :eek: (I dont what your technical writer was thinking, seems like she was trying to sabatoge you or something). You have a lot to work with, even though you might not realize it. When I first started out my skills/experience was nowhere near yours, but I knew how to work wit my mama gave me. If you spend a good 3 or 4 hours perfecting your resume, I guarantee you you'll get calls out the ass.

hope this helps.

EDIT: lose/change the objective. we all know your objective is to get a job, that's why your sending out your resume. Also ex out the references available upon request (it's understood nowadays).
 
Thanks for the replies. I am now in the process of modifying my resume. I am reading the resume thread and it is good.
 
OK, I havent been bothered to read the whole thread (sorry fellas) but here is my story

I am a old school networking guy.

I have done

Cisco
Juniper (the only Cert I got, JNCIE-M)
Extreme Networks (LEARN BGP you BASTARDS)
Foundry
Nortel

I have worked for Telcos and ISPs both here in the netherlands and back in australia.
Been doing networking now for 9years

So, how did I get into it?

Well, back in 95, I couldn't be stuffed with Uni (I hated it, learning crap I didn't care about) so I dropped out and looked for a job. I was actually gonna apprentice as a chef (why not) but for some reason, I found a ad which basically said

"Know about the internet, looking for work"

So I called them up, got a helpdesk job at this company called Ozemail (back then THE ISP). Worked there for a while, moved to operations, then moved around a few companys, just getting experience, came in the Netherlands, started working for some big Telcos, got some VERY good experience (how often are you on a team designing and installing a country wide network, core network at OC-48, but looking to up it to OC-192, god I love Juniper), got my first Cert (not that I think I need it now, but before could have been handy)

So thats my story, no formal education, just pure experience and being able to talk my way through interviews.

But today, I dont think its so easy to do it my way because everyone still wants a IT job, networking or not. Supply outstrips demand. A few months ago we where looking for a new guy cause one of our team was heading back home (canadian) so we post a job app, get about 140 replies. 80% are useless of course, but that still leaves alot of qualified apps.

So, what to do....hmmmm, do you like unix or oracle? :) Seriously, if I could give anyone career advice, stay away from networking (there are so many of us already) and head towards things like unix/oracle. Those kind of environments are always breaking, fuckin up, so you are always busy and always look like you are doing something. In networking, once things are up and running, its very very rare (unless there is some kind of sploit) for you to have trouble on your network.This can lead to long periods of downtime, which is always awkward when you try to justify your existance to the higher ups and they always tend to hold the axe of the network guys longer than anyone else, I mean, using their logic, if its been flawless for 6 months, surely it will last another six months (truth be told, probably will) but then, the investment in us is lower than the cost of a collosal snafu on the network, so its a uneasy standoff.

So yeah, get some unix knowledge (and people will laugh at this, but learn AIX, every major bank or basically any company that earns tonnes of money will use it as they always get in IBM consulting. Plus AIX isn't that bad) and if I can stress anything, learn some oracle as well. Life will be much easier :)

Cheers mate.
 
good advice man. ive been learning linux a lot, but i dont have a copy of aix/unix to mess around with (all the same tho really). your right about oracle tho, it seems theyre getting bigger and bigger.
 
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