Career Change to Database work, looking for advice

[Operaghost]

I'm 31 years old. I've worked in a kitchen all my life. I've realized recently that the ceiling in my current industry is too low and I need to earn more money if I'm ever going to send my daughter to college.

So I've decided to make a career change. I've always found IT intriguing and fancy myself somewhat a novice when it comes to the ins and outs of computers, networking, and technology in general.

I'm thinking about getting into database design, security and eventually admin. The problem is I have zero work experience in the field in the last decade. My last related job was working in a call center to support satellite clients for Hughs Networks Systems, but I was a punk kid back then.

I'm basically looking for advice on what type of a degree I should pursue. What type of entry level job should I expect to be attainable once I receive said degree. Is there anything I can do in the meantime to help get my foot in the door once I'm ready to hunt for a new job?

Any and all advice or feedback is welcome, these are uncharted waters for me.

 

[NetJunkie]

First, switch your order. You don't do design and then eventually admin. You do admin and then eventually design.

 

[C7J0yc3]

The first question is do you have a degree to begin with? If so then it isn't worth getting another one. If you don't have a degree already then one in general IT, or systems administration would be fine. Alternatively just get a business degree and take a few DB classes on the side and pursue an MCITP MS SQL 2010 or Oracle cert.

As NetJunkie stated admin is the first stage. Getting your foot in the door as a general windows admin then migrating your way over to be a DBA then working up in the world from there. General sysadmins make between 30-60k/year depending on your market, DBAs I usually see making between 45-100 and anything above DBA depends on the market and the work. For instance an Oracle architect will make much more then a SQL guy just because the skill set is more sought after.

Databases bring together three big things. Storage, network, and host. Host could be a single physical box, or a virtual cluster. You don't have to be a VCP4 with a CCNA and be an EMC wiz to also DBA, there are people on your team who will handle those things for you, however if you are in a small shop you should know how to do lots of that stuff on your own so you can properly administrate your databases as well as troubleshoot performance issues.

 

[Operaghost]

Well that goes to show you I have a lot to learn.

I do not have any degrees, so what would be the best degree for me to pursue? Comp Sci? Information Sci? I don't even know what half of those acronyms you used are. Other than DBA and CCNA. Would a sys admin, be like a NOC position? That seems like its more network oriented.

You said the three big tihngs are Storage, network and Host. But wouldn't Storage and Host be kind of synonymous? I realize I'm completely green to these things.

Right now I'm just trying to figure out.
A. What type of job I want from the degree I pursue.
and
B. What degree to pursue to help me land that job I want.

 

[adam30k]

System administrator can do a lot of different things based on the company you are at, it especially varies based on the company size. I'm sure others will comment here but also check out career sites and read some job summaries out there. Will give you a rough idea on what some jobs are like and what companies are asking for degree/cert/experience wise.

 

[nOrVow]

Ask yourself this. What do you want to do, specifically? Do you want plan, design, and deploy networking or server infrastructures from scratch? That'll be Network/Systems engineering. Want to administrate and configure existing infrastructures? Go for administration. Networking security? Go for your CCNA: Security (hardware) or CEH (Pen-testing/Software). I'd suggest figuring out what you'd want and love to do, then plan accordingly. I'm a student perusing Systems Engineering, so I'm heading for my MCSE and RHCE for example.

Job duties also overlap one another in IT as well, depend on the companies needs (as stated above). i've seen sysadmin do netadmin or DBA work, and nice versa. So keep that in mind.

For degrees, although it is good to have (and some companies make it mandatory), it doesn't really matter whether you have one or not. With just experience, and a few certs, you can land yourself a job. But for the sake of your question, I'd suggest Information Systems or Computer Science. CIS is more hands on I believe. CS is more theory than hands on, but its the most commonly accepted degree.

if i were you, i'd pick some A+ and MCDBA textbooks, and lab it up, with an internship. I know its never too late to go to college, but 31? Damn bro. lol

 

[Fint]

You said the three big things are Storage, network and Host. But wouldn't Storage and Host be kind of synonymous? I realize I'm completely green to these things.

In big computer system, storage is on separate device (called a SAN); its kinda like a computer filled with hard drives, that all it does is control the hard drives. The Hosts attach the the SAN, and access the drives via either very fast Ethernet (10 Gigabit, or faster) or via Fiber Channel. This way, if you need more storage, but your server is meeting your needs, you only have to replace/upgrade the storage part, and not the entire thing. Plus multiple servers can access the same SAN, and pool storage in one area.

 

[robvas]

If you're going to go to school, why not get a degree in cooking or hospitality? That way you don't end up 'wasting' all your experience.

 

[Operaghost]

Because I don't want to stay in the industry I'm in.

The ceiling for income is about 60k, and while I'd be content earning that much, I'd prefer to earn it in a different field.

If you must know why:
1. Working in a kitchen is very harsh on the body. I'm 31 and already have major joint pains
2. Working in the kitchen you don't get shit for time off, ask a chef when was the last time he took a sick day.
3. To make the above 60k, in most cases that would require working 60 hours or more a week
4. Most jobs in the industry require you to work a lot of holidays and weekends

 

[TechLarry]

Here is what would concern me...

First, I'm a little concerned that what you are looking at might be a bit saturated already.

Another problem is this is one of those area's that is quickly becoming an off-shore job (India).

Third, you would probably have to deal with Oracle, and thus shower 4 times a day so you don't feel funky.

The only place I really see any opportunities for this are in a corporate in-house development center, but you would have to have years of experience before they would even look at your resume. I will say that some of the corporate designs I've seen would tend to challenge that requirement, mainly because they let their coders design the User interfaces (you never, ever EVER do that if you want an easy to use product).

And of course it's entirely possible I'm totally wrong and talking out my ass, but I don't think so.

I'm 31 years old. I've worked in a kitchen all my life. I've realized recently that the ceiling in my current industry is too low and I need to earn more money if I'm ever going to send my daughter to college.

So I've decided to make a career change. I've always found IT intriguing and fancy myself somewhat a novice when it comes to the ins and outs of computers, networking, and technology in general.

I'm thinking about getting into database design, security and eventually admin. The problem is I have zero work experience in the field in the last decade. My last related job was working in a call center to support satellite clients for Hughs Networks Systems, but I was a punk kid back then.

I'm basically looking for advice on what type of a degree I should pursue. What type of entry level job should I expect to be attainable once I receive said degree. Is there anything I can do in the meantime to help get my foot in the door once I'm ready to hunt for a new job?

Any and all advice or feedback is welcome, these are uncharted waters for me.

 

[adam30k]

It goes without saying that IT can still involve working overtime, off hours and emergency on call shifts, but it's still not the same as the restaurant life.

 

[C7J0yc3]

If you must know why:
1. Working in a kitchen is very harsh on the body. I'm 31 and already have major joint pains

Working in IT there isn't a lot of the physical issues of constantly working standing up and in a hot environment, however the stress can get to people very quickly. "Burnout" is very common in the industry.

2. Working in the kitchen you don't get shit for time off, ask a chef when was the last time he took a sick day.

Welcome to IT. The network works 24/7 and so do we. Just because you are on vacation, or sick doesn't mean you are "unreachable." I have spent more then one vacation in my hotel room the entire time because we had an emergency and I had to work on it remotely. I have also spent multiple days where I was told to go home because I was too sick to work, however once I got there turn on my skype so I could join a con call.

3. To make the above 60k, in most cases that would require working 60 hours or more a week

The average admin will work a 50-70 hour week just as part of the job. And most of that time isn't just stay a couple hours after work or a couple hours before. We are talking you are doing maintenance from 10:30 to 2am and still expected to be at work at 8am. You are working your whole weekend. Last month between an outage, and then rebuilding that customers network so that the outage would never happen again I worked an average of 73 hours a week including two weekends in a row of 50 hours with no sleep. Now I do have the luxury of working from home which is nice, but even still it isn't a standard 9-5 office job.

4. Most jobs in the industry require you to work a lot of holidays and weekends

No different in IT. like I said above the network works 24/7/365 and so do we. Now there are some jobs in the industry that don't require working crazy hours but any time you do maintenance it is at night or on the weekends. When stuff breaks, it is usually at night or on the weekend. If you are on call, that cell rings and you drop what you are doing and get to work.

As far as the income ceiling, goes. For the first 5 years of being in the industry making more then about $45,000 is just not going to happen. You are the low man, you have no experience, and you are going to be the guy that everything gets dumped on. After your 5 years you will start to raise above the $45,000 barrier and move away from the grunt work into what you actually want to do (and get paid accordingly). Now if you are looking to fast track yourself to the $100k mark then instead of database you should go to school for business with a minor in IT, and get an IT manager job, then move to a director level, and then eventually a CIO, however doing those jobs are less about actually doing IT work, and more about managing people equipment and budget.

Now don't let my post above fool you, I love my job and I love the industry I work in. I will be hitting the 5 year mark this year and that is about to open the door to a lot of possibilities. I get to play with some of the coolest gear in the industry, meet some really awesome people, and have full access to some very restricted areas. On my security side I get paid to be a thief, a crook and a cheat. I get paid to go to conferences to rub shoulders with some very important people in the industry. At 21 I don't know another industry in which I would get to do more or make more then I do now, however there are some very real limitations in the industry and many moves you make will be lateral instead of up.

 

[Madnes5]

I'm not going to say that a degree is useless but in most IT jobs (excluding programming) work experience is FAR more important than a degree. In fact, if you do get a degree and you weren't getting practical experience while you were doing it, you're going to be very close to the same position as if you didn't even bother. Plus you'll have the added debt.

It sounds to me like you have some idea as to what you'd like to do but you're not positive. I could be wrong but the fact that you throw out DBA and Security somewhat worries me as those are the "hot" skills right now and we see a lot of people thinking they want to get into those fields because they think it's some panacea and life will be good if they could only make $money per year. If you're thinking like that, I'd caution you to really consider your priorities.

Here's Madnes5' three career guidelines:
1. Do something you enjoy. If you find a job you enjoy doing you'll be less likely to burn yourself out and be forced to look for _another_ career a decade from now. Your day to day work life will be much more enjoyable. Finally and most importantly, because you enjoy what you do you'll be willing and able to keep your skills up date and on top of industry
2. Do something you're good at. If you pick a job because it pays well, you're unlikely to ever be great at your job. You may be good. But you'll always be at the bottom when compared against your peers who ARE good at their job. Each job has it's skills that help make someone better at it. For programming it's often puzzles and problem solving. For security it's being skeptical, sometimes pessimistic, a general curiosity about computers. For me, I have some personality traits that make me naturally good at security. I also work with people who like and want to be in security but they just don't have the natural ability to ever be great. That's not necessarily bad. But they're destined to a life of mediocre positions within security. Come lay off time, I'm not worried. But I'm worried for them. If you find what you're good at you'll excel.
3. Find a career that pays enough. Not a lot. Enough. The difference between $100k/year and $120/year is not much. But as far as jobs it can be huge. If you like doing UNIX admin and you're good at it and enjoy it, don't give that up because you think being a DBA pays more. That may be true right now but it may be completely false five years from now. The good news is that most jobs in IT if you're good and have some experience should easily pay the 60k/year you're looking for.

So now that I've ranted here's my advice:

Go build a website

Almost everyone can come up with an idea for a website. Everyone has some hobby.

- Go register a domain.
- Rent a colocated server of VPS.
- Configure the OS and install Apache or IIS
- Either build your own DNS server or at the very least configure DNS for your domain so you can use mail
- Configure your own mail server or set up forwarding so mail works.

Now you've got experience doing system administration. You know whats involved and you'll have something to put on your resume for practical experience.

- Design and build your website.
- Considering trying to create a few graphics yourself.

Now you've got some basic experience as a webmaster. Another resume bullet point.

- Create a script for your website using PHP/ASP/C#/Something

Now you've got some programming experience. Yet another resume bullet point.

- Try and secure your server and website. Research XSS, SQL injection, etc

Now you've got some security experience. Your resume is looking pretty good now.

- Go promote your website. Read up on Google analytics and SEO.

Now you've got SEO experience.

Once you've done all that, what did you enjoy doing the most? What were you good at? Look for local user groups. Read books on the subject. Start working towards a recognizable certification. Look for jobs for "entry level x". Get your foot in the door at some company and start working your way up.

 

[da sponge]

It goes without saying that IT can still involve working overtime, off hours and emergency on call shifts, but it's still not the same as the restaurant life.

Exactly. As someone in IT with friends in the restaurant business, it's nowhere near the same type of demands. I can ask for a week and a half off without a problem. It's tough for my restaurant friends to get two consecutive days off, let alone a week. Their hours are often ridiculous and well in excess of 40/wk (and it's often grueling work).

 

[Operaghost]

Thank you Madnes5 for your response. I found it very helpful and informative. I will try some of the stuff you listed to see what I think. I am on a tight budget though. Perhaps you could suggest how to get some of these tools cheap? As well as inexpensive domain/servers?

I especially agreed with your career guidelines. I'm not looking to get as rich as I can, there are much more important things in life than money. I don't need to make 100k. I just want to earn a respectable income so that I can provide for my daughter properly. I'd be quite content with a job paying 60-70k.

Exactly. As someone in IT with friends in the restaurant business, it's nowhere near the same type of demands. I can ask for a week and a half off without a problem. It's tough for my restaurant friends to get two consecutive days off, let alone a week. Their hours are often ridiculous and well in excess of 40/wk (and it's often grueling work).

Thank you Sponge for pointing this out. While I am not saying that IT jobs aren't demanding in a sense of mental stress, time off, or hours worked, etc. You can not compare it to the food service industry. It's not in the same ballpark. It's not even the same sport. But lets not highjack this thread. It's not meant to compare one field to another. This is about my decision to change careers.

I was thinking about a comment made above. Maybe I should get a degree in business management, and throw in some IT courses/certs along with it. I have a bit of management experience in the kitchen.

What types of jobs would I be looking at in the IT field with a business management degree supplemented with IT knowledge?

 

[C7J0yc3]

What types of jobs would I be looking at in the IT field with a business management degree supplemented with IT knowledge?

All of them. A lot of the guys I am currently working with went to school for a business degree. The difference between that and someone who went to school for a strictly IT degree is that when you are up for promotion / interview to a manager or above level position you are more likely to get the job then the guy with only IT experience because you not only understand how IT works, but you understand how the business side works.

To be honest the interview panels I have been on have not cared about what degree you got. So long as you went to college (if it is required for the position) that's all that matters. Your experience and certs matter more then what you spent 4 years studying.

Also no matter what you do INTERN OR CO-OP. I can not stress that enough. If you spend 4 years going to college to get a degree and don't get any relevant experience while you are doing it (and NO class projects do not count. We are talking real life production environment experience) you will end up getting dropped into the job market earning less then you are now, with a huge pile of debt on your back.

 

[Madnes5]

Thank you Madnes5 for your response. I found it very helpful and informative. I will try some of the stuff you listed to see what I think. I am on a tight budget though. Perhaps you could suggest how to get some of these tools cheap? As well as inexpensive domain/servers?

You can purchase a domain through GoDaddy or one of the many other registrars for around $10/year last I checked. You can rent a cheap VPS for around $10/month. I'd check WebHostingTalk.com and find a budget VPS. You don't really need anything powerful until you start serving lots of people. Use Apache/PHP/PostgreSQL/Bind/Sendmail are all free/open source software that you can use.

Or you could just build this all on a home computer. There isn't anything that says you have to serve your website to others. You could find a cheap/free computer on Craigslist, install Linux and build everything for essentially free.

 

[Operaghost]

Also no matter what you do INTERN OR CO-OP. I can not stress that enough. If you spend 4 years going to college to get a degree and don't get any relevant experience while you are doing it (and NO class projects do not count. We are talking real life production environment experience) you will end up getting dropped into the job market earning less then you are now, with a huge pile of debt on your back.

Thats going to be hard for me to do. I'm not a full time student. I'm a full time parent with rent and other bills to pay. I work 50-55 hours a week as is. I'm not going to get a degree in 4 years, it will probably take me 5 or 6 since I'm only going to be able to manage a couple courses per semester.

You can purchase a domain through GoDaddy or one of the many other registrars for around $10/year last I checked. You can rent a cheap VPS for around $10/month. I'd check WebHostingTalk.com and find a budget VPS. You don't really need anything powerful until you start serving lots of people. Use Apache/PHP/PostgreSQL/Bind/Sendmail are all free/open source software that you can use.

Or you could just build this all on a home computer. There isn't anything that says you have to serve your website to others. You could find a cheap/free computer on Craigslist, install Linux and build everything for essentially free.

I already feel like I'm in over my head and I haven't even started yet. It sounds like there are so many software programs one must learn to use, I don't even know where to begin. Unix, Linux, SQL, Oracle, etc etc.

 

[adam30k]

You could look into two year colleges, work on a degree at a more affordable school then consider doing your bachelor's degree part-time while working. I have to reiterate getting relevant work experience while you're still in school. It will really take you farther. Do what you can do in your situation but keep it in mind. Even if it's just networking with students and faculty. (The faculty at my school have a lot of connections with local companies and a lot of companies come to the school when they want to fill particular positions, a lot of the faculty also freelance in various IT capacities)

Thats going to be hard for me to do. I'm not a full time student. I'm a full time parent with rent and other bills to pay. I work 50-55 hours a week as is. I'm not going to get a degree in 4 years, it will probably take me 5 or 6 since I'm only going to be able to manage a couple courses per semester.

I already feel like I'm in over my head and I haven't even started yet. It sounds like there are so many software programs one must learn to use, I don't even know where to begin. Unix, Linux, SQL, Oracle, etc etc.

 

[adam30k]

Even on the desktop/server side you can do so much experimentation nowadays thanks to vitualization and high speed Internet. I have a friend who remembers learning Active Directory by reserving servers in particular classrooms on campus and making sure no one turned them off on the weekends.

I'm not going to say that a degree is useless but in most IT jobs (excluding programming) work experience is FAR more important than a degree. In fact, if you do get a degree and you weren't getting practical experience while you were doing it, you're going to be very close to the same position as if you didn't even bother. Plus you'll have the added debt.

 

[squishy]

I already feel like I'm in over my head and I haven't even started yet. It sounds like there are so many software programs one must learn to use, I don't even know where to begin. Unix, Linux, SQL, Oracle, etc etc.

Your thread has made me glad I started in 94

You're in a tough position.If you really want to dive into db admin and later into design, install and learn a standard LAMP configuration (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP).

Find what you enjoy, but you can't find that out until you start playing with stuff. I'd say that's a good place to start and quite frankly you could build a career just out of mastering those particular pieces of software.

 

[Operaghost]

Thanks squishy. That sounds like a good starting point.
I tried to get my MCSE when I graduated high school in 98, but I was a punk kid and wasn't focused. Ended up wasting 5 grand on that. I wish I knew back then what I know now. Would have been a completely different story. Anyways, can't change the past, so here I am. Behind the eight ball.

Next question:
What kind of Linux distribution do I want? There are so many..

 

[squishy]

The past is in the past and the only thing you can do is move forward

Most (many) shops use CentOS or RHEL. CentOS is essentially the community version of RHEL.

They're all basically the same (sort of). The main differences are how they handle packages and where things live. Even if you learn CentOS/RHEL it really doesn't take very long to get up to speed on say a Ubuntu box. The concepts are the same, they just use slightly different packages (and a different format) and put stuff (configuration mostly) in different places.

If I'm building an internal engineering or personal fun LAMP config I use CentOS. If it's in a production environment, I tend to run RHEL, though I have a ton of CentOS boxes in production as well.

 

[robvas]

And do CentOS the right way, don't just disable the firewall and shut off SELinux!