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xenonightx
n00b
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2011
- Messages
- 3
Hi there, my name is Ryan and I'm from Paris, TX. How I came to you is a long story, but I need your help. I just moved to this city and asked one of the movers we hired where a good machine/racing shop was, that I had a power/grounding project for my car. It turned out that he was a computer programmer by trade and also a motorcycle enthusiast. He gave me a shop that turned out to be a good one. As for my power questions, given that so many folks are doing carputers these days, that you guys were the ones to talk to. The people that do it have vehicle electrical systems down pat.
Background: My car is a 2003 Toyota Matrix XRS. It has a highly tuned stock engine in it with a stock ECU that chooses between 47 different base maps and has 5 +/- banks based on different sensor vaules. It is absoultely vital that the sensors are recieving the correct voltages in order for the engine to run at maximum efficiency. Although it runs, I want it to run as best as it can, even with high-drain accessories running.
Solution: Minimize electrical interference, noise and voltage fluctuations. Doing my research I have found that a star hub grounding system is the best way to minimize interference and noise, and larger capacity cable and clean connections are good ways to minimize fluctuations. It will be done right with 300amp 1/0awg and 150amp 4awg pure oxygen free copper cable, 7% silver 93% tin rosin flux core solder, clean copper solder-on terminals, shrink tubing, paint on weatherproofing and a 6" x 3/8" C10100 copper circular grounding hub connected at the negative battery terminal of a sealed gel cell battery. The positive terminal will have a 1/0awg cable to the alternator, and a 4awg to the starter. The 4awg grounds coming from the hub will go to every single common ground point on the car via the shortest reasonable path, and be isolated from the frame by nylon bolts and spacers, as well as adding a 1/0awg to the alternator housing, and another 1/0awg to the engine block.
Overview: I have looked at many different power and ground solutions and I've tried to take what is best and create the optimal power solution for a vehicle. My system is designed with maximum electrical performance in mind, and the ability to add additional terminals and upgrades if needed, (HIDs, Amps, H/O alternator, etc.) The idea is to give every component a single optimal path for current to flow along, and most importantly doing it right the first time! I want this electrical scheme to be as good as it gets as it will eventually be used with a stand-alone ECU using wideband sensors, when it will be even more critical to receive the most accurate electrical values. I do need some help clearing a few things up though.
My Questions/Dilemmas:
1. Maybe you noticed that I did not mention a 1/0awg ground running from the chassis to the negative battery terminal (part of the famous big 3 upgrade). If I were to ground each factory common ground point directly to the hub at the negative battery terminal, I expect that I would not even need a negative to chassis ground, but I am not 100% on that. What would I need to do or to figure out, to safely eliminate the terrible ground which is the chassis?
2. This one kind of ties in with 1. There are a few common ground points in the engine bay which are bolted directly to the cylinder head. I'm not sure why they are attached to the engine and not the chassis. I don't know whether it is necessary that they are placed there, or if its just a way for the manufacturer to cheapen the vehicle production cost. This question involves whether it would be would be best to isolate those from the engine as well to make a single low noise path back to the ground hub or if it is possible that there is a real reason these grounds must be attached to the engine?
3. The factory engine to battery ground is located in a very strange position, not on the head itself but rather on a thin piece of metal between the clutch housing and the manual transmission. I have no idea why it is here, and I am positive that relocating it to a position on the cylinder head would be a cleaner electrical path for key componets and have a benefit to the electrical system. My question is similar to 2: could there be a real reason the engine to battery ground is located here and not the engine block?
4. This one ties in with 1 and 3. There seems to be an extraneous ground point on the firewall to the manual transmission. This seems like nothing more than a source of interference, and I need to know with the ground system described, if it is even necessary to run a cable to the point on the chassis, or even to the transmission?
5. Is there anything more I can safely do to clean up the electrical pathways on the positive side of the battery?
I've got a buddy with a Porsche 911 turbo, who has similar trouble, and has attempted to clean and recconnect the common ground points on his car, and has come to the same conclusion that I have: the chassis is a terrible way to ground a high performance vehicle, and I would like to eliminate it if at all possible. I have been doing my best to research this topic, but I am no expert electrician, and it seems that many car enthusiasts have done similar projects but not to the extent that I am willing to go. Race cars have similar wiring to what I am going to attempt, but not nearly the amount of electronic accessories that my daily driver has. I have the repair manual wiring diagrams, but they are difficult for me to read. I can say with certainty though that the points I am referring to as common ground points are indeed the common ground points, and the locations are all accurate, so I know I wont fry anything that way.
I just want to know that I am doing it right, and the best it can be done, with no problems. I will answer any and all questions, and I am open to any and all suggestions, cautions, warnings, thoughts, complaints, etc. Feel free to shoot me full of holes, or to propose something better, I'll take no offense. I am coming to you all because I can't find the answers anywhere else. I have the wiring manual, and I'll be more than happy to send pdfs, pictures of the car or what ever else you need if you are willing to help me. I thank you for reading this post, and I thank you in advance for your time.
-Ryan
Background: My car is a 2003 Toyota Matrix XRS. It has a highly tuned stock engine in it with a stock ECU that chooses between 47 different base maps and has 5 +/- banks based on different sensor vaules. It is absoultely vital that the sensors are recieving the correct voltages in order for the engine to run at maximum efficiency. Although it runs, I want it to run as best as it can, even with high-drain accessories running.
Solution: Minimize electrical interference, noise and voltage fluctuations. Doing my research I have found that a star hub grounding system is the best way to minimize interference and noise, and larger capacity cable and clean connections are good ways to minimize fluctuations. It will be done right with 300amp 1/0awg and 150amp 4awg pure oxygen free copper cable, 7% silver 93% tin rosin flux core solder, clean copper solder-on terminals, shrink tubing, paint on weatherproofing and a 6" x 3/8" C10100 copper circular grounding hub connected at the negative battery terminal of a sealed gel cell battery. The positive terminal will have a 1/0awg cable to the alternator, and a 4awg to the starter. The 4awg grounds coming from the hub will go to every single common ground point on the car via the shortest reasonable path, and be isolated from the frame by nylon bolts and spacers, as well as adding a 1/0awg to the alternator housing, and another 1/0awg to the engine block.
Overview: I have looked at many different power and ground solutions and I've tried to take what is best and create the optimal power solution for a vehicle. My system is designed with maximum electrical performance in mind, and the ability to add additional terminals and upgrades if needed, (HIDs, Amps, H/O alternator, etc.) The idea is to give every component a single optimal path for current to flow along, and most importantly doing it right the first time! I want this electrical scheme to be as good as it gets as it will eventually be used with a stand-alone ECU using wideband sensors, when it will be even more critical to receive the most accurate electrical values. I do need some help clearing a few things up though.
My Questions/Dilemmas:
1. Maybe you noticed that I did not mention a 1/0awg ground running from the chassis to the negative battery terminal (part of the famous big 3 upgrade). If I were to ground each factory common ground point directly to the hub at the negative battery terminal, I expect that I would not even need a negative to chassis ground, but I am not 100% on that. What would I need to do or to figure out, to safely eliminate the terrible ground which is the chassis?
2. This one kind of ties in with 1. There are a few common ground points in the engine bay which are bolted directly to the cylinder head. I'm not sure why they are attached to the engine and not the chassis. I don't know whether it is necessary that they are placed there, or if its just a way for the manufacturer to cheapen the vehicle production cost. This question involves whether it would be would be best to isolate those from the engine as well to make a single low noise path back to the ground hub or if it is possible that there is a real reason these grounds must be attached to the engine?
3. The factory engine to battery ground is located in a very strange position, not on the head itself but rather on a thin piece of metal between the clutch housing and the manual transmission. I have no idea why it is here, and I am positive that relocating it to a position on the cylinder head would be a cleaner electrical path for key componets and have a benefit to the electrical system. My question is similar to 2: could there be a real reason the engine to battery ground is located here and not the engine block?
4. This one ties in with 1 and 3. There seems to be an extraneous ground point on the firewall to the manual transmission. This seems like nothing more than a source of interference, and I need to know with the ground system described, if it is even necessary to run a cable to the point on the chassis, or even to the transmission?
5. Is there anything more I can safely do to clean up the electrical pathways on the positive side of the battery?
I've got a buddy with a Porsche 911 turbo, who has similar trouble, and has attempted to clean and recconnect the common ground points on his car, and has come to the same conclusion that I have: the chassis is a terrible way to ground a high performance vehicle, and I would like to eliminate it if at all possible. I have been doing my best to research this topic, but I am no expert electrician, and it seems that many car enthusiasts have done similar projects but not to the extent that I am willing to go. Race cars have similar wiring to what I am going to attempt, but not nearly the amount of electronic accessories that my daily driver has. I have the repair manual wiring diagrams, but they are difficult for me to read. I can say with certainty though that the points I am referring to as common ground points are indeed the common ground points, and the locations are all accurate, so I know I wont fry anything that way.
I just want to know that I am doing it right, and the best it can be done, with no problems. I will answer any and all questions, and I am open to any and all suggestions, cautions, warnings, thoughts, complaints, etc. Feel free to shoot me full of holes, or to propose something better, I'll take no offense. I am coming to you all because I can't find the answers anywhere else. I have the wiring manual, and I'll be more than happy to send pdfs, pictures of the car or what ever else you need if you are willing to help me. I thank you for reading this post, and I thank you in advance for your time.
-Ryan
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