Can Windows 10 Survive In A World Of Free Operating Systems

[LigTasm]

Fair ... and I do understand your point. Yes having 1001 options show up if you search "linux" doesn't help grandma install it Or the average windows person who starts with a "Linux" google search. Its just my (and most Linux die hards) opinion that choice is good, and I would never install on my home machine the same ditros I install for people on workstations ect. Its like having 1000s of customised installs, which is nice if you use Linux for more then just your basic home desktop setup.

What its bad for is getting and maintaining new users. The "common" linux distros for newbies have becomes just as infested with crap and bloatware as a new HP or Acer and they're still not particularly easy to do certain things on (even 10 years later I STILL have to install on a second Nvidia GPU computer to have display on my old laptop with dual graphics chips built in).

 

[ChadD]

What its bad for is getting and maintaining new users. The "common" linux distros for newbies have becomes just as infested with crap and bloatware as a new HP or Acer and they're still not particularly easy to do certain things on (even 10 years later I STILL have to install on a second Nvidia GPU computer to have display on my old laptop with dual graphics chips built in).

I do understand the point. I don't disagree all the choice does make it hard for newer people to pick through. It would be nice if there was a "coral Linux"..... Ubuntu is likely the closes. Of course as everyone that wants to try linux finds out Most Linux people can't stand Ubuntu. lol I know the Linux community doesn't always work in its best interest for mass consumption.

Mint is the closest I believe there is to a perfect first install distro. The bloat really isn't bad Mint XFCE is a 1.6GB image and that includes Libre ect, I honestly can't think of anything included that I would consider bloat... of course it all uninstalls clean with one click. So I don't find the claims of some distros being bloated to be that big a deal. (I will say some of the workstation distros if you go for a full download they are getting pretty silly... But Fedora and Suse both have great clean net install options that can be all in under 1gb installed with a basic desktop)

GPUs... you are completely right. That is the biggest hurdle right now imo. Mint does a great job of identifying most of that stuff... not sure if you would have that issue or not. (it is completely possible you would). If you haven't tried them Mint... or Manjaro have very good hardware detection and will use Non-Free Manufacturer drivers. If you haven't tried the Arch Based Manjaro, its has very good hardware detection.

I know we can always find specific software here and there that don't work as slick as they should. I have always found though that if it was something important to me... if I checked back a few months later someone took care of it. More and more that taking care is being done by the manufacturers. Linux hasn't been ready to really go head to head with MS ever as an every day desktop machine.... but I think its getting pretty darn close at this point. The more people that start using it... the faster things will start snowballing as I see it. I would say that is already what is happening. For years Linux was "neck beard" grade because the only people using it where other NBs. More and more its starting to get real money behind the development, and real money behind the use in terms of workstation use... the pace of improvement has been picking up.

 

[jwcalla]

That's the sad reality. Desktop Linux is only free if your time to constantly play around with it is free. I know there are some people who have low requirements and it works fine with little or no fuss, but this is [H] and we're generally not web surfing grannies.

Did you buy a Dell or build your own system?

 

[LigTasm]

I do understand the point. I don't disagree all the choice does make it hard for newer people to pick through. It would be nice if there was a "coral Linux"..... Ubuntu is likely the closes. Of course as everyone that wants to try linux finds out Most Linux people can't stand Ubuntu. lol I know the Linux community doesn't always work in its best interest for mass consumption.

Mint is the closest I believe there is to a perfect first install distro. The bloat really isn't bad Mint XFCE is a 1.6GB image and that includes Libre ect, I honestly can't think of anything included that I would consider bloat... of course it all uninstalls clean with one click. So I don't find the claims of some distros being bloated to be that big a deal. (I will say some of the workstation distros if you go for a full download they are getting pretty silly... But Fedora and Suse both have great clean net install options that can be all in under 1gb installed with a basic desktop)

GPUs... you are completely right. That is the biggest hurdle right now imo. Mint does a great job of identifying most of that stuff... not sure if you would have that issue or not. (it is completely possible you would). If you haven't tried them Mint... or Manjaro have very good hardware detection and will use Non-Free Manufacturer drivers. If you haven't tried the Arch Based Manjaro, its has very good hardware detection.

I know we can always find specific software here and there that don't work as slick as they should. I have always found though that if it was something important to me... if I checked back a few months later someone took care of it. More and more that taking care is being done by the manufacturers. Linux hasn't been ready to really go head to head with MS ever as an every day desktop machine.... but I think its getting pretty darn close at this point. The more people that start using it... the faster things will start snowballing as I see it. I would say that is already what is happening. For years Linux was "neck beard" grade because the only people using it where other NBs. More and more its starting to get real money behind the development, and real money behind the use in terms of workstation use... the pace of improvement has been picking up.

If GPU drivers were better and there were more game support I would ditch Windows forever. I'm already about to move to a win 7 install with updates disabled for games dual booting with Mint for web stuff. Windows 10 AU is nothing but problems for me and I'm sick of it.

 

[dragonstongue]

Microsoft is listening to its users, building solutions across platforms, and working hard on building better products.

LMFAO, I guess locking people out of their own OS, spying/selling that information, and forcing driver updates with very few ways of NOT allowing it must be listening to their customers, I suppose we the customer have also said we wanted that old crappy start menu and control panel removed along with support for legacy titles.....LMFAO they really really have no blood clue.

 

[ChadD]

If GPU drivers were better and there were more game support I would ditch Windows forever. I'm already about to move to a win 7 install with updates disabled for games dual booting with Mint for web stuff. Windows 10 AU is nothing but problems for me and I'm sick of it.

I did something like that myself not long ago. I have been a linux guy for a long time, but I kept a windows part for a long time for games. I booted over to my windows drive a few months back, after not using it for a few weeks and MS had updated a bunch of junk and I had to spend a bunch of time putting things back... I just said screw it, if I didn't miss it for a few weeks I won't miss it at all. There are some games that I guess are a no go... to be honest though most of what I have wanted to play has been on my Steam anyway. I had been buying Linux friendly games for awhile before I left windows I guess. The DX9 and older games I still love run fine with wine, and honestly mostly I play Civ MOO and borderlands anyway which all runs with Linux Steam just fine. I'm not a big brand new game player any more I guess. The most demanding Newer titles I have are Bioshock and TalosP. Over the years I went from bleeding edge gamer, to not so much. (I know bioshock inf isn't the newest title around, runs silky smooth in Linux though, they did a good job on that port)

 

[LigTasm]

I did something like that myself not long ago. I have been a linux guy for a long time, but I kept a windows part for a long time for games. I booted over to my windows drive a few months back, after not using it for a few weeks and MS had updated a bunch of junk and I had to spend a bunch of time putting things back... I just said screw it, if I didn't miss it for a few weeks I won't miss it at all. There are some games that I guess are a no go... to be honest though most of what I have wanted to play has been on my Steam anyway and I have been buying Linux friendly games for awhile now I guess. The older DX9 and older games I still love run fine with wine, and honestly mostly I play Civ MOO and borderlands anyway which is all runs with Linux Steam just fine I guess I'm not a big brand new game player anyway I guess the most demanding Newer titles I have are Bioshock and TalosP anyway. I guess over the years I went from bleeding edge gamer, to not so much.

I'm not a brand new game player either but the ones I do play don't work with wine well enough to play at a competitive level. I'm waiting for that day for sure though.

MS has gone off the deep end, all they need is a monthly subscription fee to finish their userbase off.

 

[Stoly]

The very big difference, is that android is on my phone. All the information they can collect on that they're welcome to it. But I want my home computer to be private. But most importantly to be mine. To do as I please. And not go home to find a new update has altered my settings, or removed features I used.

Wait what? You are ok with your phone being public but your pc must be private? You know, the phone has access to all your payment info, location, contacts, chats, pictures, videos, personal data, but that's ok...

 

[Stoly]

Samba - opening windows to a wider world
FreeIPA
Red Hat Directory Server

Its really not that hard to integrate or replace AD. Don't get me wrong nothing wrong with AD... but Its not going to save or doom Windows one way or another. There are plenty of very good options to do the same job with Linux, even open source ones.

Yes as a Linux booster clearly this article is odd. I don't think anyone expects windows to go the way of OS/2 or something tomorrow. Of course long term I believe Windows time with run out.

I think the only way that happens fast (over 2-3 years) is if Google makes it happen. The eventual open source OS win isn't likely to be a fast transition. Google however does have the $ and the possible market pull to make it happen faster. So of course MS is looking very closely and are concerned about Chrome. It wouldn't take very much polish for Google to shine Chrome up as a Windows killer. (I don't know if there is enough $ in the market to really tempt them to bother however) I mean do we really see Google dropping tons of Marketing Money, possibly throwing money at a bunch of the largest game publishers to support Chrome/Linux... and perhaps throw more money at manufacturers like Dell to get some a bunch factor shipped installs.

It sounds far fetched to me sure... cause ya its a rapidly shrinking market, and googles current version of Chrome is already getting a pretty good bite out of the portable market.

Still though I am sure MS could envision Google at some point, getting Steam up on a new version of Chrome... throwing around some $ to ensure a bunch off AAA games launch on steam when they hit the go button. Launch a line of Google branded New-Chrome laptops... and pay off a few of the bigs like Dell to offer Chrome OS. Then blitz the ad spaces for a few months and push "GoogleOS". (a "GoogleOS"... that would run on Everything. replacing Android and Chrome. Of course that gives the high ups at MS nightmares.)

Not likely, but of course MS has considered the possibility... and I am pretty sure Google has run those numbers at some point.

Yes its hard, and no there are no good options in Linux to do the same job. Otherwise everyone in the enterprise and their grandmother would have linux by now.

 

[M76]

Wait what? You are ok with your phone being public but your pc must be private? You know, the phone has access to all your payment info, location, contacts, chats, pictures, videos, personal data, but that's ok...

My phone has access to jack shit. And that's the way I like it. It doesn't even have access to the internet. Unless I need to check something, then I enable wifi or 3g for a minute then immediately turn it off. I'm fine with them knowing where my phone is. You don't need my phone to tell that I'm at work during the day. That's why I'm against any synchronization between my phone and my computer.
My usage pattern is so detached from the norm anyway, that they can't make heads or tails of it either way.

 

[ChadD]

Yes its hard, and no there are no good options in Linux to do the same job. Otherwise everyone in the enterprise and their grandmother would have linux by now.

Not sure you been looking around.... but.... ya Linux is starting to roll in that market in the same way it started rolling in the server market a few years back.

 

[sadsteve]

What is this nonsense? They might be listening to the users, but only to do the exact opposite of what they hear. I guess it was the users who asked for more "telemetry". It was also the user who asked for uncontrollable updates. And it was also the user who asked for features to be added or taken away at a whim, with no way of opting out. Users couldn't care less about cross platform solutions. It might be a good thing to some developers, but that is a very small fraction of people using windows.

I wouldn't call pushing upgrade like it was the vaccine for cancer humble either.

I'd have a few choice words with the "users" who asked for the uncustomizable, bland gui too.

I agree. Because of the issues you stated, I've migrated my laptop to Mint Linux (almost a year ago now). It runs all the major applications I used under Windows, but I have control. The only thing I do miss not having AutoHotKey.

 

[ChadD]

I agree. Because of the issues you stated, I've migrated my laptop to Mint Linux (almost a year ago now). It runs all the major applications I used under Windows, but I have control. The only thing I do miss not having AutoHotKey.

Sikuli Script

I never used either... I have heard this can be more powerful then AHK. I think its even in the mint repositories. Might be worth looking at anyway.

 

[sadsteve]

Sikuli Script

I never used either... I have heard this can be more powerful then AHK. I think its even in the mint repositories. Might be worth looking at anyway.

Thanks, I'll take a look.

 

[grtitan]

It doesn't happen, mainly, because people have being using the same software for 30 years now and it is kind of hard to break out of that.

Plus, it doesn't help that companies, like Adobe, are actually hostile towards linux.

Here is a little write up from a reddit user (Vitasmoderatum) , from his experience using Linux for one year:



Full thread here:

 

[sadsteve]

Wait what? You are ok with your phone being public but your pc must be private? You know, the phone has access to all your payment info, location, contacts, chats, pictures, videos, personal data, but that's ok...

Actually, my phone has very little of that. No payment info at all, 5 or 6 contacts, no chats, location is off, cellular data is off, wifi is off, no pictures, no videos, no personal data other than my email address.

I turned off cellular data since I almost never use it and I'm on a pay-as-you-go plan (costs about $70 a year!). I really only have a few uses for my cell phone: phone calls, alarm clock and calculator. I'd have stayed with a flip-phone but I wanted a decent scientific/progammers calculator App.

 

[kac77]

So, Microsoft should fear an OS that is directly created on ads and data mining? Good luck with that and the fact that Chrome OS will never reach the support and application level of Windows. (Let alone not ever be HIPPA compliant nor like Windows 7, which many here really, really want.)

As someone who works in the medical field the default settings in Windows are no more HIPAA compliant than any other OS.

 

[M76]

Actually, my phone has very little of that. No payment info at all, 5 or 6 contacts, no chats, location is off, cellular data is off, wifi is off, no pictures, no videos, no personal data other than my email address.

I turned off cellular data since I almost never use it and I'm on a pay-as-you-go plan (costs about $70 a year!). I really only have a few uses for my cell phone: phone calls, alarm clock and calculator. I'd have stayed with a flip-phone but I wanted a decent scientific/progammers calculator App.

Exactly. I use my phone for two things, ok, three. maybe four.

1. making and recieveing calls this one is kind of obvious this makes up about 90% of my usage
   
2. gps app in case I have to go to a new place. (definitely not google maps)
   
3. taking photos of company car odometers, to later write up the paperwork (google is very welcome to take that load off me, otherwise I don't know what can they do with photographs of car dashboards) Well occasionally I do take a few photos with it of other things if I don't have my dslr with me. But those photos are usually for commercial purposes too, so not too concerned with privacy.
   
4. when I'm at a mall and looking at sales I cross reference prices with net databases to find good deals.

That's the sum of my phone usage. No wonder my battery usually lasts 10-15 days.

Whatever google can learn about me based on that doesn't concern me.

 

[lcpiper]

This^^ There is nothing like AD not in linux not in iOS. AFAIK Apple is now targeting the enterprise so expect them to "invent" an AD solution.

With one problem.

You have a million industry people trained and experienced in AD and MS Enterprise Solutions, entire education and training business sectors to keep them trained or train new workers, and really there is a whole lot more like all the other tools and apps and scripting that has been done to allow people like me to get things done in Enterprise environments.

Apple trying to make a play for the AD scene is a tall order. Because so much relies on AD, so much would be effected by a replacement. If you develop a replacement that doesn't interrupt the entire Enterprise world, it will have a hard time standing up in court under legal challenge from Microsoft. This is certainly not an easy thing to do.

 

[Todd Walter]

This^^ There is nothing like AD not in linux not in iOS. AFAIK Apple is now targeting the enterprise so expect them to "invent" an AD solution.

AD is just MS' version of LDAP, which has been around forever. They released it as a direct response to Novell's Netware 4 setup. You can assign your permissions using LDAP or, for that matter, SAMBA works fine; I have it as a member server and can assign user permissions using accounts from our 2008 domain. Others have used is as an AD/GC without issue.

GPOs were used by MS to bolt-on security to an inherently insecure platform in a centralized manner. They are also wildly inconsistent in their application making them a lot less useful than they could be. This is a primary reason for using a standard platform and image.

 

[ChadD]

With one problem.

You have a million industry people trained and experienced in AD and MS Enterprise Solutions, entire education and training business sectors to keep them trained or train new workers, and really there is a whole lot more like all the other tools and apps and scripting that has been done to allow people like me to get things done in Enterprise environments.

Apple trying to make a play for the AD scene is a tall order. Because so much relies on AD, so much would be effected by a replacement. If you develop a replacement that doesn't interrupt the entire Enterprise world, it will have a hard time standing up in court under legal challenge from Microsoft. This is certainly not an easy thing to do.

Linux options already integrate with AD. I can't imagine Apple would have any more legal issues then those solutions. 389 Directory Server from Red Hat gets along just fine, its one of the biggest advantages on the Red Hat front. There are far fewer legal issues on this one then people believe, MS I don't believe invented much in regards to AD. Don't get me wrong I think Apples chances of ever making much headway into the enterprise market is slim.... but its not like AD creating a product that extends and syncs directly with AD is an issue legally. MS is not out suing companies making office products because their solution sells more units, AD isn't using a bunch of patented MS tech that I know of.

(for the record I have no idea how deep Apples current LDAP implementation goes. I won't admit to having used an Apple anything in years. However I do believe they have some form of LDAP already built into osx)

 

[Todd Walter]

Linux options already integrate with AD. I can't imagine Apple would have any more legal issues then those solutions. 389 Directory Server from Red Hat gets along just fine, its one of the biggest advantages on the Red Hat front. There are far fewer legal issues on this one then people believe, MS I don't believe invented much in regards to AD. Don't get me wrong I think Apples chances of ever making much headway into the enterprise market is slim.... but its not like AD creating a product that extends and syncs directly with AD is an issue legally. MS is not out suing companies making office products because their solution sells more units, AD isn't using a bunch of patented MS tech that I know of.

(for the record I have no idea how deep Apples current LDAP implementation goes. I won't admit to having used an Apple anything in years. However I do believe they have some form of LDAP already built into osx)

I believe they're using the SAMBA 3.6 branch in OSX Yosemite. I'll check when I get the chance but it was sufficient for file and print sharing.

 

[lcpiper]

Samba - opening windows to a wider world
FreeIPA
Red Hat Directory Server

Its really not that hard to integrate or replace AD. Don't get me wrong nothing wrong with AD... but Its not going to save or doom Windows one way or another. There are plenty of very good options to do the same job with Linux, even open source ones.

Yes as a Linux booster clearly this article is odd. I don't think anyone expects windows to go the way of OS/2 or something tomorrow. Of course long term I believe Windows time with run out.

I think the only way that happens fast (over 2-3 years) is if Google makes it happen. The eventual open source OS win isn't likely to be a fast transition. Google however does have the $ and the possible market pull to make it happen faster. So of course MS is looking very closely and are concerned about Chrome. It wouldn't take very much polish for Google to shine Chrome up as a Windows killer. (I don't know if there is enough $ in the market to really tempt them to bother however) I mean do we really see Google dropping tons of Marketing Money, possibly throwing money at a bunch of the largest game publishers to support Chrome/Linux... and perhaps throw more money at manufacturers like Dell to get some a bunch factor shipped installs.

It sounds far fetched to me sure... cause ya its a rapidly shrinking market, and googles current version of Chrome is already getting a pretty good bite out of the portable market.

Still though I am sure MS could envision Google at some point, getting Steam up on a new version of Chrome... throwing around some $ to ensure a bunch off AAA games launch on steam when they hit the go button. Launch a line of Google branded New-Chrome laptops... and pay off a few of the bigs like Dell to offer Chrome OS. Then blitz the ad spaces for a few months and push "GoogleOS". (a "GoogleOS"... that would run on Everything. replacing Android and Chrome. Of course that gives the high ups at MS nightmares.)

Not likely, but of course MS has considered the possibility... and I am pretty sure Google has run those numbers at some point.

Do you know who is MS biggest customer?

It's the US government. And if you have ever done IT work for any real period of time for the US government you'll know that they have MS on the brain.

 

[pxc]

Did you buy a Dell or build your own system?

What difference does that make to the points I brought up? Anyone who has actually run Linux and had to do all kinds of work to get hardware working right (as in not gimped), only to see it broken when the kernel is updated, understands the problem with needing to play around with Linux to keep it running*. OTOH, some people have basic hardware and low expectations (my example was a web browsing granny) and Linux may work fine through many updates.

But I'm repeating myself...

What's funny in a way is how even Linus Torvalds still admits that desktop Linux has major problems, but the tru-believers(TM) don't see any.

* I would 100% rather have a registry and "DLL hell" (mostly a problem with wasting storage space at this point on Windows), than hundreds of configuration files and library hell that can break Linux or many utilities/applications if an incompatible library is installed.

 

[heatlesssun]

It doesn't happen, mainly, because people have being using the same software for 30 years now and it is kind of hard to break out of that.

Plus, it doesn't help that companies, like Adobe, are actually hostile towards linux.

Here is a little write up from a reddit user (Vitasmoderatum) , from his experience using Linux for one year:



Full thread here:

What's interesting about this post is what's not mentioned. Like what games does he play or manage photos or videos or watch media or play music. Learning bash is cool, but not something that the average PC user is ever going to do and actually there's even support for that Windows 10 now.

 

[jlbenedict]

Windows to Linux is like me having Cricket phone service versus someone that is uninformed and their AT&T service..

Windows is cool.. since it costs $$... and Linux is shit, cause its free.. The reality is, peer pressure, social norms, and ignorance..

 

[Dr. Righteous]

Call me crazy but seems like the biggest rival to Windows has always been Apple, at least given statistics:

What metrics is it based on? How many PCs/laptops are SOLD with windows? The real question would be what OS is ACTUALLY running on the computers out there.

 

[Stoly]

Actually, my phone has very little of that. No payment info at all, 5 or 6 contacts, no chats, location is off, cellular data is off, wifi is off, no pictures, no videos, no personal data other than my email address.

I turned off cellular data since I almost never use it and I'm on a pay-as-you-go plan (costs about $70 a year!). I really only have a few uses for my cell phone: phone calls, alarm clock and calculator. I'd have stayed with a flip-phone but I wanted a decent scientific/progammers calculator App.

You can do the exact same things to windows.

 

[Archaea]

Isnt windows 10 like OSX nowadays? (you buy it once, just like OSX, buy the hardware once, then free upgrades)

.
OSX is free hardware --- until such arbitrary date that Apple decides the next large cat or mountain themed OSX variant shall no longer run on the hardware. It isn't an arbitrary hardware limitation. It's a forced obselecence.

 

[grtitan]

Do you know who is MS biggest customer?

It's the US government. And if you have ever done IT work for any real period of time for the US government you'll know that they have MS on the brain.

Given that they have free backdoor access to every windows install in the world, do you think that the US government will ever promote or allow Linux to gain marketshare?

 

[kac77]

What difference does that make to the points I brought up? Anyone who has actually run Linux and had to do all kinds of work to get hardware working right (as in not gimped), only to see it broken when the kernel is updated, understands the problem with needing to play around with Linux to keep it running*. OTOH, some people have basic hardware and low expectations (my example was a web browsing granny) and Linux may work fine through many updates.
.

This hasn't been a problem since forever. No one running Ubuntu out of the box is going to run into this. The only people that this applies to are people who compile their own kernel modules, or install poorly managed deb/rpm repositories. The average person or even a gamer would likely not ever see this problem. Ubuntu has got so idiot proof I don't even think they make the terminal a core application anymore. The only place where support is abysmal are laptops. Now that can be problematic depending on hardware. If you have something like Optimus then you could have issues but those are select cases and definitely not the norm.

 

[heatlesssun]

What metrics is it based on? How many PCs/laptops are SOLD with windows? The real question would be what OS is ACTUALLY running on the computers out there.

This is Netmarkshare data, so this is machines in actual use connected to the internet.

 

[lcpiper]

Given that they have free backdoor access to every windows install in the world, do you think that the US government will ever promote or allow Linux to gain marketshare?

Free backdoor access to every windows install in the world.

Here is the problem. My last job I worked at the Army's NETCOM in the Federated Lab where they develop the Army's custom Windows deployment builds for their networks. The build was called Army Gold Master, (AGM), and now it's UGM, I think the U is for uniform but I'm not sure. I worked on the IT infrastructure and enterprise for the lab, all the stuff that provides the systems and services that the developers needed.

Now under your premise, that MS implements backdoors into their Operating Systems for the government to take advantage of, you would think that in turn, at the Lab where I worked, they would have to "fix" those backdoors or the Army's systems would all be vulnerable to the same vulnerabilities. I never heard of anything like that. It's not a classified facility like where I work now so nothing was ever particularly hush hush. Do you think I worked there helping those guys out on their systems and handling all their virtualization for them and they never once made a comment on something like this?

Look, Windows Server 2012 is much more secure than Server 2008, and there are still over 400 security checks you have to make on each system for the STIG before you can put that system on the network. The reality is that if anyone's OS was locked down to any great degree, most people would never be able to use them for anything. That's why vendors ship their OSs pretty open and it's up to the owner/operator or a guy like me to take those systems and secure them based on whatever services that system requires and everything else get's turned off.

But a fresh install on a network without any hardening is just a sieve and it's child's play to compromise them.

Now think it through a little further. Any organization that has gone through the trouble to hunt down and catalogue over 400 possible vulnerabilities in an OS is also going to be able to put together tools that probe for those same 400+ vulnerabilities, and know how to take advantage of them. Our security scans (SCAP) do just that, and when they find something they even point to which STIG vulnerability was found, and tell us how to fix it.

It shouldn't take that much in the way of a mental adjustment to understand that they way you are saying it, the government has MS take a security system and put special access points in it, but that the reality is that there are hundreds of ways in right out of the box and all the government has to do is look for them and they know most of them and they are always looking for more.

 

[Deleted member 108676]

Microsoft is listening to its users

Bullshit.

What is this guy smoking that wrote this?

Cock

All of which gather more information about you and send it back to their creators and no one is complaining about it.

Because at least with iOS, which is what I use, you can opt out of that. I wouldn't care about what Windows does if I could opt out of it. Hell, I wouldn't care if they hid it even a little so the average person couldn't opt out if that's what they want. But I want 100% opt out.

 

[grtitan]

Free backdoor access to every windows install in the world.

Here is the problem. My last job I worked at the Army's NETCOM in the Federated Lab where they develop the Army's custom Windows deployment builds for their networks. The build was called Army Gold Master, (AGM), and now it's UGM, I think the U is for uniform but I'm not sure. I worked on the IT infrastructure and enterprise for the lab, all the stuff that provides the systems and services that the developers needed.

Now under your premise, that MS implements backdoors into their Operating Systems for the government to take advantage of, you would think that in turn, at the Lab where I worked, they would have to "fix" those backdoors or the Army's systems would all be vulnerable to the same vulnerabilities. I never heard of anything like that. It's not a classified facility like where I work now so nothing was ever particularly hush hush. Do you think I worked there helping those guys out on their systems and handling all their virtualization for them and they never once made a comment on something like this?

Look, Windows Server 2012 is much more secure than Server 2008, and there are still over 400 security checks you have to make on each system for the STIG before you can put that system on the network. The reality is that if anyone's OS was locked down to any great degree, most people would never be able to use them for anything. That's why vendors ship their OSs pretty open and it's up to the owner/operator or a guy like me to take those systems and secure them based on whatever services that system requires and everything else get's turned off.

But a fresh install on a network without any hardening is just a sieve and it's child's play to compromise them.

Now think it through a little further. Any organization that has gone through the trouble to hunt down and catalogue over 400 possible vulnerabilities in an OS is also going to be able to put together tools that probe for those same 400+ vulnerabilities, and know how to take advantage of them. Our security scans (SCAP) do just that, and when they find something they even point to which STIG vulnerability was found, and tell us how to fix it.

It shouldn't take that much in the way of a mental adjustment to understand that they way you are saying it, the government has MS take a security system and put special access points in it, but that the reality is that there are hundreds of ways in right out of the box and all the government has to do is look for them and they know most of them and they are always looking for more.

Thanks for the insight.

Do I have concrete proof? No and at this point, doesnt matter much.

I'm not an expert as you, but if a client blocks and secure their installs as you say, remember, windows and especially W10, talk back to MS using encrypted connections that only them can read.

Perhaps NSA, CIA and whatever 3 letters agency exist, can just have a direct connection to MS servers.

We know that we love our secrets and no agency knows everything of what the others are doing, so who knows what is out there.

Yeah, is conspiracy theory area, but then again, plenty of those theories have been proved right.

 

[Deleted member 108676]

For Linux to really get traction...dump the 47648 other distros and merge it down to concentrating on purely 2-3 for general/specific purposes.

Oh and maybe settle on a Desktop...whatever?

Currently Linux is running it's own divide and conquer strategy...on itself.

I got really fed up the few occasions I installed a distro of Linux to then be told by two dozen neck-beards that I should instead have installed one of two dozen other distros.

Pointless.

This is the only reason I don't use Linux. I don't want to constantly read to figure out what I should use, only to read something a day later and think "should have used that."

Linux will never be taken seriously until it has a unified front to take on Apple and MS. Just like BLM and OWS...without a central leadership, its laughable.

 

[Deleted member 108676]

You can do the exact same things to windows.

No, you can't.

 

[heatlesssun]

No, you can't.

If I'm following this, he's correct, I can do all of that on my Lumia 950. Kind of makes it pointless to have a smartphone though.

 

[FurbySlayer]

... are you even trying

this is the first problem with linux....

its been one of the largest complaints for years.

when you do try, and run into a problem, seeking public support/help is a thrill.

 

[lcpiper]

Thanks for the insight.

Do I have concrete proof? No and at this point, doesnt matter much.

I'm not an expert as you, but if a client blocks and secure their installs as you say, remember, windows and especially W10, talk back to MS using encrypted connections that only them can read.

Perhaps NSA, CIA and whatever 3 letters agency exist, can just have a direct connection to MS servers.

We know that we love our secrets and no agency knows everything of what the others are doing, so who knows what is out there.

Yeah, is conspiracy theory area, but then again, plenty of those theories have been proved right.

Point taken.

I've done a lot and seen a lot. But I'd be a fool to think I've done it all and seen it all