Can we talk about preordering games - and how stupid this new trend is?

Last game I preordered was Street Fighter 2: Turbo Edition for the SNES. Reason was that back in the day games had to actually be manufactured, and shortages happened. Now? LMAO. No fucking way. I can get them day of.
 
TheOneKnownAsMe said:
DNF should have only taken a year to develop, how long did it take to develop? 14 fucking years. Even when you take into consideration all of the difficulties and roadblocks the developers had to overcome, the game still fell flat in regards to basic storyline, game mechanics, graphics, etc.

The same goes for Bioshock 2, in his own opinion. Based upon the qualities of the game, he felt that the game felt like something that had only had 6 months of development time dumped into it rather than 2 years.

Look, we understand the process of game development. Those models don't make themselves, audio needs to be recorded, normal maps, diffuse maps, shaders, the tools, the game itself, it all needs to be developed by the team. I would understand to an extent, I have worked on several ambitious indie projects that ultimately fell flat on their face, and yet, their combined failures give me understanding. Rarely do Indie teams lack for dedication, sometimes they're lacking for talent (but there are extremely talented Indie teams who still do not make it to the finish line), but mainly it's a lack of time, and time is money. Having to balance non-paid indie work between a normal 9-5 job, a family and a social life is hard. Now, while being funded by a publisher alleviates having to balance 2 jobs, oftentimes you're put under massive amounts pressure, far more than you have while working on an indie game.

Game development is hard work, it takes massive amounts of time, dedication and talent. And people with those qualities are limited, as is time, we *get* that, it's just that Bioshock 2 didn't feel like the result of a solid 2 years of development, that's all.

Wanna know what bugged me? I have a friend who lives pretty much right down the street from Irrationational, and on occassion they would give him a call when they needed a hard opinion on programming. He got to play all sorts of development builds of the game, and he told me (as well as others) that the mouse control had issues several months back before release, and when the game was released, those mouse control issues were still prevalent, it almost made the game unplayable.

That's what I'm talking about. What went on during those few months? Why couldn't they spend the time fixing something as simple as the mouse controls? Probably because they were being rushed by 2k. It's the fact that simple bugs such as that were introduced mere months into the development of Bioshock 2 that never got resolved that gives the game it's "6 month feel".
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If all that's true, that's pretty telling, and you're correct there, the 6 month feel is what bothered me so much, I pre ordered this game on Steam and paid full price for it, and I felt like I got ripped off big time.

That right there is what soured me towards buying any more games on release day.

As I stated before Bioshock 2 has none of the quality and polished feel that a 2 year game should have.
 
Yes, pre-order for games download is totally stupid. I guess it makes sense for an iPhone or something, where they'll run out, but what the hell is the point of giving them my money 4 months before release for a download?? If their servers crash will they prioritize preorders over people who bought day 1?

Publishers obviously do this to create hype and a sense of exclusivity, and to sell the game before reviews show how shitty they are. I have never cared for the crap they cut out of the games and use to bribe people into buying the game, but as long as idiots do they will keep screwing us. I see an alarming trend where this stuff is no longer just cosmetic or collector crap, but actual game content. That's when I refuse to buy the game at all but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority.
 
ObiDamnKenobi said:
Yes, pre-order for games download is totally stupid. I guess it makes sense for an iPhone or something, where they'll run out, but what the hell is the point of giving them my money 4 months before release for a download?? If their servers crash will they prioritize preorders over people who bought day 1?

Publishers obviously do this to create hype and a sense of exclusivity, and to sell the game before reviews show how shitty they are. I have never cared for the crap they cut out of the games and use to bribe people into buying the game, but as long as idiots do they will keep screwing us. I see an alarming trend where this stuff is no longer just cosmetic or collector crap, but actual game content. That's when I refuse to buy the game at all but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority.
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The only reason I pre-purchased DXHR was because of the massive amounts of lip service it was getting from regular everyday people who had played the leak. I generally don't care for reviews, but when a big chunk of people are going around stating how great it is, well, I'm a little more inclined anyway.

And again, for $28, I won't feel too ripped off if it sucks. :p

Now, what really pisses me off is release day DLC. There's no reason for it. It's content that was blatantly developed in tandem with the game to boost release day sales.
 
schizrade said:
Last game I preordered was Street Fighter 2: Turbo Edition for the SNES. Reason was that back in the day games had to actually be manufactured, and shortages happened. Now? LMAO. No fucking way. I can get them day of.
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Pre-ordering still doesn't guarantee there will be enough copies for you if enough people pre-order. I pre-ordered Starcraft 2, and it took 3 weeks after launch day for my game to ship due to a shortage. See I got nothing to show for my pre-order and would have had the game sooner if I had picked it up at Wal-Mart on launch day or the blizzard store.
 
ZodaEX said:
Pre-ordering still doesn't guarantee there will be enough copies for you if enough people pre-order. I pre-ordered Starcraft 2, and it took 3 weeks after launch day for my game to ship due to a shortage. See I got nothing to show for my pre-order and would have had the game sooner if I had picked it up at Wal-Mart on launch day or the blizzard store.
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I remember there was a similar story with Halo (Reach?) pre-orders and Gamestop where they would take the pre-orders, but then just sell them to random people anyway and a lot of people who pre-ordered were left without a copy because the stores sold out
 
If a DD pre-order lets you pre-load, then I could see the benefit.
 
I think midnight releases are stupid. I bought Halo 3 that night, I regret it, I never even beat it. I should have waited until the next day to be disappointed.
 
TheOneKnownAsMe said:
*snip*
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lulz, that is a big wall of text to a debate that should never exist in the first place.



Fail said:
I don't see how a game like it could even take 6 months to make. It plays like a Bioshock 1.25 not a full sized Bioshock sequel.
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Bobthecoolguy said:
That is because you don't know what you are talking about. :)
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Fail goes on to misconstrue what was said, assuming Bob was talking about the 2 years instead of the 6 months.

Fail said:
I always know what i'm talkin bout.
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LOL.

Seriously, where's the fucking debate in that? There isn't one. One person says they dont see how it could take even 6 months to make, next person says the comment is made out of ignorance.

The "argument" should have ended there, or maybe Fail could have clarified "Well that's how it felt", and that's it, there's no debate. As far as I'm aware there's no technical information available to prove the "feelings" of one person or the other.

This is like the thread of epic pointless debates :p

EDIT: My mistake, I just read the recent Oblivion discussion on fast travel. :p
 
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TheOneKnownAsMe said:
Now, what really pisses me off is release day DLC. There's no reason for it. It's content that was blatantly developed in tandem with the game to boost release day sales.
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Can you provide proof of that? In some cases I'd agree, BUT not always. You have to realize that there is a point with games that they are "feature locked" and no more new content can be added. At that point it's all about make stuff work and doing bug fixes and the like. Exactly when that happens in the development cycle is different for each game. When actual development stops and a game is sent off to Q&A for final fixes before Gold certification that leaves the devs with nothing to do. Either they get told to take vacation or to work on other projects. A lot of times these days they have a team work on little pre-order items or get a head start on DLC. In the case of a game like Dragon Age Origins there was quite a few months between feature lock/QA and launch due to EA delaying the game to make the console ports. A few weeks to a month sounds like it is usually average, four or five months is unusual. So they had some of them work on finishing content that was pulled due to time constraints (happens all the time with games a ton of nearly finished or even finished ideas are left out due to various reasons) and work on all that little pre-order and special DLC content that released with the game. Of course there are examples of things that might have been developed in tandem with the game, but it's hard to say with no real proof pointing to either.
 
I preorder any game I plan on getting on launch day or for a midnight release. Most of the time its easier, i've paid for it in advance.

To say preordering is pointless is like saying ordering something online is pointless when you just go to the store and buy it. Its all about preference.

Preordering a shitty game is no difference then buying that shitty game on launch day.
 
pre ordering makes life easier i think. I dont have to lose sleep on release day when all i have to do is open up the mailbox instead the next day.
 
If you want to play the game, no matter what the reviews are, then what is wrong with preordering it? I preordered SWTOR. I know I want to play it. I want to experience the game for myself, not play the game through some person's own opinion/review.
 
Teecee said:
If you want to play the game, no matter what the reviews are, then what is wrong with preordering it? I preordered SWTOR. I know I want to play it. I want to experience the game for myself, not play the game through some person's own opinion/review.
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If that's what you prefer that's ok, I just don't understand it;).. Why would you do that? Do you have unlimited time and money? You're never bothered by playing a boring game?

I prefer to wait a few months after release, read several reviews and discussions, watch gameplay videos, play a demo and really make sure I'll get maximum enjoyment out of a game. I have very little time to play games and if I play a shit game for 4 hrs that's time wasted I could have done something fun instead. I always have backlog games so have no need to get a game right when it comes out, I can afford to wait and the game will if any thing be in better shape once I get to it. To each his own.
 
Pre ordering is totally retarded. If I recall correctly, it started happening around the time Halo 2 launched. Again, I blame consoles for the state we're in.
 
TheToE! said:
Pre ordering is totally retarded. If I recall correctly, it started happening around the time Halo 2 launched. Again, I blame consoles for the state we're in.
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You must be pretty young if you think pre-ordering started with Halo 2. It's been around for a lot longer. The practice of it took off a lot more with Halo 2 due to the midnight launch stuff Gamestop did during it's launch, but Halo 2 was far from the first game to have pre-orders. But really people need to pull their bloody heads out of their asses with the pre-order issue. It's harmless so why the hell do you people care so god damn much?
 
ObiDamnKenobi said:
If that's what you prefer that's ok, I just don't understand it;).. Why would you do that? Do you have unlimited time and money? You're never bothered by playing a boring game?

I prefer to wait a few months after release, read several reviews and discussions, watch gameplay videos, play a demo and really make sure I'll get maximum enjoyment out of a game. I have very little time to play games and if I play a shit game for 4 hrs that's time wasted I could have done something fun instead. I always have backlog games so have no need to get a game right when it comes out, I can afford to wait and the game will if any thing be in better shape once I get to it. To each his own.
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Just because someone pre-orders a game doesn't mean they don't know what they're getting into. Outside of games I've bought in packs or games I just bought to review I've almost never bought a game I didn't end up liking. Even during a Steam sale I won't buy a game on a whim, even if it's insanely cheap. I have no interest in owning games I don't think I'll like and no matter how little they are I'll pass them buy. Same applies to pre-ordering. I spend some time looking into games, the studio developing it, the team inside that studio, the publisher, previews, trailers, random gameplay demos from expos (especially places like PAX or SDCC where it's gamers going hands on and not just the game press), along with looking at general reactions from gamers (though less and less these days as gamers get bitchier and bitchier about everything) and so on. It really isn't that hard to tell if a game will be worth playing prior to release or not. The only thing that you can't tell is if there will be game crippling bugs and that is becoming more and more of a problem these days.
 
I have preordered maybe five games. The ones I can remember are:
Red Alert 3; was a preorder because I'm a huge fan of the Red Alert series.
Battlefield 3; is a preorder because I do not want to pay for the BF2 maps later on when I can get them free before hand.
Batman Arkham City; is a preorder because me and my girl are huge fans of Batman and I want the extra content Best Buy is offering.

I think preordering some games is retarded, IE spending $150 for a bunch of worthless crap bundled with the game or a "hot" title you can get day of release.
 
I preorder very few games... like Mass Effect 3. I love the series, and there is no way I'll be skipping the last part. Before it I only preordered Cataclysm via Blizz Store this year, as I wanted to download it before release, and then avoid the overcrowded download servers :)
 
I'm all for preordering, i even preordered the $150 CE version of swtor. I look at it like this its all about choice, if someone wants to preorder they should have that option. If someone wants to just go in the store and buy it thats their choice.

I don't see why anyone would care if someone else preorders something or not.
 
I think pre ordering started around or just before Final Fantasy 7 launched, I could be wrong though.
 
MorgothPl said:
I preorder very few games... like Mass Effect 3. I love the series, and there is no way I'll be skipping the last part. Before it I only preordered Cataclysm via Blizz Store this year, as I wanted to download it before release, and then avoid the overcrowded download servers :)
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Don't they use BitTorent? So the more the merrier
 
qbanb8582 said:
I'm all for preordering, i even preordered the $150 CE version of swtor. I look at it like this its all about choice, if someone wants to preorder they should have that option. If someone wants to just go in the store and buy it thats their choice.

I don't see why anyone would care if someone else preorders something or not.
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I don't care that others peroreder. I care when they hack non-cosmetic content out of the game to entice people to buy the game before reviews are out. And I care when people let themselves be bribed in this way and I'm punished for wanting to read reviews.
 
ObiDamnKenobi said:
I don't care that others peroreder. I care when they hack non-cosmetic content out of the game to entice people to buy the game before reviews are out. And I care when people let themselves be bribed in this way and I'm punished for wanting to read reviews.
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Exactly. Because so many fanboys are so willing to preorder, the rest of us who prefer to be informed consumers get shafted.
 
Fail said:
I think pre ordering started around or just before Final Fantasy 7 launched, I could be wrong though.
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As I recall, you could preorder or reserve an unreleased game for the Atari 2600 from Sears, K-Mart, or JC Penny, I forget which one it was, as well as most any mom and pop video rental place way back in the day. Preorder has existed pretty much since the consoles has. Even b4 that you could preorder books. Preorder is not new. They just seem to be removing more and more content from games only to turn around and give it back as a preorder bonus. Toss in DLC, and/or micro transactions, and it feels like they never intended to ship a complete game.

Always wait for the GOTY, is the only lesson they have taught me. I certainly am not paying early, or paying $100 or more, in small chunks to get the complete game. Aside from those that preorder telling the publishers, with their wallet vote, that it is OK to ship partial games, I have nothing against those that preorder. It is their money, and I am patient enough to wait for the entire game to be released.
 
ObiDamnKenobi said:
I don't care that others peroreder. I care when they hack non-cosmetic content out of the game to entice people to buy the game before reviews are out. And I care when people let themselves be bribed in this way and I'm punished for wanting to read reviews.
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If you're waiting for a review then the "extras" shouldn't matter. The whole idea of preordering is getting the game on launch day or getting early access. Or having the game in their mailbox on launch day, if they don't want to go out to the store. To those people the review doesn't matter. They're informed enough to spend their money.

Thats like saying people that saw a movie in theaters, didn't get to see the "extras" that are on the DVD or Blu ray are getting punished.
 
qbanb8582 said:
If you're waiting for a review then the "extras" shouldn't matter. The whole idea of preordering is getting the game on launch day or getting early access. Or having the game in their mailbox on launch day, if they don't want to go out to the store. To those people the review doesn't matter. They're informed enough to spend their money.

Thats like saying people that saw a movie in theaters, didn't get to see the "extras" that are on the DVD or Blu ray are getting punished.
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Faulty analogy. We're not talking about "extras" here, but rather complete parts of the game, specifically hacked off to bribe people into preordering. Extra maps for BF3? Which probably ship with 4-5 maps max, and no mod tools so they can sell map packs later. That's pretty significant to me. And extra maps is clearly something that they could include in the game at launch no problem, "feature lock" or not. Extra civilizations for Civ 5 are also not what I'd call an extra, I'd say the Babylonians were pretty significant. And I'm pretty sure were included by default in older Civs.

edit: Babylonians were not included in Civ 4, but where in Civ 3.
 
ObiDamnKenobi said:
Faulty analogy. We're not talking about "extras" here, but rather complete parts of the game, specifically hacked off to bribe people into preordering. Extra maps for BF3? Which probably ship with 4-5 maps max, and no mod tools so they can sell map packs later. That's pretty significant to me. And extra maps is clearly something that they could include in the game at launch no problem, "feature lock" or not. Extra civilizations for Civ 5 are also not what I'd call an extra, I'd say the Babylonians were pretty significant. And I'm pretty sure were included by default in older Civs.

edit: Babylonians were not included in Civ 4, but where in Civ 3.
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You know, that just brings to mind that one image where some guy took the Mona Lisa and did a BEFORE and AFTER of the Mona Lisa as compared to games 10 years ago and today

10 years ago, you'd get a complete game (complete Mona Lisa).

Today, you get 80 percent of the Mona Lisa picture and you have to purchase the remaining 20 percent as 2 pieces of DLC, LOL.
 
You mean this one?

w9cyyo.jpg



This would be funny if it was not so damn close to being the truth.
 
Pre-ordering was worth it when there was supply shortages at release, but now it's just another marketing trick for the most part. Waste of time.
 
I usually don't preorder...but the OP is right about the new trend of getting 'exclusive' content...I will be pre-ordering Deus Ex: Human Revolution from Gamestop because they are offering an 'exclusive' single player mission which will feature an important character from the first game (Tracer Tong?)...hate doing it but I'm going to have to pre-order because of that
 
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polonyc2 said:
I usually don't preorder...but the OP is right about the new trend of getting 'exclusive' content...I will be pre-ordering Deus Ex: Human Revolution from Gamestop because they are offering an 'exclusive' single player mission which will feature an important character from the first game (Tracer Tong?)...hate doing it but I'm going to have to pre-order because of that
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I pre-orderd it from GS to get a physical copy of the Augmented Edition. I could order it from Amazon, but it comes out the day after school starts again so I'll have something to do after class and not have to worry about missing UPS.
 
I wanted to get it from Gamestop as well for the bonus mission and physical AE content, but it was like $27 more compared to digital lol...
 
limitedaccess said:
I wanted to get it from Gamestop as well for the bonus mission and physical AE content, but it was like $27 more compared to digital lol...
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If I were to go digital I'd just get the standard edition. I'd rather have the sound track and art book as physical items.

Fail said:
Yes sir, that is the one, and it IS the truth :(
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I would love to argue that with you, but sadly I kind of agree. Not as much on the the pre-order thing since usually people make a huge fuss over bonuses that end up over-all being kind of worthless or just neat little things that don't affect the game one way or the other.

As for DLC. I still see nothing wrong with the concept, however the execution of that concept is only getting worse. $15 map packs, shit like what 2K did with Mafia 2, and so on. It's not exactly a shining ray of hope for the future especially if idiots on all sides (consoles and PCs) keep buying the shit.
 
I thought pre-ordering was a means to relieve those long ass lines? I would rather enjoy the comforts of home when my package from Amazon arrives rather than stand in a line wrapped around a couple blocks waiting for "xxxxxx" the day before it is actually released.
 
When do you ever get long ass lines when buying games? Maybe at Gamestop. But if it's bad just hop on over to Wal-Mart and get the game for the same price and quicker through self-checkout.
 
pigwalk said:
When do you ever get long ass lines when buying games? Maybe at Gamestop. But if it's bad just hop on over to Wal-Mart and get the game for the same price and quicker through self-checkout.
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Yea gamestop had a line going out the door when I went to pick up vice city.
 
pigwalk said:
When do you ever get long ass lines when buying games? Maybe at Gamestop. But if it's bad just hop on over to Wal-Mart and get the game for the same price and quicker through self-checkout.
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Me? Not anymore because I pre-order. Viable option but I'll take the pre-order over standing in line. Call me lazy but hey, I'm not a line stander.
 
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