Can someone help me ID a capacitor?

S

starhawk

[H]F Junkie
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It's a little darkish-green blob, roughly rectangular. Looks to me like an MLCC, but I could be way off.

It's marked as follows:

104K 2E
R B 630

It's a little wrinkly on one side, which makes me think it's time for a replacement. Trouble is, that garble isn't telling me what value it is -- even via google. Help plz?
 
Maybe post a picture and what it is in? It might help ID it quicker.
 
Sorry, no chance for a picture.

It's in my heat pump, on a little PCB, and the markings face downwards -- towards a metal ledge that's right below. This particular PCB is connected to a much larger capacitor (I'm guessing it's a starter cap for a 3 phase motor) that happens to be about the size of my fist. I'd rather not pull the PCB for it.

I'm about 90% that it's an MLCC. It's not more than 3/8" wide, and it's about 1/4" high. It's a little rectangular green blob.
 
All I can tell from the inet is maybe its .1uF +/-10% = (104k).
 
Hagrid said:
All I can tell from the inet is maybe its .1uF +/-10% = (104k).
Click to expand...

You're right, but we still have no idea what the voltage rating on the cap is (a pic of the PCB would be most helpful here, so we can see what it's attached to), nor the type of the cap.
 
what makes you think this component is the problem Starhawk?
 
It's all green and wrinkly, like a million bucks!

Seriously. This heatpump has two circuit boards in it. They're tiny (ridiculously so). Both have caps like this on them. One's wrinkly, one's not. If this cap is only operational when it wants to be, that would explain why the blower sometimes cuts off when it's supposed to and sometimes doesn't.

If replacing that part doesn't fix it, I'll look at relays. But this would be a $0.06 or so part (ignoring shipping for the moment). Much cheaper than paying the HVAC guy the quoted $250 or so!

I can post (not great) pix of the two boards, but the traces are all underneath and I didn't take them off the panel that they're bolted to. So it's anyone's guess exactly what the cap connects to -- although it IS right next to a relay ;)

EDIT: Mohonri, et al. -- it looks like an MLCC -- multi-layer ceramic cap. Look here --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ceramic_capacitors.jpg 2nd cap from left, only with a forest-green body instead of blue. Just like that.
 
starhawk said:
It's all green and wrinkly, like a million bucks!

Seriously. This heatpump has two circuit boards in it. They're tiny (ridiculously so). Both have caps like this on them. One's wrinkly, one's not. If this cap is only operational when it wants to be, that would explain why the blower sometimes cuts off when it's supposed to and sometimes doesn't.

If replacing that part doesn't fix it, I'll look at relays. But this would be a $0.06 or so part (ignoring shipping for the moment). Much cheaper than paying the HVAC guy the quoted $250 or so!

I can post (not great) pix of the two boards, but the traces are all underneath and I didn't take them off the panel that they're bolted to. So it's anyone's guess exactly what the cap connects to -- although it IS right next to a relay ;)

EDIT: Mohonri, et al. -- it looks like an MLCC -- multi-layer ceramic cap. Look here --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ceramic_capacitors.jpg 2nd cap from left, only with a forest-green body instead of blue. Just like that.
Click to expand...

AFAIK most starter caps are electrolytic?(at least the a/c's I have worked on)
So I am not sure what it is for then. Do you have the model # of the heat pump system?
 
A couple updates...

Located both boards on eBay. Yay for part numbers ;)

The relays on the "defrost control board" (square PCB) are:
- small relay = Panasonic ALA2PF24 (or generic with identical p/n)
- big relay = Potter & Brumfield T9AV2D12-22

The small relay is $2.18 @ Mouser. The big relay is... not available anywhere, even eBay. I really hope that the problem is either the cap or the small relay.

The relay on the "fan control board" (rectangular PCB) is a TE Connectivity T9AV5D22-22. $3.65 @ Mouser.

I'm reeeeeeeally hoping it's not the basically-impossible-to-replace relay.

EDIT: thaaank you, Hagrid. I was typing while you were posting ;) Here's what I found -- http://www.ebay.com/itm/Defrost-Control-Board-1084-200D-PCBDM101-1084-83-2022-USED-/121047277058 and http://www.ebay.com/itm/Goodman-B1370735-fan-board-used-working-guaranteed-hVAC-/160957380495 .
 
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there aren't going to be any voltages on that board in excess of 240V, so a 104 (.1uF) rated for that would do it
 
@Hagrid -- yeah, quite possibly. I feel like an idiot.

BTW, I don't believe those are polarized... am I wrong?

EDIT: $0.28 @ Mouser for a polyester film capacitor, 0.1uF, 250v (they didn't have 240v ones...)
 
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starhawk said:
@Hagrid -- yeah, quite possibly. I feel like an idiot.

BTW, I don't believe those are polarized... am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Those ones I dont believe are polarized.

You might try radio shack for single parts, ebay, they usually only sell em in a big bag.
 
Current thinking between me and Mom is -- buy both PCBs whole, swap them in, then later go back and test/replace faulty components on the spare boards.

EDIT: BTW, Mouser has no minimum order qty, and shipping is a flat $4.95 fee for anything that can go UPS Mail Innovations.
 
starhawk said:
@Hagrid -- yeah, quite possibly. I feel like an idiot.

BTW, I don't believe those are polarized... am I wrong?

EDIT: $0.28 @ Mouser for a polyester film capacitor, 0.1uF, 250v (they didn't have 240v ones...)
Click to expand...

I would try that, it should be a good replacement.
 
As long as the voltage rating is higher than whatever the cap will see, it's fine. 240V, 400V, it doesn't matter. I think you're right that it's a MLCC. And also right that it has failed.
 
Mohonri said:
As long as the voltage rating is higher than whatever the cap will see, it's fine. 240V, 400V, it doesn't matter. I think you're right that it's a MLCC. And also right that it has failed.
Click to expand...

I really couldnt tell by the pictures I found. Best way is to take it off and take it with you to a repair shop maybe? That might be the easiest way.
 
I googled mylar capacitor and all the on-topic pix were of green rectangular blobs. I google MLCC capacitor and I get either SMT/SMD crap or blue rectangular blobs.

It's a mylar.

Worth noting, I've an email into Kemet, they may be able to properly ID that cap.
 
Kemet never replied. Got a replacement Defrost board... it has a brown cap as C1, marked

104K
250L

There's dots under the 5 and the 0 in the second line, and a line under the L.

Can anyone decode?
 
Not sure what else it would be, I have not seen that particular nomenclature but factories do all kinds of odd stuff with marking. Voltage rating is the next most important parameter after capacitance and it is the number we would expect in this application.
 
It sounds to me like all these manufacturers have completely different codes and coding schemes, and don't bother to put their own moniker on.

That's not terribly brilliant, but I can't say I'm surprised.
 
I really think you are safe going with our assumptions, I would

do you have the new board in?

got heat?
 
New board is waiting for installation. Probably Tuesday at the earliest, although it depends on the weather -- ours is one of those all-outdoor units. Only stuff inside is the filter and ducting.

Heat's been going. Problem is that sometimes the blower doesn't want to shut off, so it sits there dumping cold air into the house for no reason.
 
don't tell me you are paying for a service call to swap a board
 
Heck no.

Doing it myself. I'm not paying Eddie $75 to come out here and put that damn thing in. Bolts and spade connectors are things I can deal with just fine.

That's why it depends on the weather -- I'm not messing with that contraption unless it's above 55 F and therefore jacket weather. Shivering while putting in electronics = no thank you sir!
 
Put it in today. Good news and bad news.

Bad news: the "wrinkles" on the "bad" capacitor were dust. :eek:

Good news: blower hasn't been on unnecessarily since midafternoon when I did the replacement. Since it's only run once after that time, I'll give it a couple days to prove itself, but I'm cautiously optimistic.
 
Looks like the first real test of the heating sys will be tomorrow. High today here is 63 F -- the heat pump is set to come on at 62 F -- but tomorrow the high will be only 55 F so it's likely to trigger the heat pump.

I hate waiting :mad:
 
Yep.

Looks like I'll be buying another board... >.< at least this one's cheaper.

BTW, jojo, sent you a PM yesterday about something in the Freebies thread. Didja geddit or do I gotta send you a 2nd one?
 
Yeah sorry, I did, also the sender found a surprisingly decent pic on the web and sent that, it has a different part# but probably a direct replacement, between the two I will probably figure it out, thanks
 
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