Can someone explain bottlenecking?

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skadebo

[H]ard|Gawd
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I'm trying to grasp when and if a bottleneck occurs in a system these days. I hear about different resolutions resulting in different components holding back performance, how does this work out? Also, what does RAM affect in all this? Is my ddr400 at 2.5-4-4-7 1T really holding me back in games?

Setup:
e6300
asrock 775dual
x800xt
ddr400 at 2.5-4-4-7 1T

This is an in between setup, coming from an A-XP 3200+ on an a7n8x deluxe.
 
What resolution are you playing at? Chances are, it's your graphics card followed by memory (if less than a gig and the speed in general).
 
The term bottlenecking is used when something negatively affects the overall performance of the computer. (Here's another definition....) The processor, memory, and other components (specifically the graphics card and the hard drive) commuincate with each other through their connections on the motherboard. So essentially, they all move as fast as the slowest component is moving. One component -- the processor, memory, hard drive(s), or the graphics card -- is often considered to be the source of the bottleneck. (The bottleneck could also be any combination of the above.) Modding components -- specifically, over/underclocking and voltage regulation -- can play a role depending on what you've modded. The motherboard also plays a role, because sometimes poor and/or incompatible components don't communicate properly on the motherboard if at all (... that, or cause damage to the motherboard, other components, and/or themselves). I can't explain how RAM is affected very well, but timings and voltage (as well as having the proper "speed" of memory -- and whether or not you overclock it) play a huge role. (I'm oversimplifying things here, so if anyone can explain things better, please do so.)

Based on your current setup, the "best" part is the e6300, which means that everything else would slow it down. I think that everything else is slowing it down:

-- Your graphics card (the X800 XT) is old. Any mid-level card (and even some low-level cards) made within the past couple of years would perform better than it. The newer PCI-Express cards also have a wider bandwidth that allows them to process information faster.

-- Your memory has okay timings, but the Core 2 Duo processors are designed to be used with DDR2 memory. (From what I know -- remember, I'm not an expert on memory) DDR2 runs at faster speeds (which allows it to "communicate" better) in spite of reduced latency timings (compared to DDR memory). Ideally, the speed of the memory should match the front side bus (FSB) speed of the processor, and they both should match the FSB speed of the motherboard. Also, depending on the motherboard, if the RAM doesn't have the proper voltage, it may not run very well (if at all). (Most people I know use either DDR2 667 or DDR2 800 speeds with their memory.) Since memory is also for temporary storage of files, the amount of RAM you have could play a role. 1GB is the suggested minimum here, especially if you plan on doing any video editing or gaming. (2GB is preferred, assuming that you don't already have that amount.) If you have less memory than Windows needs, then it goes to the virtual memory (located on the hard drive), which slows everything down more.

-- You didn't specify your hard drive(s). RPM speed, the amount of cache, and the amount of storage you have (left over) helps determine how fast or slow communication is. (Hard drives are often considered the slowest components, when you compare bandwidth and processing speeds... the use of RAID can help increase speed but it doesn't really help much compared to the bandwidth and speeds of other components.)

-- Your motherboard is designed to be a transition board, but I've heard and read reviews that state it does a poor job performance-wise. Is it safe to assume that you chose that board so you could keep your RAM and video card? (Based on the specs -- is this your board? -- it has slots for both DDR and DDR2 memory.) If so, it would be best to choose a new motherboard that supports the latest Intel Core 2 Duo processors, supports DDR2 memory (at least DDR2 667 speeds), and uses PCI-Express (x16) video cards.

I'm not trying to tell you that you need to create a new rig, but I wanted to show you where the bottlenecks are (or where they could be) in your system. If you're having no problems with system right now, though, I really wouldn't worry about anything.
 
Bottle necking in a PC simply refers to one component holding back the rest of the system. With respect to resolutions; it's a good test to see where a bottle neck is. If framerates in games don't significantly change no matter what resolution you set, then it means the CPU is the bottle neck since the graphics card is easily handling everything the CPU gives to it.


In your case I'd say your system is well balanced. No single component seems to massively outweigh another.
 
tiraides said:
-- Your graphics card (the X800 XT) is old. Any mid-level (and even some low-level) card made within the past couple of years would perform better than it. The newer PCI-Express cards also have a wider bandwidth that allows them to process information faster.
Click to expand...
The x800xt isn't a bad card and fits nicely with 1.8ghz conroe. Agreed, his system would definitely benefit from a faster card and his cpu would do it justice. That'd be the best upgrade choice.
 
spine said:
The x800xt isn't a bad card and fits nicely with 1.8ghz conroe. Agreed, his system would definitely benefit from a faster card and his cpu would do it justice. That'd be the best upgrade choice.
Click to expand...

The card isn't bad but if he's trying to new games at somewhat high res, it might not work out that well.
 
skadebo said:
I hear about different resolutions resulting in different components holding back performance, how does this work out?
Click to expand...

clockworks said:
The card isn't bad but if he's trying to new games at somewhat high res, it might not work out that well.
Click to expand...
Forgot about that... video card performance, in general, depends largely on the game(s) you play, as well as what monitor you have (and what resolutions it can support). (Yes, "communication" with the other components is important too, but I'm trying to keep it simple.) For example (using your X800XT), you shouldn't have any problems playing World of Warcraft on a 17" CRT with all AA, AF, and other eye candy maxed out, but it would be slower than molasses trying to run Oblivion on a 24" widescreen LCD -- even with just the default settings in place. IIRC, the best AGP video card in the market right now is the GeForce 7800GS (though I've recently heard that ATI is planning on releasing a new AGP card).
 
Wow, thanks for the great help. I see some information was missing from my post. More detail on my system:

E6300 @ stock speeds
2 x 512MB of ddr400 @ 2.5-4-4-7 2T ( Original post mistakenly said 1T)
Asrock dual775 vsta
AGP x800xt with zalman vf900 (overclocks up to 540/540 conservatively)
Seagate sata 120gb, 7200rpm, 8mb cache
19" syncmaster crt

I like playing fear, quake 4. probably not much else. I can currently game at 1280x1024 with fairly high settings but not aa, af.

The reason I chose this board was becuase my old mobo crapped out and I needed a cheap upgrade without upgrading everything else. performance bumped up in games with the e6300 compared to my old xp3200+. However, the cpu used to be the bottleneck, now I feel as though the gpu is holding it back.

I'll be coming into some money in the next couple of months so I'm thinking of keeping the processor and blessing it with other high quality components so can overclock it. I'm thinking of a 680i mobo with some iteration of the g80 series cards and some good overclocking ram to really push the e6300.
 
Short answer:

Your bottle neck device is what slowest device in your system...

say you have an awesome set up.. but you have a shitty video card.. then your video card can be the bottle neck when gaming...

"Bottlenecking" is really case by case thing...
 
Is it the same as saying * dependancy? For instance, I hear performance becomes more cpu dependant at lower resolutions. At something like 1600x1200 it becomes gpu dependant. This means that the cpu is basically waiting on the video card at those resolutions? Basically a faster processor won't help that much at really high resolutions?
 
Today's games place more emphasis on the graphics card than the processor, but that doesn't mean that the processor doesn't get used at all. I don't exactly know when the graphics workload shifts from the processor to the graphics card (I thought it was around 800x600), but you'll probably see more of a performance increase if you choose a better graphics card (as you already have a good processor in the e6300).
 
tiraides said:
Today's games place more emphasis on the graphics card than the processor, but that doesn't mean that the processor doesn't get used at all. I don't exactly know when the graphics workload shifts from the processor to the graphics card (I thought it was around 800x600), but you'll probably see more of a performance increase if you choose a better graphics card (as you already have a good processor in the e6300).
Click to expand...
There's no fixed point/resolution where the bottleneck shifts from being the cpu to the gpu. It depends on the system in question. If 800x600 is the highest resolution where after which higher resolutions dramatically reduce performance then the graphics card is clearly the bottleneck in that system. If the framerate in whatever game wasn't affected even at stupidly high resolutions then the cpu would be the bottleneck.

This is dead straight forward, is there really any need for further explanation?
 
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