Can I Use a TV to Assist Video Editing?

O

Ozzz

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One of the Awesome guys on HF suggested that I can continue to use my TV to check the color/image of the video I’m editing. This way I wouldn’t need to spend huge money on the highest quality LCDs or on a big CRT.

However, my TV is a $90 color Tube television (Zenith?) that I bought back in 2003. Will that work or do I need something fancier?

Incidentally, why are LCDs so fickle whenever you move your head...they seem so state of the art?

Thanks Guys As Always!!!
 
You really shouldn't... something like that probably won't have the necessary controls to adjust color beyond basic tint and brightness/contrast. However an old interlaced TV is still invaluable for checking line dominance if you're doing non-progressive output, as well as safe areas. I would sooner put my faith in the default color settings of an LCD monitor than a Zenith tube TV.

If the LCD is fickle when you move you head, you have a cheap LCD (panel).

If color is important, then regardless of your display, you need to buy a colorimeter.
 
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Thank you for that honest input. It is much appreciated. :D

I am trying to work around a small budget. I wanted to get two BenQ FP241VW as they are good but inexpensive and use the TV that I already have as apparently MVA/PVA panels have a gamma shift when you move your head.

However, space and QUALITY is also a consideration. Would you recommend getting one ISP panel as one guy on HF recommended and one MVA/PVA, 24” LCD (I want a dual screen for my setup) and use the TV for dominance and safe areas?

Is there an ISP panel you could recommend?

THANKS!!!!!
 
Well, it might be time for a sanity check. What kind of quality do you really need? Is the video your kid's graduation? Is it a commercial for a local nonprofit? A piece for broadcast? The next "28 Days Later" on HDV?

Color isn't really as big an issue as many people make it out to be. Heck, look at what plays in the theaters these days, if the picture isn't tinted blue or red then it's probably either ridiculously over-saturated or under-saturated. It seems like natural color these days has cooties or something. Look at the TV displays in your local stores also... everything is set up differently. Nobody notices or cares, except to buy the "bright and colorful one."

If you do editing on a TN-type monitor then the colors will be the same as they were on an IPS one, and I'd be willing to say they're going to be close to the same on a good CRT. Blue is blue is blue, and much of what you do isn't dependent on getting that precise. The things that most people are particularly dependent on good color, such as skin tones and sky colors, are things that you as a human already have a good feel and sensitivity to and can tell without resorting to exact measurements. What you have to watch out for is when color has to be reproduced exactly or near exactly (e.g. print) or when you have very fine detail that has to be communicated (e.g. shadow detail), and your monitor can let you down without you knowing about it. I doubt either situation is going to apply in your case.

That said, if you need to know what you're doing then at the minimum find an IPS-type monitor (mine is an S-IPS from the old Apple 23" days and I still won't give it up) for your primary, anything at all for your secondary (MVA/PVA is nice), and a TV for your check device. You'll want to probably find something newer than the Zenith though. I hate it when you can't plug component video into something. Something that is also incredibly useful is to have a LARGE display, like a projector or RPTV to check also. Many things that you'll never notice on the 24" monitors and TVs you'll notice on the 60-120" display, though at that point I admit you'd be really anal like me.

TN type panels have bad color shift, not the kind where you move your head and things change, but where even with your head stationary you have a slight gradient shift across the screen. MVA/PVA from what little experience I have also shift but not as badly, requiring you to move your head for a shift, though I would not call them "accurate" either. IPS is consistent, but has uniformity problems on the ones I've used. CRT is best, but you'll go blind using them if your back doesn't go out trying to mount one on your desk first, AND you have to wait for them to warm up and calibrate them semi-regularly.

Unless you're doing something professional that requires a professional budget, you might consider using your TV for a check monitor, a regular LCD HDTV for a color/primary display monitor (since more and more people are going to be looking at your stuff on those anyway, and you can probably find an S-IPS with good color controls cheap), and whatever fits the bill as a secondary computer display (24" is overkill IMO if you have a budget).

If you don't have a colorimeter than you're just going blindly at it anyway. At the end of the day, color isn't a make-or-break proposition as long as it's not horribly wrong, and if it is, you'll know it because people will look dead/sunburned and the image will have a surreal quality to it. Then again if you're doing the next "28 Days" then that's what you want. :D

Let people yell at you if your grayscale is off or your monitor is shockingly deficient because it's set for 6600K... then point them at every $500m blockbuster out there with screwed up color and intentional image degradation ('300' anyone?) and tell them to watch the show and stop complaining.
 
Color is important, especially when it come to the printing business. But if what you are doing is not for pay or otherwise extremely important then a decent lcd should be ok. A crt "monitor" that has been properly calibrated is the best choice for color perfect work, but again, if you don't need it, don't bother. A crt tv that has the ability to be calibrated for accurate color would work for what you seem to want. I think that the inputs on the tv in question would be a factor then. vga, dvi, or rgb would be the best options if available. Or you can spend $20 on a 17" or "19 crt off of craigslist.com and get it color calibrated and use it just to verify color on your work.

Then again, if your work is watched by people on your typical lcd monitor or tv, your attention to color accuracy will be wasted anyway.
 
THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU!! GREAT AND SUPER COMPLETE ANSWERS!! THIS SITE IS AMAZINGLY HELPFUL!!

To answer your questions, the editing will be for broadcast TV and possibly some movie work. I’m in public affairs and work hand-in-hand with some television stations (mostly PBS) and documentary producers. So I’ve had to step up my editing equipment from what I had in college! :D They’re NOT expecting me to have the same quality equipment they do, but I will be doing some of the editing for them on my gear. Primarily it will be documentaries and music videos/ads and so there are areas where color accuracy as they apply to skin tones and color creativity are a concern.

It sounds like having an IPS monitor, a MVA monitor, and a good quality TV with S-Video input would be the best set-up for me at this time. However, I’m still open to input from real pros like you!!

Can I ask what are your recommendations are for an IPS monitor? I’m looking for a 24” monitor that’s cheap without sacrificing quality. I’m NOT into any extras like USB ports or speakers.

THANK YOU THANK YOU AS ALWAYS!!! I look forward to posting pictures when it’s all done!
 
For the IPS panel, the best choice would be the NEC LCD2490WUXi-SV. It includes the Spectraview H/W calibrator. The only way to be sure of color accuracy. For the 2nd 24", which I'm assuming would be the timeline/toolbar monitor you could consider the Westy L2410NM or even the TN BenQ G2400. But get the 2490.
 
Yeah, there are no good cheap IPS monitors anymore. Maybe you can find an old 23" display on ebay (HP L2335, Apple Cinema Display). They're cheap but the HP at least DOES band, which is mildly aggravating, and the Apple is gimped unless you're connecting it to an apple box.

For broadcast my first and overriding concern is the quality of the footage, and the format its on, and preserving it as much as possible. At worst you can do a short render of a few color schemes/corrections and play it back on a few monitors... as noted your viewers will probably not have a calibrated monitor anyway, and if you get *too* subtle you'll be disappointed.

Another option from the expensive 24" selection is a 30", which may be your ticket if you're doing HD editing and you can actually preview it at a decent resolution. There's tons of discussion here about S-IPS and such.

There's also the oddball notion of an S-IPS based LCD TV, which might work ok depending on how not screwed up the manufacturer did it (e.g Sharp's banding, Sony's clouding). Again, more on that in the forums here.

As clockdogg noted... think long and hard about getting a colorimeter, even a cheap one like the $200 EyeOne Display or even the *shudder* Spyder TV. MAKE SURE THEY WORK... sometimes they'll swear up and down in their digital accounting that you're ruler-flat for 6500K and grayscale, and when you look at the screen it's badly cast to pink. Get a reference card, or compare to a known-good display.

Maybe on the cheap-but-workable side you get a 24" S/M-PVA, a 22" TN, your Zenith or some other 20" tube TV or better, and then some used CRT as a 'check' device. You'll have to get two video cards to drive that. And the colorimeter. That's still going to run you around $1,000 ($400 24", +$200 22", +$200 CRT, +$200 meter). Whatever you do, don't get the LCD monitor and use a CRT as a secondary, because you'll go nuts with the flickering.

Don't you like how editing costs way more than you ever would have thought, just get started? It's a sick, sick disease. :)

I still say, in the end, don't worry about it that much. You have a lot of work to do, and exact color is not going to be the first priority. If your program is entertaining and well-paced, people will enjoy it anyway, and sometimes no matter what you do, the source material is so horrid (visually) that you can't save it anyway. That's the other half of the job... swallowing your pride.
 
Since you're on the mac you could just use the 2490uxi-SV with the Matrox MXO: http://www.matrox.com/video/products/mxo/home.cfm
No more $5K broadcast CRT required. And still add a cheap 24", like G2400, for timeline/toolbar. All this and still around $2500. That's not much over your $1.2K budget. Not by film standards, anyways. Or maybe start with a 30" IPS / colorimeter / MXO combo.

Yes, you could get by with an MVA screen or two, but using a monitor that has its 12 bit LUT calibrated will remove some 2nd guessing about your gear. Save that for the footage. You will be more productive, your jump cuts more poignant, your clients happier, your sex life better and you'll be rich! Some of that might even be true.
 
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