Call me curious-ATI

BillR

Born Again Cynic
Joined
Feb 17, 2002
Messages
18,535
I’m curious how many of you have gone the ATI direction and which cards are doing what.

Are they a better deal the Nvidia at the moment, a worse deal, PPD etc.

Appreciate any feedback and thanks;)


 
Me too. :D
I posted about this a few minutes ago. I have an 8800GT and an HD4850 and only 1 slot available at the moment....
 
At the moment the nVidia client has around twice the PpD of the ATI client.
But that will change as the clients get tweaked more and new protiens come out.

Because the nVidia card has a small number of quick shaders, it does better on small protiens, like the test protien it started with.
The ATI cards have a larger number of slower shaders, so it does better on the bigger protiens that are coming out.
Because all protiens are benched on ATI cards expect the PpD of the mid range ATI cards to stay fairly level, maybe a 50% increase in the top range cards.
On the other hand nVidia cards may have a 0-60% drop in PpD with new protiens.

So at the moment nVidia is better but tomorrow it may all change.

Luck ............. :D
 
FAH mon is telling me my 4870 is cranking out around 4200ppd... Considering my CPU's barely get me 800ppd, and I'm scoring around 5k ppd, I don't exactly disagree with this...
 
At the moment the nVidia client has around twice the PpD of the ATI client.
But that will change as the clients get tweaked more and new protiens come out.

Because the nVidia card has a small number of quick shaders, it does better on small protiens, like the test protien it started with.
The ATI cards have a larger number of slower shaders, so it does better on the bigger protiens that are coming out.
Because all protiens are benched on ATI cards expect the PpD of the mid range ATI cards to stay fairly level, maybe a 50% increase in the top range cards.
On the other hand nVidia cards may have a 0-60% drop in PpD with new protiens.

So at the moment nVidia is better but tomorrow it may all change.

Luck ............. :D

Keep in mind, we are dealing with Stanford, it could change tommorow and then the day after that;)



 
I seem to be the major ATI person here.

I have
1 x 4870 (Fired Yesterday but getting RMA done now
2 x 4850
2 x 4850 (Ordered 2 days ago)

Preformance:(Note I am a beta tester for F@H so I can't give you state on production)
The 4870 gets about 3400-3500ppd on Current Beta/Alpha Test Units
The 4850 gets about 3100-3200ppd on Current Beta/Alpha Test Units

I do have some information on what is instore for the ATI client, but has been asked not to share details yet. The 48xx series still has some headroom for a PPD increase.
I can say that the two clients (ATI & nVidia) will be about equal after some more fixes and updates.

Tiger's comment is 100% correct!
Because the nVidia card has a small number of quick shaders, it does better on small protiens, like the test protien it started with.
The ATI cards have a larger number of slower shaders, so it does better on the bigger protiens that are coming out.
 
I just wish the 48xx cards and the 8xxx, 9xxx cards scored similarly...

If the ATI client starts hitting 4k ppd, and the nVidia clients are stuck around 3500, I'd be pissed.
 
I just wish the 48xx cards and the 8xxx, 9xxx cards scored similarly...

If the ATI client starts hitting 4k ppd, and the nVidia clients are stuck around 3500, I'd be pissed.

Just have to give it a little time. ATI Preformacne will continue to grow.
If some work units are very large labmdas ... you will see the nVidia cards tank.
So you have been warned ..... ....
 
I am folding with a 4850 running in an overclocked pentium dual core 3.2GHz with XP X64. I get around 3050ppd (according to FahSpy) and it maxes out a CPU core also.
 
stock on my 8800GT i get 4200 ppd insanely overclocked i get 5200ppd but uses an entire cpu core for that.. my 4870 on my fileserver gets about 4100ppd with a slight overclock and doesnt use an entire core to run.. so atleast for me.. id rather have the lower PPD and less cpu being used.. but im not totally sure if its the gpu client or if its my crappy 6400+ on this system thats the issue since im running a be-2350 on my fileserver..
 
Anyone know what a 3850 is supposed to produce? I seem to be getting less than 2000PPD on my card and was wondering if that is sub par or expected output. Also, what is considered a good OC? TIA.
 
Just have to give it a little time. ATI Preformacne will continue to grow.
If some work units are very large labmdas ... you will see the nVidia cards tank.
So you have been warned ..... ....

Evil, this is of course not directed at you.

Once again, Stanford or more precisely VJ, is and has taken for granted we all have limitless income. The information being withheld it would seem will once again cost many people who have spent ridiculous amounts of money based on previous hyperbole.

First the original ATI folk got screwed over really well and we were told Nvidia was to be the new hot ticket. Apparently whatever deal was struck with Nvidia is close to being fulfilled so again they turn to ATI, change the programming and fail to even hint that we might want to balance the idea of any future purchases with additional information. These bits of information and knowledge are not state secrets and nothing about them indicates a risk to national security.

I don’t know about you folk but as for myself I am not an unlimited resource. At the moment I have what I have and I don’t plan to change anything in the near or possibly far future.

While I may be in total agreement that Science must grow and expand the people involved, when relying totally on charity for all of your information you don’t take that charity for granted. You don’t run an official forum staffed by the rude even if said forum is free to Stanford.

In short, I am not an entitlement.

I am not advocating anyone turn of their machines in protest or in anger. On the other hand if you are feeling a bit used you owe it to yourself to let VJ know.

People who rely solely on charity must realize that like a bad TV show we can change the channel or turn the machine off.


 
Now for my two cents worth :rolleyes:

I was under the impression that the ATI card would come into itself with the introduction of a new and more complicated WU. (in other words probably equal or excel the nVIDIA cards in PpD numbers, these WU's would take longer to complete and have a different point structure) I was lead to believe the above statements because I was told ATI cards have more shaders than the nVIDIA card. I got that impression reading this forum and other forums, any forum but the Stanford F@H forum. ATM I only have two 8xxx series nVIDIA cards, a 8800GT and a 8800GS. I have zero ATI cards. So I came to believe the number and clock of the graphic shaders were what determined the overall folding capability of each GPU. I'm not familiar with what series ATI cards have the CUDA compiler and I understand only the 8xxx and above series nVIDIA cards have CUDA capability :confused:

As far as making any statement to VJ et al, after seeing the bullcrap that the GPU1 clients went through and then they finally did away with the program ( after many upgrades it cost a lot of people a lot of money) and the unwelcome feeling a new folder gets going to the official Stanford folding forum. I honestly don't think VJ et al really gives a shite about it's volunteer folders. :mad:

So whether VJ cares or not makes no difference to me. I have two 24/7 Q6600 (G0) CPU's doing the WCG program trouble free (locked on cores 0, 1, 2). It seemed every time I turned around the WinSMP clients were EUEing (I don't have the time or interest to "baby sit" them). I had a very low OC, sometimes no OC' at all, I tried different series WinSMP clients (ie 6.22, 6.22r or whatever, extended 5.xx something series, etc) The way I look at it if the GPU2 client starts the EUE thing or the PpD becomes so low on the 8xxx series nVIDIA card or it much more expensive upper brethen I'll just stop F@H and go 100% with the WCG program because "you can take it to the bank" ( and not one of the failing US banks either, one of the oil production banks ie Saudi Arabia, etc) I'm going to try and help medical science with my boxen no matter what anyone does or what anyone thinks. :p

ATM Foldin' and WCGn' for a CURE

 
The information being withheld it would seem will once again cost many people who have spent ridiculous amounts of money based on previous hyperbole.

To be 100% honest, here is the reason I can't say anything on the ATI Future Performance.

1st off, at least on the GPU side, VJ don't even post in those forums, or ever say anything at us. One the ATI side, it is always Dan Ensign & Mike Houston.
For nVidia , Kasson and Scott Legrand

If Stanford or Mike Houston (ATI) come out and say the client is going to get X points per day, and then it does not happen ... everyone would get mad cause they made decisions based on that statement.

Currently, nVidia is a "hot ticket" in the sense it is getting way more PPD then the ATI clients and on cheaper cards.. How much long this will be true is really up to Stanford.

We have already seen the PPD drop on nVidia cards when they hit a lambda unit.
ATI cards *seem* better able to handle these & we all know that all WU are bench marked on an ATI card.

So, if large Lambda units keep going out & ATI clients continues to get faster ..
There will be a equalization of points on the clients or a flight flip in points.

It really seems like some of you want the client to go live, and get X amount of points that never change. And if it does change , everyone gets upset and just goes off.

We have always said, if you buy hardware just for folding, you run the risk of another client getting more PPD down the road. We said it with PS3, then SMP (esp linux), and now nVidia GPU. NO one know what is next, but it will continue to change.

Just buy the hardware you want and fold with it.
Someone is always going to outrun you in PPD no matter what you do.

 
While I agree with you in part you have to have been here a number of years to totally understand my whole position.

This whole thing started out with VJ’s program under Stanford asking for our spare idle computer cycles. I was fine with that as was the team as a whole. It didn’t take long for some teams to be formed and of course with the competition many people added a second or third or more machines. That too was ok and I am as guilty as anyone, I used to have between 26 and 29 boxen running at any one time.

At some point a few short years ago VJ and or someone on the crew figured out how stupid we who fold really are and the game changed. Suddenly if you wanted to play you were going to have to pay. Again, I was willing to pay to play right up to the point where it hit me that this was becoming not only abusive on the part of Stanford but many of us found it changing our lifestyles.

So, at the moment I’m down to three machines and I have drawn a line in the sand so to speak where I will no longer throw good hardware after bad hardware away just to satisfy VJ’s lust for power. If and when the gear I have now becomes totally inefficient to provide a good cost to work unit ratio I will be done.

With three quads alone that is 40 freaking GHZ of computing power considering all four cores of all three quads are running all out. That doesn’t even include the GPU power. Add up everyone folding Stanford has the largest computer in the world. If they can’t use it properly, fuckem.;)


 
While I agree with you in part you have to have been here a number of years to totally understand my whole position.

This whole thing started out with VJ’s program under Stanford asking for our spare idle computer cycles. I was fine with that as was the team as a whole. It didn’t take long for some teams to be formed and of course with the competition many people added a second or third or more machines. That too was ok and I am as guilty as anyone, I used to have between 26 and 29 boxen running at any one time.

At some point a few short years ago VJ and or someone on the crew figured out how stupid we who fold really are and the game changed. Suddenly if you wanted to play you were going to have to pay. Again, I was willing to pay to play right up to the point where it hit me that this was becoming not only abusive on the part of Stanford but many of us found it changing our lifestyles.

So, at the moment I’m down to three machines and I have drawn a line in the sand so to speak where I will no longer throw good hardware after bad hardware away just to satisfy VJ’s lust for power. If and when the gear I have now becomes totally inefficient to provide a good cost to work unit ratio I will be done.

With three quads alone that is 40 freaking GHZ of computing power considering all four cores of all three quads are running all out. That doesn’t even include the GPU power. Add up everyone folding Stanford has the largest computer in the world. If they can’t use it properly, fuckem.;)



So you drew a line in the sand that you werent donating any more hardware to the cause, then made a post asking about how the ATI cards were doing, and finally decided to derail your own post by ranting about how poorly this DC project has been run? :rolleyes: Call me crazy but I guess I'm not sure what your intentions are with this post. Are you interested in purchasing an ATI card or did you just want to create a post that you could (yet again) bash the f@h project's management? :confused:

Bill I dont mean any disrespect here, I know you are a long time contributor to the project and I think we all appreciate that contribution. However to me this forum should be about encouraging current and potential folders to donate to medical research and further human knowledge. I cant help but feel that you constant negative posts about VJ and the f@h project can only be discouraging people from contributing to the project. I know that you are just trying to warn people not to dump boatloads of money into DEDICATED folding hardware but it just seems to me like many of your posts are just coming off as quite negative posts toward the project in general. Just something to think about.
 
Anyone know what a 3850 is supposed to produce? I seem to be getting less than 2000PPD on my card and was wondering if that is sub par or expected output. Also, what is considered a good OC? TIA.

Let me see if I can get this post back on track by talking about some ATI hardware. Apollo - I have a 3870 and I am getting right at about 2000 PPD with these lambda units. These units perform better than the older units for me as the older units were more CPU intensive and I only have a 2.4GHz Athlon X2 in that rig.

Seems like the ATI clients are still a bit more CPU intensive than the Nvidia units. My new 4850 is "only" doing about 2700 PPD where I have heard other estimates on the forums about 3000+ PPD with these cards. I can only assume my couple year old processor is to blame. :D
 
Saying you're going to quit smoking and doing it are two very different things. Now look around at some of the ppl who are here and replace the word smoking with folding. lol

I would love so see some comparison charts thrown up with different ATI cards running the newer clients vs the Nvidia cards. I currently have no ATI cards above a 9600gt so I cant help there and dont run any monitoring programs. So finding things out here is my only way to get a good impression of the things that are changing in the folding arena.
 
So you drew a line in the sand that you werent donating any more hardware to the cause, then made a post asking about how the ATI cards were doing, and finally decided to derail your own post by ranting about how poorly this DC project has been run? :rolleyes: Call me crazy but I guess I'm not sure what your intentions are with this post. Are you interested in purchasing an ATI card or did you just want to create a post that you could (yet again) bash the f@h project's management? :confused:

Bill I dont mean any disrespect here, I know you are a long time contributor to the project and I think we all appreciate that contribution. However to me this forum should be about encouraging current and potential folders to donate to medical research and further human knowledge. I cant help but feel that you constant negative posts about VJ and the f@h project can only be discouraging people from contributing to the project. I know that you are just trying to warn people not to dump boatloads of money into DEDICATED folding hardware but it just seems to me like many of your posts are just coming off as quite negative posts toward the project in general. Just something to think about.

No disrespect taken in any form.

The battle with VJ is 7 years old now and I have never stopped nor tried to discourage anyone from folding in fact I’ve brought many to folding.

Keep in mind I am way older then VJ and business wise I have done way more than VJ. I’ve been the employee, the employer and consultant.

With that in mind the FAH project would be in my estimation almost twice as big as it is now save for the complete mishandling of the business end at Stanford. I doubt anyone is more responsible for the loss of the collective then 7im over at the “official” forum. I would place VJ at number two.

The simple fact that Alpha clients that still don’t work have been released into the wild is a perfect example, except we are to call them Beta.

While the good Doctor may be a great scientist as an administrator he has redefined incompetence. I keep hoping the higher up types at Stanford will fix this situation.

Lest you believe I am too harsh, talk to relic. I don’t believe he is capable of a VJ discussion without a torrent of profanity.

I stay at this because I believe in the cause and the cause is righteous, I don’t believe allowing the Galactically Stupid to administrate the program is in anybody’s interest. More could be done with what we have and it isn’t. I seek change, it's pretty simple;)
 
Let me see if I can get this post back on track by talking about some ATI hardware. Apollo - I have a 3870 and I am getting right at about 2000 PPD with these lambda units. These units perform better than the older units for me as the older units were more CPU intensive and I only have a 2.4GHz Athlon X2 in that rig.

Seems like the ATI clients are still a bit more CPU intensive than the Nvidia units. My new 4850 is "only" doing about 2700 PPD where I have heard other estimates on the forums about 3000+ PPD with these cards. I can only assume my couple year old processor is to blame. :D

The new Cal dll that were released about 3 weeks ago will greatly help with cpu usage.

My CPU usage on a 1.6Ghz E2140 is 12% on all work units.
Getting 3200 PPD on 4850 & 3400 PPD on 4870

Go download and put the new DLL's in the F@H folder. (For Vista Only right now)
http://ati.amd.com/technology/streamcomputing/sdkdwnld.html
Get the 32 bit Vista and replace your current Dll's with those.
 
Thanks for the tip Evil. I think I will try this out tonight when I get home. So I downloaded the SDK and extracted it. Looks like there are two msi's in the package? I just need to install the CAL and move the dlls to the folding directory? Looks like there are 3 DLL's correct?

BTW - Will this work with Vista 64?
 
Thanks for the tip Evil. I think I will try this out tonight when I get home. So I downloaded the SDK and extracted it. Looks like there are two msi's in the package? I just need to install the CAL and move the dlls to the folding directory? Looks like there are 3 DLL's correct?

BTW - Will this work with Vista 64?

I haven't found any win client that won't run under Vista 64. Make very sure all your old files are complety gone. An unused folding client can cause a multitude of hair pulling and vocabulary degrading issues.;)

Luck;)
 
BTW - Will this work with Vista 64?

Yes, but you will need to use the Vista 32 dll's. (Client is still 32 bit)

When you install the package, you will need to look for:

amdcalcl.dll
amdcalrt.dll

Find those in the folder where the package was installed (In Vista 32 folder)
and replace the ones in the F@H folder ..

Then you are good to go!

 
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