Cabling a house I just bought

O

Orddie

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Dec 20, 2010
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Hi all,

Just got my first home and have a need to add wired network.

I have an addic that runs over the entire house and my thought was to replace each phone drop with a network drop.

How much of a pain is this going to be?
 
I'd leave the phone lines in place. Just install new panels and drop the data in with it.
 
Do it from the basement. Cut hole in wall where you want a jack, get a very long bit and drill down (longer the better as you can get a straighter down angle) then locate hole in basement and push wires up.

Attics are a pain to work in. Though if you're going to do it from there, now is the time to do it since it wont be hot up there. If you're doing the whole house in one go you can always just push all the insulation asside then put it back after. Consider some vertical conduits for main feed runs from the patch panel assuming that will be in the basement. May be able to use an existing chimney chase.
 
hi guys

Thanks for the response thus far. I do not have a basement. Just attic and the house was done back in the 90's. How do i access the walls from the attic?
 
Poke around in the insulation for the king stud (the top one)for each wall. Drill in the center of it through to the stud bay. Cut your box holes out with a keyhole saw and install your low voltage rings. I prefer the more rigid orange ones at Home Depot or Lowes.
 
valve has good advice- the top stud of any wall should be visible from the attic- you will probably need to move insulation. Be careful of compressing any insulation (it loses R-value when compressed) and of course, be careful of stepping through your ceiling.
Depending how the existing wiring is done, you may be able to follow the phone line and use that hole. If the hole is too small, drill a 1/2"-3/4" hole near it and use the new hole.
Locating outlet rings and the hole into the same stud bay can be tricky. Easiest is to use a bellhanger bit (long somewhat flexible drill bit), you may also need a tool to position and hold the drill bit. You can also use reference points- such as note where an AC receptacle is on the wall and seeing corresponding wire in the attic, or measuring so far from a corner and seeing the same corner in the attic. You have ~ 15.5" in order to hit the stud bay- you don't have to hit dead center.
Stay away from outside walls- unless you have the right tools and are familiar with their use, outside walls are next to impossible to run wires because of the insulation. Interior walls are not insulated.
If you are drilling in a stud bay that may have AC wiring, do yourself a favor and kill the power to that room- remember, outlets and lighting should be on separate circuits.
 
A trick I learned from someone for finding the right spot to drill the hole from the attic is to locate on the wall where you want the jack to be. Go to the ceiling above that wall and push a straighten out metal coat hanger through the ceiling an inch or two from the wall. Then go in the attic and find the coat hanger and drill your hole in the top plate next it. This way you have no guess work as to where to drill the hole.

Patching the small hole from the coat hanger should only take a dab of putty and a dab of paint. Much easier than using measuring tape to identify the spot.

Note you want to be between studs not on a stud so us a stud finder on the wall to pick your spot.

Another tip for you, after you drop that cable in the top plate and everything is done, go back with fire chaulk and seal the holes around the cable. This is actually a very important fire safety tip. Fires grow much faster when they have holes in the wall to breath.
 
m1abram said:
Another tip for you, after you drop that cable in the top plate and everything is done, go back with fire chaulk and seal the holes around the cable. This is actually a very important fire safety tip. Fires grow much faster when they have holes in the wall to breath.
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This is not part of code any more. I'd research before plugging up all the holes in your house.
 
so i hit a snag. the outlit i was trying out first i thought would be easy and here is why.

There was two TV cables in the wall outlet. Going into the attic, there were two TV cables going into the same hole. Sweet! I was thinking. Looks like the other owner wanted the TV cable outlet moved at some point so they looped it in the jack and ran the cable else where (only my thoughts thus far).

So in I went with a considerable amount of cable... and still saw nothing at the outlet. Keep in mind this is going to the first floor of the house, and the attic is above the second floor.

So... I cut the one TV cable's end, tied a rope on the end and went up to the attic and pulled the cable. up came the cable w/ the rope still attached. SWEET!

Tied the cat 5 cable to the tv cable and told my partner to pull the other end.

It's stuck.

Somewhere in the wall... the cable with cat5 cable is stuck. The rope we used was not very strong (yarn... I know.. lol, right?) so im not really willing to tug on it very hard in fear of the yarn breaking completely.

It also does not look like the hole in the attic lines up with a straight drop to the outlet.


any suggestions?
 
There is going to be a double plate in the wall between stories- it's not a straight open shot. You'll need to attach the cable/rope so it can fit through a smaller hole. either a pulling sock (looks like a Chinese finger trap) or butt-splice with lots of electrical tape.
 
I would suggest pulling a stronger string/rope up by attaching it to the yarn and pulling it back up to the attic then attaching it to the Cat cable and pulling it back down.

I think this would be the best bet to salvage this run but I haven't pull cable from the attic to the first floor.
 
Red Squirrel said:
I'd do it anyway as you don't want an air leak. Major heat loss and possible condensation issue in the attic.
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Fireblocking was specifically removed from the code. Heat loss from a 3/4" hole in a stud bay into an insulated and ventilated attic is not going to be the calamitous event you suggest.

AFAIK, the fireblocking rules were removed because it tended to trap fire in living areas. My suggestion is to investigate the issue before following any advice contrary to code, which is written primarily for fire safety.
 
RocketTech said:
Fireblocking was specifically removed from the code. Heat loss from a 3/4" hole in a stud bay into an insulated and ventilated attic is not going to be the calamitous event you suggest.

AFAIK, the fireblocking rules were removed because it tended to trap fire in living areas. My suggestion is to investigate the issue before following any advice contrary to code, which is written primarily for fire safety.
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And in 10 years someone will come up with another reason for why we should seal all the cracks in a house, only to be overturned once again. I come from a family of builders, this debate has been going back and forth for at least 60 years. I agree with you, no fireblocking on interior walls. If you're drilling through an existing fireblock, into an attached garage for example, you should seal it. Codes change widely from town to town, so its always a good idea to talk with your local code enforcer if you're planning any big changes. I wouldn't bother for running low voltage cable though.

The OP should definitely invest in some pull cord from your local home improvement store. For the problem you are in now, the easiest way is to add another drop. Most likely your cable is stuck in the hole between the first and second floors (unless the cable was installed before the walls were finished). So find the bay that the cable is in on the second floor, and make a hole in the wall near the floor to find it. Once you get the cable through that, just put a workbox in the hole instead of patching it. You can add another drop and put it in the work box if you want to make it useful. That way, if you ever need to replace the wire, or add more, you can just take the work box out.
 
RocketTech said:
Fireblocking was specifically removed from the code. Heat loss from a 3/4" hole in a stud bay into an insulated and ventilated attic is not going to be the calamitous event you suggest.

AFAIK, the fireblocking rules were removed because it tended to trap fire in living areas. My suggestion is to investigate the issue before following any advice contrary to code, which is written primarily for fire safety.
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Still does not hurt to block any potential heat loss. One single hole may not do much of a difference but if there are like 10 it will. Also a way for mice to travel throughout living quarter if you happen to get any. The biggest concern is condensation. +23C moist air hitting -50C air in January is definitly going to condense.

And don't you want to "trap" the fire? If the fire can go out it will spread, not exit.
 
If you want to come up from the basement you'll have to drill through your joist and bottom plate. Unless of course you just drill a hole from the floor to the basement, which is really sloppy.
 
bigdogchris said:
If you want to come up from the basement you'll have to drill through your joist and bottom plate. Unless of course you just drill a hole from the floor to the basement, which is really sloppy.
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Depending on the house layout, interior walls do not have to exist above a joist. In fact most of your non-load bearing walls will probably not be on top of a joist. The hard part about drilling UP into a wall is knowing where the wall is since all you probably see is plywood. So it is usually best to drill down into the basement, however double check where you are drilling to make sure you do not hit a water pipe, gas line, electrical, duct work, etc.
 
Well... I got the job done after a few broken cables and lots of hours of trying. What really screwed me was trying to run a wire across multi floors. Sucks...

But the real kicker that I found...
IMG_2536.jpg

IMG_2537.jpg

IMG_2539.jpg
 
If that is in an un-occupied attic, it's because moisture is trapped between the board face and the insulation. Those sheets shouldn't be there.
 
im new 2 this so please bear with me. the sheets were there to add storage to the attic. your saying that should not be?
 
Oh that sucks. Check to ensure your soffits have proper ventilation. The boards are fine assuming they're not crushing the insulation. You want at least R60 in there... If they're right against the joists you don't have enough insulation.

While you're up there ensure there's a proper vapor barrier. Insulation is worth nothing if there's no air seal.
 
i have no idea what that means honestly..

Sounds like a i need a guy to come take a look @ what i got and go from there. we did an @ home mold test and it came up clean... though still has 24 hours left on the timer.
 
Come to think of it, this is something the home inspector should have caught. ;)

Better call Saul... err, Holmes.
 
Whenever you see mold it is because there is too much moisture and not enough ventilation. The sheet wood is probably laying flat against the insulation, which traps moisture against the bottom of the board.
If you get some ventilation under the sheets, you should be fine- lay down some 1x1 or 2X2 strips and then the sheets on top and you should be fine.
Soffits are between the lowest part of your roof and the side of the house and allow (along with roof/gable vents) ventilation of your attic, which is a good thing. If you had bad ventilation in the attic proper, I'd expect to see mold on the other side of the sheet as well.

It looks like you have blown insulation, and you do not want to compact that- compacting it causes it to lose insulative value. You can check with local builders/code enforcement to see what is required.
 
thanks everyone for the help thus far! Im now on to the kitchen and this is going to be the hard for more me...

our house has phone line runs into the house. One in the kitchen and one in the master bedroom. They just so happen to be vertically on top of one another. The best part is.. My make shift wire closet is in the spare bedroom closet (now turned into my office.. hence where all the computer stuff is going) which share the same wall. My Idea is that i pop a hole in the wall of the closet in the spare bed room, find the cable which is running down stairs into the kitchen, and use it to fish the cat 5 downstairs. The question is how.. My thought is that since the master bedroom and office are next to one another, they should share the same studs. So i measured from the master bedroom closet over to the wall outlet which resulted in 35". I then went into the office and measued from the far side of the closet to 35". I tried to use my stud finder to find the stud at the location and turns out there is none (according the finder). The closest stud is 10 inches to the left, 6 to the right. Any idea before i go popping some holes?

This is the bedroom phone jack
IMG_2588.jpg


This is the kitchen.
IMG_2589.JPG
 
If the wires are stapled, you won't be pulling very far. Make sure you measure from a common wall, such as an exterior wall or straight hall.
Old Work boxes may have been used, which will not be attached to studs. The boxes in the pictures don't look like Old Work boxes though.
 
right. i can see they are hammered into the stud and i do think the wires are stapled. I tried to pull the upstairs on yesterday and did not get far @ all.

any suggestions?
 
Same as before- drill through the floor with a bellhanger bit and either drop the cable through the hole or use a fiberglass cable fishing pole to bring the cable through.
 
im not sure who that's going to work... i need to be in the wall.. not the floor or am i missing something?
 
You are going to be in the wall. He is talking about the bottom plate and top plates in the wall.

Check youtube for bellhanger wall bit to get an idea.
 
djflow195 said:
You are going to be in the wall. He is talking about the bottom plate and top plates in the wall.

Check youtube for bellhanger wall bit to get an idea.
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Thanks djflow- what I meant exactly. You'll need a decent drill and patience, as well as making sure the bit goes relatively straight. Running wire between floors inside a wall can be tricky but is completely do-able.
 
Yeah I always found the drill down method to be the easiest. Then just go in the basement and look for saw dust on the floor to quickly find the hole. :D Then pull cable from the top by putting in into the hole and pull to the patch panel, cut upstairs leaving enough slack in case you mess up any ends.
 
the hard part here is that i have no basement. Im drilling from the second floor to the first.
 
Understood. Like I said- tricky but do-able. Take your time. If you have a helper, you can stir the bellhanger bit around so it beats against the wall in the kitchen and you can tell where it is. If not, measure carefully from an outside wall. Inside walls on different levels may look the same, but often are off a little.
Understanding how homes are built so you can 'see' what is happening when drilling (going through bottom plate, subfloor, are you in the joist(bad) or joist space(good), hitting the top plate of the floor below, etc. You'll be tempted to think you are all the way through when you are actually in the joist space. You may also think you are in the joist when there is a double plate in the wall.
Every time you open a wall you should be looking for hazards, such as AC wiring, gas lines, water lines, HVAC ducting, etc. If you see any of those, you need to evaluate your skill level and plan.
You're doing the right thing by taking it slow and asking questions. Visualize in your mind what should happen, and stop if what you are experiencing is not the same as what you planned.
 
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