CableCARDs freed from OEM Requirment

This is all perfect timing considering my parents just got notified that FIOS is available where they live... and you can use CableCards with FIOS!

Makes my HTPC solution for them so much easier.
 
visionviper said:
This is all perfect timing considering my parents just got notified that FIOS is available where they live... and you can use CableCards with FIOS!

Makes my HTPC solution for them so much easier.
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I'm infinitely jealous.
 
Zachstar said:
300 USD? No thanks...
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I don't think $100 a tuner is that bad. Obviously I wish it was cheaper but at $399 for a quad tuner setup I don't think I wouldn't buy one.

My guess is the 4 tuner comes out for $399 and sells fairly well since the enthusiasts have been paying $200+ for single tuners. Then by the time they are ready to release the 2 tuner model prices will have dropped.
 
I wonder if these are CableCard only or will support the Tru2Way stuff, a Tru2Way card would be bad ass for interactive services. I could deal with just a CableCard.
 
-Dragon- said:
I wonder if these are CableCard only or will support the Tru2Way stuff, a Tru2Way card would be bad ass for interactive services. I could deal with just a CableCard.
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im not sure, but i do know that one huge argument has been that cable cards dont allow pay-per-view content, so there was huge licensing problems trying to get a cable card into pc's. i would bet they finally agreed on terms and the cablecards can now provide the same content as a stb. im assuming. i think. maybe.
 
CableCards are one way devices, they can recieve premium content as provisioned by the provider but they can't communicate back to the cable company's out of band network for the purpose of ppv/interactive content.

Tru2Way cards look the same but they actually have a cable modem built into the TV or card they plug in to that allows the TV (or in this case PC) to communicate back to the cable company through the same path cable internet or cable phone service uses to allow PPV and other interactive content that way.

CableCards let you watch things like HBO and Show Time on your own devices "live", T2W lets you do that plus access PPV/OnDemand/InDemand/whatever your cable provider calls it as well.
 
wow this is very interesting...let me get this straight...this will allow you to build a htpc. ..using windows media center build as your digital cable box?
 
Yes for non interactive content at the least, which as I stated above is still super for me. I'd probably buy one of these even at the $600 price point because I've wanted this for years now (since the annoyingly locked down ATI card came out).
 
-Dragon- said:
CableCards are one way devices, they can recieve premium content as provisioned by the provider but they can't communicate back to the cable company's out of band network for the purpose of ppv/interactive content.

Tru2Way cards look the same but they actually have a cable modem built into the TV or card they plug in to that allows the TV (or in this case PC) to communicate back to the cable company through the same path cable internet or cable phone service uses to allow PPV and other interactive content that way.

CableCards let you watch things like HBO and Show Time on your own devices "live", T2W lets you do that plus access PPV/OnDemand/InDemand/whatever your cable provider calls it as well.
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To do the bidirectional stuff you need to implement OCAP. This sucks as the cable company gets to push down their guide/UI and that's the experience you'd see. IT would totally take away the MC experience. This would suck. I can't imagine MS ever adding this in or Tivo for that matter.
 
This might be useful. I just recently upgraded to an HD package and I would love to be able to record some ESPN games.

Is ESPN on that list with HBO and ShowTime?
 
brennok said:
I don't think $100 a tuner is that bad. Obviously I wish it was cheaper but at $399 for a quad tuner setup I don't think I wouldn't buy one.

My guess is the 4 tuner comes out for $399 and sells fairly well since the enthusiasts have been paying $200+ for single tuners. Then by the time they are ready to release the 2 tuner model prices will have dropped.
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At most I will pay 200USD for a dual tuner solution but only if I decide its worth it. Paying insane funds for hardware that was supposed to be cheap years ago is almost laughable.

If Dish Network had not been so silly as to remove their prepaid option I would not even need cable..
 
i agree $100 per tuner is plenty. its not like they cost anywhere near that to make... its all legal fees and ceo profit.

i dont even know why im excited by this anyway. i want IPTV to ruin all force-fed types of television. you should be able to have every channel available to you freely, and only pay for the premium ones you want. the internet will do that for us, it just hasnt happent quite yet.
 
The R&D, Cable Labs certification, and support costs are extremely high. That is why they cost more than generic SD/ATSC tuners.
 
danman said:
The R&D, Cable Labs certification, and support costs are extremely high. That is why they cost more than generic SD/ATSC tuners.
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Yea but I wouldnt say they are much higher....especially for what you get.

For instance, a good single ATSC/QAM tuner will cost you roughly $60. Take that x4 and your at $240.
When you look at it that way....to me at least....$300 aint so bad.

And your not using as much mobo real estate to do it.
 
low demand for a product = high prices because they dont move enough volume to warrent low profit margins.

we would all lovethe tuner, but in the non-[H] world people are barely paying for DVR system...
 
Adidas4275 said:
low demand for a product = high prices because they dont move enough volume to warrent low profit margins.

we would all lovethe tuner, but in the non-[H] world people are barely paying for DVR system...
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im not so sure about that. every single person i know that has seen my htpc system has asked how they can do it too. i tell them it sucks, because you have to use an IR blaster to change a normal STB and just hope and pray it all works right and you dont get pissed off from being so annoyed by how it has to work.

if i could just tell them "it cost X amount of money, but if you pay you get a nice easy setup" then it would be a whole different story.
 
If that was the case Tivo would be bankrupt. Modern Tivo systems use cablecards and tivo moves quite a few units.
 
Zachstar said:
Yes there is going to be higher costs due to royalties and such but R&D Cablecards have been out for almost a decade now. The law requiring such was passed OVER a decade ago. R&D is long past especially for such a simple device.
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You have to pay for the certification costs. And Cable Labs certifies every product. These aren't some product that a small mom and pop company can do.
 
danman said:
You have to pay for the certification costs. And Cable Labs certifies every product. These aren't some product that a small mom and pop company can do.
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And the cost of certification is roughly $1500 per product line. Zach, it's just not R&D. :rolleyes:
 
I'm a little out of the loop on the newer tech, so can someone clear this up a little?

The Cablecard would allow me to remove my STB from my Home Theater setup, and still get all of the HD and digital programming?
 
eventually, yes. but it looks like right now that its only for most the channels. you cant do the payperview stuff.
 
SarverSystems said:
I'm a little out of the loop on the newer tech, so can someone clear this up a little?

The Cablecard would allow me to remove my STB from my Home Theater setup, and still get all of the HD and digital programming?
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Yes but it doesn't do payperview if that's important to you (not me, I know very few whom that matters to them. Don't know why everyone else acts likes a big deal).
 
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CrimandEvil said:
Yes but it doesn't do payperview if that's important to you (not me, I know very few whom that matters to them. Don't know why everyone else acts likes a big deal).
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The pay per view isn't a big deal, but the On Demand is a HUGE deal. I don't know when the last time I watched anything on HBO or Showtime that was on the regular "broadcast" channels. HBO and Showtime on demand are the only reasons to pay for the service. Also, being able to get kids shows on demand is really nice for my daughter.

I've never bought a PPV in my life, but no On Demand kills it. Sucks, too, as I had already gotten my wife on-board for building a new HTPC.
 
spadefoot said:
The pay per view isn't a big deal, but the On Demand is a HUGE deal. I don't know when the last time I watched anything on HBO or Showtime that was on the regular "broadcast" channels. HBO and Showtime on demand are the only reasons to pay for the service. Also, being able to get kids shows on demand is really nice for my daughter.

I've never bought a PPV in my life, but no On Demand kills it. Sucks, too, as I had already gotten my wife on-board for building a new HTPC.
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Who needs On Demand when you record the show? On Demand for the kids is a different story though.
 
HBO and showtime frequently run back episodes and things like that. Additionally, I like to watch a movie when I'm ready to watch a movie, rather than trying to find one ahead of time and record it. We do have Netflix On Demand, and I guess we could use that, but the selection often leaves something to be desired.

I guess my point is, without OD, I wouldn't pay for HBO or showtime, since that's the only part of those channels I use.
 
spadefoot said:
The pay per view isn't a big deal, but the On Demand is a HUGE deal. I don't know when the last time I watched anything on HBO or Showtime that was on the regular "broadcast" channels. HBO and Showtime on demand are the only reasons to pay for the service. Also, being able to get kids shows on demand is really nice for my daughter.

I've never bought a PPV in my life, but no On Demand kills it. Sucks, too, as I had already gotten my wife on-board for building a new HTPC.
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you have a really good point. i have a feeling though, we will get the 2way cablecards soon... its a really big push to do it because im pretty sure the FCC wants customers to have the full service.
 
2way requires OCAP. It will never happen on the HTPC as the cable provider would push down their UI. That would be just terrible. Get a cable box if you want VOD.
 
danman said:
2way requires OCAP. It will never happen on the HTPC as the cable provider would push down their UI. That would be just terrible. Get a cable box if you want VOD.
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neva say neva. the FCC thinks cable companies should provide equal opportunity to all customers. microsoft has been pushing to get htpc's inside the crowd, and i think its finally happening because win7 has the proper drm support for it. i wouldnt be surprised to hear within the next year that some provider is coming out with a fully compatible usb or pci solution.... well, i have to hope anyway :)
 
krupted said:
neva say neva. the FCC thinks cable companies should provide equal opportunity to all customers. microsoft has been pushing to get htpc's inside the crowd, and i think its finally happening because win7 has the proper drm support for it. i wouldnt be surprised to hear within the next year that some provider is coming out with a fully compatible usb or pci solution.... well, i have to hope anyway :)
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It's never going to happen anytime soon.
1.) MS decided not to support h264 as it's video capture codec. It still uses MPEG2 which most HD providers outside the US don't use anymore and the Sat providers here (in the US) have switched over to h264 as well.

2.) Speaking of the Sat providers, both Dish and DirecTV have dumped their MC Sat tuners even though both had rather mature hardware and successful beta testing. These guys were both aimed at 7MC too.

3.) Media Center development is now on the "once a year" update cycle that Windows is on. The only real, fruitful MC updates we'll get are once a year at best.

4.) I don't agree that MS has been pushing to get HTPCs "inside the crowd." They've undercut MC every chance they've gotten if it means competing with their 360. MC Extender still don't have the same codec support that the Dashboard does even though the Extender part should be superior (when it comes to codec installed on the PC). Hell, MS is just now getting around to including Netflix support long after the Dashboard had it (and it doesn't even work in Extender).
 
Two reasons why Netflix doesn't work in extender mode:

1. Extender mode doesn't support Silverlight like the PC does.

2. MS makes money for each user that signs up for Netflix via the 360. No money is made from MCE.
 
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