C2D temps revisited....

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Cooling' started by TheRapture, Mar 31, 2007.

  1. TheRapture

    TheRapture [H]ardness Supreme

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    There has been much lengthy discussion on the C2D temps using TAT, speedfan 4.32, and coretemp .95....

    So, which one is correct? I have the E6400 (Allendale) with a big tyhpoon, at 3.2ghz and 1.36vcore under load, which gets me either 60c load temps (speedfan) under ORTHOS or 75c load temps (TAT and Coretemp agree)?????

    One of them is wrong....while I would like to believe the lower range I want to be sure, since TAT loading can push my temps up to 80c or so....

    [​IMG]
     
  2. SuperKeijo

    SuperKeijo Gawd

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    TAT and coretemp 0.95 are right. Old coretemp and speedfan have an offset of -15c. But I woudn't worry about temps monitored with TAT and CT0.95 in the low 80's. I too can get the temps over 80 with the built in torture test in TAT with c2d running 1.5v and 3300MHz. But 24/7 use I keep it at 3GHz and stock voltage. At 3GHz TAT only goes to about 70-73, so overvolting and overclocking does have a dramatic impulse on those temps. Reading with speedfan, which monitors the temp between the cores or something rises even more dramatically when overclocking.

    This is what I get after around 10 minutes of load:

    [​IMG]
     
  3. TheRapture

    TheRapture [H]ardness Supreme

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    So my idle temps of ~46c and loads of 75c using ORTHOS are good to go then. Games never even approach the temps that ORTHOS does....I even went back into the BIOS and set fsb to 402 and pci to 105, seems to have increased stability on TAT loading, I was getting an error "multiple_irp_complete_request" BSOD previously. I think getting past 400 changed the bootstrap.....
     
  4. SuperKeijo

    SuperKeijo Gawd

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    What kind of temps do you get loading the cpu using TAT, not orthos?
     
  5. TheRapture

    TheRapture [H]ardness Supreme

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    With TAT I can hit 80c-82c.....warmer than I am happy with , but TAT loads the cpu far more than anything, even if I run 2 instances of folding AND orthos at the same time, it stays at least 5c lower than what TAT can do....
     
  6. SuperKeijo

    SuperKeijo Gawd

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    It may run very stable and everything, but if I were you I would drop down to 3GHz and lower the voltage down as low as it will go. I'm sure that will knock off atleast 10c and the performance only drops by few percent. I'm surprised that TAT only gets your temps 5-7c higher that orthos. I get a 10c difference.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. TheRapture

    TheRapture [H]ardness Supreme

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    I might check into my cpu contact, at stock clocks using TAT, I can still get to 65c-6c......of course that all depends on ambient temps and case cooling, I have a Tsunami, quiet, I would call it moderate airflow, and a warmer than average room....ambient ~76f to 78f. (about 25c).
     
  8. SuperKeijo

    SuperKeijo Gawd

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    What cooling do you have? I have a scythe ninja with a very low noise 12cm fan.
     
  9. TheRapture

    TheRapture [H]ardness Supreme

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    Thermaltake big Typhoon with low noise 120mm fan.
     
  10. 123Lanoix

    123Lanoix 2[H]4U

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    i have a problem running tat it keeps crashing at 100% on both cores
    i can run each indivual core fine at 100%
    my computer specs are DS3 rev 2.0 Core2 E4300 OCZ PC8800 GOLD DDR2 2gigs
    orginal Ninja heatsink with a 120mm Thermaltake fan
    settings in bios
    367FSB 9Multi SPD 2.66 Ram 976mhz 4-4-4-10 2T v 2.2 Cpu v1.362 PCI v .1+ 101mhz
    FSB .1+ MCH .1+ what i don;'t understand is my computer is 100% stable running windows vista play C&C stalker all day long never crashes or anything abnormal
    ive had voltages on cpu all the way up to 1.43 v and ram up .5+
    and it preforms the same but if i go up or down on FSB from 667 it won;t boot into windows and i can't give it any less voltage on CPU
    iam temps don't even get to 60c when full load when playing games
    idle is like 35c-40c load is like 40c-55c but when i run TAT it gets to about 77c at 100% load and it gets closer to 80c and beyond then crashes sometimes to a blue screen
    then reboots ive run tat fine at both cores 60% 70% 80% 90% but can't do 100%
    is my computer fucked ??? also CPU-z says i have my FSB at 366 when its set to 367 in bios TAT shows 2934mhz but then shows 3300 next to temps
    is my computer fucked up ?
     
  11. blade52x

    blade52x 2[H]4U

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    Idle for me is 42-45C.

    Load Orthos I get anywhere from 55-60C.

    TAT pushed my temps up to 65-66C, though the 2 cores were constantly about 5C different.

    Oh, and lan, your computer is fine. When I mess around with my multiplier, program report different clocks (CPU-Z will report the correct one). Only on the default multiplier will eveery program report the same clock.

    The highest I've really seen a game push my computer temp is 53-54C, and I think some of that is due to my video card giving off massive amounts of heat (even though a lot of it gets exhausted out of the case), the entire ambient temp inside of the case surely goes up.
     
  12. TheRapture

    TheRapture [H]ardness Supreme

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    Don't worry too much about TAT as a cpu loader. It really was not designed for these newer cpu's, it was for the laptop/mobile models. If you can play all your games and run ORTHOS for a few hours with no issues. Fuck what TAT does. It's not alot of fun playing TAT anyways :p
     
  13. TehQuick

    TehQuick 2[H]4U

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    Funny, in my case coretemp and speedfan agree, while tat either is lower (at load) or higher (when idle). I tend to agree with Speedfan/coretemp... I have e6600 on asus p5w
     
  14. jmackay

    jmackay 2[H]4U

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Thats mine, idle (after being on for over 24 hours folding/gaming) and under 100% tat load for 8 mins.

    Folding and everything else expect tat @ 100% on both hovers around 40c
     
  15. 123Lanoix

    123Lanoix 2[H]4U

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    ok thanks for the responds ! you made me sleep easier at night knowning my computer is ok ya TAT is freakin weird program
    i will load orthos
    i think i will keep my current setting and not try for more mhz as the cost of raising voltage and temps don't seem worth it

    my next question is would it be worth it to run SPD 3.0 or 2:3 ratio
    and run my Ram at 1101mhz 5-5-5-15 2T or keep it at what it is now 976 Mhz 4-4-4-10 2T
    SPD 2.66 3:4 ratio ???? my ram is rated for 1100mhz pc8800 ocz GOLD
     
  16. msg1285

    msg1285 Limp Gawd

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    I have the same almost the same setup as you and I'm getting the same results TAT is lower than Speedfan/Coretemp.

    I think that until we can find out for sure which chipsets TAT supports this is kind of pointless. It seems to me that if all three programs are supposed to be reading the same sensor then something has to be throwing them off.
     
  17. cerebrex

    cerebrex [H]ard|Gawd

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    :x I'm idling at 22c load 50c @ 3.2GHz - the max i see in games is 38.. so if your a gamer, your orthos benches are even more than a "worst case " scenario - more realistically it's a "never gonna happen" scenario.
     
  18. TheRapture

    TheRapture [H]ardness Supreme

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    Your temps are great, typical of a good water setup. I really want to run water on this baby, I have access to all kinds of nifty piping and plumbing parts at my work, with a good rad, block, and pump, I can build a sweetass setup.
     
  19. cerebrex

    cerebrex [H]ard|Gawd

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    definately could, grab yourself a cheap pond pump, and a heater core out of a 77 boneville no ac, and you are in business!
     
  20. 123Lanoix

    123Lanoix 2[H]4U

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    do you guys know why when i shut off my pC my computer shutsdown like HD and video and everything but the fans in the case keep going ???
     
  21. SuperKeijo

    SuperKeijo Gawd

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    And the psu is?
     
  22. msg1285

    msg1285 Limp Gawd

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    Have you checked your bios settings?

    Look in the power managment settings and set to S3 and see what your power button options are set to.
     
  23. 123Lanoix

    123Lanoix 2[H]4U

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    PSU is Antec 500w NEO HE
    ive had it for almost 1 1/2 years
     
  24. TehQuick

    TehQuick 2[H]4U

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    My fans are going for 10-15 seconds after I shut-down the computer. I figure it's a mobo feature for cooling-off components and venting any left-over hot air... I like that feature.

    BTW, I recall that TAT vs Speedfan difference in reported core temperatures varies with whether you are on stock vcore or not... Did anyone notice that?
     
  25. 123Lanoix

    123Lanoix 2[H]4U

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    i know wwhat your talking about its not like that
    its like they never shut off unless i manually hold the power button ?
     
  26. cerebrex

    cerebrex [H]ard|Gawd

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    With the S3 who the hell knows what it's doing half the time.
     
  27. dook43

    dook43 2[H]4U

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    This is indicating that TAT and Coretemp 0.95 assume an incorrect tJunction value of 100C, so adjust your temps -15C from these 2 programs.

    Note: This is only for L2 Allendale E4300/4400/6300/6400
     
  28. hmz

    hmz 2[H]4U

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    Here is mine. Prime is running over 3 hours. Using Zalman 9700.

    [​IMG]
     
  29. unclewebb

    unclewebb [H]ard|Gawd

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    CoreTemp 0.95 is definitely right for the original E6x00 Conroe based processors. It is also correct in reporting the new Allandale E4300 processor. The E4300 has a Tjunction of 100C which means it won't start throttling until it hits ~97C.

    The earlier Conroe processors have a Tjunction of 85C.

    Most of the core processors used in laptops all have an Intel documented Tjunction of 100C so it shouldn't be too surprising that the E4300 Allendale also has a Tjunction of 100C.

    The formula used is:
    CoreTemp = Tjunction - DTS

    DTS is the reading from the digital thermal sensor within the Intel C2D. Your processor reaches its maximum temperature when the DTS signal approaches zero. If Tjunction for the Allendales is really 85C then the reported temperature would be 15C less. The problem with this is that at idle you can end up with a reported temperature below ambient with air cooling which is impossible. This proves that it can't be 85C and must be 100C.

    In the bios lock your computer at 266 x 6 or 200 x 6 for the E4300 and drop your core voltage down to 1.175 to 1.200 volts. If your idle temperature is below your ambient temperature then your monitoring software is wrong.

    CoreTemp 0.95 passes this test. CoreTemp 0.94 does not pass this test on the E4300 which is why he corrected it in the most recent release.
     
  30. dook43

    dook43 2[H]4U

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    I'm not sure it's in agreement with E63/6400 allendale, and several users are having the same problem. If I subtract 15c from the reported values of 40, I have a 25C processor, which is 77F and a few degrees above ambient in my house, which would truly jibe with the results that most people are getting on unloaded Core2 cpus. Right now I am seeing 40 idle and 70 load at 2.66 ghz on an E6400, and that just makes no sense especially in the light of 4 HSF/TIM remountings. 25/55 makes much more sense to me.

    EDIT: I have EIST enabled which drops the multiplier to 6 (but at 333 fsb) and that is where I quote my idle temps as being reported 40. I'll check CoreTemp 0.94 and see what it says.
     
  31. aznbumbaclot

    aznbumbaclot Gawd

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    Are you sure about this? I reseated my e6400 about 3 times because TAT was reading that my processor idled at around 45C/48C for the respective cores and during load at around 73C. I was getting really worried especially since my Scythe Ninja never heats up (that's why I reseated it so many times). I'm fairly confident that my proc is an L2 Allendale (I'll double check when I get back).
     
  32. dook43

    dook43 2[H]4U

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    Im almost certain, but its for L2 e63/6400 only.
     
  33. TheRapture

    TheRapture [H]ardness Supreme

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    Exactly. Right now I am testing some things at 2.8ghz (400x7). I normally run at 3.2ghz which only increases the load temps by about 5c more than at 2.8. I find it hard to believe that my cpu is idling at 44c in an ambient temp of ~27c. If I use the "-15" method for my Allendale E6400, I would be at 29c-30c IDLE which sounds alot closer. Load temps under ORTHOS are reporting as ~67c to 70c depending the AC kicking on and off, and that sure seems high for a 2.8ghz cpu, knock 15c off that and I am at 52c to 55c.

    I am well cooled with a Big Typhoon, decent case venting, and moderate ambient temos not to mention my case has a side intake 80mm that dmps straight into the Typhoon.

    I am still not convinced that Coretemp .95 is reporting correct temps.
     
  34. TheRapture

    TheRapture [H]ardness Supreme

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    Where is the info that proves the Allendales have an Intel spec TJunction of 100c? Sure as hell seems high even for an Intel cpu....I am going to test the 266x6 setting for my Allendale...be back in a bit.
     
  35. unclewebb

    unclewebb [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm certain that the E4300 has a 100C Tjunction temperature and is being reported correctly by CoreTemp 0.95. I don't yet have any evidence concerning the new Allendale E6300/E6400.

    I hope someone with an E6300/E6400 Allendale can use my testing method to try and confirm what the Tjunction actually is. CPUz reports these new processors as Revision L2. Ignore other software programs that sometimes get the Allendale / Conroe info wrong.

    dook43: My test is to slow the processor down and to drop the voltage so it produces as little heat as possible.

    SpeedFan v.4.32 reports the temp of my Revision B2 Conroe core E6400 the same as CoreTemp 0.94 or CoreTemp 0.95 so I used SpeedFan to draw a graph.

    I started with 6 X 333.3 = 2000 MHz with the core voltage at 1.328 volts which is as close to the Intel default of 1.325 volts as I could get. Idle temp at this setting with the OEM cooler was between 29C and 30C.

    [​IMG]

    When using SpeedStep I have watched CPUz report a lower voltage on my board but I think it is an error. The only way to be guaranteed is to lock the multiplier and the voltage in the bios.

    Next I dropped the bios down to 6 X 266.6 = 1600 MHz. This allowed me to drop the core voltage to 1.200 volts in the Asus bios which gave me 1.176 volts as reported by CPUz. Idle temp dropped down to 24C. I then opened up the case and got the idle temp down to 21C with the occasional drop to 20C. Room temperature was 18C to 19C.

    [​IMG]

    If someone can run a similar test with a new Revision L2 Allendale E6300 or E6400 and ends up with idle temps below their ambient temp then we will know that the software they are using is misreporting the core temperature.

    This testing method is a lot more friendly to your processor than bringing it up to 85C or 100C.
     
  36. unclewebb

    unclewebb [H]ard|Gawd

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    If you drop your MHz and core voltage down like I did then your reported idle temp is going to drop down to about 20C or lower which is way below your ambient temperature of 27C. That will prove it.

    Do my test and lets see what temps you really get. Anything below ambient is impossible with air cooling and will prove which CoreTemp version works and which one doesn't.
     
  37. dook43

    dook43 2[H]4U

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    I understand your testing methodology but unfortunately I cannot reboot the PC at will as it is already in use by Media Center and extenders for the wife and kids. :(
     
  38. TheRapture

    TheRapture [H]ardness Supreme

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    OK, here is the test as you described. My idle temps in windows are not below ambient, right now my room is reporting ~25c ambient....cores are reporting 27c and 29c idle via speedfan, TAT and Coretemp show 43c and 45c respectively, NO WAY that seems right at only 1600mhz and 1.17 vcore.....check out the pic.

    [​IMG]
     
  39. TheRapture

    TheRapture [H]ardness Supreme

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    unclewebb, given my warmer than average ambient temps (hey it's south texas here), the temp delta between your 1600mhz/1.2v settings and mine essentially are the same. It seems speedfan on my AllenDale L2 E6400 is correct, while TAT, Coretemp .95 are 15c too high. With an ambient of 25c, my temp delta over that at idle is 2c on one core and 4c on the other, seems reasonable since I have a fairly well vented case and a fresh air dump right into the cooler, no need to remove the case door that way since the cpu cooler is constantly fed fresh air from outside the case.
     
  40. dook43

    dook43 2[H]4U

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    I'd say that's conclusive evidence in our favor. I'd say a 2.8Ghz overclock on stock cooling at 56/57 load ain't bad. Think I can go for broke with 3.2? :D :D :D