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Building System

E

eli

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
1,648
I am building a new system. let me know what you think of it.

http://secure.newegg.com/app/shoppingcart.asp?submit=view


I am going to be using the Antec Sonata case with two Vantec Stealth case fans. I will be using two CDROM drives that I already have. This will be going into an Antec Sonata case. Do you recommend i use the included power supply, or purchase another one?

Later,
Eli
 
The enclosed Power Supply is a Truepower 380. That should be able to handle what ever you put in there, plus your link leads to an empty cart.
 
sorry about that. My specs are:

1. Antec Sonata Case (I will be using two 120mm case fans. Will my WD Raptor stay cool?)
2. WD Raptor SATA Drive (I dont install all my games, I dont have that many MP3's, and absolutely no DVD's. I want speed, and I can afford it.....is this a good option?)
3. Sapphire Radeon 9800 PRO (how does this computer to the BBA version?)
4. DFI Infinity Nforce 2 (any good?)
5. 1GIG of Corsair PC3200 Value Ram (I can afford to get some cas2 ram. Would there be a dramatic speed increase?)
6. Athlon 2500+ W/ retail heatsink (I will upgrade cooling when I need to, but will this get me to 3200+ speeds?)
7. Kenwood CDROM 72X (Already have this)
9. Logitech Optical click mouse, and standard keyboard.
8. Down the road, I will be purchasing a CD Burner and DVD drive, just don't need them quite yet.
9. Using a shitty 17" CRT for now until the Samsung 152X comes
out.

Are there any bottlenecks or known incompatibility issues with the hardware?
Let me know what you think,

Eli
 
Looks good so far.

Consider getting a second (IDE) hard drive, just for the sake of having mass storage.
 
5. 1GIG of Corsair PC3200 Value Ram (I can afford to get some cas2 ram. Would there be a dramatic speed increase?)
Click to expand...


consider Mushkin, tighter timings and over all better speed (pc3500)
 
Stiletto One,


Your right, it really can't hurt to get a storage drive. The only problem is, is that I hear installing a storage drive is hard. Is this so? Since its just storage, should I worry about speed? Also, when browsing through, or using files in my storage drive, will I be using the Raptors speed, or the storage drive's speed....or a little of both. I have asked this question so many times, and haven't got an answer that I could "comprehend". Also, will the two 120mm case fans be sufficient for cooling the HDDs?

Thank you for your advice,
Eli
 
I think those 120mm fans should be fine for HDD cooling and case cooling. Ah, another Kenwood 72X user I see! I have two and one will be going in my new system this weekend. It's the only drive I use for gaming! Of course, now the DVD games will start coming out, so I may have to use my DVD burner for those, hehe.

The only other things I can suggest is getting a non-NForce2 MB (I've heard these can give people fits, don't remember what problems though) and definitely upgrade that heatsink to possibly a Thermalright if you're overclocking. Good Luck!
 
SkaarjMaster,

No Nforce 2? Its the most stable, best overclocking socket 462 board available. I will be upgrading the heatsink later for overclocking. The Kenwood 72X Roxin!


Later man,
Eli
 
Originally posted by eli
Stiletto One,


Your right, it really can't hurt to get a storage drive. The only problem is, is that I hear installing a storage drive is hard. Is this so?
Click to expand...
No, it's definitely not. You might have to shuffle some drive letters around (it's not hard at all), but other than that, it's just like installing a hard drive normally. You won't really even have to worry about jumpers, since the Raptor will be on SATA and the storage drive will just be on IDE by itself. Or on the other SATA channel.

As for speed, stuff will be accessed at the speed of whatever drive it's stored on. The point of the storage drive is putting stuff in a big drive that doesn't have to be accessed Real Fast. Standard procedure is to install a fast drive for apps and scratch space (where you put stuff while you're actively working on it), and then using the storage drive to put everything else.

Example: You have a video-editing computer. You would keep your active projects and clips on the Raptor, and when you're done, you would move everything to the storage drive.

Music and documents and ready-for-viewing video, of course, will be just fine on your storage drive.

As for motherboards, go nForce2 for socket A. I have no clue whatsoever what Skaarj is talking about. :confused:
 
Finally, I can understand what purpose a storage drives serves, thanks to you. 36GB will be good enough for some of my games and MP3's, I'll put the remainder on the storage drive. I guess whatever I am currently using I will keep on the Raptor drive, and the stuff that I am not using that much I'll put on the storage drive. Now, would it be faster to get an IDE storage drive or a SATA one? I mean wouldn't a drive on the primary IDE channel be faster then a drive on the secondary SATA channel? or is the second SATA port identical in speed to the primary SATA? I think I'll just buy the Raptor first, and the storage drive right after I get my system up and running. Just to make things less complicated. Afterall, this is the second computer I've built, and I had some help with the first one, so I am still kind of a newbie.


Also, how would I format the drive once I got it? Would I do it through DOS or something?

Thank you very much for your help:)

Eli
 
also, are there any bottlenecks? Is the Radeon 9800 Pro too good for my system? Speaking of that, is the one I am planning on getting (Sapphire 9800 Pro) any good?


thanks
 
i just got the saphire 9800 pro it totally spanks my 9200, and the two full games are aight rtcw and sof dounle helix
 
Nah, everything looks good, no bottlenecks.

On the storage drive: anything that doesn't need super-fast transfers goes on it, including MP3s and such—the idea is that only your apps, Windows, swap file, and really big projects go on the Raptor, and everything else can go on the storage drive.

I remapped My Documents to a folder on my storage drive, for example—but I keep my active PhotoShop and Flash projects and my faster drive, for a small performance boost.
 
I see...So, how would you go about formating one of these storage drives? I am going to get one after i completely build my system, to have less complication. I mean I don't need that storage imediately if you know what i mean. In about a week or so.


Also, is the SATA controller like that ATA contoller in the sense that the secondary is slower then primary? or are they both the same? because if Secondary SATA is slower then Primary SATA, I would just go ahead and get an ATA HDD, because i would have nothing on the IDE channel anyways, except on the SEC IDE.


Also, I heard that if you have a drive on the Primary SATA controller, the Primary IDE won't work. Is this so, or is there some sort of option in the BIOS?


It's looking good so far, I am gonna try to place the order over the weekend (I homeschool, and have a lot of homework:mad: ) But, I guess all I need to decide on now is the ram. I'd also like to know of a few good DVD drives ad CD Burners, so I'll know what to get later.

once again, thanks a lot for you help!

Eli Morgan
 
Just a suggestion but don't go with the dfi infinity, go with something like the nf7-s or similar. I say this because the infinity seems to have a cold boot problem and somtimes it prevents the board from responding at all for no reason. I am already on my second infinity and the problem has just occured again and I am about to get a refund on it. So, save yourself the trouble and go with a different board. Just my 2cents
 
i went with the nf7(nots) because i only use a 40gb ide drive for all my stuff, But definetly go with the nf7-s there both kickass boards with lots of options.
 
Originally posted by eli
I see...So, how would you go about formating one of these storage drives? I am going to get one after i completely build my system, to have less complication. I mean I don't need that storage imediately if you know what i mean. In about a week or so.


Also, is the SATA controller like that ATA contoller in the sense that the secondary is slower then primary? or are they both the same? because if Secondary SATA is slower then Primary SATA, I would just go ahead and get an ATA HDD, because i would have nothing on the IDE channel anyways, except on the SEC IDE.


Also, I heard that if you have a drive on the Primary SATA controller, the Primary IDE won't work. Is this so, or is there some sort of option in the BIOS?


It's looking good so far, I am gonna try to place the order over the weekend (I homeschool, and have a lot of homework:mad: ) But, I guess all I need to decide on now is the ram. I'd also like to know of a few good DVD drives ad CD Burners, so I'll know what to get later.

once again, thanks a lot for you help!

Eli Morgan
Click to expand...
OK, going down the list...

Installing it after you put together the rest of the system makes no difference, procedure-wise. :) You would just leave it alone (well, maybe partition it) during Windows setup, but you would wait until you actually get into Windows to set about formatting it. You format it like any other drive: go to My Computer, right-click on the drive's entry in My Computer, and then pick Format. :)

Secondary channel isn't slower than primary channel because it's the secondary channel—it's slower in most people's computer because while their primary channel just has hard drives (ATA/100 or ATA/133 devices), their secondary probably just has opticals (ATA/33) devices, which slows that channel down. An ATA channel will run at the speed of the slowest device on-channel.

Ssing SATA will not disable any of the main IDE channels. The SATA controller doesn't have anything to do with the main IDE channels. The "main IDE channels" are the two standard IDE channels hanging off of the southbridge; these are the ones that you can connect ATAPI devices (opticals, Zip disks and similar devices, etc.) to as well as ATA devices (hard drives). Add-on SATA and ATA controller cards usually can't handle anything other than hard drives.

CD burners, a lot of people (myself included) like Lite-Ons. DVD burners, I prefer Sony, but a lot of people get Lite-Ons as well.

Good brands for RAM, in no particular order: Apacer, Buffalo, Corsair, Crucial, Kingston, Micron, Mushkin. Corsair and Mushkin tend to be the Good Stuff (even their consumer-line stuff, Value Select and Basic Green respectively, are great). Kingston's pretty much good generic, although their HyperX is also Good Stuff.
 
That sounds perfect Stiletto One, thanks a lot!
Here's my updated system occording to what people thing. Let me know what you think.

1. Antec Sonata Case
2. WD Raptor SATA Drive
3. Sapphire Radeon 9800 PRO
4. ABIT NF7-S Nforce 2 *UPDATED*
5. 1 GIG PC3200 Mushkin level one *UPDATED*
6. Athlon 2500+ W/ retail heatsink (I will upgrade cooling when I need to)
7. Kenwood CDROM 72X (Already have this)
9. Logitech Optical Click mouse, and standard keyboard.
8. Down the road, I will be purchasing a CD Burner and DVD drive, just don't need them quite yet. (Plextor, liteon, and pioneer seem good.
9. Using a shitty 17" CRT for now until the Samsung 152X comes
out.

Ok, so obviously I will get a IDE drive and run it on the PRIMARY IDE channel. I was reading my book "computer hardware in a nutshell" and it said: "in order to surpase the 128GB barrier, your controller needs to use "48 bit addressing". Does my motherboard use this, or does it use the standard 24 bit adressing?

Later,
Eli
 
ok, so i replaced the ram with Corsair XMS PC3200, and the motherboard with the Asus A7N8X DLX. I hear better things about those components. I will be installing Windows 2k on the new system. Will I need to download SATA controller drivers, or is that just with Windows XP?

Thanks,
Eli
 
Ok, dunno why you switched to corsair considering that I hear mushkin is a better brand from most but that is up to you. Also, if you are going to go for the a7n8x dlx you should go for the a7n8x-e deluxe. Also, the sata drivers should come with the board on a floppy.
 
Ehh, about even. Between Corsair and Mushkin, I just buy whichever is cheaper where I'm shopping. :eek:

On motherboard, NF7-S has slightly better layout than the A7N8X Deluxe, but that's up to you. If you don't have any need for DualNet (two NICs, in English, just get the NF7-S.

To use SATA for your boot drive, you'll need the Silicon Image drivers for the SiL3112 controller on a floppy. Otherwise, the Windows installer won't recognize that the Raptor exists, and you won't be able to install to it.
 
ok here's the revised list:

1. Antec Sonata Case (might upgrade the PSU)
2. WD Raptor SATA Drive
3. Sapphire Radeon 9800 PRO
4. ABIT NF7-S Nforce 2 *UPDATED*
5. 1 GIG PC3200 Mushkin level one *UPDATED*
6. Athlon 2500+ W/ retail heatsink (I will upgrade cooling when I need to)
7. Kenwood CDROM 72X (Already have this)
9. Logitech Optical Click mouse, and standard keyboard.
8. Down the road, I will be purchasing a CD Burner and DVD drive, just don't need them quite yet. (Plextor, liteon, and pioneer seem good.
9. Using a shitty 17" CRT for now until the Samsung 152X comes
out.
10. Audigy 2 ZS W/logitech 2.1 Z-2200

I am just trying to get the basics, and then i will add the fancy stuff like speakers, sound cards if desired, and extra drives. The A7N8X DLX doesn't include SATA drivers on a floppy disk. I don't want to have it not work, then have to send back all the stuff including the extra stuff. I would just be wasting money.

Also, would a Western Digital SATA drive on the Secondary SATA channel (Raptor on Primary) be about as fast as a Western Digital IDE drive on the Primary channel? I'd just rather get a SATA drive then an IDE drive due to the size of the cable on SATA. I am planning on gettig something like a WD 200GIG SE. Do you know if my IDE and or SATA channels use 48 bit addressing rather then 24 bit, so I would have a 200GIG drive?

Thanks,
Eli
 
If you wish you can get an IDE drive and use the included IDE to SATA converter that the NF7-S has. Also, there isn't any primary, secondary etc when it comes to sata. All the sata ports give the same performance, and I believe atleast the same performance as an IDE on primary if not better.
 
If you wish you can get an IDE drive and use the included IDE to SATA converter that the NF7-S has. Also, there isn't any primary, secondary etc when it comes to sata. All the sata ports give the same performance, and I believe atleast the same performance as an IDE on primary if not better
Click to expand...

O really, I didn't know that. I'll just get the SATA version then. Now do you know if my SATA controller uses 48 bit addressing so it can support a 200GIG drive?

Thanks,
Eli
 
Hmm...well I am not completely sure but I don't think you will have trouble using a 200gig drive.
 
I'll just stick with a 120GIG drive just in case. I don't really need 200GB yet anyways. About the motherboard. I was going to get the DFI infinity, when I saw good reviews on newegg.com, but a few days later, I saw three 1 star reviews right in a row. Now I am leaning more towards the A7N8X DLX, or the Abit NF7-S.

Thanks,
Eli
 
Yeah, I am probably going to post a bad review as well because of the fact that I am on my second board and already need another so I am gonna get a refund. The infinity has good options etc. but the cold boot issue is a very serious one, hence why I am going to buy a more reliable board like the nf7-s.
 
ok, I'll skip the DFI infinity. NF7-S looks like the best, cheapest option at this point.
 
1. Antec Sonata Case (might upgrade the PSU)
2. WD Raptor SATA Drive, A little while later, I will be getting 120GB western digital for storage, and a smaller HDD for linux.
3. Sapphire Radeon 9800 PRO
4. ABIT NF7-S Nforce 2 *UPDATED*
5. 1 GIG PC3200 Mushkin level one or 1GIG Corsair Value, can't decide *UPDATED*
6. Athlon 2500+ W/ retail heatsink (I will upgrade cooling when I need to)
7. Kenwood CDROM 72X (Already have this)
9. Logitech Optical Click mouse, and standard keyboard.
8. Samsung 16X DVD
9. Using a shitty 17" CRT for now until the Samsung 152X comes
out.
10. Audigy 2 ZS W/logitech 2.1 Z-2200
11. 2x 120mm case fans.

I'm hoping this is all going to be relatively quiet. tell me if I'll have to upgrade the PSU for these components. also, do you think I'll have decent case temps, and a CPU temp under 60C?

I think I also might get a Mitsubishi 19" 930SB instead of the LCD, is this any good?

let me know what you think,
thanks
 
maybe Antec's true power 430 would make a better fit for my components.
 
nah, I am not an extreme overclocker. It just doesn't feel right getting a mobile barton. Thanks for the advice though;)
 
Smart man, getting stuff as appropriate to your usage patterns. :)

All SATA controllers support 48-bit LBA, it's been pretty much standard for a while. On the parallel ATA side, I think ATA/100 (and higher) spec includes 48-bit LBA.

As for drives, get IDE where you can (most current SATA drives are in fact IDE drives with bridge chips on their PCBs), if only to avoid having to transfer across the PCI bus. There are not Socket A boards right now that have on-southbridge SATA controllers. (Well, maybe KT600 does, but nForce2 is still better.) It's not a critical performance point, but it's enough that the only SATA drives I recommend until people fill their main IDE controller (which is a pretty rare occurence) are Raptors.
 
tight. two more questions, then it looks like I'll be able to order:eek:

1. about the ram, either mushkin level 1 or corsair value. I like the price of the value, but if the mushkin is better, ill happily pay extra. and I see that some ram has higher MB/s ratings. how much does this affect the performance?

2. Does the Sapphire 9800 pro retail have better performance then the OEM version? because if it doesn't, I am not paying $20 for Tomb Raider.

oh, I'll also ditched the Sonata for an Antec P160 with a True power 430 Watt. It has better cooling, it's aluminum, and its big. it also has a removable motherboard tray.

Looks like thats its, thank you so much for you help. It's great having people that know a lot about computers. It makes me feel "secure".
 
Originally posted by eli
tight. two more questions, then it looks like I'll be able to order:eek:

1. about the ram, either mushkin level 1 or corsair value. I like the price of the value, but if the mushkin is better, ill happily pay extra. and I see that some ram has higher MB/s ratings. how much does this affect the performance?

2. Does the Sapphire 9800 pro retail have better performance then the OEM version? because if it doesn't, I am not paying $20 for Tomb Raider.
Click to expand...
1.) If you ever want to overclock, having a higher PCxxxx rating is a good thing. Or, if you're not overclocking, it lets you use tighter latency timings. (Ex. CAS2 instead of CAS2.5, stuff like that.)

2.) No.
 
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-480&depa=0

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-440&depa=0

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-146-290&depa=0

Which one looks the best? I could either get one good of decent memory, or 512 of really good memory.....like this

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-146-287&depa=0

Which do you think would be faster? I can afford the $218 of the mushkin level 1 pc3200 1GIG, but thats pushing it.

That's good to know about the video card. Looks like its just the ram to decide on now.

thanks,
Eli
 
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